OK, spent some time weighing the options and I think it comes down to something like the following build (see end of post), created from a merge of DSorrow's original build tweaked to my design goals.
While I am giving up 2 attacks as well as ResElements, and swapping Flight for Jumping, I am gaining Hasten, and a 3rd AoE attack that can punch-voke over distance. Getting Melt Armor aint bad either - especially since it ALSO provides a fourth AoE Taunt at Range.
Furthermore, more good news is that I was able to take the original concept's numbers:
Original Totals:
Quote:
and push them to:|
46% Defense(Smashing/Lethal) 39.8% Defense(Fire/Cold) 43.5% Defense(Energy/Neg) 13.3% Defense(Psionic) 21.2% Defense(Melee) 24.6% Defense(Ranged) 18% Defense(AoE) 88.7% Resistance(Smashing/Lethal) 34.7% Resistance(Fire/Cold) 30.9% Resistance(Energy/Neg) 30.9% Resistance(Toxic) 52.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime) 24% Enhancement(Accuracy) |
Tweaked Set Bonus Totals:
Quote:
|
44% Defense(Smashing/Lethal) 45.2% Defense(Fire/Cold) 43.6% Defense(Energy/Neg) 14.8% Defense(Psionic) 20.7% Defense(Melee) 26% Defense(Ranged) 23.8% Defense(AoE) 90% Resistance(Smashing/Lethal) 16.9% Resistance(Fire/Cold) 32.9/31.1% Resistance(Energy/Neg) 15.7% Resistance(Toxic) 112.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime) 9% Enhancement(Accuracy) |
However, moderate gains were made in Fire and Cold Defense, making it much more likely to have those softcapped, and even Energy/Neg saw moderate improvements.
Of interest to me is the recharge of Fire Sword Circle, down from almost 9 seconds to 7, BuildUp down from 43 to 33, and Dull Pain from 144 seconds to 116.
I am pretty well committed to the Pyre set items I have taken, for me the only thing I wonder is this: Should I drop Hasten to pickup Resist Elements? While I would have to use the slower of the comparisons in the last paragraph, I would gain the following:
+3.2% Defense(Energy/Neg)
+1.6% Defense(AoE)
+15.4% Resistance(Fire/Cold)
+15.7% Resistance(Toxic)
So please, I need to hear from all of you: Should I use the build below as is, or should I remove Hasten and put in Resist Elements?
Thanks.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-EndRdx(46)
Level 1: Scorch KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 2: Dull Pain Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal(7), Dct'dW-Rchg(7)
Level 4: Combustion Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(5), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Combat Jumping Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17), DefBuff-I(25), DefBuff-I(27), Winter-ResSlow(27), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29)
Level 8: Unyielding RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-EndRdx(46)
Level 10: Taunt Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(29), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(31), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(31), Mocking-Rchg(33)
Level 12: Swift Run-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(33)
Level 16: Health Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(33), Mrcl-Rcvry+(34), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(34), Numna-Heal(34), RgnTis-Regen+(36)
Level 18: Invincibility LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 20: Stamina P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-End%(36)
Level 22: Resist Physical Damage S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam(43), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(45), Aegis-Psi/Status(45)
Level 24: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 26: Tough Hide DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(37), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 30: Boxing Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Tough RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(40), RctvArm-ResDam(40), RctvArm-EndRdx(42)
Level 35: Weave DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 38: Build Up Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(A), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 41: Char Acc-I(A)
Level 44: Melt Armor Acc-I(A)
Level 47: Fire Ball Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(50)
Level 49: Resist Energies Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(50), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
14.9% Defense(Smashing)
14.9% Defense(Lethal)
14.6% Defense(Fire)
14.6% Defense(Cold)
16.1% Defense(Energy)
16.1% Defense(Negative)
3% Defense(Psionic)
8.94% Defense(Melee)
14.3% Defense(Ranged)
12.1% Defense(AoE)
5.4% Max End
9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
4% Enhancement(Heal)
42.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
5% FlySpeed
203.8 HP (10.9%) HitPoints
5% JumpHeight
5% JumpSpeed
MezResist(Held) 2.75%
MezResist(Immobilize) 6.05%
MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
20% Perception
5% (0.08 End/sec) Recovery
42% (3.29 HP/sec) Regeneration
20% ResEffect(FlySpeed)
20% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
20% ResEffect(RunSpeed)
1.26% Resistance(Fire)
1.26% Resistance(Cold)
1.88% Resistance(Energy)
3% Resistance(Psionic)
15% RunSpeed
1% XPDebtProtection
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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For Great Justice!
If I can offer a few thoughts...
- Fire/Cold damage is very rare; I wouldn't worry about specifically building that much extra def to it. If it were me I'd only slot 4 Reactive Armor IO's and loose the F/C def set bonus. I'd put those slots somewhere more useful, like in your attacks.
- Combat Jumping really isn't worth putting 6 slots into; I'd call it good with just the two Zephyr IO's.
- I'd trade Swift for Hurdle; particularly since you're using Super Jump for a travel. Hurdle stacks very nicely with CJ/SJ for jump speed and distance. The only time I get Swift is on a Stone tanker; for all others I find Hurdle is more useful, even for fliers.
- I'm not sure I'd spend that many slots on Health, you'll do better slotting your attacks to drop enemies faster than focusing on the additional regen. Consider slotting just one of the uniques and possibly a Heal IO; both of them is overkill for your end use. I don't have either on my Inv/Stone and have few problems; Inv/Fire is a great deal lighter on end.
- Looking at your secondary I'd suggest a few changes; drop Build Up and grab Greater Fire Sword or Incinerate, ideally both. You're current build is crippling your single target attack chain. With the exception of Scorch and your AOE's you haven't slotted your attacks.
- Melt Armor is a power I'd drop and replace with Fire Blast; a fast recharging ranged attack will be more valuable to you than an extremely slow recharging and minimally effective debuff. MA will only be available to you every 2 minutes and 20 seconds with your current slotting. Fire Blast would be available every 4 seconds.
That's what really jumps out at me with your build; of course it's your character so you should build it to suit YOU, not me. I can see the logic you're going for, but I think there are more effective ways you could accomplish your goals.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Wow! CMA action on my little thread. Thanks!
Of course now I am just going to rely on your awesomeness, grin
-If CMA says that cold/fire is not an issue, I will indeed pull out the extra Reac armors and may as well lose (or not take) Resist Elements.
-CJ seemed to add a few Def points, but let me recheck that.
-I usually take Hurdle with SuperSpeed and Swift with SuperJump to cover the other side of things, not a good idea? SuperJump needs more help? (I also have the jetpack too of course.)
-I stole the slotting of Health from DSorrow, but let me re-examine that - def want to keep the +Recovery stuff I think. (Numina/Miracle) I hate running out of end - but maybe I will try playing without them for a bit and see how it feels.
-Why do I need ST attacks again? I have Scorch/Sand of Mu/Nemmy Staff - can't I just eschew them completely and go with my AoE?
-I think I am feeling your suggestion about dropping Melt Armor and getting Fire Blast. Plus that will give me some extra set options if I slot it with some of the slots I am removing from elsewhere.
I guess I am open to thinking about most of what you say - your are Awesome, after all. 
It's just the ST stuff that has me flumoxed - for dps I want to focus on a lot of high AoE damage because presumably I will have a lot of baddies aruond me. Therefor BuildUp, Combustion, FSC, Fireball. And AoE attacks have the added benefit that each one is a taunt.
Now if you think I ought to consider dropping Hasten and getting GFS in its place, that could be doable - Hasten isn't making *that* big a difference for me.
Is that what you would recommend?
For Great Justice!
Quote:
One thing that I'd like to point out is that if you have even 25% S/L defense with no foes in range, on a Invuln Tanker that has Tough and Weave you will survive any content outside of some ridiculous MAs.|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Wow! CMA action on my little thread. Thanks!
Of course now I am just going to rely on your awesomeness, grin -If CMA says that cold/fire is not an issue, I will indeed pull out the extra Reac armors and may as well lose (or not take) Resist Elements. -CJ seemed to add a few Def points, but let me recheck that. -I usually take Hurdle with SuperSpeed and Swift with SuperJump to cover the other side of things, not a good idea? SuperJump needs more help? (I also have the jetpack too of course.) -I stole the slotting of Health from DSorrow, but let me re-examine that - def want to keep the +Recovery stuff I think. (Numina/Miracle) I hate running out of end - but maybe I will try playing without them for a bit and see how it feels. -Why do I need ST attacks again? I have Scorch/Sand of Mu/Nemmy Staff - can't I just eschew them completely and go with my AoE? -I think I am feeling your suggestion about dropping Melt Armor and getting Fire Blast. Plus that will give me some extra set options if I slot it with some of the slots I am removing from elsewhere. I guess I am open to thinking about most of what you say - your are Awesome, after all. It's just the ST stuff that has me flumoxed - for dps I want to focus on a lot of high AoE damage because presumably I will have a lot of baddies aruond me. Therefor BuildUp, Combustion, FSC, Fireball. And AoE attacks have the added benefit that each one is a taunt.Now if you think I ought to consider dropping Hasten and getting GFS in its place, that could be doable - Hasten isn't making *that* big a difference for me. Is that what you would recommend? |
And you will easily survive the popular MA farms (my Invuln Tanker can afk while I change the oil in my car on a full group L54 boss farm).
People seem to get fixated on hitting soft and hard caps, but in this case it's basically overkill. If you wanted to bring up your offensive numbers (which you seem to want to do) you can easily afford to sacrifice some defense in your build.
Just an FYI.
Quote:
Melt Armour is also an AoE that does -res but just a meagre 10ft rad one. To be truthful over time I think it falls short of what assault can offer in opposite terms of +dam. With so little slots to go in it or not I am not sure its worth keeping especially if Fire blast works out to be a much needed filler.
|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
I guess I am open to thinking about most of what you say - your are Awesome, after all.
It's just the ST stuff that has me flumoxed - for dps I want to focus on a lot of high AoE damage because presumably I will have a lot of baddies aruond me. Therefor BuildUp, Combustion, FSC, Fireball. And AoE attacks have the added benefit that each one is a taunt. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
Hasten could be knocking a few secs off of Fireball.|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Now if you think I ought to consider dropping Hasten and getting GFS in its place, that could be doable - Hasten isn't making *that* big a difference for me.
|
I took what you done...why waste it? Then kept you near enough soft capped with 1 in front of you so that you probably tank most AVs only too well with S/L and E being the most important then ofc your going to AoE the hell out of things. You could tank AVs in melee whilst being buffed by minions but I have yet to see many teams that allow that.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
InvFire Nuker: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-EndRdx(46)
Level 1: Scorch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal(7), Dct'dW-Rchg(7)
Level 4: Combustion -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(5), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17), LkGmblr-Def(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-EndRdx(46)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(29), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(31), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(31), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(33), Zinger-Dam%(46)
Level 12: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(33)
Level 16: Health -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(33), Mrcl-Rcvry+(34), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(34), Numna-Heal(34)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-End%(36)
Level 22: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), RctvArm-ResDam(40), RctvArm-EndRdx(42), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36), LkGmblr-Def(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(A), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 41: Char -- Acc-I(A)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(45), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
Fire/Cold is possibly the rarest damage type; I'm not sure but it may be even less common than Psi. For that rare a damage type settling for roughly 30-35% defense is more than enough.|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Wow! CMA action on my little thread. Thanks!
Of course now I am just going to rely on your awesomeness, grin -If CMA says that cold/fire is not an issue, I will indeed pull out the extra Reac armors and may as well lose (or not take) Resist Elements. -CJ seemed to add a few Def points, but let me recheck that. -I usually take Hurdle with SuperSpeed and Swift with SuperJump to cover the other side of things, not a good idea? SuperJump needs more help? (I also have the jetpack too of course.) |
The advice about CJ is that it's base def is low enough that it's not really worth the investment in slots to build it up.
Swift won't do a lot for a jumper, but Hurdle will have a very noticeable effect on your jump speed and your jump distance.
Quote:
| -I stole the slotting of Health from DSorrow, but let me re-examine that - def want to keep the +Recovery stuff I think. (Numina/Miracle) I hate running out of end - but maybe I will try playing without them for a bit and see how it feels. |
Quote:
| -Why do I need ST attacks again? I have Scorch/Sand of Mu/Nemmy Staff - can't I just eschew them completely and go with my AoE? |
As for the vet attacks remember that they're low accuracy... they'll run 75% base and you can't slot them. Generally I don't rely on them much once I have a full chain of attacks... with the exception of the Nem staff for a ranged attention getter.
Quote:
| -I think I am feeling your suggestion about dropping Melt Armor and getting Fire Blast. Plus that will give me some extra set options if I slot it with some of the slots I am removing from elsewhere. |
Quote:
|
I guess I am open to thinking about most of what you say - your are Awesome, after all. It's just the ST stuff that has me flumoxed - for dps I want to focus on a lot of high AoE damage because presumably I will have a lot of baddies aruond me. Therefor BuildUp, Combustion, FSC, Fireball. And AoE attacks have the added benefit that each one is a taunt. Now if you think I ought to consider dropping Hasten and getting GFS in its place, that could be doable - Hasten isn't making *that* big a difference for me. Is that what you would recommend? |
I typically use this basic thought process in deciding on power selections:
- Will this help me with my primary purpose, to control aggro?
- Will this help me SURVIVE the aggro I get?
- Will this help me kill the mobs so I can contribute more to the team?
There are a few exceptions for QoL purposes; the prime one being a travel power... although CJ can be argued to fall under #2. The Hurdle/Health/Stamina line is pretty much a given with any tanker... these eat up 5 of your 24 total power selections. 7 powers from Invulnerability (skipping Res Elements & Unstoppable) and 3 from Fighting (boxing/tough/weave) and your total is 15 out of 24 and we haven't even started the secondary yet with only 9 power slots remaining. I'd say you'll want a minimum of 6 powers from Fire Melee (Scorch, Combustion, Taunt, FSC, Incinerate & GFS) and now you're down to 3 choices. You want Fire Ball, so that means you're stuck with taking Char/Fire blast/Fire Ball to round out your build.
You can't have everything you want in your build so you have to prioritize, stuff that gets aggro and stuff that keeps you alive takes priority over frills. Damage is nice, but remember your purpose is to control the battle first, then to worry about actually killing things.
My Stone/Fire tanker uses the following attack chain (outside of Granite): Combustion/FSC/Fire Ball as an opener followed by GFS/Incinerate/Scorch/Fire Blast/Fire Sword on the mobs who survived the AOEs. It's a waste of end using an AOE against one mob. All of my attacks slotted to ED capped damage and at least 50% accuracy... obviously there's recharge in there as well since I'm dealing with a Stone tanker.
On the defensive side, my Inv/Stone tanker, CMA, has proven unkillable since issue 13 with my defenses approximately like this, with one foe in range of Invincibility:
- 45% S/L def
- 42% E/N def
- 35% F/C def
- ~24% Ranged/Melee/AOE def
- 90% S/L resist
- 31% E/N resist
- 19% F/C resist
By the numbers CMA isn't as durable as Granite Flame, my Stone/Fire tank. In the "real" world the extra durability of the Stone tanker is a moot point; CMA's more than tough enough for anything I've found.
Ultimately though it's your tanker and you're the one who has to be pleased with it; I can only suggest what I would do with my tanking philosophy. I understand what you're thinking about with your build; where it breaks down is when you have to deal with something tougher than Minions and possibly LT's. Combustion/Fire Sword Circle/Fire Ball should certainly eliminate most of the Minions and severely injure the LT's but you're going to have a lengthy period waiting for your AOE's to recharge... and even if you had a seamless AOE chain you'll need some stout ST attacks for the Bosses, EB's and AV's.
I hope this made sense to you, I'm typing this at 1AM so I'm not at my sharpest
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
OK, having thought about it, this is where I am:
For now, I simply can't take 3 AoEs and not take BuildUp - that would be a crime. If I have a minimum of 8 baddies around me and if I can fire two of my AoEs off before BU runs out, that's a 230 attack plus a 160 attack, instead of a 162 and a 113 - a difference of about 115 damage per baddie, or over 900 points of damage total over 8 baddies.
If I give up BU, I give up 900 damage. Plus, with BU, I hit more, making the true damage difference probably go to 1000. And hitting more is good for the tank, as it keeps baddies on him.
True, if I am going one on one with a final remaining baddie, I am only doing 270 to him with the same two attacks - but even Incinerate only does 220 or so.
However, if I drop Hasten, and pickup GFS, keeping Build Up means that not only can my GFS hit more often, it will do 400 instead of 285 - a 115 extra points of damage.
Also, I think I agree with you about CJ - instead of putting 2 Def IOs in it to eke out 1.1% more def, I am beter served dropping those two slots in my BuildUp to have it up every 35 seconds instead of 42.5
Anyways, this is the build I am up to now, what do you guys think?
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam(15)
Level 1: Scorch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal(7), Dct'dW-Rchg(7)
Level 4: Combustion -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(5), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17), Winter-ResSlow(27), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam(15)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(29), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(31), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(31), Mocking-Rchg(33)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(33)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(34)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-End%(36)
Level 22: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam(33), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(34), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(34)
Level 24: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(27), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(43), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(43)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(37), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(36), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(40), RctvArm-ResDam(40)
Level 35: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(42), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Char -- Acc-I(A)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(45), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(50)
Level 49: Resist Energies -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(50), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Code:
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For Great Justice!
Quote:
That's because the passives didn't do jack, number-wise. And now, we have more enemies than before who just LOVE to debuff you. Cimerorian traitors, Arachnos, Malta, Carnies... and guess what? The Passives give you resistance to those types of debuffs! AND they've had a numeric increase, which means, hey, you can actually get some decent resist against exotic damage!|
Originally Posted by Kruunch
I wouldn't call this a big mistake (desirable in some circumstances maybe). Invuln Tankers have been skipping passives for years and doing just fine through all of the content of this game.
If you're tight on power choices, the passives are usually the first skippable powers in an Invuln build (along with Unstoppable if you want to get right down to it). I would skip REl, RE, Unstoppable and then RPD in that order of skippable. |
And of course, if one DOES consider IOs (though the OP said he wasn't going that route), one can build for a hefty amount of psi resist/defense using the defense and resistance Sets, which plugs that hole right up and makes you completely... well, Invulnerable.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Quote:
I am definitely using IOs, several hundred million worth - which you can see if you look at the build ideas I posted.
|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
And of course, if one DOES consider IOs (though the OP said he wasn't going that route), one can build for a hefty amount of psi resist/defense using the defense and resistance Sets, which plugs that hole right up and makes you completely... well, Invulnerable.
|
For Great Justice!
Quote:
There is a price to pay for that though. The eps of the build in action might have gone up by a lot. Work out the eps of the attack chains and see if your end rec to end drain window is high enough. With GFS out and hasten in, you get a 15 end drop every so often but providing your not using your aoes on less than 4 your attack chain should be doing greater dpeps. In a farm, any unfinished few can be taken to the next group where they can be finished with I would imagine.
|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
However, if I drop Hasten, and pickup GFS, keeping Build Up means that not only can my GFS hit more often, it will do 400 instead of 285 - a 115 extra points of damage.
|
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I have dealt with DPS before, I assume that EPS is just end per sec for the chain on average?
So if I have:
Combustion: 8 End, 6.5 Recharge, 3 Cast Time
Fire Sword Circle: 11.5 End, 8.7 Recharge, 2.7 Cast Time
Fireball: 11.2 End, 17.8 Recharge, 1 Cast Time
Greater Fire Sword: 8.6 End, 5.4 Recharge, 2.33 Cast Time
Taunt: 0 End??, 4 Recharge, 1.7 Cast Time (81 Duration)
Where does this leave me? I assume that the Recharge starts after the Cast Time completes? So I can fire off Combustion every 9.5 seconds? (6.5 Recharge plus 3 Cast Time?) Or does the power start recharging as soon as you begin the Cast?
For Great Justice!
Rechg time starts after the cast time.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Ah... so, does that mean my dpeps is OK, or is there something wrong with it?
For Great Justice!
Rejiggered build on more time, realized I could slap a Kinetic Combat into GFS, even more S/L prots, now we are up to Defs of
47.3 S/L
45.8 E/N
42 Fire/Cold
14.4 Psi
22.2 Melee
25.6 Rng
20.9 AoE
And Res of:
93.14 S/L
32.9 NRG
31.1 Neg
16.9 Fire/Cold
15.7 Toxic
0 Psi
That should work I hope.
EDIT (added correct slotting order)
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam(11)
Level 1: Scorch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal(5), Dct'dW-Rchg(5)
Level 4: Combustion -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(7), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Winter-ResSlow(43), DefBuff-I(43), Zephyr-Travel(46), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(46)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam(15)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(33), Mocking-Rchg(33), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(33), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(37), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(37)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(43)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(36)
Level 22: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam(42), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(42), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(42)
Level 24: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(25), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(37)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(27), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(34), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RctvArm-ResDam(34)
Level 35: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Char -- Acc-I(A)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(45), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(50)
Level 49: Resist Energies -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(50), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Code:
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For Great Justice!
Throughout your builds you are pretty adamant on having really high fire and cold def. There is hardly any that causes that much defs worth of issues to an Invuln imo. Your fireball is like 18secs of rechg which is too long to me, I'd be like "fun wait" 
. If you were farming Behemoths you would run into the group and have an extra 11% of defense to them putting you way over soft cap. Why not just hit softcap and have a 12 sec rechg on Fireball? I still think that you could probably afford to lose 6% fire/def and be more destructive.
Had you worked out the eps of your attack chain? Adding accolades you have an end rec to end drain window of 2.34eps so you end gain that. If your attack chain eps is a lot higher then not to fear, work out roughly your end gain between mobs and add that. Farming tanks are probably better off not having to rest. I don't farm but I would ordinarily aim for a window that is roughly at least 2.5 eps.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
How would we decrease the recharge? I guess I feel a little confused - I didn't drop Hasten (if that is what you are referring to) to add Fire/Cod def, but to add GFS for more ST damage. Is there a way that I am in the moment overlooking to significantly decrease the recharges without sacrificing GFS/BuildUp? What is the trade off you are recommending here - dropping what and picking up what to get the recharge down? What gets Fireball to 12 seconds? If all I give up is some Fire/Cold Def, that sounds like a trade I would make... but it's not like I took Resist Elements anyways, so I am uncertain of your specific recommendation. |
Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
Throughout your builds you are pretty adamant on having really high fire and cold def. There is hardly any that causes that much defs worth of issues to an Invuln imo. Your fireball is like 18secs of rechg which is too long to me, I'd be like "fun wait"
. If you were farming Behemoths you would run into the group and have an extra 11% of defense to them putting you way over soft cap. Why not just hit softcap and have a 12 sec rechg on Fireball? I still think that you could probably afford to lose 6% fire/def and be more destructive. |
Quote:
| Had you worked out the eps of your attack chain? Adding accolades you have an end rec to end drain window of 2.34eps so you end gain that. If your attack chain eps is a lot higher then not to fear, work out roughly your end gain between mobs and add that. Farming tanks are probably better off not having to rest. I don't farm but I would ordinarily aim for a window that is roughly at least 2.5 eps. |
And of course, if we do something to shift recharge, that can totally invalidate any attack chain we come up with at current recharges. Perhaps we should figure out what recharge we end up with, and then we can go from there?
PS: I don't tend to pursue badges, therefor I don't tend to acquire accolades.
For Great Justice!
PS. Shannon - I have put the respec of this guy off until I hear your reply (to the above), so sooner would be better...
Thanks.
For Great Justice!
So... *what* did you mean, Shannon?
Quote:
In what way can I get +recharge by giving up Fire/Cold??| Why not just hit softcap and have a 12 sec rechg on Fireball? |
I'm running out of time, here...
For Great Justice!
OK, will assume that that was an error on your part, lacking any reply to the contrary. Proceeding further...
For Great Justice!
I don't have resist elements or energies yet and I only come into real issues with psionic enemies.
ALL of my primaries that take a resist damage enhn i have 4 slotted with Reactive Armor and i have 2 or 3 single target attacks with smashing haymaker in it to get the S/L set bonus.
Also, full set of Perfect Zingers on taunt is amazing.
Finally, i agree with skipping unstopable and heal self and I'd say get tough and weave.
Like I said, there really isn't anything that can hurt me at the moment, and when I get resist energies I will very very very rarely have faceplant issues.
To that extent DSarrow's build will physically survive but is not a particularly good farm build.