Cloud Senses Proc question

How does the dmg proc from Cloud Senses work when slotted into the Lich or Dark Servant? Will it proc on any power with -tohit or is it only the -tohit powers that have an acc check? The reason I ask is because I notice that is can be slotted into Darkest Night which is autohit.

Will it proc in DN (bug maybe) and the dmg aura that the servant has (chill of the night)??

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Level 50s: to many to remember at this point

When Test comes back, I'll find out for you if no one has answered.

I think it's going to work. Hold set procs in him only go off when he uses his hold power, and immobilize set procs in him only go off when he uses his immobilize power, but I don't think there's really such a thing as an "accurate" power in the sense we think of. I suspect the engine. I think it'll just see it as a toHitDebuff power that Servant's broad slotting rules will allow you to get into a power that doesn't have a hit check.

But I'm not certain without testing. I've been curious of the answer for a while.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

It's kinda strange because other autohit to-hit debuffs don't take the accurate sets. Rad Infection, Hurricane, smoke, and earthquake don't, but Flash arrow does???

I wonder if the devs did this on purpose or it's just an oversight? Maybe they do this because it will give those powers more balanced IO options.

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Level 50s: to many to remember at this point

Well Flash Arrow is only auto-hit in PvE, in PvP it requres a hit check. But then the to hit debuff in Smoke Grenade isn't auto-hit anywhere and it can't take Accurate To Hit Debuff. so yeah, I'm not sure what logic the devs used when assigning these sets either.

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Are you sure about Smoke grenade? Mids shows it as being auto-hit in PvE like smoke and flash arrow. I've never noticed it to miss.

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Level 50s: to many to remember at this point

It looks like the distinction is that, while the toHitDebuffs are autohit, the powers themselves are not, and so benefit from accuracy overall. Powers like Rad Infection and Earthquake don't perform a hit roll for any component of their effects, and so would benefit not at all from accuracy.

I got on test, but to craft the proc I need to finagle the right salvage or some AE tickets over. I don't have time to fool with that now, so I'll probably test it this evening.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

I just checked CoD and you are absolutely right. the -tohit isn't autohit O.o???

Now why would a set that has a acc check not accept the accurate set??

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Level 50s: to many to remember at this point

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OK, I finally stopped poking the Winter event and tested this.

It definitely works in Chill of the Night. I plopped my Dark Servant in the middle of 3 level 50 Dragoons and he slowly killed them all with it. I watched it proc multiple times when my servant was between attacks. I also saw it proc in both Tenebrous Tentacles and Twilight Grasp (lol). In fact, the last poor *** died while held, killed by a proc off of Twilight Grasp.

Edit: Woah. It censors the word s-o-t?

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

It dawns on me that it might be useful to post my understanding of enhancement rules here, because it's relevant to some of the questions in the thread.

I might not have this exactly right, but I think it's fairly close.

My understanding is that there are three categories of rules that affect what you can slot in a power, and what it does when you slot it. The categories are...

1. What of effects a power has on targets
2. What types of non-set enhancers the power accepts
3. What sort of Invention sets a power accepts

Category (2) is usually all the stuff in category (1) plus endurance, recharge and accuracy, where applicable. Some powers have primary effects we can't enhance (Defense debuffs in many Earth Control powers) and some powers lack some or all of accuracy, endurance or recharge (such as passives).

These three rule categories for power slotting are clearly related, but separate. This means they can interact in interesting ways. For example, under category (1), technically slow enhancements could affect Hasten because they boost recharge effects - they're slows when the base effect applies negative recharge bonuses. Now, even if we could do this, we know it wouldn't do anything to Hasten because Hasten is flagged to ignore buffs and enhancements. However, that never comes up because slow enhancements are not on the list of things you can slot in Hasten, under category (2). Finally, you can't slot any set IOs in Hasten because its category (3), is empty.

Multi-function, non-set enhancements seem to satisfy all applicable category (2) limits at once. For example, a Membrane HO is a recharge enhancer, a toHit enhancer and a defense enhancer, all at the same time. Widow/Mind Link doesn't accept recharge enhancements under category (2), but you can slot Membranes in it because it accepts Defense enhancers and Membranes count. While it's there, the Membrane's recharge enhancement will enhance Mind Link's recharge.

Rule category (3) appears to trump category (2). Widow/Mind Link doesn't accept recharge enhancements under category (2), but Mind Link accepts Defense sets, and Defense sets contain recharge enhancers. This isn't the same as the multi-function behavior explained above. Even if there was a pure recharge enhancer in a Defense set, Mind Link would accept it, because it accepts Defense sets, no matter what the individual enhancements boost.

Pet powers can become really confusing with set enhancers. Dark Servant is a good example of this. If you slot a set in Dark Servant, it will only enhance the category (2) attributes of powers he uses if the set type matches one of the category (1) features of the power. For example, Cloud Senses contains accuracy enhancements. However, this accuracy enhancement will only apply to toHit-affecting powers Dark Servant uses. It would not enhance the accuracy of his Petrifying Gaze, because that power has no toHit component. Similarly, if you slot Touch of the Nictus accuracy enhancements in him (which he accepts), they would only buff the accuracy of his Twilight Grasp, and not of his tentacles or gaze.

This extends to procs. If you slot a Touch of the Nictus proc in Dark Servant, it will only go off when he uses his heal, a Trap of the Hunter proc would only go off when he uses his tentacles, etc.

This is why I suspected that the Cloud Senses proc would work in everything except his hold. Procs seem to trigger based off of what category (1) attributes the set enhances. If the set enhances holds, the proc can go off when a power with a hold effect affects the target. If it enhances damage, the proc can go off when a damaging power affects the target*. Cloud Senses enhances toHit, so I figured any toHit debuff would have a chance of triggering the proc. The "accurate" restriction is controlled by rule category (3), and doesn't actually have anything to do with whether the power has enhanceable accuracy. Thus the proc can go off in Chill of the Night, even though that power can't be slotted for accuracy.

* Procs don't seem to care if the effect they trigger off of itself has a random chance of happening. For example, Telekinetic Blast has a chance of KB, but if you but an Explosive Strike proc in TK Blast it can go off whether or not the power's KB chance kicks in.

As far as I know, the above isn't documented anywhere in game. It is also immensely unintuitive. I learned much of it here on the forums; my only significant personal research on it has been related to procs. Hopefully if any of my description above is incorrect, someone will notice and be able to correct it.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

That's great to know. thanks for all the help Uber.

Guess now i'll have to find a 3rd one to put in Darkest night.

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Level 50s: to many to remember at this point