Guide - Advanced Invention Enhancement Building
By
Geoff_NA,
Posted on: 2007-05-22 16:30 in The Market and Inventions
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1. IOs have diminishing returns like SOs, but a little differently. For instance, 1 LVL 45 IO gives a boost of 40.5% as the enhancement states. However, (2) LVL45 IOs yield a 79.6% boost (instead of 81%), or a loss of about .9%. Where did this go? The math for it is approximately 2 SOs would boost about 37% each (74% total - yes I know it's 38.3% for +3s and 33% for even lvl - the math works out to just about 37%), so the first 74% boost from your IOs has no loss in effect. The remaining 7% (of the 81%) yield only 85% of their power (or 7% x 85% = 5.95%), giving a total of 79.95% boost. So 2 lvl 45 IOs count as about 2.2 SOs, and that last .2 gets the usual decrease in power. The important result of this is that slotting about 2 2/3 IOs (at lvl 45, changes some based on lvl) is about the most you'd usually want to do. Beyond this you only gain 15% of the boost from the IOs. Another way to say this is at around 105% bonus for regular boost effects (Dam, ACC etc.), and at about 62% for the lower ones (Dam Res, Def, etc) you've "hit the wall" of diminishing returns where you're getting only 15% of the stated boost.
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This is just the start of Enhancement Diversification kicking in.
ED starts cutting back the bonus from Enhancements at a bonus of 75% and then really cuts it back hard at a bonus of 100%.
IOs work with ED exactly the same way all other Enhancements do.
Regards, Screwloose.
I am not young enough to know everything.
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
Global Chat Channels - Australia
[ QUOTE ]
This is just the start of Enhancement Diversification kicking in.
ED starts cutting back the bonus from Enhancements at a bonus of 75% and then really cuts it back hard at a bonus of 100%.
IOs work with ED exactly the same way all other Enhancements do.
Regards, Screwloose.
I am not young enough to know everything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it is. However, I think many people didn't think of ED power reduction starting at 75% boost but after the second SO (which ends up being true, but isn't true for IOs). So the first inclination I had was even without set enhancements I could just slot everything the same as I had before but with IOs and get better results. This is not true when more than two enhancements are used, and I thought giving people numbers in terms of numbers of IOs to use would help. If everyone already knows this then, oops, I guess I only educated myself.
The inner workings of game systems like ED are understood by very few, I think we have covered everything I know about it in just this thread, so it is worth while educating people. But I think most players find out as much as they need to know to play to the level they want to play at with a relative degree of success.
It seems to me that the Devs have been trying to make a game that you can play without having to subject every sub-system to rigorous analysis and run every part of your character through endless custom spreadsheets to make sure they are going to give a reasonable performance.
Of course if you want to have maximum performance then you need to delve a bit deeper into the nuts and bolts, which is part of what people are doing here.
I think we have just gotten past the scratching the surface part of the Inventions system and more posts like yours will take us a bit further into a better understanding of how to handle it to get what you want out of it.
Regards, Screwloose.
I am not young enough to know everything.
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
Global Chat Channels - Australia
Well stated. I wonldn't claim this is the end all be all, but it's an in dept look at one build that I'd certainly say is working well. When to post was a balance between learning and posting early enough to help others. I felt like my learning rate had slowed a lot so here's all I know.
In the future I plan to fill in some more set IOs to get more bonuses and better power boosts, add the unique IOs I mentioned (just got the Positron Unique one) and eventually upgrade the IOs I have.
Guide to Advanced Building with Invention Enhancements (IOs)
I have spent the last couple of weeks playing for about 3-4 hours a day so I thought I'd share with you what I've gleaned from the system to hopefully help you set up your own build.
IOs can not just shore up weaknesses as well as make your character into something a little different than it used to be. However, there are some simple mistakes and pitfalls you can end up in if you're not careful. I write this based on how things are today, and imagine it'll change some in the near or distant future. I'm leaving the basics to other info already posted for instance: Intro to IO crafting, and The Beginner's guide to Inventions. This is what I felt was missing.
General Advanced Building Tips
1. IOs have diminishing returns like SOs, but end up working a little differently. For instance, 1 LVL 45 IO gives a boost of 40.5% as the enhancement states. However, (2) LVL45 IOs yield a 79.6% boost (instead of 81%), or a loss of about .9%. Where did this go? The math for it is approximately 2 SOs would boost about 37% each (74% total - yes I know it's 38.3% for +3s and 33% for even lvl - the math works out to just about 37%), so the first 74% boost from your IOs has no loss in effect. The remaining 7% (of the 81%) yield only 85% of their power (or 7% x 85% = 5.95%), giving a total of 79.95% boost. So 2 lvl 45 IOs count as about 2.2 SOs, and that last .2 gets the usual decrease in power. The important result of this is that slotting about 2 2/3 IOs (at lvl 45, changes some based on lvl) is about the most you'd usually want to do. Beyond this you only gain 15% of the boost from the IOs. Another way to say this is at around 105% bonus for regular boost effects (Dam, ACC etc.), and at about 62% for the lower ones (Dam Res, Def, etc) you've "hit the wall" of diminishing returns where you're getting only 15% of the stated boost.
2. The one huge overlooked advantage of set IOs is their ability to give better boosts (without the set bonuses even) than even generic IOs. If I slot two different set Dam/Acc IOs, I get about 24% boost (at lvl 45) in both areas from each enhancement, or 48% total in each of Dam and Acc, instead of just an ACC and a Dam giving 40.5% and 40.5% each. This can save slots or boost overal power.
3. Some complete IO sets aren't very practicle for most builds, but using 2-3 of them has value. Take the Dam Res sets. They mostly have boosts to Endurance Reduction, Damage Resist, and Recharge Time. For most damage resist powers, either you don't care about recharge time (Toggles you always leave on) or you care about recharge but not Endurance cost (MOG, Power Surge, etc.). This doesn't make the IO sets useless, but you may only want 2-3 of a given type per power, as the set bonuses aren't worth the waste of slots.
4. Mixing and matching different IO sets is a good idea at times. Yes, you often want one set to get a good compliment of set powers, but sometimes combining two sets gives a better combination of boost, a special enhancement gives more value than the extra boost, or getting a complete set is nearly impossible or not useful.
5. There are key cutoff points on salvage at lvl 25 and 40 where after this the rare recipies require the higher level rare salvage, some of which is quite expensive (up to 3-4Million, occasionally needing rare 2 pieces). So in buying recipies, if you exceed these cutoff points, check that you can afford the salvage needed. You may want to buy just at/below the cutoff for some sets until you get more Inf. Also, here's a handy Guide to Salvage.
6. The unique IOs mostly don't change in power based on level, so looking below your level range is a good idea (they're cheaper to build too).
7. When buying or selling, unless the item is relatively inexpensive, look at the history for the item, as well as the history of a few levels around it (for level specific items) before pricing or bidding. You may find for some rare items that for the one you're selling only one has been sold and went for 50,000, but if you look at a level range around it that they've been going for 1,000,000. So maybe price at 750,000 or even well about 1M. The opposite could be true as well, explaining why somebody priced something much higher than the history shows.
Buy low - Aim at the lower end of the price range for items that have a history of more than 3 items sold that day.
Sell high - Just not so high your item will sit there forever. Salvage drops often enough its not likely to fluctuate too far out of a certain range, so don't aim for higer than the top previous price unless you know it often goes for more.
Be patient - Leave a bid up overnight for that salvage at the lower end of the price range. Don't just look at items at your level, but one to three above what you're at now and sometimes below your level. Why? Because unless you have many millions of Inf available to you, you'll find some things are far too expensive for you. Most of the in demand stuff (at lvl 40+) has been going for about 300,000 to 3 Million (as I write this anywya), and where possible you'll need to stay around the 300-600,000 area, because overall build costs can easily be 25 Million with 100 Mil a very real possibility.
But not too patient - Some extremely rare items drop so infrequently that maybe it's worth paying 5 or even 15 Million for them (if you can afford it), as you may have to wait weeks to see it again.
My Example:
I have been working on an Elec/Elec Brute (collecting IOs from LVL 39-42 now) during this period. It's not complete, but I'd say closer to done than not. For those who are unfamiliar with them, Elec Brutes have higher resistance than most brutes, but no self-heal. They have no Tox resistance, and somewhat lesser Neg resistance, but do have solid Psi resist (though more would be good). They have a MOG-like click power that gives huge damage resist to all but Psi for 90 seconds that can be run with all other shields, that can easily cap all resistances but PSI and possibly Neg (depending on slotting). There's also a recharge buff power in the build that brings Hasten fairly close to Perma as well as good endurance gain/mod powers.
So the key areas to improve are Tox and Heal/Health (Heal to counter the lack of heal and to buff all resistance). Then Neg, Psi, Recharge (to make Hasten Perma), ACC, Dam, and End gain all add value.
Total Set and special bonuses:
- Psi Resist +2.5% (+2.5% @ lvl 43 from 2nd complete Crushing Impact set, and possibly another 3% with a unique +Psi resist IO)
- Neg Engergy Resist + 9.39%
- Maximum Health + 4.51%
- Health Regen + 42%
- Endurance Recovery + 2.5% (2.5% more if/when I get another Imperv Armor End/Dam resist piece)
- Damage + 3 %
- Recharge + 10% (w another 6.25% from Positron's Blast in a few lvls. Hasten is close to perma already, so this should just about do it. I may get another unique IO to boost still further if needed (see below).
- Immobilization Time - 4.4%
- Chance of Lethal in my AoE Smash
- (+5% chance of buildup w Mu Lightning attack @ lvl 43)
- Accuracy + 23% (w up to 14% more if I get another Scirroco's or two - nice for Blackwand/Sands of Mu and -ACC enemies. Note, I thought if I had enough +ACC I wouldn't need to slot ACC in any powers, but since the +ACC comes from attacks, I think you'll find this won't work for most builds (possibly with Tactics)
Sadly I have been unable to get any Tox resist going. It's generally the last set power for Dam Res sets, and as I said previously, for those sets, having all 5-6 IOs of a set is a waste of slots. I challange anyone to come up with a good option for me (more because I want to make sure I'm not missing anything than because I'm certain it can't be done).
LVL 1: Charged Brawl - 6 slots w all Crushing Impact IOs
LVL 1: Charged Armor - 4 slots w 1 Impervium Armor (End/Rech/Res), 1 End Red, 2 Dam Res IOs
LVL 2: Lightning Field - 6 slots w 2 Scirroco's D. (ACC/Dam, Dam/End), 1 End Red, 1 Acc, 2 Dam IOs
LVL 4: Conductive Shield - 4 slots w 1 End Red, 3 Dam Res (I'll likely put in a couple Impervium armor later)
LVL 6: Boxing - 6 slots w Crushing Impact IOs (Actually, 1 is lvl 46 so I have an empty slot waiting for it)
LVL 8: Thunderstrike - 6 slots w 5 Scirocco (Acc/Dam, Dam/End, Dam/Rech, Acc/Rech, Chance of Lethal), 1 Multistrike (Dam/End/Rech)
LVL 10: Hurdle - 1 slot w Leap IO
LVL 12: Static Shield - 4 slots w 2 Impervium A. (1 Res/Rech/End, 1 Res/End), 2 Dam Res
LVL 14: Tough - 4 slots w 1 End Red IO, 3 Dam Res IOs
LVL 16: Health - 3 slots w Heal IOs
LVL 18: Hasten - 3 slots w Rech IOs
LVL 20: Stamina - 3 slots w End Mod IO
LVL 22: Lightning Reflexes - 1 slot w Run Spd IO
LVL 24: Grounded - 1 slot w Dam Res IO
LVL 26: Build Up - 1 slot w Rech IO
LVL 28: Weave - 1 slot w End Redux, 1 Slot Defense (2 more coming @ LVL43, with set IOs likely)
LVL 30: Super Speed - 1 slot w End Redux IO
LVL 32: Lightning Rod - 6 slots w 3 Sciroccos (Acc/Dam, Dam/Rech, Acc/Rech), 1 Multistrike (Dam/End/Rech) 1 Dam IO, 1 End IO
LVL 35: Power Sink - 3 slots 1 End Modification, 2 Recharge IOs
LVL 38: Power Surge - 4 slots w 1 Rech, 1 Aegis (Res/Rech), 1 Titanium Coating (Res/Rech), 1 Reactive Armor (Res/Rech)
LVL 41: Mu Lightning - 4 slots w Devastation (Acc/Dam/Rech, Acc/Dam, Acc/Dam/Rech, Dam/End) w a "Decimation, Chance for Buildup" ready for slotting when I hit LVL 43. There's no point completing the Dev set. I don't need the last two set bonuses or the chance for hold much and this power needs no more recharge help. I may put a Dam/End IO in mostly to hit the wall on damage dealt.
All these IOs are lvl 40 or higher except 1 lvl 39 Crushing Impact where I had trouble getting a 2nd higer lvl one, or the Scirroco Chance for Lethal and the Decimation IOs at around LVL 25. It doesn't matter for these two, they're not power is not level specific. In fact they were a lot cheaper to buy and assemble at this level as the salvage was low cost. These two each cost me less than 1M Inf to buy and make.
I also have 4 of Positron's Blast recipies waiting for my lvl 44 power. I will collect more of these as I can (but no hurry as I am already covered through lvl 45 and I am following the mantra of buy low sell high). When I have 6 of these (LVL 46 hopefully), I'll have my first +Tox Res boost.
Explanation on the more exotic slotting:
- PBAoEs - I used Multistrikes in the attacks because, for one thing, the more different effects given by a power, the greater the total boost given (for instance the triple Multis at LVL 45 gives a total of 60.9 Boost!!). Additionally, I wanted extra Recharge that Scirocco's wouldn't give. For the Drip damage (Lightning Field), the Rech IOs from the Scirocco set were pointless, but again I wanted the Health Bonus and the advantage that multi-effect IOs give.
- Dam Resist Powers - Most of my shields are toggles, but Power Surge is a click power. For it I used the three different Res/Rech set IOs to cap my resistances and hit the diminishing returns wall for recharge rate by only using 4 slots. In other powers I found some value in putting impervium armors to get the +End bonus even though they cap at lvl 40 because if you slot with 4 (1 End red, 3 Res) you're deep into diminishing returns for the Dam Resist, but with 3 (1 End Red, 2 Dam Res) you don't get 3SOs worth of resistance so there was a little freedom to get creative with the slotting. I intend to add more set IOs as I can.
- I have considered some of the other special enhancements. Entropic Chaos has a heal, but at 10% chance for 5% heal, this doesn't seem that great to me and was selling for about 3 Mil inf. I think this price will come down as people see how little impact this has.
More unique IOs my build could use and why I don't have them
- Luck of the Gambler - Recharge: This one I want, but it's very pricy and I'm close to Perma Haste already.
- Aegis Psi Resistance/Mez resist - I want this one too, but not as badly as others. I have about 40% Psi resist already with solid if not phenominal Mez resist, so while I like this, I can't see paying the 7.5+ Mill its going for right now. Likewise with Impervious Skin Mez Reduction at 4+ Mil.
Some of you who know prices well may be wondering how a lvl 42 got the millions needed to build this. No I don't have LVL 50s with Millions of Inf to pass around. The buy low sell high has helped me get all my Crushing Impacts for 500K Inf or less (though that might be harder now, prices seem higher). I've targeted mostly magic enemies to get higer value salvage drops (Pangean Soil, Prophecy, Magical Conspiracy, Essence of the Furies, etc. are all magic drops). Also, the Sciroccos are all either lvl 40, or carefully selected ones, all of which use less expensive salvage. Lastly, somebody bought a salvage "Essence of the Furies" from me for 12 Mil Inf. I assume they meant to bid 1.2 Mil - BTW: This is easy to do so be careful with your 0's. However, I have 8 Mil left, so it hasn't been the deciding factor, and no, I haven't had any valuable costume drops : (
I hope this helped and good luck with your builds. Also, if you have a more creative, smarter, or just plain weird build, I'd love to see them.