Bots/FF - Love it for Concept - Feeling Clunky

Hello.

Am I just at a rough patch at 24, or what?

My favorite concept ever is bots/ff/mu with teleporting. I love the thought of it, but man its not working out in practice, or at least, its boring. I stopped playing my 25 Thugs/Dark to play my concept-love here, but it's like a girl on a dating site that isn't matching up to the bio and picture.

I realize I don't even have the assault bot or upgrade yet, so its early to judge, but does it get better 32+? My Thugs/Dark doesn't have bruiser yet either, and he feels so much more effective in game. My Bots/FF just doesn't give me that sense of asskickery I expect from a MM.

I feel like my bot pets kill slow, and that between protectors and FF I have ok defense, but not enough to compensate for the bad dps, particularly the incredible lack of meaningful AoE. I know the bot has flamethrower and missles, so that obviously picks up. I am surprised that my FF-ness is just kind of meh, and I miss the aoe heal and debuff of Dark.

I do ok in teams, but I am really feeling like I would feel more "powerful" if I worked on my 25 thugs/dark or started a thugs/pain.

I am willing to work with this char a little, because I do love the concept, but it just feels kinda meh, and I am looking for those that have seen it through to let me know if it really delivers at 32 like it looks like on paper, because if it doesn't start to pick up I may just go back to the Thugs/Dark or try a Thugs/Pain.

Any thoughts?

My powers so far are below.

Level 1: Battle Drones -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Force Bolt -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Deflection Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Insulation Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Equip Robot -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Teleport Foe -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Aid Other -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Teleport -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Personal Force Field -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Repair -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Dispersion Bubble -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Health -- Empty(A)

I've got a 43 bots/FF MM and it can tear just about anything up solo.

I don't have either of the Deflection or Insulation powers (I find constantly having to rebubble tedious and annoying), and I have the personal attack powers so I can blast away with my bots. I picked up Swift/Health/ Stamina to support my Leadership toggles (All three!), and also have Aid Other and Aid Self to use when I need it (I skipped Repair). I rely on the big AoE bubble, the Leadership pools, and thr Protector bots for protection, and I'm almost with in spitting distance of the soft cap for defense, even with only using common IOs. The only Patron Power I have is the armor from Black Scorpion. Odds are I won't take others.

Getting the Assault Bot will make a difference in firepower. Plus I find it fun to summon and have that huge sucker slam down.

I don't have the exact build written down anywhere, but I hope this helps.

bots & bubs is very powerful. stick with it, it only gets better. my first 50 on the villain side is my bots & bubs. here's the build. and when i say "it gets better"....it gets insane. i've solo'd 2 Arch's at the same time. this build is 180 days (or so) old, so it may be somewhat out of date, but even so, it works. i just recently came back....so i am doublechecking the setup, but the powers will never change. i like the powers just the way they are

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

zyzzyx: Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
------------
Level 1: Battle Drones BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg(3), BriL'shp-Dmg(3), BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg(5), CmdPres-Dmg/EndRdx(5), CmdPres-Acc/Dmg(7)
Level 1: Force Bolt Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(7), FrcFbk-Dmg/KB(9), FrcFbk-Rechg%(9), FrcFbk-Acc/KB(43), FrcFbk-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(45)
Level 2: Deflection Shield LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(11), GftotA-Def(13), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(13), S'dpty-Def(15)
Level 4: Insulation Shield LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(15), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(17), GftotA-Def(17), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(19), S'dpty-Def(19)
Level 6: Equip Robot EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Aid Other Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(21), Numna-Heal(21), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(23)
Level 10: Hover Srng-Fly(A), Frbd-EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Def(42)
Level 12: Protector Bots BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg(A), BriL'shp-Dmg(25), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(25), BldM'dt-Dmg(27), SvgnRt-Acc(27), SvgnRt-PetResDam(29)
Level 14: Fly Frbd-Fly(A), Frbd-EndRdx(29)
Level 16: Swift Flight-I(A)
Level 18: Health Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(31), Numna-Heal(31), Numna-Heal/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Stamina Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(33), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(33), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(33)
Level 22: Dispersion Bubble LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(34), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(34), GftotA-Def(34), Ksmt-Def/EndRdx(36), Ksmt-Def/Rchg(36)
Level 24: Maneuvers LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(37), GftotA-Def(37), Ksmt-Def/EndRdx(37), Ksmt-ToHit+(39)
Level 26: Assault Bot BldM'dt-Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(39), CmdPres-Acc/Dmg(39), CmdPres-Dmg/EndRdx(40), BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg(40), BriL'shp-Dmg(40)
Level 28: Personal Force Field LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48), Krma-ResKB(48)
Level 30: Assault EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Tactics GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(43), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(43)
Level 38: Aid Self Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Mrcl-Heal(45), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Charged Armor ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(46), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(46), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(48)
Level 44: Force Bubble EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Photon Grenade Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Repair EnManip-EndMod(A), EnManip-EndMod/Rchg(50), EnManip-Stun%(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy

I'm going to echo most of what these guys have said. My first MM was bots/bubble. At level 44, I walked away from my computer during a solo fight with a downgraded AV. The fight was over when I came back and I hadn't lost.

Bots/FF is incredibly tough to kill, and you don't really need stamina until you're rocking all three leadership toggles and dispersion bubble.

Level 24 is pretty tough. The whole 18-25 levels suck pretty bad. No Assbot, only one Protector for most of it so he's not shielded, and scrapyarders. Bloody scrapyarders. I routinely go back as a high level just to kill scrapyarders for fun.

Once you get to 26, things get a lot better. You will only have the AoE of the Assbot's flamethrower, but it's still something... Once you hit 32, life becomes easy street. Not only do you have MASSIVE AoE damage, but your prot bots get -tohit seekers which compounds on your defenses. Use force bolt and force bubble to position enemies for maximum burn patch damage. You will love this build. No doubts, you're going to love it.

The progression for robots is not a straight linear chart. Level 18-25 are indeed the dark days. There's a lot of pew-pew-pew. With FF you'll have no problem surviving your missions at 25, you just won't have any way to increase your pet damage like Dark does. With Assbot and upgrade, your progression goes through the roof.

Never judge a MM by how things are at lvl 25, unless you're building a Silver Mantis runner.

Thanks for all the great replies.

Since levelling is so fast these days, I am sticking it out for a while.

I dinged 26 last night, so my Thugs/Dark and Bot/FF are the same level now, and I can compare them with the Assault Bot vs. The Bruiser as well.

Preliminary results put the two closer than I thought, perception counts for a lot... it's nice to be able to do the *exact to the letter* same mish on both and compare. They are both the same level, which is why I posted, the bots seemed slower, but even at 25 I compared them without the bigboy pets, and the bots were doing closer than I thought.

The reason I posted really is that they are the same level, and I want to pick one to go forward with. I am reinvigorated and looking forward to 32 on the Bot.

Also, I like Padre's build, I may give a little on concept and go for hover/fly as I am not using recall friend much, and hover would give me some status protection.

One question, how much does a build like that cost with 40ish IO's?

I use to have a thug/ff MM but deleted him at 49 because I was changing his concept to thug/poison. I have to say that ff is rather slow at first and really does a nice job in the mid 30's. When you get your patrons, things will be much better.

I just made a concept bot/trap MM named Hobby Master. Think Arcadia or the Toymaker from Marvel/DC. He is lots of fun and I find myself really getting involved with RP on the toon. I can post you a concept build if I have time. Now with the def% IO to pets, coupled with grant invis and your bubbles, they will be very hard to take down.