Whirlwind, Hurricane, even Hand Clap
By
Aitchuu,
Posted on: 2009-05-28 22:39 in Suggestions and Ideas
That.... makes no sense.
Whirlwind, for starters, is generally disliked because it's... well, rather useless. It was, for a short time, used to get around rooting of some animations. That wasn't supposed to happen, and was fixed. It's also rather weak for a tier4 in a pool. (Then again, many powers have that issue.)
Also, powers in the game are not objects, they are not waves of force. There is nothing to get "blown back." Even if they were, why would you spinning around with your arms out prevent me from lobbing something at your feet, bouncing it along the floor, or taking a headshot at you? Why would it do *anything?* Aside from what it does now, that is, which is "Make you look silly while getting shot."
Hurricane, as mentioned, already has a decent Tohit debuff, not to mention its repel. They're already not hitting you, and having a hard time getting to you. Adding something like this means they'd gut something else in return, jack up the end cost, *something.* (Plus... why would it affect energy or electricity *at all,* honestly? Neither get 'blown around.')
Last but not least, Hand Clap is in superstrength, yes. Most mez protection powers aren't in the attack sets, but in the defense sets. For instance, my Fire/SS tank has it in Plasma Shield. The characters that *have* handclap already have that protection - well, should, I've seen a few tanks and brutes in the 30s with no clue whatsoever about their powers or the ones they've skipped. This ignores, of course, that instead of waiting for a power, you can already use or *make* a Breakfree from three other inspirations.
Just can't get behind these, myself.
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Whirlwind, for starters, is generally disliked because it's... well, rather useless. It was, for a short time, used to get around rooting of some animations. That wasn't supposed to happen, and was fixed.
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I always that that should've been exactly what it was for. It makes perfect thematical sense, it being the top power in Super Speed after all, right? Come up with some tradeoff like a hefty damage debuff, and suddenly you have a cool power.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
I think it's an interesting suggestion. I think it's thematically ok for whirlwind to offer a little non-psionic defense. For status protection, maybe just protection against immobilize. I don't think protection for hold and stun fits very well the theme of whirlwind. In addition, I can imagine that if whirlwind offers status protection, a team will consist of melee toons and all the other teammates are whirlwinds, which is a pretty hilarious scene.
For hand clap, I think most melee have status protection. So, the only useful protection provided by hand clap will be just immobilize and kb protection, which some melee power sets don't offer. Thematically probably ok, but I think if a melee toon has to rely on hand clap for the protection, he/she will keep on clapping hands for the whole mission.
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That.... makes no sense.
Whirlwind, for starters, is generally disliked because it's... well, rather useless. It was, for a short time, used to get around rooting of some animations. That wasn't supposed to happen, and was fixed. It's also rather weak for a tier4 in a pool. (Then again, many powers have that issue.)
Also, powers in the game are not objects, they are not waves of force. There is nothing to get "blown back." Even if they were, why would you spinning around with your arms out prevent me from lobbing something at your feet, bouncing it along the floor, or taking a headshot at you? Why would it do *anything?* Aside from what it does now, that is, which is "Make you look silly while getting shot."
Hurricane, as mentioned, already has a decent Tohit debuff, not to mention its repel. They're already not hitting you, and having a hard time getting to you. Adding something like this means they'd gut something else in return, jack up the end cost, *something.* (Plus... why would it affect energy or electricity *at all,* honestly? Neither get 'blown around.')
Last but not least, Hand Clap is in superstrength, yes. Most mez protection powers aren't in the attack sets, but in the defense sets. For instance, my Fire/SS tank has it in Plasma Shield. The characters that *have* handclap already have that protection - well, should, I've seen a few tanks and brutes in the 30s with no clue whatsoever about their powers or the ones they've skipped. This ignores, of course, that instead of waiting for a power, you can already use or *make* a Breakfree from three other inspirations.
Just can't get behind these, myself.
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Actually, my Earth/Thorn Dominator makes GOOD use of Whirlwind!
Between Quicsand, Earthquake, Volcanic Gasses, and Thorntrops I've got 4 GTAoE powers that enemies -can- walk out of, or be out of to begin with. I just run over to the side away from the AoE patches with Superspeed on, pop Whirlwind, and KB them into the AoE of -Def -ToHit Pulsing Foe Hold minor Damage DoT goodness.
Then I use Stone Cages on them. =-3
-Rachel-
Memphis, I think you may have missed the point of my suggestion.
Whirlwind is indeed a weak tier 4 pool power - hence my suggestion to improve it by giving it defense buff against AOE attacks and protection from the Stop powers (slow, hold, immobilize, KB, and repel). Why? Because you are spinning like a top, generating waves of outbound force that any incoming attack needs to be able to overcome. You are absolutely correct that waves of force are not a game mechanic. But I'm not talking in terms of game mechanics, rather the justification/pseudophysics behind a power such as Whirlwind. The game mechanics that I feel emulate this justification are AoE defense and Stop power protection.
I include Hurricane because it is the set-power cousin to Whirlwind. And I totally agree, why slot if for defense (which only works against AoE attacks) when you can slot for ToHit debuff (which affects Melee, Ranged, and AoE attacks)?
And again you are correct that the Defense sets contain Mez (Confuse, Fear, Placate, Sleep, Stun, and Taunt) and Stop (KB, Hold, Immobilize, Repel, Slow) power protection yet Hand Clap is in a Melee Offensive set. Exactly the point! Here is one offensive power that gives you a short term boost to those defenses. Ever seen Superman use his super breath [Hand Clap] to put out a fire [AoE attack]? And there are countless examples in the comics of super strong characters flexing their muscles [Hand Clap - in this case boosting Stop protection] to break out of a trap [Hold/Immobilize attack] or stand their ground against titanic forces [KB/repel]. Sure you could use a Breaky, and doing so probably infers the same sort of thematic heroics. I was making a suggession to improve what I find to be another underachieving power, which happens to be somewhat thematically related to Whirlwind/Hurricane.
Just call me "The Pool Guy" - cause I believe that power pools are the ultimate in powerset proliferation. Fewer powers to develop and available to all.
"ADVERBS - we define action!"
"ADVERSE - we are action!"
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Hurricane needs absolutely no buffing, and is possibly even borderline OP.
Repel, KB, -ToHit, and even more importantly, -Range (formerly the only source of it).
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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The Hand Clap change you propose doesn't make much sense. If I'm frozen solid in a block of ice, I can't perform a Hand Clap to knock the ice away in the first place. Plus, Melee ATs do not need a Break Free effect to begin with.
The only fix that Hand Clap needs is that it needs to be knockdown rather than knockback.
Never surrender! Never give up!
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Whirlwind and Hurricane and Hand Clap are all about generating a wave of force around yourself that repels or knocks back foes around you. Hurricane adds some debuff, but the other 2 are generally disliked (to put it mildly) when discussed in the forums. It seems to me that all these powers are missing one crucial element.
They all create a wave of outgoing force that toss your opponents around, but they fail to protect you from like effects directed against you. These powers should provide defense from AOE attacks and protection from Stop powers (knockback, hold, and immobilize). Most AOE attacks are in the form of storms (ice, fire, lightning clouds, etc.). The outward force of these powers should have a scattering effect on such attacks (i.e. you are less likely to get hit by such attacks - i.e. you have defense against them). Would you truly expect to be able to hurl a web grenade through hurricane force winds and have it do anything but fly apart on deployment? Knockback energy would need to pass through (overcome) these powers before affecting the target. So I suggest these powers grant AOE defense and protection to the Stop powers and can slot Defense to augment these values.
Hand Clap is not a toggle, but it does more or less the same thing. My thought is that this power should work a bit like a Break Free inspiration for this purpose when you use this power, the defense/protection effects are instantly added to whatever defense/protection you already have toggled, and lingers a few seconds as the wave of force passes. If this is creates enough protection to break a hold or immobilize power, then it does so. Since Knockback is calculated instantaneously you wouldnt be able to Hand Clap in response to a high KB attack, but you could hope to time it so the attack hits during the linger phase and thus benefit from its protection. This simulates a) using the power to disperse an AOE attack and b) using it to burst out of whatever hold or immobilize power is affecting you. And that would have the charm of giving Super Strength a power that makes it feel like something more than just super fighting. Most melee toons have anti-Stop powers, but now the Super Strong ones can take that up another notch.
Just call me "The Pool Guy" - cause I believe that power pools are the ultimate in powerset proliferation. Fewer powers to develop and available to all.
"ADVERBS - we define action!"
"ADVERSE - we are action!"