Shatterblast's Electric Armor Guide for Stalkers
By
Blastor_NA,
Posted on: 2009-04-28 21:15 in Player Guides
Why does Dark Armor make it hard to line up AS?
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
Well, if you constantly run all those auras while in Hide, the opponent is going to notice you. Effectively, it reveals you before you have time to use it. It is still quite powerful to toggle on those auras AFTER the assassin strike. That way you get the the nice bonuses from the Assassin Strike to keep you alive and the auras stack on top to just keep you going. That and it gives you a few seconds to get some valuable endurance back between battles. Dark Armor sucks up the blue juice!
Good lord don't pvp with that strategy!
Spines / Electric Armor ?
No,I was referring to the "drop toggles, AS, re-toggle" strategy.
It is my humble opinion it would not work that well in pvp.
Sorry if I derailed your guide,carry on.
[ QUOTE ]
No,I was referring to the "drop toggles, AS, re-toggle" strategy.
It is my humble opinion it would not work that well in pvp.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see. At least for zone PvP, I would keep toggles running at all times as a Spines / Dark Armor stalker. I believe the Oppressive Gloom and Cloak of Fear toggles do not stack in PvP how ever. It would be better to prefer one over the other. Either way, the 2 seconds of fear or stun can possibly extend to 4 seconds, but resists can bring them back down to 2 seconds again. I am unaware if one or the other is auto-hit in PvP, though I expect either would require an accuracy check outside of PvE. Most ranged ATs and a few pets remain vulnerable to stun. I would personally select Oppressive Gloom for zone PvP. Dark Armor might be a fantastic match-up against someone with Fire Control due to Dark Regeneration and Fire Imps.
Arena is a different style of beast unfamiliar to me where rules change per the flavor of desires.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if I derailed your guide,carry on.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am quite capable of derailing my guide succintly on my own, thank you very much. 
I have no idea what's going on in this guide and the post talking specifically about Dark Armor just helps take any merits of this guide away.
What Primary:
Get Phase shift?
WTF?? Does that have to do with the primary?
How about.. Katana works well with Electric armor because Divine Avalanche has a +def bonus to melee which will help increase your survivability, especially with Elec armor.
How about Dark, because of the -tohit gives some extra defense while having synergy with siphon life since /elec has no heal.
I'm sure there's more explanation that can be put into this.
How is elec, the hardest and easiest? I can't figure out how it would be the easiest.
How about this advice? It's not good.
[ QUOTE ]
First thing to do is to carry at least four Revive inspirations, and maybe 1 to 2 Free Will inspirations. They look light blue and purple. Not the defensive ones with a shield. Give those away!
[/ QUOTE ]
OK.. If you use an awaken when surrounded you're gonna hit the pavement quick with no break frees. There's no such thing as recovering quick without break frees. You'll need to hit some catch a breaths and respites to get back up to speed quick. Remember you've got no self heal in /elec armor, therefore when you face plant you're going to need extra time to get back to going.
Give away the purple shields?! ARe you kidding!? If you want to go back into hide the purps will make a huge difference. If you want to stick it out and scrap it out in combat, the purps will keep you alive.
I'm sorry.. But building with the plan of holding 4 awakens in your tray is a waste of 4 insp slots.
You don't even mention much about the powers about what's good or bad.
I don't even begin to understand the toggle dropping for pvp. Somehow the aura's will make you more noticeable? Without perception have you fought a stalker in pvp? Unless they get hit by your damage aura, you tend not to see them coming.
Sorry.. This guide needs lots of work..
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Also.. a resist based stalker cannot tank.
Defense based have a bonus of chances to not get hit (avoiding the alpha completely). Resist combined with low hit points = dead stalker.
Also.. Mastermind pets have higher agro numbers than the stalker..
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
[ QUOTE ]
Also.. a resist based stalker cannot tank.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, they can. Just because you haven't done it successfully doesn't mean all can't. On my Dark Melee / Electric Armor stalker, I have successfully tanked Positron twice, Lord Recluse once, Scorpion once, and Sister Psyche once all as heroes or arch-villains. Among all those, I have casually taken alpha strikes on numerous occasions and soloed many elite bosses.
I know... "Screenshots, or it didn't happen...". There are a few stories of Dark Armor stalkers doing similar with Electric Melee / Dark Armor. And Electric Melee is suppose to be the big "flavor of the moment" set for issue 14. Too bad there is so much power levelling I suppose. Also in that respect, I'm not sure how Dark Armor survives for tanking arch-villains or heroes.
[ QUOTE ]
Also.. Mastermind pets have higher agro numbers than the stalker..
[/ QUOTE ]
Challenge from the Presence pool will out-aggro mastermind pets. Further more in PvP or arch-villain hunting, a few "tanker-mind" builds use it for that reason. I somehow did it without that power. What happens without the Presence pool is that aggro will slowly peel off to other team mates, a very important part if no one heals. The purpose of leading with Assassin Strike then following with Water Spout is because of lower stalker health. For the sake of argument, I can do those two powers alone in a normal "relentless" enemy spawn mixed with bosses, lieutenants, and minions on a full 8 person team by myself. Without the need to Hibernate or Power Surge and just using Dark Melee's "single target" strength, I can wipe out several enemy spawns in a row while the rest of the entire team focuses busily somewhere else.
It's best to not use Challenge or Provoke if no heal assistance exists since a stalker doesn't qualify as well against tanking builds of the other archetypes. In this, I will agree. When it comes to a comparison, brutes, tankers, and even masterminds do the job in a style both a little easier and better. How ever, a stalker specifically built with a focus in tanking still can out-perform others who are not shaped towards that concept. Even then, defeating alpha strikes may often be the only requirement for success. 
[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what's going on in this guide and the post talking specifically about Dark Armor just helps take any merits of this guide away.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like Dark Armor, especially as a contender for PvP. I didn't write this guide in mind that everyone should pick up Electric Armor for stalkers. To put it plainly, it may not fit every individual's style. I wanted to put out a few suggestions for those with thoughts similar to your own.
[ QUOTE ]
What Primary:
Get Phase shift?
WTF?? Does that have to do with the primary?
How about.. Katana works well with Electric armor because Divine Avalanche has a +def bonus to melee which will help increase your survivability, especially with Elec armor.
[/ QUOTE ]
Phase Shift becomes more necessary if a chosen primary has no heal as well. Some dominators often rely on Phase Shift to avoid death. It's an escape ability for situations where none other works. It can also be taken at level 20 versus Hiibernate's level 44. For someone doing a straight PvP build in mind, Phase Shift may seem practical.
[ QUOTE ]
How about Dark, because of the -tohit gives some extra defense while having synergy with siphon life since /elec has no heal.
[/ QUOTE ]
In relation to Dark Melee / Dark Armor for PvE and regardless of the melee class chosen, it's suppose to be a very strong build. I mention that in case I misunderstand. Not taking a primary into account, my Electric Armor build at 50 ran 10% defense to all types with Hide suppressed. From last I read, Dark -ToHit debuffs at the moment stack upon themselves from the same power. Touch of Fear might rival Ninja Blade's Divine Avalanche if slotted properly. However, I never took the power to test that.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure there's more explanation that can be put into this.
How is elec, the hardest and easiest? I can't figure out how it would be the easiest.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can tank with it. My character dies a lot more. Siolfir's signature is a good example of what happens when Power Surge activates.
From Siolfir's siggy: Why Electric Armor is bad for Stalkers
[ QUOTE ]
How about this advice? It's not good.
[ QUOTE ]
First thing to do is to carry at least four Revive inspirations, and maybe 1 to 2 Free Will inspirations. They look light blue and purple. Not the defensive ones with a shield. Give those away!
[/ QUOTE ]
OK.. If you use an awaken when surrounded you're gonna hit the pavement quick with no break frees. There's no such thing as recovering quick without break frees. You'll need to hit some catch a breaths and respites to get back up to speed quick. Remember you've got no self heal in /elec armor, therefore when you face plant you're going to need extra time to get back to going.
Give away the purple shields?! ARe you kidding!? If you want to go back into hide the purps will make a huge difference. If you want to stick it out and scrap it out in combat, the purps will keep you alive.
[/ QUOTE ]
The oranges do better over all for a resist set. I personally think one should emphasis strengths and downplay weaknesses. I have though in moments of madness with no other inspirations available used like 8 or more purple defense inspirations when I was the only character left during a team wipe. I would survive for some odd reason and then pass out Revives to other team mates. That's another reason I like Electric Armor!
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry.. But building with the plan of holding 4 awakens in your tray is a waste of 4 insp slots.
[/ QUOTE ]
The extras are for team mates who die as an act of courtesy. I usually need only 1 or 2 for myself if I happen to be in the act of combat while Power Surge drops.
[ QUOTE ]
You don't even mention much about the powers about what's good or bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I have no desire to do a "Mid's Build."
[ QUOTE ]
I don't even begin to understand the toggle dropping for pvp. Somehow the aura's will make you more noticeable? Without perception have you fought a stalker in pvp? Unless they get hit by your damage aura, you tend not to see them coming.
[/ QUOTE ]
Those were PvE references to Dark Armor. Notice I don't mention " detoggling" in the guide. As for Perception, I did mention Tactics. While not the focus of this guide, Dark Armor has its own version.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, they can. Just because you haven't done it successfully doesn't mean all can't. On my Dark Melee / Electric Armor stalker, I have successfully tanked Positron twice, Lord Recluse once, Scorpion once, and Sister Psyche once all as heroes or arch-villains. Among all those, I have casually taken alpha strikes on numerous occasions and soloed many elite bosses.
I know... "Screenshots, or it didn't happen...". There are a few stories of Dark Armor stalkers doing similar with Electric Melee / Dark Armor. And Electric Melee is suppose to be the big "flavor of the moment" set for issue 14. Too bad there is so much power levelling I suppose. Also in that respect, I'm not sure how Dark Armor survives for tanking arch-villains or heroes.
[/ QUOTE ]
DA has the benefit of a self heal which makes a big difference when it comes to survivability. When it comes to tanking, you CAN tank, but it doesn't make you good at it. Soloing an EB also is a big difference than "tanking." EB's are much more manageable than an AV first of, and second when you're solo you are the only thing drawing agro therefore you aren't tanking. And things like placate become more useful.
Dark Melee has the benefit of a heal as well as to-hit debuffs which add a return of life as well as a defense component. This does not reflect electric armor on it's own. While there are certain sets (katana) that can add defense buffs I'd like to see an electric armor "tank" with claws, energy melee, etc. Unless your definition of tank is suck and go down immediately (I tanked that test?).
Now, as a stalker *edited* if you took every shield offered (charged armor, conductive shield, static shield, tough, and grounded) to you and 6 slotted them with level 50 resistance IO's you can make some pretty impressive numbers (64% S/l, 45% f/c, 75% energy, 38%neg, and 45%psi). But most people aren't going to do that. everything drops by about 5% on normal slotting (more if you slot less than level 50)
On top of that you've got 1204 HP at level 50 without any +hp stuff. That's not nearly enough HP to be a good tank.
So can you tank? Yes. Are you good at it? Not really. You'll go down relatively quick, and you won't hold agro on most teams.
A corruptor putting out lots of damage will pull your agro. A mastermind will pull your ago, a brute will pull your agro. You can tank the alpha strike by being the first attacker, but there's a pretty solid chance you're not going to survive the encounter. Unless you've got your tray full of insp, but then anything can "tank" with the right insp. This doesn't put Elec better than any other.
[ QUOTE ]
Challenge from the Presence pool will out-aggro mastermind pets. Further more in PvP or arch-villain hunting, a few "tanker-mind" builds use it for that reason. I somehow did it without that power. What happens without the Presence pool is that aggro will slowly peel off to other team mates, a very important part if no one heals. The purpose of leading with Assassin Strike then following with Water Spout is because of lower stalker health. For the sake of argument, I can do those two powers alone in a normal "relentless" enemy spawn mixed with bosses, lieutenants, and minions on a full 8 person team by myself. Without the need to Hibernate or Power Surge and just using Dark Melee's "single target" strength, I can wipe out several enemy spawns in a row while the rest of the entire team focuses busily somewhere else.
It's best to not use Challenge or Provoke if no heal assistance exists since a stalker doesn't qualify as well against tanking builds of the other archetypes. In this, I will agree. When it comes to a comparison, brutes, tankers, and even masterminds do the job in a style both a little easier and better. How ever, a stalker specifically built with a focus in tanking still can out-perform others who are not shaped towards that concept. Even then, defeating alpha strikes may often be the only requirement for success.
[/ QUOTE ]
Challenge will pull agro from anything (even tanks) for a short duration. I'm well aware of "tankerminding."
While your guide with the addition of water spout and hibernate add tactics to use WITH electric armor, it really doesn't say much for electric armor itself as being a good set.
I mean Shadow Meld can almost cap defenses, making electric armor tank. etc etc.
The fact is, stating that electric armor is a viable tank for a stalker is misleading to someone who doesn't know better, and needs to be warned that you'll be a better more viable "tank" with a defense based set, or at the very least something with a heal.
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
[ QUOTE ]
The oranges do better over all for a resist set. I personally think one should emphasis strengths and downplay weaknesses. I have though in moments of madness with no other inspirations available used like 8 or more purple defense inspirations when I was the only character left during a team wipe. I would survive for some odd reason and then pass out Revives to other team mates. That's another reason I like Electric Armor!
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you understand the difference between orange and purple?
Orange gives you more resistance. While orange is good at capping your resistance and making your damage tick away slower, it does nothing to keep the attacks from coming in.
Purple increases your change (which is 50% base for an even con) of avoiding an attack. it's no suprise that popping 8 purples would allow you to survive. You soft capped your defense with like 3 and wasted 5 more. so you've given your character a 95% chance of avoiding damage. That once again shows NOTHING that makes /elec good instead showing why a toon with soft capped defenses is a good thing. All /elec is doing for you with soft capped defense is reducing the blow you'll receive from the 5% that does make it through. Most of the mitigation with 8 purples popped is coming from the purples themselves.
I'd argue the purple inspirations have a better effect for a resist base set since it gives the resist base set some more opportunities to just flat out avoid the attack (less taxing on the armors).
[ QUOTE ]
The extras are for team mates who die as an act of courtesy. I usually need only 1 or 2 for myself if I happen to be in the act of combat while Power Surge drops.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well the guide seems to state you will die, so you need these. So you may want to clarify that, although Is till don't agree with planning for it. Once again that proves that /elec scrap is not a good tank.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't even mention much about the powers about what's good or bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I have no desire to do a "Mid's Build."
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't ask for a mids build, I specifically stated that your guide for going through elec armor didn't mention any pro's and cons of any powers.
For instance. Grounded. Is it needed? Or would you be more likely to just take combat jumping? Or the fact that gounded doesn't function right when fighting on a hill/slope. Conserve power and Power sink, do you need both to be effective?
Power Surge, most people don't like the final Armors that give a massive boost to whatever but then drops you to 1hp and 0 end. So it it necessary to be a "good" stalker?
[ QUOTE ]
Those were PvE references to Dark Armor. Notice I don't mention " detoggling" in the guide. As for Perception, I did mention Tactics. While not the focus of this guide, Dark Armor has its own version.
[/ QUOTE ]
Arguably anything you mention in the thread is part of your guide. Most people will read the whole thing.
The comment in post number 3 about "detoggling" is trying to explain the "Dark armor is hard to line up assasin strike"
But not clear what you're talking about.
Upon reading it 10 times or more, I'm guessing you mean cloak of fear and oppressive gloom make it hard to AS with dark armor. The armor toggles themselves do not. However based on your guide and your statements it seems to be eluding to turning off toggles to better line up an assassin strike, which really doesn't make sense PvE without a CLEAR explanation.
I think for a guide about electric armor you reference dark armor WAY too much. If truly you mean turning off CoF/OG needing to be turned off, I fail to see what that has to do with Electric armor as it doesn't have anything close to an aura of that type.
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Also while I'm on the topic of questioning your guide.. What does this mean:
[ QUOTE ]
you might really consider Dark Melee. Nothing beats it for beating a brute or tanker at tanking in my opinion, except that they steal aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]
Doesn't that mean that everything a brute or tanker has beats dark melee for tanking since they steal aggro?
You've lost me here..
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, they can. Just because you haven't done it successfully doesn't mean all can't. On my Dark Melee / Electric Armor stalker, I have successfully tanked Positron twice, Lord Recluse once, Scorpion once, and Sister Psyche once all as heroes or arch-villains. Among all those, I have casually taken alpha strikes on numerous occasions and soloed many elite bosses.
I know... "Screenshots, or it didn't happen...". There are a few stories of Dark Armor stalkers doing similar with Electric Melee / Dark Armor. And Electric Melee is suppose to be the big "flavor of the moment" set for issue 14. Too bad there is so much power levelling I suppose. Also in that respect, I'm not sure how Dark Armor survives for tanking arch-villains or heroes.
[/ QUOTE ]
DA has the benefit of a self heal which makes a big difference when it comes to survivability. When it comes to tanking, you CAN tank, but it doesn't make you good at it. Soloing an EB also is a big difference than "tanking." EB's are much more manageable than an AV first of, and second when you're solo you are the only thing drawing agro therefore you aren't tanking. And things like placate become more useful.
[/ QUOTE ]
A few who have used Electric Armor on stalkers have made the comparison of it to elite bosses. The rationale goes something like: "If I can't even solo an EB with Electric Armor, why even take it?" This guide helps to point a direction to how that goal remains achievable.
I also never took Placate. While a good power, it serves scrapping better. While other play styles may not include the idea of tanking, doing so for the better part interrupts Placate. Taking or breaking an alpha strike means randomly getting hit for the remainder of battle.
[ QUOTE ]
Dark Melee has the benefit of a heal as well as to-hit debuffs which add a return of life as well as a defense component. This does not reflect electric armor on it's own. While there are certain sets (katana) that can add defense buffs I'd like to see an electric armor "tank" with claws, energy melee, etc. Unless your definition of tank is suck and go down immediately (I tanked that test?).
[/ QUOTE ]
I have used power pool attacks, the Leviathan pool, Build Up, Placate, and Assassin Strike as the only support for Electric Armor. PvP as an environment brings that necessity. A PvP build still works in PvE. I believe ranged attacks exceed melee in PvP, though melee attacks can still bring the business. I am aware of Thunder Strike for issue 14.
A "tank build" to me is different than a "solo build," though a tanking style still works for solo. Tanking emphasizes survival over damage and accuracy. A solo build may rely on strategy.
[ QUOTE ]
Now, as a scrapper if you took every shield offered (charged armor, conductive shield, static shield, tough, and grounded) to you and 6 slotted them with level 50 resistance IO's you can make some pretty impressive numbers (64% S/l, 45% f/c, 75% energy, 38%neg, and 45%psi). But most people aren't going to do that. everything drops by about 5% on normal slotting (more if you slot less than level 50)
[/ QUOTE ]
As of issue 14, scrappers don't have Electric Armor. Let's please not make that comparison. Except for toxic resist in PvE, Electric Armor can allow a stalker to effectively rival the health of a scrapper. In PvP, it requires Power Surge. Further more, do you know of any scrapper that has reached the 75% resist cap? If you do, I would care to know how. And for the sake of argument and ignoring health amounts, scrappers and stalkers equally can raise resists the same.
Reaching those numbers are quite doable on a stalker of course, even with out Power Surge. Taking Tough and 6 slotting it and every resist-based power of Electric Armor with only the resist type of the Invention category produces good quantities. I have done so, but without Tough. It also required very frequent usage of Power Sink in PvE.
[ QUOTE ]
On top of that you've got 1204 HP at level 50 without any +hp stuff. That's not nearly enough HP to be a good tank.
[/ QUOTE ]
See the part about 75% resists to everything.
[ QUOTE ]
So can you tank? Yes. Are you good at it? Not really. You'll go down relatively quick, and you won't hold agro on most teams.
[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on play style I suppose. On regular missions, I would regularly take alpha strikes. Against single heroes or arch-villains, I would focus only on the named character. When soloing banks and such, I would have to take out the flood of spawns before engaging an elite boss. I did not poor "billions" into the build. I think I only killed one enemy of hero difficulty solo, and that was before level 40. After level 40, I came close to doing it on Scorpion. Such a build of my style would probably require Placate, Hibernate or Phase Shift, Power Surge, a travel power, and Aid Self.
[ QUOTE ]
A corruptor putting out lots of damage will pull your agro. A mastermind will pull your ago, a brute will pull your agro. You can tank the alpha strike by being the first attacker, but there's a pretty solid chance you're not going to survive the encounter. Unless you've got your tray full of insp, but then anything can "tank" with the right insp. This doesn't put Elec better than any other.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are absolutely correct if no aggro power is taken from the Presence pool. Again, Electric Armor stalkers can still make or break alpha strikes. In regards to tanking how ever, the entire concept relies on another player who heals or buffs. I have plenty of time to Hibernate usually. Tanking works on a group of +1 to +2 enemies. I will say +3 to +4 is nigh impossible. Red and purple enemies don't work so well for me, but I can still take those one on one.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Challenge from the Presence pool will out-aggro mastermind pets. Further more in PvP or arch-villain hunting, a few "tanker-mind" builds use it for that reason. I somehow did it without that power. What happens without the Presence pool is that aggro will slowly peel off to other team mates, a very important part if no one heals. The purpose of leading with Assassin Strike then following with Water Spout is because of lower stalker health. For the sake of argument, I can do those two powers alone in a normal "relentless" enemy spawn mixed with bosses, lieutenants, and minions on a full 8 person team by myself. Without the need to Hibernate or Power Surge and just using Dark Melee's "single target" strength, I can wipe out several enemy spawns in a row while the rest of the entire team focuses busily somewhere else.
It's best to not use Challenge or Provoke if no heal assistance exists since a stalker doesn't qualify as well against tanking builds of the other archetypes. In this, I will agree. When it comes to a comparison, brutes, tankers, and even masterminds do the job in a style both a little easier and better. How ever, a stalker specifically built with a focus in tanking still can out-perform others who are not shaped towards that concept. Even then, defeating alpha strikes may often be the only requirement for success.
[/ QUOTE ]
Challenge will pull agro from anything (even tanks) for a short duration. I'm well aware of "tankerminding."
While your guide with the addition of water spout and hibernate add tactics to use WITH electric armor, it really doesn't say much for electric armor itself as being a good set.
I mean Shadow Meld can almost cap defenses, making electric armor tank. etc etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
Electric Armor needs a heal or escape ability in my opinion. Shadow Meld might work in tandem with Phase Shift. How ever, I would not suggest Shadow Meld for PvP unless a stalker uses a defense set. That is a good idea. Maybe I can add that to a later version.
[ QUOTE ]
The fact is, stating that electric armor is a viable tank for a stalker is misleading to someone who doesn't know better, and needs to be warned that you'll be a better more viable "tank" with a defense based set, or at the very least something with a heal.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Taking or breaking alphas isn't really the same as tanking because aggro spreads away from the stalker. Tanking involves someone else healing and the stalker using the Presence pool. The few times it worked for me involved a lack of others taking it from me. At times, it would include just a healer and me while the rest of the team showed up a minute later or such. Also in those times, it would often be just me and the elite boss, hero, or arch-villain with no other spawns. Perhaps, team mates were dealing with spawns / ambushes. I don't know.
[ QUOTE ]
Also while I'm on the topic of questioning your guide.. What does this mean:
[ QUOTE ]
you might really consider Dark Melee. Nothing beats it for beating a brute or tanker at tanking in my opinion, except that they steal aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]
Doesn't that mean that everything a brute or tanker has beats dark melee for tanking since they steal aggro?
You've lost me here..
[/ QUOTE ]
I was making a wise crack, silly. Stalkers have no innate taunt abilities without something from Presence. I think I see a theme here.
If you don't want to tank, don't take the Presence pool! Problem solved! 
I meant stalker in my post, I had a brainfart and said scrapper.
I ran the Mids numbers with a stalker, I know there is no Electric armor for scraps.
And yes I do know a scrap that can reach the 75% resist cap.. It's called an invulnerable scrapper. It doesn't need tough or actually any resist slots in any powers (just take them) to achieve it.. Assuming you use unstoppable, which to me is the same as achieving the resist cap with power surge.
I still don't see the benefit to electric armor. You've now stated that you need people healing you and such to tank. That's fine, but why wouldn't the other stalker secondaries (specifically the ones that can avoid damage or heal themselves) be better suited for the job?
Frankly it boils down to I don't understand what the point of the guide is maybe. If I wanted to tank villain side as a melee class, I'd pick a brute (due to more hp), and think that making a stalker pick things from the presence pool, and not making the most use out of things like placate really hurts the stalker. And further electric armor doesn't in any way seem to be better at being a "tanker" if that's what your going for, than any other set.
The heal in DA makes up for the resistance difference while providing toxic damage
Energy Armor is only not as effective against psi (no defense to it), however it has a small self heal
Nin.. Well it's just awesome and has a self heal, no resistance, but avoiding damage all together with a T9 with only an endurance crash is easier to deal with.
Regen - Fantastic T9 taking away the alpha. enough regen can make the heals up often enough. DP kinda sucks since the stalker cap is so low (1606)
Super Reflexes - lacks a heal, but at least you dodge enough to more easily get off aid self, even better with dark melee
Willpower - mix of res/def/and regen.
Each one of the above seems like it'd be better at "tanking" for a team if that's what your going for.
Still it seems like a non issue, since I don't understand why anyone would build a stalker that way. And it's still certainly not a big selling point on electric armor for a stalker.
If you want to be a melee tank villain side you should go for a brute who's base hp are just shy of the stalker cap (1499 of the 1606 cap for a stalker) which I'm not sure what the cap is, but I can get up to 3107 hp without adding IO's and still not be capped. That's a HUGE difference in survivability.
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Anyway.. If you're happy with your tanking stalker, go for it, to each their own. I'm just giving fair warning out there to people that a Stalker is not a good tank replacement.
The guide needs clarification since players new to the game or electric armor may not understand that while the resistance of electric means you can take the most beating, it has no built in chances to dodge, or ways to recover from the beating it's taking which will make your scrapper feel much more squishy compared to some of the other secondaries.
And to not expect electric armor to be an awesome set for a stalker, as there are definitely better choices that are more self reliant.
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
[ QUOTE ]
I meant stalker in my post, I had a brainfart and said scrapper.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, my brain often seems to take a break to visit a restroom as well. 
[ QUOTE ]
I ran the Mids numbers with a stalker, I know there is no Electric armor for scraps.
And yes I do know a scrap that can reach the 75% resist cap.. It's called an invulnerable scrapper. It doesn't need tough or actually any resist slots in any powers (just take them) to achieve it.. Assuming you use unstoppable, which to me is the same as achieving the resist cap with power surge.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough. In fact, I was looking at that a few days ago and forgot about it. I guess I got so single-minded about stalkers. The only advantages that might come to mind for Electric Armor over Invulnerability in PvP would be the teleport resist, the Psionic resist, the 20% recharge bonus, and sometimes the Repel resist (only in Power Surge). Invulnerability I believe has healing and some defense to it. I believe Electric Armor better as an offensive PvP set. How ever, I realize you may not be arguing for Invulnerability. You answered my earlier question, which I thank you for.
[ QUOTE ]
I still don't see the benefit to electric armor. You've now stated that you need people healing you and such to tank. That's fine, but why wouldn't the other stalker secondaries (specifically the ones that can avoid damage or heal themselves) be better suited for the job?
[/ QUOTE ]
For a resist set in PvP, Electric Armor has three things going for it in my opinion: coverage for just about all resist types, reduced need for Stamina because of Conserve Power, and the 20% recharge bonus. For an ambush and flee style of stalkers, it seems to fit well. It does lack Perception without Tactics, but it can still be added without relying on Stamina.
Regeneration for PvP is supposedly the strongest for a one to one battle. I think Phase Shift,Super Speed, Hasten, Lightning Reflexes, a Stealth IO, and Stealth can present a better front for Impale, Spirit Shark, and Spirit Shark Jaws in that environment. Both require Tactics for Perception.
As for Super Speed, it too has a 20% recharge bonus in Quickness. How ever in issue 14 for PvP, resists are suppose to have improved standing among the ranks of defense sets.
[ QUOTE ]
Frankly it boils down to I don't understand what the point of the guide is maybe. If I wanted to tank villain side as a melee class, I'd pick a brute (due to more hp), and think that making a stalker pick things from the presence pool, and not making the most use out of things like placate really hurts the stalker. And further electric armor doesn't in any way seem to be better at being a "tanker" if that's what your going for, than any other set.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite correct. I guess it comes down to that I like dominators and stalkers for melee. Stalkers are closer to my style in both PvE and PvP. While any other melee type can pick up Dark Armor for similar results, I think Electric Armor wins out offensively. Electric also can get 5% to 10% higher resists in PvP depending on power choices.
[ QUOTE ]
The heal in DA makes up for the resistance difference while providing toxic damage
[/ QUOTE ]
Power Surge is a requirement for Grandville in my opinion. It is the answer to toxic sources, though other solutions work.
[ QUOTE ]
Energy Armor is only not as effective against psi (no defense to it), however it has a small self heal
[/ QUOTE ]
A good set as well with repel and teleport resists. How ever, I prefer a resist set and I like Electric's recharge bonus.
[ QUOTE ]
Nin.. Well it's just awesome and has a self heal, no resistance, but avoiding damage all together with a T9 with only an endurance crash is easier to deal with.
[/ QUOTE ]
No comment.
[ QUOTE ]
Regen - Fantastic T9 taking away the alpha. enough regen can make the heals up often enough. DP kinda sucks since the stalker cap is so low (1606)
[/ QUOTE ]
Explained above.
[ QUOTE ]
Super Reflexes - lacks a heal, but at least you dodge enough to more easily get off aid self, even better with dark melee
[/ QUOTE ]
Explained above.
[ QUOTE ]
Willpower - mix of res/def/and regen.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like the option of taking alpha strikes. I think the set's description kind of speaks for itself in that regard. Also, I like Lightning Reflexes. While only a matter of my perspective, I think that Super Strength tends to go with Willpower to cover weaknesses. I'm not sure how Electric Melee performs with it though.
[ QUOTE ]
Each one of the above seems like it'd be better at "tanking" for a team if that's what your going for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Power Surge is really the defining power in PvE for this set in regards to stalkers and the concept of tanking with them. As far as typical spawns of enemies go, I actually think Ninjitsu and Dark Armor can excel better. Surviving a 2,000 point damage blast seems to operate more efficiently with 75% resists. I believe Electric Armor does better with heroes and arch-villains.
[ QUOTE ]
Still it seems like a non issue, since I don't understand why anyone would build a stalker that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
PvP! 
[ QUOTE ]
And it's still certainly not a big selling point on electric armor for a stalker.
[/ QUOTE ]
I suppose not if you want a scrapper.
[ QUOTE ]
If you want to be a melee tank villain side you should go for a brute who's base hp are just shy of the stalker cap (1499 of the 1606 cap for a stalker) which I'm not sure what the cap is, but I can get up to 3107 hp without adding IO's and still not be capped. That's a HUGE difference in survivability.
[/ QUOTE ]
If an individual never plans to PvP, this statement can prove true. I would also like to point out that Electric Armor on a brute is a completely different beast of an opportunity. As such, I will not argue for it. Brutes have tanker caps but scrapper stats for health, defenses and resists by the way.
[Edited for clarification: Replaced "stalker" with "scrapper" on the last sentence.]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway.. If you're happy with your tanking stalker, go for it, to each their own. I'm just giving fair warning out there to people that a Stalker is not a good tank replacement.
The guide needs clarification since players new to the game or electric armor may not understand that while the resistance of electric means you can take the most beating, it has no built in chances to dodge, or ways to recover from the beating it's taking which will make your scrapper feel much more squishy compared to some of the other secondaries.
[/ QUOTE ]
Defense sets usually get suggested. Stalkers possess the lowest health among those that the sets are available. To counteract this disadvantage, stalkers have the highest stealth cap in PvE or PvP. To summarize a portion of the guide, I first recommend Dark Melee for PvE and Spines for PvP.
Assassin Strike, Hide, and to some point Placate are fundamental aspects of stalkers. In my guide, I also suggest Ninjitsu. It is an awesome set unique to stalkers only. For PvE and in balance with brutes, stalkers can act partially like brutes or tanks without taking as much aggro. In my opinion, Ninjitsu, Dark Armor, and Electric Armor perform best in that area.
[ QUOTE ]
And to not expect electric armor to be an awesome set for a stalker, as there are definitely better choices that are more self reliant.
[/ QUOTE ]
Any set can be soloed with. Using escape abilities is vital to surviving in several scenarios. Power Sink and Power Surge are the only two directly offensive abilities in the set. Of the two, Power Surge is the only one in Electric Armor that allows a form of escape. Also, it's pre-emptive nature requires a bit of planning. It has a built-in stun to buy time against almost anything.
If Electric Armor does one thing well, it would be to "buy time efficiently." Many sets do it well in various ways. Electric Armor covers every need, yet fails to recover what it loses in health. It's a set that returns the focus back to the primary because it excels at that from endurance to damage.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway.. If you're happy with your tanking stalker, go for it, to each their own. I'm just giving fair warning out there to people that a Stalker is not a good tank replacement.
The guide needs clarification since players new to the game or electric armor may not understand that while the resistance of electric means you can take the most beating, it has no built in chances to dodge, or ways to recover from the beating it's taking which will make your scrapper feel much more squishy compared to some of the other secondaries.
[/ QUOTE ]
Defense sets usually get suggested. Stalkers possess the lowest health among those that the sets are available. To counteract this disadvantage, stalkers have the highest stealth cap in PvE or PvP. To summarize a portion of the guide, I first recommend Dark Melee for PvE and Spines for PvP.
Assassin Strike, Hide, and to some point Placate are fundamental aspects of stalkers. In my guide, I also suggest Ninjitsu. It is an awesome set unique to stalkers only. For PvE and in balance with brutes, stalkers can act partially like brutes or tanks without taking as much aggro. In my opinion, Ninjitsu, Dark Armor, and Electric Armor perform best in that area.
[ QUOTE ]
And to not expect electric armor to be an awesome set for a stalker, as there are definitely better choices that are more self reliant.
[/ QUOTE ]
Any set can be soloed with. Using escape abilities is vital to surviving in several scenarios. Power Sink and Power Surge are the only two directly offensive abilities in the set. Of the two, Power Surge is the only one in Electric Armor that allows a form of escape. Also, it's pre-emptive nature requires a bit of planning. It has a built-in stun to buy time against almost anything.
If Electric Armor does one thing well, it would be to "buy time efficiently." Many sets do it well in various ways. Electric Armor covers every need, yet fails to recover what it loses in health. It's a set that returns the focus back to the primary because it excels at that from endurance to damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok I said I wouldn't come back to this thread to myself, but here I am.
And the only thing I've got to say to your last statement is:
If you're saying Electric Armor is better because of Dark Melee (which seems to be the point) you should be calling this a DA/Elec guide and go into more detail about the two synergizing together as well as the typical run down of powers that are the usual mainstay of guides.
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Well, I seem to be tanking with a Spines / Electric Armor stalker just fine. The brutes and masterminds are waiting for me to take the aggro, and my character receives its share of the healing. So that part seems to be working just fine. Yes, not just taking the alpha.
I don't understand your obsession with Dark Melee. I said before I did the same thing without using any of its core powers apart from the stalker-specific ones.
Because you reference Dark Melee numerous times previously, with some confusing oddball remarks that didn't make much sense (as pointed out previously)
As well as stated how a dark/electric can tank AV's which is largely going to be because of Siphon Life giving back HP, while debuffing to-hit. None of the other Primaries (except nin blade) are going to really help /electric when it comes to tanking av's or whatever.
Once again I'd argue whatever you're doing is NOT tanking, because i'd be willing to bet that as soon as the brutes and masterminds go in and start doing damage the agro goes away.
You were a meat shield, which is a big difference.
But it appears our definitions of tanking are substantially different.
Yours means taking damage and soaking an alpha, and having outside support to be sustained
Mine means taking damage, soaking an alpha, controlling agro to the team, and having a generally self sustainable health if the fight is drawn out. Any outside support for me just makes me even better at what I do.
Later on you elude to the Awakens being generally for you to give to your team when they face plant. 2 for yourself and 2 for other people. That's great, but unless you've agro'd too many groups or things have gotten seriously out of hand a good TANK is going to keep the agro to themselves.
And yes Presence pulls agro blah blah blah. That doesn't somehow make /elec a "better" tanking stalker set than /nin or /sr or /ea or /dark or /wp..
My Thugs/pain can tank, heck all my MM's can just by sending their minions in before the rest of the team.
My Db/Stone Brute can tank.
My elec/electric brute generally can't. Relying on powersurge is nice on an AV or whatever situation but not the way I approach every group. Anything witha DoT destroys the electric armor brute, whom has MORE hp than the stalker.
Hence why I am posting here. Anyone in the unknown about /elec armor deserves to at least understand that it's not as tanky as you make it out to be, as /elec makes even a brute rather squishy..
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Yet more Mis-Information I'd like to correct:
[ QUOTE ]
Brutes have tanker caps but stalker stats for health, defenses and resists by the way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Brutes have Tanker Resist Caps 90%
Stalkers max out at 75% (as do scrappers)
ALL At's in the same Defense softcap (45%), however for MAXIMUM possible defense a Brute/Tanker can get up to 225.05%, a stalker can only attain 200.38%
Max HP (ie Capped):
Tankers 3212.7
Scrapper 2409.5
Brute 3212.7
Stalker 1606.4
Health Regen:
Scrapper/Stalker 3000%
Brute/Tanker 2500%
So Brutes are on par with tankers for their caps, and Stalkers are on par with Scrappers for everything except health which is on par with a capped blaster, controller, defender, dominator, corruptor, or mastermind.
But even at their Base stats, Brutes are never on par with a stalker, only the resistances/defenses gained from armors are on par. Health is still higher on a brute (than even a scrapper)
http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Limits
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
More info to provide in case someone else's idea of Tanking is to be the one more enemies go after:
Brute's Threat Level: 400%
Corruptor: 100%
Dominator: 100%
Mastermind: 200%
Stalker: 200%
Soldier and Widow: 200%
If I understand the threat level's correct (I can't find the posts for it anymore).
A Corruptor would have to do over 4x more damage than the brute to snag agro.
For a Stalker to hold agro they'll need to hold about 2x the damage, which is extremely hard to do as soon as a brute builds fury..
Masterminds throw it off thanks to the pets.
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Shatterblast's Electric Armor Guide for Stalkers
Introduction:
So what we have here is some odd resist set that doesn't really fit in with the lowest health melee in existence of this game. Further more, let us consider that in PvP settings. As such, this guide will focus on both the PvE and PvP concepts around this resist-based set.
Why:
It's different. It has no perception bonus, but it offers a bonus to attack speed if anything. It's difficult to play with yet possibly the easiest at the same time. And if none of that convinces you, I love a fantastic paradox, an irony of sorts if you will.
How to Deal with Frustration:
First of all, this is no weak-willed set. It's like some kind of wild horse that's hard to tame, but if you master it, you might find something stronger than anything else. There will be dying. Not just of your opponents, but of your character as well.
First thing to do is to carry at least four Revive inspirations, and maybe 1 to 2 Free Will inspirations. They look light blue and purple. Not the defensive ones with a shield. Give those away! The idea is just get back into the fight as humanly fast and keep killing. By doing so, you don't have time to mourn the brown bar on your exp because it will be gone by the time you are done pretending to be like a brute on never-ending rage.
How ever, there are times when escape abilities are beneficial. So we must consider Phase Shift and Hibernate. Hmm, let's think of Phase Shift. If you want to PvP, you will need to pick up Stealth anyways. So do we want to consider Invisibility or Invis Other? Well, Invisibility is weaker than Hide among other reasons. Also, Invis Other might help for those times you want to get accolades so you can make your team mates Invisible while they rush to the bank. Now for Hibernate, why would we want that? Excuse me, I'm dodging a SHARK. I'll let you think on that. Hibernate and Phase Shift don't work together. Also, Phase Shift is 3 minutes for cooldown compared to Hibernate's 4.
What Primary:
Such a good question. The answer: any. If you don't know what you're doing, get Phase Shift. Problem solved. If you want PvE for goodness's sake (Or evil's. Whatever.), you might really consider Dark Melee. Nothing beats it for beating a brute or tanker at tanking in my opinion, except that they steal aggro. How dare they!
Ninja Blade is theoretically great for mixing defense with your resists. Electric Melee destroys a spawn group. Spines is the most favored set for PvP. Martial Arts can supposedly rival Dark Melee for single target DPS. Energy Melee is the favored melee set for PvP, but range seems the way to go for now. Claws seems middle-of-the-road in what it does, a sort of jack of all trades set at least in my opinion. Dual Blades is a love-it or leave-it set, but it rivals Electric Melee for its PvE output potential.
Replacements for Electric Armor:
I will advise of 3 replacements. They are Ninjitsu, Dark Armor, and Super Reflexes. Let's discuss. Ninjitsu is the set that just seems to never go wrong. If you have questions on it, ask someone else. Dark Armor's resists provide a small portion below of what Electric Armor allows. Considering PvP, Electric armor needs Tactics, Hasten, and possibly Tough. Dark Armor for PvP requires Acrobatics, Tough, and quite likely Stamina. Lastly, we have Super Reflexes. It is either loved or shunned, much like its close cousin Electric Armor. (Just don't tell them that.) How ever, it has the advantage of extreme defense along with the attack speed bonus. You get lucky, or you die. Pretty simple.
Why Electric Armor Over the "Replacements":
Ninjitsu is a wonderful tactical set. How ever, you can't tank with it. Well, maybe you can with Dark Melee, but that's some other story. Dark Armor can prove difficult to line up an Assassin Strike with. In PvP, this might not be a bad thing. With Electric Armor in PvE, you can use Assassin Strike to aid your other tanking abilities. It works nicely. I have no argument against Super Reflexes. In my opinion for PvP, you either pick it or Electric Armor for the maximum benefits of quick cycling attacks.
The Business of Tanking with a Stalker:
This usually happens when no other melee types are in your team. Stalkers have a higher aggro type than any other ranged type class. Dominators focusing on melee only, especially Electric Assault types, are the usual exception. Stalkers have no health! They can't tank! Actually, it's the abilities combined that work so well.
When leading with an Assassin Strike, a fear aura goes over the enemy spawn. I'm not sure if it still affects bosses, but if so, the duration is much shorter. This step kills the alpha. After level 40+, we can immediately use a Water Spout (not Whirlwind) to distract the group further. This move tends to save healers or fellow brutes. (At least, I think I am one.) It also gives you a little extra time to heal. We then follow up with Hibernate or Power Surge depending on the situation. Hibernate will keep aggro for a few extra moments where as Phase Shift will drop it. You usually want to hit the button about two seconds before you really want it. It's odd, considering sometimes you don't have two seconds, and the moment is NOW!!! Less than half health means you should just Hibernate. Above half means Power Surge. Also, Power Surge has a stun component that can reveal you when used too early.
What about before level 38? That's all up to your primary. I carried extra greens as necessary, but Siphon Life from Dark Melee, which comes at level 18, began the part-time tanking career. You have to pick up Provoke at a minimum for serious contemplation, but I did not. Also, Tough is very important for survival, but yet again, I did not. Tanking in my opinion strays from PvP.
Powers to Take:
And here we are at the conclusion of this guide. Such a long read it was: the journey from one word to another, syllable by syllable, space by space. Who would allow such silliness? I have no idea, but I wrote it anyway.
Take them all. You can skip Stamina with Conserve Power and Power Sink. Properly slotted, Power Sink as an auto-hit power will drain PvE spawns near you down to 40%. That may allow team mates to suck them dry. Lightning Reflexes provides a 20% recharge bonus to EVERYTHING. Grounded is another reason to not take Dark Armor, and it helps much in dealing with energy draining foes like Sappers and a few from the Carnival of Shadows I think.
How ever in PvP, I would consider not taking Power Sink. Power Surge should also be slotted for heavy accuracy if taken in that environment.