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By
FloatingFatMan,
Posted on: 2009-10-22 20:35 in Roleplaying
i have this problem with many of my Villi concepts , i do not like the shades grey villian , the misunderstood , the "im not really bad types ". My villis are just that criminal and nasty as a minimum .
As to how to avoid P'ing off the other RPers , i try to find a outer layer that allows them to interact with others ..for example my Thugs/poison MM , his a drug taking , gun loving , leg breaking , full on gangster, who makes GTA types look tree hugging peaceniks . However ..he is RPed as a Thug for hire , so he has personal marketing skills that allow him to talk to clients and obtain jobs ...and he knows the value of respect .
I find the trick is marrying a acceptable public face with the bad inside works , but its not always possible , My widow toon is unrelentingly bad ..so only gets to RP with a select few that that persona works with ..It comes down to how far you can adapt your concept .. one rule i try to use is to work out how they lived so long being so disliked , and what route they took growing up to mitigate the hate ...unless you RP your toon is already a lvl50 brute from day 1. 
Saying all that often toons which i see as fine, sometimes just done work , getting off on the wrong foot with other characters can make the toon totally disliked even with out having a mass of horrid traits ..
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You might find vile & insane as fun, but it's a personality type that rarely has any "hooks" that will interest people in interacting with you. Many people seem to confuse being a villain with being vile and insane, but if you look at the comic book world, just how many actually ARE that way? Sure, there are some, but most of them don't even get along with other villains, so you shouldn't really expect such a character to have much RPability with other people.|
Originally Posted by Pale_Enchatress
Vile and insane is fun. I love doing it. But I keep cranking it up until it boils over.
Does anyone else have similar problems that leave them on the outside looking in? How do you temper it? |
I will, as a general rule, just blank any characters like that. If I didn't, my chars would be spending all their time throwing such lunatics in the nut house, instead of doing what *I* want to actually do, which is relax and have some fun.
TBH, I don't have that many villains, but of the 2 I *do* RP; one is an information broker, and will sell to the highest bidder, and sometimes she'll double deal as well. The other is tech user who builds robots from off-the-shelf parts (hence why they look like all the others), and just uses them to rob banks and stuff like that. She has little interest in actual mayhem; just in doing what needs to be done to grab the loot. A plain and simple thief, really.
Neither of them kill, maim and destroy out of fun or anything sicko like that. Those kind of characters are just too 1 dimensional and, to me, boring as hell.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
You might find vile & insane as fun, but it's a personality type that rarely has any "hooks" that will interest people in interacting with you. Many people seem to confuse being a villain with being vile and insane, but if you look at the comic book world, just how many actually ARE that way? Sure, there are some, but most of them don't even get along with other villains, so you shouldn't really expect such a character to have much RPability with other people.
I will, as a general rule, just blank any characters like that. If I didn't, my chars would be spending all their time throwing such lunatics in the nut house, instead of doing what *I* want to actually do, which is relax and have some fun. TBH, I don't have that many villains, but of the 2 I *do* RP; one is an information broker, and will sell to the highest bidder, and sometimes she'll double deal as well. The other is tech user who builds robots from off-the-shelf parts (hence why they look like all the others), and just uses them to rob banks and stuff like that. She has little interest in actual mayhem; just in doing what needs to be done to grab the loot. A plain and simple thief, really. Neither of them kill, maim and destroy out of fun or anything sicko like that. Those kind of characters are just too 1 dimensional and, to me, boring as hell. |
And, as always in RP, YMMV.
Some people hate it. Some people love it.
The MOST important difference is this;
OOC =/= IC
So long as you are an easy person to deal with OOC, so that agreements and such can be had, IC will run fine. Sure, the characters might hate each other, but both the palyers will be enjoying the RP.
And yeah, coupling a dark side with a personable face tends to be the best bet.
I have one actual Archvillain (as in pure evil, most of my redside's would count as just Villains)
He's completely evil. He's the one character I allow to be completely so, manic laughter and all.
As for other examples;
Ceasar the Troll. He's a troll. He runs his own crime circle. He will do anything to get to the top and beat the daylights out of those there or who get in his way. He's still a good people person, because dat's jus' good business, eh?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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This is a very interesting issue.
I tend not to RP my villains (except the ones that are stand-in characters for my heroes when they need to act in the Rogue Isles) very much at all.
Taking a prime case-in-point - my "main" villain, Psychonova is, and has always been intended to be, a not-very-nice person. I know of at least one player whom I respect and get on with very well who point blank refuses to have anything to do with him. I don't blame the player for that - in fact I think it speaks well of him as a person - because Psychonova is a sick and twisted individual. He's cruel for the sake of it, considers normal people to be his playthings, and acts in ways that I, personally, find repellant and disgusting.
I also find it somewhat disturbing that my imagination managed to create someone like that.
I play him as a plot-device character, as a foil to my main hero, and I have taken great pains to make him loathsome... once you know about his motivations and capacity for cruelty. Until that point, he's just a person: chatty, relatively friendly (albeit with a somewhat sneering attitude), and not too bad. But he will always let his true colours show, sooner or later, and I have yet to meet one single player who wants to associate with him, on any level, once they learn the truth. And that was intentional. He's meant to be the villain everyone loves to hate. He was designed expressly to be unlikeable. And that is exactly what I want him to be, because I like to think I'm a nice guy, and I don't like him, either.
If the terms "psychotic", "sadistic" and "no redeeming qualities" can be used to describe a particular villain, then I believe they should only be RPd if the player expects everyone to revile them. Otherwise, a player needs to go out of their way to enforce a contradictory pleasant mannerism or aspect to their villain, to allow RP to be more than "And Captain Crass annoys everyone, and they all hate him".
Make a friendly, personable, jovial villain who is casually cruel. Make a madman who says silly things and giggles when people laugh. Make someone with overblown megalomania, but who never has any good luck. Villains to be RPd as anything other than a target for other players have to be interesting and entertaining, otherwise it just doesn't work.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Some good advice here. One of my friends let me know that I shouldn't judge my character by the reaction of the Pocket D 'In crowd'.
I totally can't play a good guy. It just feels wrong and is no fun. However It was a great suggestion to look at how comic villains act in social settings.
I have a great idea for a character. Anyone ever watch Trueblood? Marryanne was a beautiful, caring, classy woman. She was also an insane antideluvian abomination. I may post something soon on how to capture the way she seemed to those that just met her.
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Its PFTG.|
Originally Posted by Shadowe
This is a very interesting issue.
I tend not to RP my villains (except the ones that are stand-in characters for my heroes when they need to act in the Rogue Isles) very much at all. Taking a prime case-in-point - my "main" villain, Psychonova is, and has always been intended to be, a not-very-nice person. I know of at least one player whom I respect and get on with very well who point blank refuses to have anything to do with him. I don't blame the player for that - in fact I think it speaks well of him as a person - because Psychonova is a sick and twisted individual. He's cruel for the sake of it, considers normal people to be his playthings, and acts in ways that I, personally, find repellant and disgusting. I also find it somewhat disturbing that my imagination managed to create someone like that. I play him as a plot-device character, as a foil to my main hero, and I have taken great pains to make him loathsome... once you know about his motivations and capacity for cruelty. Until that point, he's just a person: chatty, relatively friendly (albeit with a somewhat sneering attitude), and not too bad. But he will always let his true colours show, sooner or later, and I have yet to meet one single player who wants to associate with him, on any level, once they learn the truth. And that was intentional. He's meant to be the villain everyone loves to hate. He was designed expressly to be unlikeable. And that is exactly what I want him to be, because I like to think I'm a nice guy, and I don't like him, either. If the terms "psychotic", "sadistic" and "no redeeming qualities" can be used to describe a particular villain, then I believe they should only be RPd if the player expects everyone to revile them. Otherwise, a player needs to go out of their way to enforce a contradictory pleasant mannerism or aspect to their villain, to allow RP to be more than "And Captain Crass annoys everyone, and they all hate him". Make a friendly, personable, jovial villain who is casually cruel. Make a madman who says silly things and giggles when people laugh. Make someone with overblown megalomania, but who never has any good luck. Villains to be RPd as anything other than a target for other players have to be interesting and entertaining, otherwise it just doesn't work. |
Pretendy Fun Time Games.
Slightly strange, but there are some of my characters as well that I play, type for, and think; How the hell am I coming up with this??
One of my SoA's, now deleted due to need for the slots and Rp-fadeout, was the stereotypical bad cop. He stole everything that wasn't nailed down, and even then he stole the nails if it was.
In real life, Im about as far as you can get from that. In game? It just...clicked. Lines came out of nowhere, mannerisms flowed naturally.
Characters do have lives of their own. Things evolve in ways you cant even dream of. Thats what makes for the best RP. Its a good thing.
(This is partly why I do still wish that PvP will one day be fixed. For the sake of Heroes vs Villains things that can be RPd somewhere other than a forum fight which, as always, doesnt work so well when their are multiple people involved. Egos and expectations get in the way, on all sides.)
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Oh, goodness me, YES!|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Its PFTG.
Pretendy Fun Time Games. |
I don't mean for one minute that RPing should be anything but fun, but I am abundantly aware of how a premise that sounds like it would be fun on the surface, once you actually dig into RP the character, turns out to be a one-way ticket to Lonelyville, County Lonesome.
Unfortunately there's really no advice to give other than very general advice, since everyone is different, has different tastes, and wants different things. The stickied hints and tips thread has some extremely good advice in it, but the two things I always try to include in any new character are 1) A mystery, and 2) a weakness.
To expand on those a little, and clarify them:
1) A mystery gives you something to hook other characters with. I certainly don't mean "make your character dark and mysterious", because that has been overdone to death, IMO. But make a part of their history a secret, have them start saying something and then stopping mid-sentence, because they realise they'll "give it away". It doesn't even matter if you, the player, have no clue what the mystery is, to start with. You can always wait until inspiration strikes you. But having something that the character is concealing from other characters - for whatever reason - tends to engage RPers quite well.
2) A weakness is not the same as a vulnerability, which I would define as "something that can harm the character". A weakness might be a predilection for some particular behaviour, or an addiction, or a piece of hurtful information that someone might find out. The possibilities are endless. A weakness adds depth to a character and gives another hook that other characters can latch onto when interacting.
Those, of course, are just my personal options for how to deal with potentially unlikeable characters, and I've not really had a problem.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
When I look back at the actual character and event that made me want to post that I nowe consider it a success. At the time it was frustrating to see my (OOC) friends turning against him, but it was a conflict type that really made him seem like a malign threat and not an annoying nuisance.
We were playing blue side, and ended up doing the story about getting the PCM from Arachnos in Faultline. I do not do the "RP Battle" thing, ever. So the actual climax was my friends trying to destroy it before my character could exploit it.
I've had good luck with my current character so far when it comes to keeping a friendly face. Now I just have to make sure he dosn't get so friendly he is goofy.
Thanks again everyone.
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Originally Posted by Shadowe
1) A mystery gives you something to hook other characters with. I certainly don't mean "make your character dark and mysterious", because that has been overdone to death, IMO. But make a part of their history a secret, have them start saying something and then stopping mid-sentence, because they realise they'll "give it away". It doesn't even matter if you, the player, have no clue what the mystery is, to start with. You can always wait until inspiration strikes you. But having something that the character is concealing from other characters - for whatever reason - tends to engage RPers quite well. 2) A weakness is not the same as a vulnerability, which I would define as "something that can harm the character". A weakness might be a predilection for some particular behaviour, or an addiction, or a piece of hurtful information that someone might find out. The possibilities are endless. A weakness adds depth to a character and gives another hook that other characters can latch onto when interacting. Those, of course, are just my personal options for how to deal with potentially unlikeable characters, and I've not really had a problem. |
1) This is where my biggest issue springs from. I just get too excited and do too much to fast. What you said should be helpful.
2) I always say a hero is defined by their strengths a villain is defined by their weaknesses. Along those likes a hero's greatest weakness is their biggest strength, a villain's strength is also their greatest weakness.
Batman's humanity and moral code are former examples. They limit him but they are the very thing that makes him strong.
Poison Ivy is so beautiful she can drive someone crazy with a look. (sort of) She is also vainglorious and has been defeated because of it.
So thank you again.
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Never really been a problem for me, generally I have a pretty clear idea before I start what my character's background and history is and try to stick pretty close to it. At least in posting to RP threads here.|
Originally Posted by Pale_Enchatress
So I have a nice character concept and I think I have a behavior pattern decided but when it comes to playing.....BOOM! I go so over the top that the very people I wanted to associate with end up hating my character.
I mean the character hates mine. The RP itself is very fun, but In the end I am the one with a character who is loathed as vile and insane. Vile and insane is fun. I love doing it. But I keep cranking it up until it boils over. Does anyone else have similar problems that leave them on the outside looking in? How do you temper it? |
On the other hand, in table-top game sessions, I have had a few completely over the top characters and I have found that I had to tone them down a few pegs because, even though they were very funny and everybody laughed, they tended to dominate the game session and that's bady for other players that need a chance to shine.
I try to stay away from it myself.
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
So I have a nice character concept and I think I have a behavior pattern decided but when it comes to playing.....BOOM! I go so over the top that the very people I wanted to associate with end up hating my character.
I mean the character hates mine. The RP itself is very fun, but In the end I am the one with a character who is loathed as vile and insane.
Vile and insane is fun. I love doing it. But I keep cranking it up until it boils over.
Does anyone else have similar problems that leave them on the outside looking in? How do you temper it?