HOW TO KILL AV's, GIANT MONSTERS, AND MORE NASTIES
By
Black_Specter,
Posted on: 2007-04-09 19:25 in Player Guides
Interesting guide, but misleading in several respects. First off, the reason Lingering Radiation is so powerful in debuffing AV's is not the strength or recharge of its -regen, but that it is currently non-resistable. AV's and GM's currently have extremely high resistance to debuffs, scaling from 43% at lvl 2 to 94% at lvl 50. The various EMP powers are also non-resistable, but are of less utility due to their long recharge. There are also some -regen powers available villain side that you failed to mention, including Heat Exhaustion, Benumb, Envenom, Assault Bot Plasma Blast, and Power Surge, some of which are also currently non-resistable.
All this will change with I9. If you read the patch notes:
[ QUOTE ]
Many powers with regeneration debuff effects are now resistible by non-player entities. Powers effected are:
Radiation Emissions 'Lingering Radiation' and 'EM Pulse'
Poisons 'Envenom'
Robotics Assault Bot 'Plasma Blast' and 'Dual Plasma Blast'
Electric Armor 'Power Surge'
Trick Arrow 'EMP Arrow'
Electrical Master 'EM Pulse'
Archvillain and Giant Monster class entities have had their global debuff resistances reduced. This should offset the changes made to -Regen powers and lead to more diverse team composition for certain encounters.
[/ QUOTE ]
As you can see, Lingering Radiation will no longer be the "uber" -regen power. AV/GM debuff resistance will now scale from 60% at lvl 1 to 85% at lvl 50. Other power sets will now be of value in fighting AV's/GM's.
Also, Shivans do not have -regen, just massive damage.
Oh wow. Wow.
Thanks for the info, Hudsonsmith. That info does indeed make this guide completely worthless as soon as I9 hits.
I've never heard of debuff resistance. Didn't even know it existed. Wow. Are the mechanics of this known? Is there a guide out there somewhere that explains how debuff and debuff resistance interact to produce certain results?
Way back in I5 my dark defender used to slap Darkest Night (a ToHit debuff) on a boss and stand right next to him in every battle. I figured it was the safest place to be due to my debuff. But now that I know critters have debuff resistance... this kind of makes things dicey.
Level 50s:
BlackSpectre, Dark Defender (Guardian)
Thorin, Invul/Axe Tank (Justice)
Volcano Juice, Fire/Stone Tank
Professor ?, Mind/FF Controller
Stone Forge, Stone/Fire Tank
There are a couple of threads in the Training Room and some of the other forums talking about the change to AV's/GM's. There is a post in this thread with the old and new values for comparison.
There are also combat modifiers for lieutenants, bosses and AV's such that they resist tohit debuffs by 10%, 20% and 30% respectively (modified by level).
I'm not aware of a guide that goes into detail on the mechanics, but my understanding is that a 50% debuff applied against 85% resistance would result in a 7.5% debuff.
Most bosses don't significantly resist debuffs, so you don't have to worry about that. Depending on how the Devs coded a given mob, however, if an object (NPC or player) has defense/damage resistance, that defense/damage resistance will usually resist debuffs to that defense/damage resistance. For example, if you have 20% smashing resistance and get hit by a resistance debuff, you'll resist 20% of that debuff as it pertains to smashing damage.
AV/GMs worked a bit differently. In addition to the above, they also had a global debuff resist, as hudsonsmith mentioned. This made debuffs much less effective. Contrary to your original post, you can in fact power through an AV with just damage and resist debuffs, it's just very difficult to do so. -Regen powers end up acting as a force multiplier, as the limited effect of -resist powers and raw damage end up stronger since the target can no longer heal back as quickly.
As hudsonsmith mentioned, this will change slightly in I9. For Rads, the changes are mostly a wash, as the nerf to -regen is mostly countered by the increased utility of their debuffs. For other powersets with debuffs but not significant -regen, this should make taking down hard targets easier.
Specter, the debuff resistance is mainly a AV/GM issue. Bosses and Lts resist debuffs a bit (that is nothing new) but your own experience tells you that debuffs like Darkest Night are still enormously effective even on bosses.
I just didn't want you to get the idea that bosses were now going to be tougher for debuffers. They have the same smattering of debuff resistance that they have had in the past and the loss of irresistable debuffs isn't going to really make much of a difference when fighting them since they can't resist debuffs too much anyway. I guess it may make them marginally harder to fight if you like to using Lingering Rad on them since now they will be to resist it a little but on a boss it's just not that big a deal.
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Pooka Pete
Thanks for the info, guys!
Well, I just went through the numbers (thanks for that link, Hudsonsmith!), and if all the reports are accurate that the changes are a wash and there are no appreciable net changes in the performance of Rads against Avs, then really Rads are still the AV killer kings... and not because of the lack of resistance to -regen debuffs.
The amount of buff that other debuffer powers get because of the reduction in global debuff resistance is extremely small. Not nearly enough to make other powersets equal to the AV killing ability of Rads.
I'm still a little uncertain about all this, though, and still have 2 questions... will AVs' global debuff resistance actually affect -regen debuffs, or will -regen debuff be treated seperately as their own resistance stat as I now suspect? And how much -regen debuff resistance will AVs and GMs be given?
Level 50s:
BlackSpectre, Dark Defender (Guardian)
Thorin, Invul/Axe Tank (Justice)
Volcano Juice, Fire/Stone Tank
Professor ?, Mind/FF Controller
Stone Forge, Stone/Fire Tank
As indicated in the post I linked above, AV debuff resistance affects runspeed, recharge, endurance, tohit, defense, perception, regeneration and recovery.
And not to take anything away from rad, do not underestimate the AV killing ability of kin and dark. This week on the live servers my grav/kin troller trioed Infernal (with 2 scrappers) and Shadowhunter (with a scrapper and a kin defender).
HOW TO KILL AV's, GIANT MONSTERS, AND OTHER REALLY TOUGH NASTIES OR THE SIGNIFICANCE OF DEBUFFING REGENERATION RATES
Welcome again fans and foes! Let me start off by telling you a little story Once upon a time there was a game update called Issue 7. Among other things, this update significantly enhanced Arch-villain's regeneration rates (approx. +1100%). This huge increase made it IMPOSSIBLE to complete any mission that included an AV without a specialized archetype of hero on the team who also happened to have the right powers. How did it end? Well, the buff to AV regeneration rates was quickly reduced to about +300%, which made AVs tougher but not undefeatable. However, it was this event that pointed out to many of us the enormous significance of regeneration rates in the game.
During this time, we experimented with various powers on these uber AVs for ways to defeat them. Damage boosting powers such as Fulcrum Shift and Vengeance were tried, but failed. Damage resistance reducing powers such as Enervating Field, Disruption Field, and Freezing Rain were tried, but failed. And even combinations of the two tactics proved unsuccessful. No ArchType or powerset could dent the uber AVs no powerset, that is, except the Radiation Emission primary for Defenders and Controllers. The key here was the Rad's regeneration rate reducing (debuffing) powers, in particular Lingering Radiation. With the help of Radiation defenders and controllers, the uber AVs could actually be defeated! Since then, Radiation defenders and controllers have been appropriately dubbed the game's "arch-villain killers."
Other powersets that had regeneration rate debuffing capabilities were tried, and although their powers did have an impact, the effects of the other powers wore off too quickly and the AVs were able to regenerate their full health back within seconds. Even Dark defenders, who come in second in regen debuffing ability, were unsuccessful. The power, Lingering Radiation, is unique in the game in that it has both a large regen debuff (-500%) and a short enough recharge time to be made almost perma. No other regen debuff power comes close to it.
The point of this story is not to laud the virtues of Radiation defenders and controllers, but rather to bring to light the significance of having a regeneration rate debuffer on the team. There are other powersets that can debuff regen rates, and although not as good as a radiation defender at the task, they will certainly let you put a dent in an AV or Giant monster where otherwise you were powerless. These powersets are:
1) Radiation Emission defenders and controllers
2) Dark Miasma defenders
3) Kinetics defenders and controllers
4) Trick Arrow defenders and controllers
5) Blasters with the EMP Pulse epic power
The following is a list of all powers and hero archetypes in COH that debuff regeneration rates. The stats are taken from the City of Data web site.
Powers that reduce the REGENERATION RATE of Foes:
Lingering Radiation Radiation Defenders and Controllers
[-500% Regen, dur. 30 secs, recharge 90 secs (46 secs w/3 recharge SOs)]
EM Pulse Radiation Defenders and Controllers
[-1000% Regen, dur. 15 secs, recharge 300 secs (154 secs w/3 recharge SOs)]
Howling Twilight Dark Miasma Defenders
[-500% Regen, dur. 30 secs, recharge 180 secs (93 secs w/3 recharge SOs)]
Twilight Grasp Dark Miasma Defenders
[-50% Regen, dur. 20 secs, recharge 8 secs (4.1 secs w/3 recharge SOs)]
Transfusion Kinetics Defenders and Controllers
[-50% Regen, dur. 20 secs, recharge 8 secs (4.1 secs w/3 recharge SOs)]
EMP Arrow Trick Arrow Defenders and Controllers
[-1000% Regen, dur. 15 secs, recharge 300 secs (154 secs w/3 recharge SOs)]
EM Pulse Blasters (Electrical Mastery epic power pool)
[-1000% Regen, dur. 15 secs, recharge 300 secs (154 secs w/3 recharge SOs)]
It's possible, although I do not have any data on it, that Shivans debuff regeneration rates as well.
Well, that's it Fans and Foes! I hope you've found this guide useful.
Level 50s:
BlackSpectre, Dark Defender (Guardian)
Thorin, Invul/Axe Tank (Justice)
Volcano Juice, Fire/Stone Tank
Professor ?, Mind/FF Controller
Stone Forge, Stone/Fire Tank