ITF and Willpower

I have a question for someone with experience with the Willpower set. I have a lv 50 Dual Blades/Willpower scrapper. He is somewhat IO'ed, somewhat SO'ed. His regen rate is about 550%. I usually don't have much trouble in teams with him.

Yesterday, I tried the ITF with him for the first time. I died repeatedly against reds and purples. Is this typical for that powerset? I had much more trouble than I was expecting. We were unable to successfully complete and I think I want to run it again but I want to be prepared.

Thanks in advance for any help.

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Most likely, you got hit with cascading defense failure. Part of your survival as WP depends on Defense, and all the Cimerorans except the Surgeons have -Def in most of their attacks. And the Surgeons heal the others, making them stay alive longer to kill you dead-er.

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

In addition to what F_W said above, it'd be nice to have Tough on a WP character (not just on the ITF, it's a great all-around power). My SS/WP Brute does decently on the ITF but it's been a while since I've run it with him.

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My BS/WP Scrapper does fantastic on the ITF. He does have Tough, and sits at around 55% lethal resist. Also, I have Parry to help recover my lost defense when they do hit me. And regen rate doesn't really matter all that much when you've got 12-16 swords swinging into your face at once. You want to make sure you have decent defense and resists when you're facing Cimerorans.

As a side note, I have soloed the Romulus Phalanx Control Computer with my BS/WP from about 3/4 HP down to nothing after the rest of my team wiped. Not Cimerorans with their nasty swords then, but still, I think that shows that WP is not a weak set. (Although, I did pull the same stunt on my Peacebringer, but that was when the Phalanx Control was at 1/4 HP already).

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@Johnstone & @Johnstone 2
ediblePoly.com
All my characters

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question for someone with experience with the Willpower set. I have a lv 50 Dual Blades/Willpower scrapper. He is somewhat IO'ed, somewhat SO'ed. His regen rate is about 550%. I usually don't have much trouble in teams with him.

Yesterday, I tried the ITF with him for the first time. I died repeatedly against reds and purples. Is this typical for that powerset? I had much more trouble than I was expecting. We were unable to successfully complete and I think I want to run it again but I want to be prepared.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've "tanked" the ITF with my DB/WP brute. A different AT, but sort of the same problems you face. I went for +hp and +regen set bonuses and that helped my survivability a lot. I also liberally used inspirations, Strength of Will and the knockdown combinations with dual blades to keep the Romans off their feet.

I have tough, weave, about 2550 hps and a fairly decent regen rate even w/o RttC.

One nice thing you could try is to cap S/L defense. That may be a better way to go since Scrappers have less hitpoints. The Romans do debuff defense quickly, but unless you're ganged up, it should help alot.

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I've done it on my WP/Energy tanker twice. The key is having lethal defense. I've seen more tanks and scrappers go down (including myself) because they're depending on melee defense/resist rather than specifically lethal. These guys do serious lethal damage.

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--Virtue--
My 50s:
Tigra Swipe (BS/SR/Dark Scrapper)
Galena Storm (Emp/Ele/Ele Defender)
Master Tolarin (Psi/Fire/Force Blaster)

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...because they're depending on melee defense/resist rather than specifically lethal. These guys do serious lethal damage.

[/ QUOTE ]It doesn't matter whether you've got lethal defense or you've got melee defense. The game takes your higher value of the two.

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

As a Scrapper, working on your regen rate doesn't help a ton against Cimerorans. I've done an All Scrapper ITF with my Regen scrapper and the regens died far more often than the Super Reflexes guys. I had to be very careful on my timings for MoG, and pick my targets.

It's not the content, it's your foes. They're a foe group designed to make life tough for Melee, like Vanguard Sword. You have to pick and buff powers that will reduce the number of hits you will take because those hits are hard.

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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

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...because they're depending on melee defense/resist rather than specifically lethal. These guys do serious lethal damage.

[/ QUOTE ]It doesn't matter whether you've got lethal defense or you've got melee defense. The game takes your higher value of the two.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just going on my (albeit limited) experience. And that's that those who had high general defenses/resist (ie: melee) who went back and respec'd to get the same or lower level lethal did much better the second time. Of course, you also have the addition of layering defenses and experience, too.

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--Virtue--
My 50s:
Tigra Swipe (BS/SR/Dark Scrapper)
Galena Storm (Emp/Ele/Ele Defender)
Master Tolarin (Psi/Fire/Force Blaster)

[ QUOTE ]
Most likely, you got hit with cascading defense failure. Part of your survival as WP depends on Defense, and all the Cimerorans except the Surgeons have -Def in most of their attacks. And the Surgeons heal the others, making them stay alive longer to kill you dead-er.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, WP is set up so it has pretty good RES to S/L and the DEF to it is pretty miniscule. As a result, they're hitting toward your RES. Their attacks are almost all lethal, and you don't really rely on DEF for lethal. Your DEF for S/L is really only about 4%, though if you have a ton of other powers and IOs it can be more -- one of my characters has about 16%.

However, while you won't lose a significant amount of your basic mitigation, you will still end up with negative DEF scores which will mean you take damage more often. That sounds kind of confusing and contradictory, but what it comes down to is they will cut you down so that you're easier to kill, but at least you're in a better position than you would be if you were actually RELYING on that lethal defense. You still have HP, RES, and regen to fall back on.

In my experience, WP does pretty good on an ITF. It actually suffers more against the nictus groups than it does the Cims, because they do exotic damage types that you don't really have much RES to.

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Take a Dark Defender with you. They can debuff your Defense to zero, but it won't matter if they only have a 5% chance to hit you.

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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

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Take a Dark Defender with you. They can debuff your Defense to -100%, but it won't matter if they only have a 5% chance to hit you.

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Fixed

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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

Their spears are lethal, and not melee. They hurt when 20 of em hit you at once.

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Spears? What spears?
*Teleport*
*EM Pulse*

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

Thanks all. I appreciate all the advice. I have no problems with the Willpower set...I did take it all the way to 50 and I have experience with the set. It was my surprise at how much worse I did with that TF than any of the others I had run previously.

I will look at my resists when I get home. I actually was trying to max my defenses ( I had a lv 46 broadsword/super reflexes first, so I tend to value defense ). I took maneuvers and tactics to increase my defense and to make sure I didn't miss my dual blades combos.

Is it worth respec'ing to get toughness and weave? I -just- respec'ed but would do it again to max my survivability. I do not want to miss with my attacks. It messes up my entire combo if I miss even one step of the 3 attack combo.

Thanks again for all the help.

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

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Is it worth respec'ing to get toughness and weave?

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HECK YEAH!!

I have tough weave on any wp build I make. I look at it as one of the percs of the extra recovery in that set. They fit very nicely with WP and once you get them, when you detoggle those powers in the big fights you notice the diff.

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[ QUOTE ]
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Take a Dark Defender with you. They can debuff your Defense to -100%, but it won't matter if they only have a 5% chance to hit you.

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Fixed

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And make no mistake, they WILL. I did this on my invuln and I did indeed see his base defense hit -100%. If he didn't have 90% lethal resist.... it would have been bad. Well, worse.

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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

I tried holding aggro on the ITF with my WP scrapper, and I got stomped. I had 26 defense to smashing lethal, about 500 regen, and the usual ~50 res to S/L. I got stomped HARD. Will this get better once I reach my goal of 46 def to S/L? Cause seriously, it sucked.

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I will look at my resists when I get home. I actually was trying to max my defenses ( I had a lv 46 broadsword/super reflexes first, so I tend to value defense ).

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If you can, pick up a Steadfast Protection +3% Defense IO. For comparison, if you have Maneuvers triple slotted for defense that yields about 3.6% defense. So that single IO is almost as good as Maneuvers!

Regarding your Tough/Weave question, they'll help noticeably. And Weave will give nearly 6% def when slotted.

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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

Those Romans have some pretty nasty -defense debuffs, so it iis best to spread your mitigation out over different areas. Resistance is a strong point there, so maybe carry some oranges at the start and pop one when you see stuff going down hill.

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Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.

"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality

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I have a question for someone with experience with the Willpower set. I have a lv 50 Dual Blades/Willpower scrapper. He is somewhat IO'ed, somewhat SO'ed. His regen rate is about 550%. I usually don't have much trouble in teams with him.

Yesterday, I tried the ITF with him for the first time. I died repeatedly against reds and purples. Is this typical for that powerset? I had much more trouble than I was expecting. We were unable to successfully complete and I think I want to run it again but I want to be prepared.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[/ QUOTE ]This TF is the main reason I have and use strength of will. There is pretty much nothing that power cant solve. For a scrapper I can see having a hard time on the final boss if they dont move the autohit nictus but against the regular critters you should be fine with just strenght of will. No need for tough or weave on a WP.

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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, WP does pretty good on an ITF. It actually suffers more against the nictus groups than it does the Cims, because they do exotic damage types that you don't really have much RES to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's how it is for me as well. My mostly-SO'd BS/Will scrapper struggles on the ITF, but I think that's more to do with the fact my build sucks. 'cause my IO'd Elec/Will brute doesn't have any problems with the Romans.

I mean, sure, the Romans debuff defense, but for most Will users that's not a huge issue - unless you're BS or Katana, you shouldn't be relying on Defense versus Lethal damage anyway. For most Will characters, the main mitigation versus Lethal damage is resistance plus high HP and regen.

'course if you're BS or Katana, and used to having that defense up, then yes the defense failure can hurt. Same if you're using IOs to give yourself higher S/L or Melee defense numbers. But you've still got other tools to fall back on.

The Romans are tough on meleers, sure. But Willpower does reasonably well against them. The Nictus give me more problems.

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@Acyl

VIRTUE
Blue: Realpolitik, Leading Lady, Glass Lass, Superball, Alec Kazam
Red: Battery Acid, Obsolete, Bugfix

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I tried holding aggro on the ITF with my WP scrapper, and I got stomped. I had 26 defense to smashing lethal, about 500 regen, and the usual ~50 res to S/L. I got stomped HARD. Will this get better once I reach my goal of 46 def to S/L? Cause seriously, it sucked.

[/ QUOTE ]I am gonna say no because defense is pretty much worthless unless your are SR. You just dont get any meaningful defense debuff resistance with WP. Its better to focus on hitpoints/smash/lethal resistance/regen rate than it is to focus on defense. Only times I seen defense matter for non-SR is when you have stupidly high amounts like 80% to all positions then if they do debuff you down your still at or above the softcap. This is where I say having VEATs on your team is really great because they can get you there.

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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

I'd say if you can shoot for a bit more, enough over so a single debuff leaves you still over the soft cap. Basically if you are being swarmed by Cimerorans with 46% defense a single hit is likely to bring on cascade failure and the odds are with a mess of Cimes around you you are going to have the one hit land. Now boost that defense up so the single hit debuff still has you over the cap and the odds of cascade failure just took a nosedive. Further if you get hit you now hopefully have a moment to react and pop a purple to counter the debuff and help keep yourself over cap.

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This TF is the main reason I have and use strength of will.

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This TF is the only reason I use SoW.

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