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This guys is for pure tanking. Damage is second priority but it's always great to have. 
Anyone have any Stone/Ice builds to share. I will be tinkering with mids soon but just wanted to get a head start on where to go.
Thanks in advance!
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Are you interested in using granite like a click power or are you planning on using it for any heavy lifting tanking as a toggle?
The reason this question is important is that if you are planning on using granite with any frequency ice is probably not an ideal secondary. What you want with a heavy granite build is not mitigation through your secondary, what you want is agro control. What you want is aoe, and quick single target attacks without any major recharge. IMO fire is perfectly suited to this, but others might have had as good or better experience with other secondaries.
If you want to spend most of your time outside of granite and only want to use it like an emergency click power then ice is ideal and probably the best available option. Then again if you were planning on doing this I'm not sure stone is as optimal as something like ice might work a little better.
If on the other hand you are looking for concept reasons alone or interested in just trying the combo, ignore my above post. 
I have never played an ice secondary, and certainly haven't paired it with stone. I could give you advise on what to take in stone to get you through, but there might be someone else that comes along that could give better advise on a particular stone/ice build.
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Save yourself the frustration, and roll as something else. I had a Stone/Ice Tanker way back when, and not only did I fail to come up with a suitable IO build for it, I realized exactly how bad that combo is. I rolled it because I knew it was rare... now I know why it's rare. I ended up deleting mine at level 34 or 35 and never looked back. 
Basically your damage is pretty mediocre outside of Granite and downright pitiful while running Granite. You're an aggro-control powerhouse (Mud Pots, Taunt, Ice Patch, and all that jazz) but it comes at the cost of not being able to kill a damn thing.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Save yourself the frustration, and roll as something else. I had a Stone/Ice Tanker way back when, and not only did I fail to come up with a suitable IO build for it, I realized exactly how bad that combo is. I rolled it because I knew it was rare... now I know why it's rare. I ended up deleting mine at level 34 or 35 and never looked back.
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If you rolled that tank back before Ice Melee got buffed, you're dispensing some bad advice out of ignorance. If you deleted that tank after the buff, you made some bad power choices and never got to see the crown jewel at 38, so you're still dispensing bad advice from lack of experience. My Stone/Ice has better AoE damage output than my Fire/EM, though maybe that says more about EM's AoE damage. It's comparable to my WP/SS too, though not quite as good. Then again, I don't spend all day in Granite, and with Ice Melee, I don't need to.
To the OP, Stone/Ice is a fantastic combo, but it's slow blooming. To help the process, make sure you take Frost and slot it early. It's by far your best attack for the 1st 37 levels of your life. Your second best "attack" will be Mud Pots, so don't skip the damage slotting on that either. If you ever run Herostats, you'll see that Frost & Pots outdamages all your attack attacks by a very wide margin (again, pre-38 and Frozen Aura). Also slot Freezing Touch like an attack--it's also your best ST attack you'll ever get. Don't bother with GIS, but at 38, take and immediatly slot up Frozen Aura. It's basically Foot Stomp--you can choose to ignore the Sleep side effect since Pots will just wake them up anyway. You're now about as good as a tank will ever get in the AoE game (granted, Shield/Ice or Fire/Ice would even be better). Check out Stars' new charts if you don't believe me.
From the Stone side, the standard build is to take & slot Rock, Stone, EE, Rooted and Crystals, then respec at 32 and drop Crystals and any slots in Stone Skin (just the base will do). Pick up Minerals later for psi damage. Mud Pots come after Stamina or you'll be hating life. Swift (and 3-slotted) just before or right after Rooted or you'll really be hating life. I don't usually recommend it outright, but Taunt is also very handy for Stone tanks. You'll also likely want the TP pool, though many strive w/o it. Look for IOs w/+run speed bonuses--some are more expensive than others, but w/enough of them, Granite is no problem. I also recommend Hasten to offset some of Granite's -recharge and +rech IOs as well, but those get very expensive, fast.
BTW, I took Ice Patch at 20, even before Stamina. It's that good, esp for a pre-Granite Stone tanker. Just Ice Patch & Rooted will get you further than all your other powers (again, pre-Granite, and pre-IOs). With IOs, you can cap your S/L def out of Granite and you can relegate it as a true, emergency Tier-9 power.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
I don't know if anyone looked at my sig (my fault I didn't mention it), but I have about 4 years worth of Ice Melee experience so I knew what I was doing when I picked it up with Stone. However, I had never had a stone tank and wanted to see advice on the two together.
For the record, I think Fire/Ice tank has been one of the most underrated builds for a long, long time.
That being said, thanks dave_p for your advice. I am already level 31 so much of the hard part is behind me. I was planning on taking TP.
Question: I was thinking of 5 slotting FA with the cheap purple sleep set (the value there is crazy) and then slotting a damage IO to keep it honest. Is this viable?
I had originally slotted Pots with tempered readiness but I guess that is overkill on mitigation, eh?
Another side note, this toon will mainly be duoing with my Kin so Run speed and Damage were on the back burner. Quite frankly, if I was really wanting to do damage, I would not have rolled a Stone/Ice anyways :-P
My post wasn't really about damage, more about agro generation.
With lower recharge I've found that in granite more aoe = better.
If however you've tried ice and believe it will be an adaquate combo, or are planning on not running granite as much as dave_p does (who I was actually thinking of when I made my post ) then more power to you.
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Question: I was thinking of 5 slotting FA with the cheap purple sleep set (the value there is crazy) and then slotting a damage IO to keep it honest. Is this viable?
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I'd really have to advise against that. You undoubtedly already know that FA is likely your best attack power at 50 (Frost technically does more damage, but you'll hit more targets by far w/FA; if you go Pyre, Fireball has better DPA, but recharges slower) and I'd hate to not slot it for max damage. It's also a really good place for 6-slotting Obliteration, which will add to your S/L defense from Rock, so that's kinda optimal slotting for me.
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I had originally slotted Pots with tempered readiness but I guess that is overkill on mitigation, eh?
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Yeah, I used to slot Pots w/end redux & slows from various Slow sets, but then I ran herostats to see where all my damage was coming from (this was before Ice Melee's boost, so it really was kinda pitiful those days), and it shocked me to see Pots ranked as #2 only behind Frost. Even now, it's #3 behind FA & Frost, since I picked Arctic Mastery (so no Fireball for me). Since then, I've vigorously advocated slotting Pots not just for damage, but a proc or two. You can easily frankenslot to ED cap for damage & end redux and still fit in a damage proc, more depending on the level of the IO. It really adds up.
Mind you, if you're fighting like 1 critter at a time, or trying to solo AVs, Stone/Ice is about the worst combination you can pick in this game, and all my advice about Pots, Frost & FA can be thrown out the window. Play like most normal tanks and you'll be kicking much booty, though yes, you are relegated to a taunt-bot in those AV fights (but a damn tough one!).
Oh, and Fire/Ice is such a sweet build, even if you take away the whole Burn + Ice Patch combo. BU + FE + Frost + FA + Fireball = major mayhem, and Ice Patch of course helps Fire survive better.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Save yourself the frustration, and roll as something else. I had a Stone/Ice Tanker way back when, and not only did I fail to come up with a suitable IO build for it, I realized exactly how bad that combo is. I rolled it because I knew it was rare... now I know why it's rare. I ended up deleting mine at level 34 or 35 and never looked back.
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If you rolled that tank back before Ice Melee got buffed, you're dispensing some bad advice out of ignorance. If you deleted that tank after the buff, you made some bad power choices and never got to see the crown jewel at 38, so you're still dispensing bad advice from lack of experience. My Stone/Ice has better AoE damage output than my Fire/EM, though maybe that says more about EM's AoE damage. It's comparable to my WP/SS too, though not quite as good. Then again, I don't spend all day in Granite, and with Ice Melee, I don't need to.
To the OP, Stone/Ice is a fantastic combo, but it's slow blooming. To help the process, make sure you take Frost and slot it early. It's by far your best attack for the 1st 37 levels of your life. Your second best "attack" will be Mud Pots, so don't skip the damage slotting on that either. If you ever run Herostats, you'll see that Frost & Pots outdamages all your attack attacks by a very wide margin (again, pre-38 and Frozen Aura). Also slot Freezing Touch like an attack--it's also your best ST attack you'll ever get. Don't bother with GIS, but at 38, take and immediatly slot up Frozen Aura. It's basically Foot Stomp--you can choose to ignore the Sleep side effect since Pots will just wake them up anyway. You're now about as good as a tank will ever get in the AoE game (granted, Shield/Ice or Fire/Ice would even be better). Check out Stars' new charts if you don't believe me.
From the Stone side, the standard build is to take & slot Rock, Stone, EE, Rooted and Crystals, then respec at 32 and drop Crystals and any slots in Stone Skin (just the base will do). Pick up Minerals later for psi damage. Mud Pots come after Stamina or you'll be hating life. Swift (and 3-slotted) just before or right after Rooted or you'll really be hating life. I don't usually recommend it outright, but Taunt is also very handy for Stone tanks. You'll also likely want the TP pool, though many strive w/o it. Look for IOs w/+run speed bonuses--some are more expensive than others, but w/enough of them, Granite is no problem. I also recommend Hasten to offset some of Granite's -recharge and +rech IOs as well, but those get very expensive, fast.
BTW, I took Ice Patch at 20, even before Stamina. It's that good, esp for a pre-Granite Stone tanker. Just Ice Patch & Rooted will get you further than all your other powers (again, pre-Granite, and pre-IOs). With IOs, you can cap your S/L def out of Granite and you can relegate it as a true, emergency Tier-9 power.
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This is a fairly solid assessment of the Stone/Ice combo. My only other advice is to make sure that Rooted, Earths Embrace and Health are all 3 slotted with Healing SOs at the very least. This will increase your regeneration rate and help to make Granite more of a panic button power.
I have nothing else to add except to say that even though it is a late blooming combo, Stone/Ice is definitely worth the time invested!
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
EDIT, and as a disclaimer: Stone/Ice isn't a bad combination, per se. It's just godawful slow for the first 37 levels (38, really, until you have FA slotted). I'm perfectly aware of what that combination can do, but the combination of the turd shoes of Rooted and the low-ish damage of Ice Melee until 38 would be enough to drive most people crazy.
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If you rolled that tank back before Ice Melee got buffed, you're dispensing some bad advice out of ignorance. If you deleted that tank after the buff, you made some bad power choices and never got to see the crown jewel at 38, so you're still dispensing bad advice from lack of experience.
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1. Rolled after the buffs. Wouldn't've dreamed of rolling up an Ice Melee character before then.
2. Lol @ telling me I can't build a character.
3. I've seen enough Ice Tankers (and played a friends' for a good deal of time) to know what Frozen Aura is like. It's essentially the same thing as Footstomp without Rage (incidentally, I know exactly what that's like).
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My Stone/Ice has better AoE damage output than my Fire/EM, though maybe that says more about EM's AoE damage.
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Y'think?
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It's comparable to my WP/SS too, though not quite as good. Then again, I don't spend all day in Granite, and with Ice Melee, I don't need to.
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Yes, Ice's AoE damage is probably better than SS's (due to Frost), but that's before factoring in Rage. I spent very little time in Granite on my Stone/Ice because between all the slows, Mud Pots, and Ice Patch, I didn't need it.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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EDIT, and as a disclaimer: Stone/Ice isn't a bad combination, per se. It's just godawful slow for the first 37 levels (38, really, until you have FA slotted). I'm perfectly aware of what that combination can do, but the combination of the turd shoes of Rooted and the low-ish damage of Ice Melee until 38 would be enough to drive most people crazy.
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I'm sorry, but I disagree with even that. Pots and Frost alone make Stone/Ice a far more damaging (AoE-wise) tanker combo than many, many other combos on their way to 38. What exactly does */SS do before 38? Rage + KO Blow will only get you so far. What about Axe & Mace before the two cones at the end? We agree on EM--what about Stone? Tremor hitting 10 mobs does less overall damage (DPA-wise) than Frost hitting 5 (Whirling Axe/Mace/Hands are almost as bad, though not quite), and Frost recharges faster and costs less end. Then, how about primaries w/no damage aura (excepting Shields)? If it's your contention that Stone/Ice is a painful climb to 38, I would say you'd feel the same or worse about far more than half the tanker combinations out there.
If it were your sole complaint about the slowness of Stone, esp Rooted, before IO'ing your speed back up, I'd say you have a point, though it would apply to all Stone/* tanks. Personally, I think the -movement penalty of Rooted should be halved, even if it meant adding more -speed to Granite. However, since you mention things picking up at 38 & FA, I have to think you're focusing more on the damage aspect of the power combo, so again, I disagree.
As for your seeming confidence at building tanks (or whatever), if you thought that your Stone/Ice was bad enough to delete at 35 or 36 (seriously, you couldn't wait 2-3 more levels?), I can only surmise that you either 1) did it wrong, i.e. no/underslotted Frost, Frozen Touch for holds--not damage, not slotting Pots for damage, not enough +speed IOs, etc, or 2) haven't played enough other tanker combinations to see how painful some of them are for damage pre-38 (sometimes pre-35). I'm not sure how you intended people who don't know you from Adam to interpret your initial comments on this subject otherwise.
As for Ice Melee vs. SS's AoEs, of coruse Rage puts SS on top (duh), but just. See Stars' latest charts for a comparison.
My own Edit & Disclaimer: I should point out, I would never have accused you of dispensing bad advice in the first place if you hadn't actually come out and said to reroll. If you just said that you had a bad experience with Stone/Ice, you weren't happy w/the combo, etc, I prolly would've left it alone. Then again, statements like:
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I realized exactly how bad that combo is
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...might have gotten a similar reaction out of me anyway. *shrugs*
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
This guys is for pure tanking. Damage is second priority but it's always great to have.
Anyone have any Stone/Ice builds to share. I will be tinkering with mids soon but just wanted to get a head start on where to go.
Thanks in advance!