thugs are known for awesome AoE and singling out targets is probably not taking much advantage of that. soloing missions for me on invince isnt even challenging post 32. i dont even need to use my secondary on my bots/dark; just stomp through killing everything in my way. from what i hear thugs are just as powerful and probably dont need to be played like a glass cannon.
also unfortunatley the epics arent available to 50 villians =(
Just so you know the defense on Shadow Fall isn't even worth slotting. Its something like 5% boost slotted with two SOs like you have it. I slot mine 3 resist 1 end redux and am quite happy with it
A couple updates as I progress. Up to level 41 now and just took the first Ghost Widow power pool.
1) I took the first comment above to heart and have been trying to play more aggressively. It works well up to a point, but my thugs (especially the arsonist) are fragile enough that groups that are too large or spaces that are too open tend to get them killed. I balance by thining out some of the minions until the group is managable.
2) I've started droping tar patch in front of me and summoning into the patch. This is particularly useful for things that like to run, like wailers. It also makes it harder for longbow flamethrowers to get off an alpha strike.
3) I've switched to invincible for my missions. Bigger bosses and more xp for mission completion seem to be yeilding higher returns.
4) I have Dark Servant 6 slotted now, with 3 for recharge rate. The other 3 are for hold, immobilize and to-hit debuff. I'm able to keep DS active almost all of the time now, and something seems to always be held by it, waiting for the thugs to kill it. I find DS seems to be a good healer too, and often heals thugs while I'm still looking for the injured one.
5) I took the Ghost Widow defense buff. Not sure yet how well it works, but it does use a good bit of endurance. I've just slotted it with an endurance reducer and will probably put all 3 of the next slots into it for 2 more end reduction and a defense buff.
6) Based on the other post above I switched Shadow Fall to 3 defense buffs and 1 damage resist. I might drop one slot on SF if I respec.
Interesting to see a gude to my favourite MM combo. I previouslyhave a Robots7Traps at 45, my Thugs/Dark is only at 27 yet but so far proving great fun.
I am a blastermind with my thugs/dark. That means I shoot as much as I can, in consort with my thugs. I ove in under stealth to a good angle and open up, mixing in geals as I go. The Bruider is so far a waste of space and mostly work as a distuptor; it is me and my lesser thugs that do the real damage.
I only have Shadow Falla and the heal from my secondary.
So far,this has been great fun and works very well. I don't care if it is a power build or not. It is fast enough and safe enough for me and works well on teams, even if the role is a bit unusual - don't ask me to tank, and if you want healing you better stand in my gang.
Thanks for the comment.
When I was at 27 I was doing the same thing. I had all the pistol powers and was standing there as a 7th thug. It was when I hit 32 and took black hole that I realized that I needed to respec and did some real research into the dark power set to see what the possibilities were. I had only taken heal and shadow fall before.
But I took the plunge to see how it would work out letting my thugs do all the work while I did all the support, and was amazed by the results. This is by no means the only way to play a Thug/Dark MM, but it is a very viable way to do it.
Yesterday was a good example of how this build/playstyle works. There is a spot in St. Martial with a high spawn rate of dense groups for freakshow, generally about 10 a group. I run into the group and toss a fear into the center. This leaves maybe 4 still fighting and they hit me. Surpremacy spreads the damage out and my Dark Servant usually heals us all immediately. My next move is the lay down the tar patch at my feet, then I stand and turn around looking for targets that need attention. If a Lt is being ignored, I will stun it and direct my minions to kill it. I also watch their health and either use an inspiration on them or stand next to them and use the dark heal power. Through all this my health barely moves, even though I am in the middle of this huge mob. It is a pretty cool feeling. Since they are freakshow, the only real problem is having to turn toggles back on if they land a sleep on me. This method works even when there are 5 Lts and a Boss in the spawn.
Anyway, there are lots of ways to play this character set. This is the one that works for me.
BTW, the bruiser gets really really good once you have the 2nd upgrade. If you've ever been hit by a rock from an Ogre, you know what he is able to do.
I've updated this guide to version 3. You can find the new guide here:
Peg's Guide to Thugs/Dark - Version 3
I appreciate all of the guides that people have taken the time to write. Digging through those guides has given me many ideas that I have incorporated in my characters, and also steered me away from choices I shouldnt make. In the holiday spirit of giving something back, I thought I would post a guide to the build for my thugs mastermind, since she is proving to be so successful.
I call this the Thugs/Dark Controller.
I dont call it a mastermind, because it plays much more like a controller than a MM. Albeit a controller with an insanely high alpha strike capability. The play for this build is to choose a specific target to kill, while keeping that target and the rest of the mob out of the action.
This build is designed for soloing, especially soloing missions where the difficulty is set to 4 or 5. I generally play at level 4 because extra minions are better than more bosses, for me. Yeah, it is pathetic, but my friends list is empty. I got tired of trying to find groups, or standing around for 30 minutes waiting for someone to sell a couple enhancements and fly in from 3 zones away. This build doesnt need anyone to help, and I have no difficulty taking out purple bosses, including Family and Longbow bosses.
The Strategy
The basic concept is pretty simple. You enter into a mission and call in all your thugs. You buff them, then turn on Assault, Tactics and Shadow Fall, then head into the mission.
Once you see a mob, you select a minion from the mob and teleport it right in front of you. Your thugs will alpha strike the minion and kill it in about 2 seconds. At about the same time your TP Foe power will be back up and you teleport the next minion in to be killed.
When all of the minions have been killed, you can now go for the lieutenants and bosses. Move forward and toss your fear cone at the remaining group. Now that they are all standing around quaking in fear, you lay down a Tar Patch to keep them from running off. Finally, you cast Darkest Night on the one of the group, who you will try to save for last (he isnt going to last long in any case). Now that the lts/bosses are under your control and debuffed, select a target and tell your thugs to kill it. Sit back, wait for it to die, select the next target and tell them to kill that one. Rinse and repeat.
Some bosses and AVs have lots of hit points or other powers that make them difficult, such as the Family gravity controller bosses. This is where Gang War and Dark Servant come into play. You bring these 11 additional pets into the mix to keep the boss with too many targets to deal with. This leaves your main 6 thugs with the time needed to knock it off. I have just added Petrifying Gaze into the build and expect it to help with the bosses, but I dont know how it will play yet.
I find at level 38 that I can run a single standard newspaper mission in about 15-20 minutes, taking my time to go slow and take out all of the enemies in the mission.
The Build
Peg is a level 38 Thug/Dark MM. Her last 4 powers will likely be 3 from the Ghost Widow pool and one from leadership. Some of the slotting is not complete, and Ill explain what I think I am going to do when discussing those powers.
In my opinion, this build requires a respec to do it. When you respec, you will be not taking any of your personal pistol powers. I cant see getting to level 28 without those powers, so I wouldnt try to build this from scratch this way.
Primary Powers
Call Thugs 3 thugs 2 levels below you, one of which is an arsonist (sort of a fire blaster). They arent your main fire power, but they are a good chunk of your team. They are also good for taking fire, though the arsonist is a little fragile. He is the one you will have to bring back the most.
Slots 4 slots: 1 Accuracy, 3 Damage
Equip Thugs This is the first of your two equip powers. All 6 thugs get one of these cast on them. They last until a thug dies.
Slots 1 slot: 1 Endurance reduction
Call Enforcer 2 thugs, 1 level below you. These are ranged specialists carrying Uzis, and they deal a lot of damage with a quick recycle time. They also have powers from the leadership pool, which you will be stacking with your own leadership pool selections.
Slots 6 slots: 1 Accuracy, 3 Damage, 1 Defense Debuff, 1 Tohit Buff
Call Bruiser 1 Thug who looks like a brute, but plays more like a Troll Grovard. His alpha strike is a big rock that he throws that hits for about 150 points of damage, after all buffs and enhancements. He also does lots of knockbacks, stuns, and disorients.
Slots 5 slots: 1 Accuracy, 3 Damage, 1 Hold Duration (you could also chose knockback distance or disorient duration, depending on the effect you want)
Upgrade Equipment This is your second equip power, and is cast on all 6 thugs.
Slots 1 slot: 1 Endurance reduction (You might use an attack rate here instead, since waiting for the recharge while buffing your thugs can be slow)
Gang War This brings in 10 additional thugs all wielding baseball bats. You cant control them the way you do the other thugs. They will target the victim (usually I choose a boss) that was selected when you activated the power, then after it is dead, will attack anything else in range. After everything is dead, they all run up to you and stand around waiting to follow you somewhere else. Sometimes I will run through other mobs just to give them something else to attack before they go away. I find that they last long enough to take on two separate bosses usually, if the bosses are in nearby rooms from each other. These guys are particularly useful for dealing with the Hero on mayhem missions. I usually run out of time, because I never get the time bonus for escaping jail after the hero defeats me.
Slots 1 slot: 1 Attack rate (If I have extra slots later I will likely add an Accuracy and 3 Damage, but since I use this power usually at the end of the mission only, it isnt a high priority)
Note that I have selected none of the pistol powers. You wont need them, your thugs will do the work for you, while you sit back and watch.
Secondary Powers
This is your job. They are the firepower, you are controlling the battle. You can put that shiny pistol up on the mantle now, you wont need it any longer.
Twilight Grasp This is your heal power, and the heal power for your thugs. Generally, you will watch the health bars, select something that happens to still be alive, run to the thugs that need healing and cast this power. Hopefully, you will get the power off before the victim dies (danged efficient thuggies). With enhancements at level 38, this power will hit everything in your range for about 350 points of healing. Since the enemy alpha strike is usually no more than 100 or so, you can teleport in a minion to be your heal source. You target, teleport, hit the TG power then watch all the health bars jump to full while your victim keels over filled with 50 bullet holes.
Slots 4 slots: 1 Accuracy, 3 Heal
Tar Patch This is a power I use a bit, but would prefer to get a different power. However with this build you have no choice but to take Tar Patch or one of the pistol powers. Since you dont want a pistol, Tar Patch it is. It is a reasonably good power, but I find that victims either die so fast as to not really need it, or they run out of the patch eventually. If I get a chance to respec again, I might change the enhancement load to enhance slow.
Slots 3 slots: 3 Attack Rate increase (This is done because some of the Dark guides recommended doing this to allow it to be recast when it expires. Trouble is that the battle is long over before then. Using these slots elsewhere might be a better choice)
Darkest Night This is one of your 4 primary powers that you will use all the time. This will seriously debuff the attack ability of one enemy and all of the ones around him. You get to point and laugh at the silly boss as his bolts and rocks sail harmlessly over your head. The worst problem with this power is the target will die so fast that unless you put the insults on a macro, you will be still typing while he is lying on the ground as a corpse.
Slots 5 slots: 3 Tohit Debuff, 2 Endurance reduction
Shadow Fall After you buff your thugs, you are going to turn this power on and leave it on until the end of the mission. It is going to give you and your thugs three important benefits. You will be partially invisible, allowing you to get well within range to use your fear cone without being attacked. It will give you defensive buffs and it will give you damage reduction. Between Shadow Fall and the Supremacy MM power, you will see red hits of 150 barely move your green health bar. That is if they can hit you at all.
Slots 6 slots: 2 Endurance reduction, 2 Defense buff, 2 Damage reduction
Fearsome Stare This is your primary controller power. Use Shadow Fall to get close, then hit the mob with this fear cone. They will stand there as long as you need to put any additional debuffs on them you want. The only downside is that when your arsonist hits them with a fireball, they are all going to wake up and try to shoot back before going back into the fear stance. I find that I am usually casting this or Twilight Grasp during the battle to heal thugs or keep enemies under control.
Slots 6 slots: 1 Accuracy, 2 Fear duration, 3 Attack rate
Petrifying gaze This is a power I just picked up and am not sure how it will play yet. I originally had chosen Howling Twilight, but since I am soloing (and HT doesnt work for pets) I never used it. I am going to try to use it when I have more than one Lt to deal with. I will petrify one of them and let the thugs kill the other one.
Slots 1 slot (so far): 1 Attack rate (Hold duration will probably not be needed here, but I might add an Accuracy buff)
Dark Servant The DS gives you a 7th pet, but it isnt permanent the way the thugs are. I tend to not bother with it unless I have a difficult situation at the end of a mission. Then I will use DS along with Gang War to increase the mayhem.
Slots 1 slot (so far): 1 Attack rate (Lots of choices here for additional enhancements)
Pool Powers
Leadership I use both assault and tactics to increase accuracy and damage. Both are 3 slotted with endurance reduction to allow me to keep them running all the time. I might add the defense power under leadership, if I dont take all 4 of the Ghost Widow pool powers. I might also add a couple more slots to tactics and put Tohit buffs into them. Not that my thugs and I miss too often as it is. Note that Tactics stacks with the Tactics that your enforcers cast. You will see very very few of those white Miss messages floating over heads.
Teleport TP isnt my favorite travel power, but TP Foe is needed for this build. TP is given 3 slots with 2 range enhancements and an endurance reduction. TP Foe gets 5 slots with 1 Accuracy, 1 Range, and 3 Attack rates. The attack rate enhancements are crucial in order to keep your rhythm going. You will almost always be ready to teleport the next foe after your thugs finish doing their thing.
Fitness I have the swift with a single slot for Run speed, Health with 2 slots for Heal, and Stamina with 2 slots for Endurance modification. I tend to not use travel powers in a mission, so having swift helps a lot. You also dont want to be getting to far out in front of your thugs.
Macros and Binds
There are a number of binds that I find to be critical to making this build work. All of these are from the available bind guides. Here are the ones that I think make a difference:
RBUTTON "+forward$$+mouse_look"
This allows me to move using the mouse only. Hold down the right mouse button to run forward, while steering by moving the mouse left and right.
ALT+RBUTTON "-mouse_look"
If I need to look at something on the user interface that requires a right click, this lets me hold down the Alt key and get there.
CTRL+LBUTTON "powexec_name Teleport"
Point your mouse way out into the distance and hold down the control key. Then you keep hitting the left mouse button to do a maximum distance teleport. With range enhancement I travel 150 feet with each click and can get there faster than the other travel powers, usually.
SHIFT+LBUTTON "local Summoning $target $$powexec_name Teleport Foe"
Target an enemy. Hold down the shift key and hit the left mouse button. Your selected target will teleport right in front of you and your thugs will alpha strike it. Watch for the white aura in the distance to know you succeeded, then you can either hit your key for All Attack or your key for Twilight Grasp, depending on if you want to use if for a group heal or not.
Q "target_custom_next mypet"
This allows the Q key to be used to target the thugs in order. I use this mostly when summoning and equipping them. Hit Q, hit the keys for the 2 equip powers, rinse and repeat 5 times.
So that is it, so far this build has worked wonderfully, and its been awhile since Ive incurred debt. If you want to ask questions, please look me up. I play Peg on the Justice server, trying slowly to push my way up to get my first level 50. God I hope the Warshades can be unlocked by villains *grin*.