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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Justice Blues View Post
    Actually, the fact the Devs are against it means everything. They are the ones in charge. If they don't want it, even if every single player does want it, it doesn't happen. Since the number of players that want something like this is far less than 100%, and the Devs have said it would take huge amounts of work and code re-writing, and no one has actually presented an argument that it would actually be a good thing for the game, I am not going to hold my breath that it will ever happen. Thank goodness.
    It means nothing, absolutely positively nothing with respect to folks posting comments about what they believe could be improvements. No argument is going to change that absolute fact.

    They are not in charge of player opinions.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
    What?

    What on earth are you talking about?

    This is one of the most successful, highest-population MMOs of all time. Just because it isn't WOW doesn'6t mean it's BAD.
    LOL.

    You can't possibly be serious.
  3. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
    I'm mostly speaking of my experience of people outside of this forum.

    As for here, people who express discontent seem mostly focused (lately) on the effect incarnate powers have on balance, the incarnate grind itself, the lore focus on praetorians, the game being dumbed down, the move to F2P... Among many many other things.

    Again, not saying I agree (or disagree, for that matter ) with any or all of it, just naming stuff I've seen.

    To try to find some common ground, I do think crafting in this game is somewhat clunky and could handle to be better (although I also think it could be much worse). I just don't see it as an often mentioned reason for disliking the game. The general sentiment seems to be neutral, it's there, without being especially good or bad.
    Again, fair enough. I won't try and argue the point, folks can chalk it up to either a baseless argument or just no need to argue, since it's just my opinion based on what I've seen after all.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
    If you can't be bothered to actually list an explicit post or article, don't expect anyone to bother giving any credence to your claims. Especially when making claims that seem to come from left field, it's on the person claiming to present a compelling case. You have not done so - you've appealed to invisible authorities and asked everyone else to go find them. Not interested.
    It's not that I can't be bothered. It's that the very nature of posting in this forum, or any forum for that matter is by definition a vehicle that does not require anyone to give credence for that post to exist.

    But it's ok that your not interested. That is, after all, how it works.
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
    Considering that you have zero proof that a change like this would bring in droves of players, I think that most of your argument is irrelevant. Going free to play should bring in a lot of players, does that invalidate your argument that this would be needed to get more players?

    The fact is that it takes very little time to get up to the levels you're suggesting. At that point, it is fairly simple to just reroll the character if you don't want it anymore, or would prefer another set at that level. Even then, you've got no guarantee that the new powerset would meet your expectations anyways, so then you're back to square one.

    The Devs have worked hard to make this an alt-friendly game. Why would they completely change that direction now, when there's no evidence that it would increase revenues?
    It's a fair argument. No, I can't prove it would bring in subscribers.

    What I can prove is that what they have now has not.

    Now, what part of what they have now has not brought in the numbers? Who can say. I certainly can't. It's all speculation of course. But I'd bet a gold coin SOMETHING, or any number of things in this game have caused folks to walk on to greener pastures in their eyes.

    I can't offer proof, I can only offer a different viewpoint than the ones presented in this forum over these many years that the game has underperformed.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
    While I don't necessarily disagree with some of your other points, I have to say I have never seen this particular argument before your post.

    The reasons most often mentioned for not liking the game seem to be repetitiveness, lack of end game, lack of depth.

    (Please don't jump on me for typing this, people ; I'm not saying I agree with any of it, it's just stuff I see other people saying).
    Fair enough. Are you speaking here or outside the forum?
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
    Cite?
    Google.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
    Even then, I'd vote against it. Many powersets don't come into their own by level 10, or sometimes even level 20, before you put SOs into the powers. Giving a powerset respec before even giving the powerset a fair shake doesn't seem right.

    Plus, there's the fact that the Devs themselves are against something like this, and have stated so multiple times.
    Fair enough to the first comment. The fact that the devs are against it means next to nothing, my response to the second. There not exactly beating down the doors to subscribe to this game...perhaps the devs are in error in their judgment.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
    Hmm. I don't think the game's reputation is suffering from a plague, maybe the affliction is personal?

    Seriously, I've not heard much of any complaints about making new alts. Sure, people joke about alt-itis, but I've never understood that to mean they were generally unhappy with that. I *know* I for one have said that as if it were a curse, but I love having boatloads of alts. It's obviously only speculation on my part, but I suspect that many (most maybe) feel the same.

    So, until such time as I believe that the game really has a plague on it's reputation based on having to create a new alt, I'll dismiss your idea as being work intended to solve a problem that just doesn't exist. And if it does exist for you, than I'll still dismiss it as work needed to solve a problem that isn't very far-reaching, and has a pretty decent alternative solution already available..

    If floods of people chime in saying that the biggest problem with the game is a weak respec system, and that they'd never create new alts if only they could more easily respec existing alts into something different, I may well reverse my position, but I'd still be personally happy with the respecs as they currently exist, but I'd be willing to see them made more robust if it served to up the enjoyment of a majority of the players and didn't cause other, unintended negative effects.

    Again, fair enough to the first, though I think you meant a sarcastic dig somehow. Didn't quite understand the point however.

    I really can't argue against the rest. It's your opinion, it's mine...it's how it works.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
    The dreaded "delete, reroll" was a problem IN 2004. When I started this game there was a guide I used, something like "BS/Inv for the first 20 levels" to get you to Stamina without having to do the dreaded delete, reroll.

    ... because there was no such thing as a respec and people were making serious mistakes.

    People were rerolling FIFTIES because they'd made some mistakes. And back then it took 300 hours to get to fifty, if you were really pushing hard.

    As far as balance and fun? I agree with whoever responded: no balance IS no fun. I remember the good old days when Dark Armor was a choice between "get beaten to death" and "get stunned, then beaten to death". (you had to choose between running armors. Either use your mez protection, OR your smash/lethal defense, OR your energy defense.) I remember when Invuln was ten times tougher than Ice, and two hundred times tougher than Blasters. Looking over at the person next to you and thinking what a chump you were at the starting screen... that doesn't happen nearly as much any more. Yeah, an En/Fire blaster still sucks, but it's not like the "Same damage, twice as long to fire the power off" problem it had compared to Ice/ in the old days.

    As far as "not wanting to lose free respecs and free costume changes": Oh, please. I just took a level 50, recolored her powers, changed every single thing on the costume and it cost 2.5 million inf. Or, to put it another way, "just under two Rare salvage." Short-term petty greed is not an argument the Devs will give much respect to.

    As far as "total rebuild at level 10"? What? Level 10 takes THREE HOURS AT MOST. If you're solo and you don't know what you're doing, it still takes THREE HOURS. (Under an hour when you've been playing a while.) If you don't have an hour to invest, MMOs are probably not the right hobby for you.
    Ah, now this should be interesting. I assume by your comment "oh please" you consider the statement that I would prefer not to lose my time invested as perhaps....unreasonable? petty? childish? lazy? Any or all?

    Short term petty greed. That is your synopsis. Luckily for me that means next to nothing. Also luckily for me you do not determine what has or does not have merit in this forum. So I suppose all is fair in that respect.

    Since you asked what, I'll clarify. I do have an hour to invest. You do not determine what is the best hobby for me. But thanks for demonstrating some concern as to my leisure activities and attempting some modicum of internet wit in the process.

    My suggestion, thankfully, still stands. That is, of course, unless you know where they are hiding the millions of players you seem to believe are filling this game with revenue.....
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
    Your impressions are your impressions and as such they can't be wrong. That _is_ what the game looked like to you. BUT:

    * It's painfully easy to make "enough inf for starters" with even the most basic marketing tactics. (Almost all my characters are financially independent from level 1, unless I'm really impatient. Then again I like this s***. ) In one hour of fetching and carrying, you can make enough to afford your SO's for your entire career and I can explain how to do that in 5 minutes. And that's using almost the WORST way to market there is.

    * The invention system is deliberately tied to the market system and it doesn't work like other games that way. Storage is deliberately scarce, for instance, so you have to "store" stuff by selling it and buying it back when you need it. [usually at a considerable profit.] You may hate that idea, but they did it on purpose and for a reason. You cannot be a rock and an island in this game unless you use SO's.

    * They do sell one-time Wentporters. If you go to Steel Canyon the university is one block over in one direction, and the Vault is a block or two in the other. They also sell a variety of craftable temp powers, including jetpacks, med packs, resurrector packs, etc.

    * Supergroups frequently have vaults set up right next to their crafting tables. As in "can have both windows open at once."

    * There are crafting tables in SG's, in Vanguard bases, and in almost all Supergroups; sometimes your fellow heroes will pop 'em out right in the middle of Wentworth's, although it is a huge amount of work to get Field Crafter.

    * There have been at least two situations where having level 20 IO's made a really big difference in play for me.

    This game is not like other games. There's no Holy Trinity. Until you hit level 50 there's no "Bind on pickup" loot. One hero can often beat up ten or twenty high-con enemies at once. Money is available very easily in ridiculous amounts (with a little knowledge.) If you judge it by "how well it works like other games" you'll hate it.
    Certainly a sensible response. But it's a bit like a "the reasons folks should like the Aztech van design" argument. Despite many great points made (sensible ones) as well as many innovations in that design, the design absolutely flopped.

    This game is not exactly flourishing. One of the biggest complaints? Crafting. One of the biggest comments? Most leave before level 30.

    Is there a connection? Perhaps not. But I found it to be one of the most frustrating and counter intuitive parts of the game. So I assumed (and could be wrong of course) it was contributing to the games bad rep.

    And this game has one.

    IMO some of the aspects of this game are fabulous. Others are obtuse. Early crafting (and the drops and recipes) are one of the latter.

    Now, certainly there may be reasons why they did this. There may even be examples of how early crafting was good for some folks, or created revenue by selling it off. But lets look at a few possible things...

    1) Your lost early on in the crafting game.

    2) You get lots of salvage, recipes, etc. and have no idea how they work.

    3) You probably sell it all off, wondering why it's dropping in the first place since you cant seem to make anything.

    4) You find out perhaps that inventory is not slots, its TOTAL ITEMS and constantly run out of space early on.

    5) Later on you perhaps discover you sold something you needed, once you learn how to craft.


    This may or may not leave a bad taste in your mouth for the entire system. It did in my case, and almost caused me to drop the game....again.


    Now, if the goal is to ensure that the title is viewed as niche, then by all means it should perhaps remain as it is. But...if this is truly a problem (it may not be...it's just my assumption after all) and there is a desire to INCREASE overall appeal...well.

    I think perhaps something needs to be done. I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.
  10. I like the base idea. I have as of yet to form a supergroup or join one.

    Seems to me, however, something like your superbase idea could be offered for new players as a temporary item to get them started on crafting...perhaps some kind of portal to a crafting hub.
  11. I have to add, and REALLY emphasize the need for putting ALL of the mobs on the mission map. At the very least the last 5 or 6 should show, but why not all of them.

    Better yet, display threat level with colored arrowheads as well.
  12. Ok, so how about you set the secondary rechoice to before level 30? Or even better...

    Given one total rebuild at level 10 (primary and secondary choices) and one secondary rechoice at level 20.

    It's still early...by this time most folks will realize that they don't like the build they have and can change it without need for the dreaded "delete, reroll" that this game's reputation is plagued with at the moment.

    Were not really talking about a change of archetype here...that would require a reroll and that is understandable. We are talking about a powerset choice mistake rectified fairly early in the game.
  13. Remember, I say this from the perspective of a new player. Yes, I understand you can get mats from the market and AE. But that really isn't what I meant. There should be somewhere to BUY the mats you need other than the market, like some kind of vendor...grant it it would be for the very low level mats, but still.

    And yes, it does seem that money early on is hard to come by, though once you make a toon or two and can mail to yourself that makes making new toon easier (it took me a bit to figure out I could mail extra stuff and influence to myself, giving me access to it on my other toons.).

    I still feel that early on crafting isn't really needed, and the mats and such shouldn't even drop until much later...you can just get enhancements instead.

    If I were to go even further I would say that things like free costume changes and certain temporary powers (like rocket packs) should be easy to make early on if any crafting is offered at all. Add to that temporary Auras to wet ones whistle for those things, as well as teleports to things like your bank and the nearest quartermaster.

    Finally I would have things like cars, motorcycles and the like craftable (temporary of course) as well as custom weapons. Again, to tempt folks to either buy the permanent ones from the store or sub to VIP.
  14. The crafting in this game, early on, is a bit counter-intuitive in design. I'd like to put forth what I see as it's flaws, and what I think should be done to correct it.

    Remember...this is from a new player perspective. First impressions are lasting ones.

    That said...

    1) Items are counted individually, your not given slots.

    Materials should stack and count as one item. Almost every game on the market has it this way. The fact that this game does not causes an entire host of problems that are not necessary.

    2) Drops for crafting come to early in the game, intro also comes too early.

    Crafting is pretty dismal in this game EARLY ON and next to useless sub 30. It should not even be introduced IMO, nor should materials drop prior to level 30 IMO.

    3) Benches are in one spot, Vaults are too far from benches, recipes only count what is on you, not what you own (what is in your bank).

    This is a big pet peve. This is not the only game that is like this, but other games at least offer a bit more with respect to crafting and storage. This game is pretty limited with both. Not good to throw in running back and forth to try and get the right mats.

    4) Only source for mats is mobs.

    This is a big one. The only way you can get mats is by killing mobs. In almost every other game on the market there are other ways to get mats. Sub 30 this is probably not the best way to do it, later it isn't an issue.


    REMEMBER...we are talking about sub 30 crafting now. Not crafting after 30, where not only does it benefit the player more, players tend to find ways at that point to deal with shortcomings.

    We are talking about first impressions.


    Now, my primary suggestion would be to remove any clue to crafting from the early game, prior to perhaps level 25, including mats. No mat drops or references to crafting before level 25.

    Naturally you would still have enhancements and the like that drop for income or use.

    Save that, I would ask that items stacks be counted as one item (or make it 30 slots instead of 30 items), you have the ability to craft in more areas besides the academy and recipes count items you have in your bank as on your person.

    Thanks for reading.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
    Early, early in game history, there were no archetypes. You picked from what were closer to power *pools* than power sets.

    Result? Players went one of two ways: Gimped characters (I believe the typical example was someone who made an invulnerable flier. Yes, they could fly. And they were invulnerable. That was it. No attacks.) or tankmages that trivialized the game.

    So we ended up with ATs.

    Not to mention that, yes, it does help with balance.
    Ok, but I would have to ask as to what the harm would be in, say, being able to change the secondary power set at least.

    I guess I should be more clear. You are not allowed to change your original Archetype and I am fine with that. What I feel the game should allow (at least once) is the choice to change your powerset choices you were given when you created your character.

    I have one character for instance that is Scrapper (which I do not need to change, or see any reason to do so), the powerset choices are Martial Arts and Regeneration, which I do not find very entertaining. Changing to Dark armor or Super reflexes, IMO, are much more fun combinations. But there is no way to do that.

    I don't see how changing the powersets you choose at character creation, at least once in the life of the character, would present balance issues.

    I can see, however, how open choice may present a problem in that respect.
  16. It is also required that it actually works. And don't try to present the silly notion that it does because you managed to find the threads.

    I know how to use a forum, but thanks for the sarcasm at any rate.

    I'd like to thank the others for their comments to answer the question. I still feel they could greatly expand the available powersets, and find some way to allow folks to change their SECONDARY choice at least if they find the choice was lame later on...ESPECIALLY for returning characters. I have characters that are three years old that would be great to change the secondary choice since it was a bad choice back then. I hate the idea of losing the time on the character (free respecs and costume changes) just because the secondary choice was a bad one.
  17. Here is one issue I have with this title. It seems that you have complete freedom when creating mobs for missions with respect to the pairing of power sets. A massive, even dizzying array of combinations is available, and it seems to me this is the way the main game should have been.

    I am guessing the idea of balance plays into powerset match restrictions. I can understand this, but rechoosing your secondary choice is not allowed. Only respeccing the points.

    It seems to me that having that kind of freedom, or at least allowing an early rechoice of the secondary power sets would serve to allow players the opportunity to correct mistakes in the build, especially considering the freedom when creating mobs.

    However, I recognize this could create balance issues in the game (and perhaps that is why the system is set up as it is now) and other games have had open system with obvious problems.

    My question would then be this...Why do the restrictions on power sets in character creation exist, and why can't you change your original power set choice when respeccing?

    Thanks for your input.
  18. I appreciate all of the comments and the discussion, please keep them coming, even if they criticize my opinion. All are welcome.

    That said, I must point out that I feel the mob placement, despite whatever sensible reasons for the random spawn may exist is one of the largest flaws of the system.

    I can't even count the amount of times I have had to scour a map, once for almost a half hour trying to find the last two mobs. The map only displays the location of a final mob or item, so more than one mob or item left and you are playing treasure hunt.

    This is extremely boring, and detracts from many otherwise fantastic missions.

    We either need to have more spawn location control OR the map should display ALL mobs required for the quest. The latter would remove the problem and still allow random spawning.

    You can add checkboxes by a list of objectives on the map screen to allow display of objectives on the map to be toggled on and off to avoid clutter. You could also simply limit the display to the last 5 or 6 mobs or items you have to find to avoid making it too easy, if that is a problem.

    I would prefer to see a full list however, and think in lieu of removing random spawning it is the best and most prudent solution.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tubbius View Post
    I wouldn't say that the AE is strictly useful for grinding. It's possible to tell some fantastic stories AND to manipulate objectives so that one can present a linear, easy to follow, story-based approach. Feel free to check out my PENGUIN (29205) and Hammer and Sickle of Paragon City (351727) for a couple of examples where I tried to make arcs that were focused on dedicated storytelling. Are they perfect? Not entirely, but are they GOOD? I should hope so.
    Thanks, I'll check them out. And perhaps I shouldn't have inferred that that was the only purpose...only that it was not a surprise what it is getting used for mostly based on it's design.

    Certainly one could find innovative ways to work around the restrictions, but does that encourage folks to use the tool to actually create missions?

    There are other games that have mission creators. Though there are problems as well, they are not as prevalent as here, but the designs are VERY different.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Garielle View Post
    One thing to keep in mind. Two of the mechanics you mention: the dialog NPCs inside of missions as well as fights where the opponent stops fighting and you talk to them are both relatively new mechanics to the game as a whole. Neither of these existed in CoH at all, even the content designed by the developers themselves, until Going Rogue came out.

    It is possible that these are things that may be added to Mission Architect at some point. I am reminded of the loading screen tip "You can't do that in Mission Architect...yet". At the same time, the popularity of the Mission Architect System as an actual storytelling tool is much smaller than I imagine they hoped for. The vast majority of those who have used AE have used it mainly for creating missions which could be easily farmed for maximum reward.

    I created a few storyarcs myself, but lost interest because very few people actually play through real "stories" in the AE. Sad, but true. Wonderful tool, and very well implemented by the developers, but (ab)used very poorly by the player base.

    Given the lack of interest in the system for its intended purpose, I don't know if they will devote a lot of resources to introducing new mechanics to the system. Yes, they have continued to add maps as well as NPC groups as they add them to the game, but that is much different than taking the time to code in mechanics.

    Still, I know that the OCR team has been making an effort to breath some life back into the "Devs Choice" program, so it's not outside the realm of possibility if they see a change to how the system is used, and see an increased interest in using it as it was originally intended.
    See, and again I feel this may be symptomatic of a flawed mission creator in the first place. When you place a mission creator that creates only grind missions in a game that is replete with grind missions you will get...well...grind missions created.

    I understand the tools may not have existed when the option was presented, naturally. But I think it was a bit of lack of foresight on the devs part, if they are truly surprised that folks use the system to grind, considering that's really the only kind of mission you can create.

    I believe (does not mean I am correct of course) that the system itself, in it's current state, is the reason why it is abused. It does not appeal to those that would actually WRITE missions. It only appeals to those that wish to create missions for reward.

    Because that's pretty much all you can do. If I wanted to create a mission that had NO reward other than the gameplay itself I couldn't do so, even if the idea was appealing or had merit.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xzero45 View Post
    There is an Empty enemy group you can set, actually. Use that enemy group and you'll solve problems 3 and 4. As to the rest, I'm sure it's just a matter of not wanting to dedicate the time to a system that exists almost purely as a farming tool.

    I love the AE, and love making fun stories with it. But you have to admit, the AE community is small, with most people only seeing it as a way to get fast xp/drops. Just like PvP and Bases, it's a niche community that I'm sure the devs just don't feel they should put all their resources into, instead focusing on other, more popular things.
    Thanks for the tip, I'll give that a shot. If it works (I'm sure it will) I'll remove those complaints.

    One point I would make is that if you create a mission creator that creates nothing but kill and grind missions, folks will probably only create and run kill and grind missions. A good way to prevent, or at least discourage that practice would have been to create a real mission creation tool in the first place.

    ...Not to mention the fact that adding the interactive trigger scripting would benefit the regular game as well, as missions could be created with much more depth than what is in the game at present.
  22. Ok, this is going to be pretty harsh, so before I begin let me say up front that it is fantastic that folks can create missions, and that you offer so many options. I also understand some restrictions are in place to prevent farming.

    That said, I have some complaints I want to share.

    First, the idea that there is no dialog option. This is a big one in my opinion. It's difficult for me to understand why a system, whereby one would give certain responses and have certain outcomes based on that response.

    Perhaps it's fear of language? If that is the case, it is very disappointing, but I suppose I would have to accept that. It's a real killer with respect to the system, as it makes the missions rather bland.

    Note, if you can add dialog for descriptions and comments, I don't see the difference with interactive dialog.


    Second, the lack of ability to place mobs. I remember someone telling me that this is a farming issue. With minions and lieutenants though? I could see this restriction for bosses, but why lower toons? I can't even place minions that I designate as bosses (to create single encounters)...obviously the rewards are low based on the difficulty status.


    Third, the idea that you have to fill the map with trash, IE spawned mob groups, with no control over how many spawn. I don't have the ability to limit this, or just set them all to patrol. Instead I have groups of mobs standing around doing nothing, which really detracts from the storylines.


    Fourth, the idea that every boss, no matter the difficulty level or status has to have a minion. This is ridiculous IMO. It seems that the concept of a single opponent is lost in this system. If you had to fill the area with trash mobs, why then have minions for bosses that are forced?

    Note, I understand minions for a BOSS status mob. But not a minion or lieutenant that is placed as a boss so it can be a single encounter, as easy as that might be.


    Fifth, the lack of ability to have other win scenarios when killing bosses other than actually killing them...like they stop fighting, or become unattackable at a certain health level. What if you want a Matrix sparring program kind of encounter? What if you want to have someone that fights until defeat is inevitable? Then they give up, making some kind of comment.

    This is also where lack of dialog, if this option was added as a win scenario would be a bad thing...it would be great to defeat the mob and then strike up a conversation as an option.


    Sixth, the lack of ability to create your own custom maps, even if it was just modular. Also, no ability to place things like environment barriers and the like. There are certainly lots of maps, but essentially you can only create smash and kill missions with the maps available, which tends to make the missions very hollow.

    Where are the options that would allow you to create a bank robbery? How about vandals ransacking an office? People to save and talk to to get information on what to do next.



    On a side note, I find it a bit amusing that creating bosses allows you to put together fun combination of abilities, but actual character creation does not allow this. A good example is a character that has dual swords but also has martial arts. It seems to me that if enemy mobs should be able to mix together interesting combinations we should be able to as well.


    I may add more later as I discover them, but I have to say that they above items were VERY disappointing. I expected more options, more powerful tools to use when creating missions.

    Thank you for your time.