Cold/Ice

Anyone been on test and had any experience of this AT. Am going to role one for the ice/storm team. Any advice on what are the must have powers and which are instantly forgetable.
Any particular tactics peculiar to this AT or defenders in general as I've never played one before.
Thanks for your help.

Hello,

I've not run Cold/Ice on test, but I've started one on live .

This is the rough build I'm aiming for

1 Infrigidate
1 Ice Bolt
2 Ice Blast
4 Snow Storm
6 Ice Shield
8 Frostwork
10 Travel Pool
12 Arctic Fog
14 Travel Pool
16 Freeze Ray
18 Glacial Shield
20 Swift/hurdle
22 Health
24 Stamina
26 Sleet
28 Bitter Ice Blast
30 Benumb
32 Heat Loss
35 Bitter Freeze Ray?
38 Blizzard?

I'm aiming at teaming as much as possible. Hopefully vigilance will offset the end costs of cold/ice powers. So far I'm only up to 6th level, but it feels like it'll be a safe combination. Infrigidate really slows down targets, Ice blast is nice and quick, and Snow storm is as reliable as ever . Not had enough experience of Ice shield yet.

However, it almost seems like all the slows are a bit of an overkill and I'm considering restarting with a different secondary.

The tricky choice was when to take Glacial shield and Benumb. Cold domination seems like a combo of buffs and debuffs, but I don't know which way to go first. Freeze ray at 16 should be a great pick, I've found having a single target hold helps out loads.

I had a read through corruptor guides and modified the comments accordingly.

Ice / Cold guide on the American forums

Although I believe positional defence was added into the shields after this guide was written. I don't know if it's in the defender version or not.

They way I approach defending is to defend . Keep the team buffed, debuff targets when appropriate and hold / blast when I don't have anything else to do. Keep an eye on who has the buffs, and who actually needs them. Learn to recognise the best targets for debuffs/anchors, which will change from team to team.

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences when you get going.

Cheers,

Mike.

My Cold/Ice Defender at about level 2, so not much use to you

From my Ice/Dark Corruptor, I would say that from Ice you can skip one of Ice Bolt, or Ice Blast if you need to, with a defender it would have to be Ice Blast even tho' I prefer it to Ice Bolt on my Corruptor. You'll definitely want Frost Breath, Freeze Ray and Bitter Ice Blast. For a Cold/Ice defender you'll want Ice Storm and Blizard to stack with Cold's Sleet. Bitter Freeze Ray is thought the most skippable power in the set since it's considered END hungry for what it does, and you'll already have Freeze Ray ,

Aim you'll not really want to skip but you might find yourself doing so, or at least taking late.

Cold looks such a well constructed set that I can't see anything that immediately jumps out at me as something you could lose without pangs of regret. Possibly Snow Storm at the top of the list for the least pangs, followed by one of Glacial Shield or Arctic Fog (but the pangs *hurt* for those two).

Going on the assumption that Arctic Fog is essentially the same as Storm's Steamy Mist, you might want to delay it until after Stamina if you're taking Stamina.

It looks a fairly tight build especially for slotting, belike

Well, this is coming from my experience on an ice/cold corr rather than cold/ice def. But i'll try to adapt my mindset to the defending properties rather than offensive properties

The only power in cold/ i'd skip is glacial shield, on CoV i found it had very little use compared to ice shield. If you're really tight on powers, you can drop ice shield as well. You will want the other powers though. The buffs on cold are nice, but not nearly as nice as the sweet debuffs you dish out. With all the debuffs you barely need the shields anymore cause they wont be attacking you anymore in the first place . Frostwork however, i would deffo pick, as putting someone at instant hp cap is just ace.

As for ice blast, i dont agree with the previous post. Why would you want frost breath? I found it to be the most underwhelming power ever when i tried it on my corr for extra slows. Ice has one of the (if not THE) fastest single target attack chains there is, with decent damage output to boot. I found it handier to cycle fast through all your ST moves "simulating" AoE by cycling targets, than to pick some mediocre ice aoes.

Powers I would deffo pick from ice are ice bolt, ice blast, freeze ray and bitter ice blast. You can pick ice storm slotted for slow to hamper your enemies even more. Dont slot it for dmg, especially being a defender secondary the damage will be utter poo (even with sleet). The combo sleet/ice storm/blizzard IS indeed nice, but it takes a while to set up and as a defender i suppose it isnt really your role to nuke.

Therefore I dunno if you want blizzard or not, if you got a spare slot, sure take it, if not, dont go out of your way to get it. Its a defender nuke, dont confuse it with the dmg from the blaster version, even with sleet! I had it on my corr, but specced it out in the end as it wasnt really worth it imo, took too long to set up with sleet and ice storm. Without sleet/ice storm the dmg would just be pitiful.

Get hasten and stamina, you need those. Cold/ice is endheavy, very endheavy and even post-32 heatloss will be down more often than up, so dont rely on that. You need hasten to cycle through the slow charging powers that are benumb and heatloss. I agree with the above, that you prolly want stamina before arctic fog. Dont skip fog though, fog will keep you alive alot! Even if it was just for the slow res.

Normally I'd say get benumb ASAP as its one of the best powers in your set and THE thing to use on all those nasty AVs. However the recharge is very slooooowwwww and without SOs and slots i dunno how much its worth to get it. You'll be well gutted if it misses and you wait hours for it to rech again.

Speaking bout missing, i suggest getting aim before benumb, dont leave aim till late, and really dont skip it! A good combo vs hard targets like AVs is sleet-aim-infrig-benumb. This way you debuff his def first with sleet, aim, debuff def even further, and while aim is active you can smack benumb on someone thats already had his def debuffed, greatly increasing the chance it'll hit. You really want to make sure benumb hits.

So to conclude, i'd say:

Cold skippable:
first glacial shield, then if needed ice shield.

Ice skippable:
all except ice bolt, blast, BIB, freeze ray and aim

Pools to get:
hasten, stamina

Hope that was any help

[ QUOTE ]

Therefore I dunno if you want blizzard or not, if you got a spare slot, sure take it, if not, dont go out of your way to get it. Its a defender nuke, dont confuse it with the dmg from the blaster version, even with sleet! I had it on my corr, but specced it out in the end as it wasnt really worth it imo, took too long to set up with sleet and ice storm. Without sleet/ice storm the dmg would just be pitiful.



[/ QUOTE ]

Could not disagree more.

Also talking from a Corr point of view...Blizzard, pitiful? Aim...Soul Drain...Some reds...Sleet...Nuke...small blue...HEATLOSS...back into action to pick some off. Heck, in AV fights, that's part of my debuff cycle, after snow storm and benumb.

For a defender, admittedly, that's less your role. But don't be so quick to dismiss and EXTREME DoT Location Nuke. The application is one far more values than the KBlicious Nova

Edit: 'Would just be'. Missed out on the tense. I retain my point, just taking the fact the quote wasn't meant as i took it into account

and here you just proven my point:
[ QUOTE ]
Aim...Soul Drain...Some reds...Sleet...Nuke...

[/ QUOTE ]

In order to deal damage you need souldrain, reds and sleet? Souldrain means you better have a good tank to keep aggro off you as you'll be standing in the mob for a while firing it off. Then you need reds and a -res debuff in order to deal damage ON TOP OF THAT? By that logic, i will own with repulsion bomb on a FF defender if i pop a load of reds first..

Yes, blizzard was nice for a while and like i said i used it. The beauty of a nuke however is that you just fire it off and you kill stuff, not prepare 10 mins before a nuke. I found out i kill mobs faster by just cycling my chain rather than spending all the time setting up a nuke. In coh as a def that means that those mins you:

a) arent buffing your teammates
b) arent debuffing your enemies
c) are too late, cause that blaster already killed em all while you were busy popping rads.

Also what you said requires to take soul drain, which i didnt have cause i picked black scorpion as patron, the slows and -jump/fly in his hold/immob synergizes perfectly with cold and of course the extra def to nrg combined with fog's nrg res is nice synergy as well. Of course this does not matter for a defender as they wont get souldrain. Nor is their role to be main damage dealer in a team. Nor will their nuke do as much damage as a corr, with it being their secondary rather than primary.

Of course heatloss is nice to get back in the fight, but thats with any nuke, not just blizzard. I would find the psy nuke better on a defender (for the stun and massive -rech) than blizzard, and lo and behold, you got heatloss as well.

So I retain my point, its a nice extra, but dont go out of your way to get it, cold/ice is tight enough as it is imo.

Thanks guys, there's an awful lot of good info here. Especially liked the idea about the order that you use your debuffs in is very important, seems obvious but it's the sort of thing that might not occur to you without a bit of experience.
Some of the info I feel is a little hard to grasp as I haven't had any experience with my powers yet but I think you have provided me with a valuable resource that I will probably be refering back to throughout my career as an Cold/Ice Fender. Thanks a lot guys.
So far I've taken the 3 minus recharge powers as I intend to prioritise the buff/debuff aspects rather than damage.

I got my cold/ice def to 50 on monday night and have nearly finished slotting it now, just 1 set short. This is my build for the defender hope it is helpful.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Techno Ice: Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Cold Domination
Secondary Power Set: Ice Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Infrigidate -- UndDef-DefDeb:39(A), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg:39(21), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx:39(23), UndDef-DefDeb/EndRdx:39(23), UndDef-Rchg:39(25), Acc-I:40(25)
Level 1: Ice Bolt -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:39(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:39(7), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:39(17), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:39(19), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:39(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg:39(21)
Level 2: Ice Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:39(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:39(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:39(3), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:39(5), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:39(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg:39(7)
Level 4: Ice Shield -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:39(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:39(29), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:39(29), RedFtn-Def:39(31), RedFtn-EndRdx:39(31)
Level 6: Glacial Shield -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:39(A), RedFtn-EndRdx:39(13), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:39(31), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:39(33), RedFtn-Def:39(33)
Level 8: Frostwork -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:39(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:39(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:39(9), Dct'dW-Heal:39(15), Dct'dW-Rchg:39(17)
Level 10: Aim -- AdjTgt-ToHit:39(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:39(11), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg:39(11), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx:39(13), AdjTgt-Rchg:39(15)
Level 12: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:39(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Frbd-Stlth:39(A), Flight-I:40(33)
Level 16: Freeze Ray -- UbrkCons-Hold:50(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg:50(39), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg:50(40), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg:50(40), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold:50(40)
Level 18: Benumb -- Acc-I:40(A), Acc-I:40(37), RechRdx-I:40(37), RechRdx-I:40(39), RechRdx-I:40(39)
Level 20: Arctic Fog -- EndRdx-I:40(A), EndRdx-I:40(36), EndRdx-I:40(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+:39(37)
Level 22: Hurdle -- Jump-I:40(A)
Level 24: Health -- Heal-I:40(A)
Level 26: Stamina -- EndMod-I:40(A), EndMod-I:40(27), EndMod-I:40(27)
Level 28: Sleet -- UndDef-DefDeb:39(A), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg:39(34), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx:39(34), UndDef-DefDeb/EndRdx:39(34), UndDef-Rchg:39(36)
Level 30: Bitter Ice Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:39(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:39(48), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:39(48), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:39(50), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:39(50), Thundr-Acc/Dmg:39(50)
Level 32: Heat Loss -- Efficacy-EndMod:39(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:39(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:39(42), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:39(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:39(43), RechRdx-I:40(43)
Level 35: Stimulant -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Aid Self -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:39(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:39(43), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:39(45), Dct'dW-Heal:39(45), Dct'dW-Rchg:39(45)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(46), RechRdx-I:40(46)
Level 44: Power Build Up -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(46), RechRdx-I:40(48)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:40(A)
Level 49: Snow Storm -- EndRdx-I:40(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+12.5% DamageBuff[*]+10.4% Max Endurance[*]+38% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]+8% Enhancement(Heal)[*]+68.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]+90.4 (7.5%) HitPoints[*]+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 12.7%)[*]+MezResist(Terrorized) (Mag 4.4%)[*]+5.5% Recovery[*]+10% Regeneration[*]+7.56% Resistance(Fire)[*]+7.56% Resistance(Cold)[*]+1.26% Resistance(Energy)[*]+1.26% Resistance(Negative)[/list]


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Looks as a nice build, though I suggest (unless you team alot in larger teams) to get some more +recov bonuses in there. I got roughly +28% recov on my corr (without miracle and numina uniques) and it really makes the char so so much better. Of course if youre always in larger teams the situation greatly changes and you dont burn through your end as fast (especially with the defender's inherent).

errr.

Why doesn't my Mids do issue 12?

It seems to be up to date as far as updates go but this data chunk just crashes my Mids.

afaik there is no official i12 patch for mids yet, there are some unofficial ones roaming about though.

I have nearly got perma heatloss. I am without it for about 15-20 secs, with heatloss im at rec cap so i dont see y i need more rec. I am going to change the build slightly, by not having the fitness pool at all as it has been pointed out to me that it might not be necessary.

[ QUOTE ]
I have nearly got perma heatloss. I am without it for about 15-20 secs, with heatloss im at rec cap so i dont see y i need more rec. I am going to change the build slightly, by not having the fitness pool at all as it has been pointed out to me that it might not be necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

you will have to let us know how that turns out as i would love to be able to drop fitness

suppose with the defender inherent and if you play mainly PvE 15-20 secs downtime is bearable. On my corr those 15-20 secs is too long so i slapped some +recov in there

Ok this is the build I am going to try. It is without the fitness pool. When fully setted out it will giv heatloss a downtime of 7 seconds. I hope to finsh this build within the next two weeks and will let you know how it is working out

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Techno Ice: Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Cold Domination
Secondary Power Set: Ice Blast
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Infrigidate -- UndDef-DefDeb:39(A), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg:39(21), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx:39(23), UndDef-DefDeb/EndRdx:39(23), UndDef-Rchg:39(25), Acc-I:40(25)
Level 1: Ice Bolt -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:39(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:39(7), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:39(17), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:39(19), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:39(19), Thundr-Acc/Dmg:39(21)
Level 2: Ice Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:39(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:39(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:39(3), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:39(5), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:39(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg:39(7)
Level 4: Ice Shield -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:39(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:39(29), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:39(29), RedFtn-Def:39(31), RedFtn-EndRdx:39(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+:39(33)
Level 6: Glacial Shield -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:39(A), RedFtn-EndRdx:39(13), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:39(31), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:39(33), RedFtn-Def:39(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+:39(45)
Level 8: Frostwork -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:39(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:39(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:39(9), Dct'dW-Heal:39(15), Dct'dW-Rchg:39(17)
Level 10: Aim -- AdjTgt-ToHit:39(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:39(11), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg:39(11), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx:39(13), AdjTgt-Rchg:39(15)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:39(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- ULeap-Stlth:39(A)
Level 16: Freeze Ray -- UbrkCons-Hold:50(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg:50(39), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg:50(40), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg:50(40), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold:50(40)
Level 18: Benumb -- Acc-I:40(A), Acc-I:40(37), RechRdx-I:40(37), RechRdx-I:40(39), RechRdx-I:40(39)
Level 20: Arctic Fog -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx:40(36), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+:39(37)
Level 22: Stimulant -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Aid Self -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:40(A), Dct'dW-Rchg:39(43), Dct'dW-Heal:39(45), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:39(45), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:40(46)
Level 26: Sleet -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:39(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:39(27), Posi-Acc/Dmg:39(27), Posi-Dmg/Rng:39(34), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:39(36)
Level 28: Bitter Ice Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:39(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:39(34), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:39(34), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:39(42), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:39(43), Thundr-Acc/Dmg:39(43)
Level 30: Snow Storm -- RechRdx-I:40(A)
Level 32: Heat Loss -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(42), RechRdx-I:40(42)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:39(A)
Level 38: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I:40(A)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(46), RechRdx-I:40(46)
Level 44: Ice Storm -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:40(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg:39(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:39(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng:39(50), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:39(50)
Level 47: Power Build Up -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(48), RechRdx-I:40(50)
Level 49: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I:40(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+8% DamageBuff[*]+8.55% Max Endurance[*]+49% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]+8% Enhancement(Heal)[*]+103.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]+58.7 (4.88%) HitPoints[*]+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 12.7%)[*]+MezResist(Terrorized) (Mag 4.4%)[*]+9% Recovery[*]+10.7% Resistance(Fire)[*]+10.7% Resistance(Cold)[*]+1.26% Resistance(Energy)[*]+1.26% Resistance(Negative)[/list]


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|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
</pre><hr />

Snow storm with 1 rech rdx, acrobatics and TI with 1 end rdx each, this build may be quite tough when you don't really have any targets to do a strong enough Heat Loss, but I may be wrong since I've not read up well on the Heat Loss end mod value.

All in all it looks like a nice build but putting positrons blast on a power like sleet, are you sure there's nothing better? because sleet doesn't really damage much and positrons doesn't exactly give much rech..

snow storm was meant to b a end red sorry. At the moment i am getting the rec cap from one target. Not sure if this is a bug or if the cold will get nerfed atm. So im thinkin i may wait now till I make this build. Only went for posi because of the rech from the set. Think i might try it out on the test server 1st tho. Cheers for the input =)

Thanks for the advice all and the builds PB will have a good look when I get the oppurtunity.
Played 'Cryo-Genix' for the first time last night and had a really good time. I'm loving snow storm and infridgiate.
He will probably take a while to progress as he's a once a week charecter but it did open my eyes to the joy of defending and I might well role another for good measure.
Cheers again all and good gaming.

Odd question - which enemy groups have high Cold resistance and which are more vulnerable?

[ QUOTE ]
Odd question - which enemy groups have high Cold resistance and which are more vulnerable?

[/ QUOTE ]
High resists: some BP, CoT Hordelings and Hellfrost, some Coralax, some DE, quite a few Freaks, Ghosts, Infected, some Malta (Titans).

Vulnerable: some CoT (Behemoths, Envoy, Infernal), Hellions, Lanaruu, Igneous, some Nems (Jaegers, Warhulks).

Source: clicky.