Basically good information, but I'd work on presentation a little. Give it a bit of an intro, do more than just stars for splitting up sections - you don't really know how it's organized - and somewhat more exploration into "Giving knockback a good name - using it well with a team" (for instance) might be worthwhile.
Good info though.
thanks, I usually just give the info, but yeah I suppose presentation would help make people look at it
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
Don't forget the easy-but-never-done hover over mob and knockback, which becomes knockdown.
Practical applications: you mention juggling, but some bosses are best dealt with by perma (meaning repeated) knockup (Air superiority) or knockback (single target energy blast or manipulation, or Forcefield), where the boss has no time to attack between knocks.
How about the usual storm tactic of AoE knockback and repel into corners, for clumping up mobs?
How about synergy with AoE immobs?
-- Just some ideas.
More villain than hero these days
It is not all AoE knockback that scatters in all directions. I know Archery/Explosive Arrow does not, for example. Listinng which powers do what would be a valuable part of a guide like this.
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Don't forget the easy-but-never-done hover over mob and knockback, which becomes knockdown.
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I'd forgotten that one. Most of the time I prefer knockback to knockdown, so I usually don't look for ways to turn it into knockdown.
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Practical applications: you mention juggling, but some bosses are best dealt with by perma (meaning repeated) knockup (Air superiority) or knockback (single target energy blast or manipulation, or Forcefield), where the boss has no time to attack between knocks.
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That's what I was speaking of when I mentioned juggling, actually.
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How about the usual storm tactic of AoE knockback and repel into corners, for clumping up mobs?
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A variation of delivery.
[ QUOTE ]
How about synergy with AoE immobs?
-- Just some ideas.
[/ QUOTE ]
Immobilize cancels out knockback and since I was focusing on making good use of knockback, I wasn't thinking of that, since, often it doesn't even become knockdown once some immobilizes are applied.
A list of stories would be a good idea, I might try that.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget the easy-but-never-done hover over mob and knockback, which becomes knockdown.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd forgotten that one. Most of the time I prefer knockback to knockdown, so I usually don't look for ways to turn it into knockdown.
[ QUOTE ]
Practical applications: you mention juggling, but some bosses are best dealt with by perma (meaning repeated) knockup (Air superiority) or knockback (single target energy blast or manipulation, or Forcefield), where the boss has no time to attack between knocks.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I was speaking of when I mentioned juggling, actually.
[ QUOTE ]
How about the usual storm tactic of AoE knockback and repel into corners, for clumping up mobs?
[/ QUOTE ]
A variation of delivery.
[ QUOTE ]
How about synergy with AoE immobs?
-- Just some ideas.
[/ QUOTE ]
Immobilize cancels out knockback and since I was focusing on making good use of knockback, I wasn't thinking of that, since, often it doesn't even become knockdown once some immobilizes are applied.
A list of stories would be a good idea, I might try that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tenebrous tentacleds don't have -KB, the AoE grav/ immob doesn't either. They are ideal for clumping by knockback after the immob. also, the controller AoE immobs lose the -KB component after the first 10 seconds. Again, clumping by knockback while immobilized helps the group.
Anyway, more ideas, only because I like knockback.
More villain than hero these days
Knockback Types
Knockdown: one of the more preferred forms of knockback, knockdown does not change the target's position, but merely locks him in an animation for a few seconds. This is a soft control that keeps the enemy from triggering any powers without the player having move to chase the target.
Knockback: This effect propels the enemy in a direction away from the origin point of the power. How far the enemy flies depends on the impact of the particular power and the enemy's level. This has the benefit of taking the enemy out of the fight longer than knockdown, but also results in players having to move back into position to deal with the target.
Knockup: This is basically a vertical knockback, it has a combination of the benefits of knockback and knockdown in that the end-position of the enemy is not too different from the starting position and it takes the enemy out of action much longer than simple knockdown. The downside is that knockup produces a bit more random end-position than knockback does. Though the enemy will land near the super that knocked them up, they might land to the side, in front or behind...it is hard to predict. Most of the time, however, this is a minor concern.
Repel: Repel is not really a form of knockback, but it operates similarly and is used similarly as well. Repel is a toggle effect rather than an instant effect and it basically knocksback anybody that comes in contact with it. It is possible that the targets already existent velocity affects the line and speed of their repel knockback. The benefit of repel is that enemies stay in melee range only for fractions of a second. The downside is that between the motions of the enemy and the player, that the relationship between target and point of origin changes frequently and makes the direction of knockback difficult to predict.
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Point of Origin: Knockback is applied in a straight line drawn from the point of origin (the super herself with a melee, PBAoE or cone effect...the target with a TAoE), and through the point of contact, the target. This is why AoE knockback attacks sound enemies in all directions and cone knockback attacks tend to produce a fanned spread of thrown bodies.
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Uses
Juggling: Juggling is best done with a combination of knockdown and knockup. The purpose is to keep foes off their feet. As long as they are off their feet they cannot trigger a power or other effect or move in the direction of their choice. You generally focus on one target when juggling. I have often used this with ranged characters to keep enemies slowed down and at a distance, with ranged characters, knockback works better.
Yo-Yo: A melee tactic mostly, this tactic involves continually throwing away a chosen target until you are ready to deal with him more permanently. This works best with melee-centric foes as skirmishers and snipers will simply stand up and start shooting you instead of wasting time walking back and attacking you in melee.
Delivery: A tricky tactic, but a useful one. This involves staying around the outside of the battle and using knockback to put people in the place you want them to be, usually right around the tanker or other melee types. This requires a degree of familiarity with your knockback ranges and some eyeballing of in game distances.
Scatter: This is a tactic for granting breathing space. When you want the enemy spread out wide. There is a lot of care to be had in using this tactic as normally a team prefers enemies to be clustered tightly together for the more efficient use of AoE effects. However, this is a good tactic to use when there are more enemies in the area than you want, or to clear the area around vulnerable teammates or objects that need protection (such as idols or science equipment).
Divide and Conquer: This is primarily a soloist tactic, especially for powersets that predominantly have single-target effects. The idea is to scatter enemies in one direction or another, trying to keep them all from clumping up and limiting your confrontations to one on one fights. Other controls such as fear or dizzy often are part of this tactic as those that get the most use out of it often have a small mix of control types. This involves a judicious and mixed use of Scatter and Yo-Yo tactics.
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Misuses
The misuses of knockback come in two predominant ways.
Lack of Forethought: This is the most common misuse and arrives when a power has, as a secondary effect, a degree of knockback. Good examples of this are powers such as M30 Grenade and Energy Torrent. Most of the time this happens when the Super just wants to do damage, and isnt thinking about the full impact beyond just the immediate desire to do a great deal of damage. It is the lack of thought about the knockback that is the problem. The benefits or penalties of an action when there is no thought involved are random. Whether a result is good or bad is entirely a function of luck when there is no thought before hand. The Super involved simply does not completely understand the consequences of his actions and so will tend to produce bad effects as often as or more often than good ones.
Lack of Consideration: Knockback is fun. It is immensely fun to be able to send your enemy flying across the field of battle. It can also be useful, especially if a player wants to get an enemy away from him. However, if all hes considering is his own needs, then it is very likely that he will be doing something that makes someone elses job on the team harder. This is mostly a problem with players used to soloing more than teaming. This is also more a flaw of personality than understanding.
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Territory
Edges/Cliffs: A good place for a knockback soloist to fight is near a cliff or balcony. Knocking an enemy you dont want to deal with at the moment off the cliff is a good way to force them to spend a long time trying to get back at you. The downside is that doing this will tend to mean that when they come back in, they will be in a shooting mood rather than melee one.
Walls: Given the right circumstance, a ragdolled foe can get his head or other parts of the body stuck in walls and other such terrain features, leaving them stuck for an extended time and helpless. This works best with flat, smooth walls as often what happens with cave walls and other uneven terrain is that the villain gets stuck in the wall and becomes impossible to hit with most attacks and also cant move so you cant draw him out.
Slopes: There are several surfaces in the game that a player or enemy will slide down given the right circumstances. These are excellent fodder for knockback for as long as the enemy is sliding he cannot attack just as if he were still flying. Also note that knockdown on such slopes will result in the enemy falling down the slope. This is especially useful in cases where the enemy are coming down a slope toward you and have the high ground, as even a simple knockdown effect will result in them sliding helplessly down to your feet rather than requiring you to go up to them and risk aggroing anything that might lie over the hump of the slope. This is the only time that a knockback effect will result in an enemy sliding towards the Super using the knockback.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math