New Build for Bill Z

Something was "amiss" to me and so I asked.

Another point: I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the exclusion of a power called shockwave is a big mistake. I have a Claws/SR and with all info on an old dead pooter I am having all the fun of getting into it again (build 2) working out an ideal attack chain for myself within cost limits. I really think that when it comes to ST chain on a target such as an AV, Shockwave is better than Eviscerate providing your conserve recharges in time, you have the endurance to use it and your endurance, despite fight duration end drain, reaches maximum again just so you can claim energizer bunny status.

Well crap.

Doesn't that dictate that I should be using the stated equations (with the corrected 10 second downtime for CFBU) for each proc separately instead of lumping them together?

As it was, I was doing duration/chaintime*total number of procs in chain

It sounds like that was giving out incorrect data due to this enforced downtime.

Actually... it sounds like that enforced downtime needs to be removed. But for accuracy's sake now, it seems that you're telling me I have to do the following for each power:

base
enh*base
fu*base
cfbu1*base
cfbu2*base
global*base

crit chance*sum of above

Total of all above

Calculate DPS

Add on calculated extra damage from cfdrd using 1 equation per cfdrd

EDIT: Verification on CFDRD: Are you stating that there is NO enforced downtime on the CFDRD thus allowing multiple chances to fire within the duration's period, but no selfstacking occurs, only duration extends?

First things first, the problem with your equation was that it was calculating diminishing returns across the duration of the power, not the duration of the enforced downtime. You should calculate the average chance of occurrence for each 10 second period and then reduce that value to the actual uptime percent for each 10 second period (5.25 seconds out of every 10 seconds). Repeat this process for each BU proc, just as is done with the -res procs.

For the resistance debuff proc, it should be calculated exactly as you are assuming. The contribution should be calculated for each proc individually because they stack exactly.

I'm not following.

There's a 5% chance for the proc to fire off.
If it fires off, there's a 0% chance that it will fire off again for the next 10 seconds.

I'd love to leave it at that and say fine, on average it will fire once every 200 seconds just as we would state if the proc was in a toggle.

Actually... why can't we state that? Under no circumstances will you ever have a greater than 5% chance to fire every 10 seconds. The only time it would matter would be if you had MORE than 10 seconds between chances to fire.

The most the proc will ever assist you on average appears to be 2.625% of base damage.

A 100% buff to base damage occurring only once every 200 seconds lasting 5.25 seconds only adds base*.02625 damage.

And that's for scrappers. I'm pretty sure that Castle told me the BU procs also follow the AT modifiers. Meaning that a CFBU on a brute only helps by 2.1% of base.

If that was true, they'd be worthless. EDIT: Nope, still not worthless. Worth the same as 20% chance of 71.8 damage procs.

And yet I get 205 DPS by calculating my DPS using the equations I had laid out, ignoring the 5% chance to miss, and then get 203 timing myself on a pylon.

Something is not what it seems here. But I'm recalculating based in the information so far to see what I get.

EDIT: recalcs done.
Fu, Slash, Focus, Eviscerate with a 5% chance to miss: 198 DPS
Fu, Eviscerate, Focus with a 5% chance to miss: 211 DPS
Fu, Slash, Focus with a 5% chance to miss: 216 DPS

Dumping the CFBUs in Fu and Focus and replacing them with the straight damage purple IO I'm lacking in each for the first chain: 196 DPS
Replacing those with Mako's chance for lethal and javelin chance for toxic: 198 DPS

Bill, as I just sent you in a PM, you're getting more of a buff from the chance of build up, and more of a debuff from the Achilles' Heel and the Gladiator procs than you're computing.

CFBU: .05 * chances in 5.25 seconds
CFDRD: 1 + (1-.8^(chances in 10.3 sec))*.2 + (1-.8^(chances in 10.3 sec))*.2

However, I wasn't aware that the build up proc triggered a 10 second downtime, so that will make things more complicated. All the builds I've used it on had it in a toggle, so they'd be unaffected. Anyway, perhaps those differences would account for your extra 8 DPS. Or it could just be luck.

In regards to the Follow Up -> Eviscerate -> Focus, chain, Umbral is correct that it was only the highest because of a mistake that I made. The current spreadsheet has it slightly lower than Follow Up -> Focus -> Slash -> Pause. However, it's only lower by 1 DPS, and the higher DPS chain is on a build with +300% recharge in Follow Up. The Eviscerate chain gets by with only +274% recharge, so that's what I'd personally be aiming for if I had an extreme recharge build.

Bill, you're miscalculating 10 second suppression thing. Let's say you have the ultimate buzzsaw, an million attacks all taking a millionth of a second, all with the proc. You would have as close to 100% chance of triggering the proc immediately as makes no difference. So you'd immediately get the 100% buff for 5.25 seconds, then you'd be suppressed for another 4.75 seconds. In other words, you'd get an average buff of 52.5%. THAT'S your limit, not 2.625%.

That's not the same thing as giving you the actual calculation, but it looks like Umbral gave the outline of it. I'm personally going to go play now. I have an accolade to grab on Alexei, maybe a respec. Maybe math later, or tomorrow.

Noted. Will update the master spreadsheet shortly. Many thanks to you both.

And here's the build I just respeced into. Could Not handle eviscerate.

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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

I think someone mentioned this before, but if you need a bit more recharge you can use crushing impacts instead of mako's bite. Crushing impact would net you a 7% accuracy bonus and 5% recharge but you would lose 5 HP and the 3% dmg buff (I assume that's why you have mako's bite in there?)

For shockwave, you may want to replace the posi proc with the force feedback proc. Less DPS but it gives you a healthy recharge bonus. Then again, being a SR scrapper with no heal you don't really need anymore recharge than what is necessary for your attack chain.

(Don't take any of my suggestions too seriously if another player contradicts them as I don't have a huge amount of experience with SR)

Quick question: Are you going straight DPS on this build or all-around playability?

There was no aiming for that actually. All those LotGs are in the build specifically because Red Fortunes don't add any HP or regen. Same goes for the Serendipities.

The 5th slot in stamina is mostly a throwaway for that tiny bit of extra damage while the set itself was again chosen for HP.

So you can see, all that extra accuracy was a side effect and not something I specifically cared about.

EDIT: Does raise a good point though. I'll look through the attacks and see if there's anywhere I can increase damage/recharge while dumping accuracy. But that's for tomorrow. Bed time.

What I'm seeing doesn't appear to be an animation related pause. Rather, followup is actually giving me the Not Ready sound when strike finishes its animation.

I've gotten the not ready sound intermittently on a chain that should be tight. Not sure what's going on, particularly since it's intermittent. You'd think if it was insufficient recharge, I'd always have insufficient recharge. I don't think it's recharge debuffs, and certainly isn't in the case of pylons. I guess I'll fall back on the fact that we don't know precisely when recharge starts and by when it must be completed. Most signs point to our current understanding (must recharge in the Arcanatime of the other attacks) being correct, but there are occasional signs that it isn't correct, such as the not ready sound when it shouldn't be there, or stacking that isn't as good as it should be. Maybe our understanding is very close, but not exactly right. Wouldn't surprise me at all. So as a general rule, I try to have more recharge than I think I need. Good idea for recharge debuffs anyway. But the build I'm currently working on will only have 0.02 seconds more recharge than I think I need on one of the powers. I'll be curious if I get an intermittent not ready sound.