mistformsquirrel

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Really? I didn't have that problem <;_;> What server are you on? I'm on Aundair... I don't play as much as some people, so its totally possible I've missed it.

... So why aren't people over their griping about bugs? <;_;> I still mostly seem the same "There' not enough to do!" whine...

People hurt my poor little brain <~.~>;

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I was on Khyber (aka Lagistan) before I quit in disgust. There are serious bug issues, like the repeating repeating crossbow bug (a bug that gets fixed and reintroduced seemingly every release), connection problems, etc. The boards over there are kind of strange, too. Any complains seem to get pounded back by the fanatics--a side effect of having a game based on a well known fantasy world, I guess; it's like if you complain about the game, you're insulting their homes or something.

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See, all I see over there is ALOT of whining about needing more content.

Khyber does explain it though... I saw a message specifically mentioning that server in the Hotfix window. Sorry to hear that...

And no its not wrong to complain about the game as long as you're aiming for constructive criticism... my huge problem with just about EVERY MMO community is the people who whine and cry *just to do it*. They aren't out to make the game better... they just feel like they *need* to complain about something.

That was part of my reason for the original assertion I made.

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Don't get me wrong - for me, personally, a faster update schedule with smaller updates would be fine really; they do it in DDO and its been moving like clockwork. Really a good system.

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Huh?!? Clockwork?!? Well, yeah, regular releases with DDO, but every last one has been utter crap which can take upwards of a month afterwards to get working! Heck, afer one release I couldn't play at all for three weeks because the lag was so bad (and I'm talking lag worse than what we saw here in the arenas when they first hit the test server, if anyone remembers that mess--only this was on the LIVE system and we got no responses from development about what was happening or when it might be fixed!)

Beleive me, I'd rather take a delay than have rubbish like that getting released.

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Really? I didn't have that problem <;_;> What server are you on? I'm on Aundair... I don't play as much as some people, so its totally possible I've missed it.

... So why aren't people over their griping about bugs? <;_;> I still mostly seem the same "There' not enough to do!" whine...

People hurt my poor little brain <~.~>;

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I suppose it makes me a sicko that I laughed at that!

Although I'm at a loss as to why you would give a stuffed panda to a guy as *obviously* cool as that guy XD

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I do believe the term is "brilliant" <@_@>

Because I laughed at it, and I'm *obviously* a perfectly sane and productive member of society <^o^>






That and he *so* deserved it lol >.<

"Shot through the head~ and your to blame~
You give pandas~ a bad name~"

...

sorry <;_;> I was attacked by Bon Jovi. Seriously. They were here, with guns.

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They released them in bits onto Test, though. Not being able to release individual bits means that their development strategy is (perhaps necessarily) unmodular.

Heck, ideally they should be set up so that each individual system is its own piece which can be enabled or disabled independent of the rest, with little extra work outside of what's already a part of the standard publishing function they have now.

They managed to put in two types of wings without enabling all the other types, and the Cathedral of Pain has been disabled since CoV's release, so there is SOME ability to break things into smaller pieces. They just need to take that further, so that if something (Vet Rewards, for instance) isn't ready, they can say, "Sorry guys, Vet Rewards have some issues. Good news, though, we're still releasing everything else from I8 now, with the rewards to follow!" (Like they've done with the Fly poses.)

'course, that doesn't help them if there are major bugs in everything...

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While I think this is a good idea in theory; here's my huge concern with something like that.

People will still [censored].

Namely - you tell them "Sorry, everything about I8 will come out except for <insert feature>" and you'll spend the next 2 weeks-2 months dealing with bilespewing dev-hate filled rants on the boards because "X feature was the only reason I was keeping my subscription active!!"

Especially something major like Vet Rewards.

I'm not saying its not a better strategy overall - But it seems that people will be jerks regardless of how you swing it; and so I have to ask "Is it worth it to the devs to split things up into a more efficient system when the players will be just as gripey?"

Maybe thats just my own personality leaking through though - I know in their position I personally would do what's easiest for me unless I thought that doing something a particular way had a good chance of making a desirable impact. Failing that impact I'm just not going to muck with it.

Again, that's all personal opinion - I'd be fine seeing the updates switched to a smaller more modular approach; I just question how much impact it'd actually have.

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You're essentially saying, "Well, no matter what they do people will complain," but the majority of people only complain when they're getting antsy and bored, really.

Are you honestly saying that you don't think there'd be less complaining if updates were more regular and came out closer to their stated release dates?

Look at it this way, using just logic, not your feelings: Issues are made of multiple parts. People probably want more than one part of those issues, right?

So: what are the odds that if you're holding an issue back for three or four of those parts that every person that's annoyed now because they want something new won't get at least one part that they're looking forward to if you only hold back the broken bits, instead of the entire thing?

Emotionally, sure, people will [censored]. Logically? C'mon, unless the majority of the issue is broken, putting out the parts that are working has got to at least distract some of the people.

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Maybe a few Foo... but I don't exactly have a giant helping of faith left in these forums. >.< There are *plenty* of good people - but the griping, [censored] and moaning just gets on my nerves like you wouldn't BELIEVE.

And I'm inclined to believe that anyone who's distracted by the new shinies, will just get replaced by someone else who was fine with the status quo and is now pissed.

Don't get me wrong - for me, personally, a faster update schedule with smaller updates would be fine really; they do it in DDO and its been moving like clockwork. Really a good system.

Predictably - those boards are chaos, despite getting an update roughly every month and a half. (number is approximate; roughly every month-two months)

I want to see the change made - I just don't expect it would happen for the reasons I've stated already <x_x> consider me pessimistic on the issue.

Wow! <o.o> That is *definitely* cool Rowrsie! <^o^> Congratulations! RAWR as it were! <^,~>b

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lurkers, you guys answer too, ok

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You'd want us to come out of the shadows to voice our opinion? That would put our lurker status in jeopardy.

Personally, I'd like them to get what they have finished and tested released. If that means that the Vet Rewards will be delayed, fine by me. I won't even notice while I'm in Faultline, or on the Police Scanner.

The features of Issue 8 have no bearing on my subscription status, however. I would keep playing even if Issue 8 was going to be delayed a year, I just love playing CoH.

Now back to lurking!

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It's Belkar! Don't listen to him! He's Chaotic Evil!... Or maybe Neutral Evil!

He's definitely *not* Lawful at least! <O.O> Which means he's lying!









(sorry <;_;> I loves me OOTS)

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What if, when it looked like it was going to be late, and let's not kid ourselves, someone knew it wasn't going to be a quick fix. When it looked like September just wasn't going to happen at all, would it have been acceptable to you (lurkers, you guys answer too, ok) if Cryptic came out and said, "I8 will be released, but we can't get all of it done. We're releasing this part now (insert something, costumes, safeguard missions, whatever isn't totally fubared right now) and we'll release the rest when it's ready."

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Aside from disabling the Vet reward triggers, I'm not sure if they could have split things up without creating even more work and risking more bugs. Without knowing how integrated or modular the features are, it's tough to see if it could be done piecemeal or if it was an all-or-nothing deal.

Even if it could be released in phases, that adds additional workload behind the scenes--a lot of additional workload. Which, in turn means resourses get tied up, and other things in the pipeline get delayed, and furture schedules get slipped or have to be seriously reworked. It's a godawful mess when you start mucking with content at the tail end of a development cycle, and you don't want to go down that road unless you have no other choice. Since a delay will not adversely affect sales, and will likely only marginally affect subscriptions, there's probably not much to be gained by phasing the release just to placate the concerned subscribers (which may be only a small, though vocal group, relative to the entire player base anyhow).

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They released them in bits onto Test, though. Not being able to release individual bits means that their development strategy is (perhaps necessarily) unmodular.

Heck, ideally they should be set up so that each individual system is its own piece which can be enabled or disabled independent of the rest, with little extra work outside of what's already a part of the standard publishing function they have now.

They managed to put in two types of wings without enabling all the other types, and the Cathedral of Pain has been disabled since CoV's release, so there is SOME ability to break things into smaller pieces. They just need to take that further, so that if something (Vet Rewards, for instance) isn't ready, they can say, "Sorry guys, Vet Rewards have some issues. Good news, though, we're still releasing everything else from I8 now, with the rewards to follow!" (Like they've done with the Fly poses.)

'course, that doesn't help them if there are major bugs in everything...

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While I think this is a good idea in theory; here's my huge concern with something like that.

People will still [censored].

Namely - you tell them "Sorry, everything about I8 will come out except for <insert feature>" and you'll spend the next 2 weeks-2 months dealing with bilespewing dev-hate filled rants on the boards because "X feature was the only reason I was keeping my subscription active!!"

Especially something major like Vet Rewards.

I'm not saying its not a better strategy overall - But it seems that people will be jerks regardless of how you swing it; and so I have to ask "Is it worth it to the devs to split things up into a more efficient system when the players will be just as gripey?"

Maybe thats just my own personality leaking through though - I know in their position I personally would do what's easiest for me unless I thought that doing something a particular way had a good chance of making a desirable impact. Failing that impact I'm just not going to muck with it.

Again, that's all personal opinion - I'd be fine seeing the updates switched to a smaller more modular approach; I just question how much impact it'd actually have.

Thanks all hehe <^o^>~ I tried some new stuff when inking that I think helped >< Still a LONG way to go, but I think I'm getting there <@_@> I find sometimes taking a break lets me grow more rapidly when I return ><; That's part of why I was willing to let it go nearly a whole month <,< The other being NaNo hehe <~_~>;

<^o^>! Glad people liked it.

Hey all <@_@> Long time no mew hehe <,<!

Finally getting back to my drawing after a month of attempting to write. >< My goal from now on being to balance both as best as humanly possible!

For my first attempt in over a month; I give you this:

2 Hour Color Drawing!

That was *ultra* fast and it shows >.< Its hardly great (why I didn't bother giving it its own thread); but there was something I liked about it enough to post it to. So... <@_@> I dunno; for a 2 hour drawing, whatcha all think?

I'll be around more from here forward again <,< I was so busy hehe

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I love the shocked look on the toys' faces.

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I must agree <,< In particular Pinnochio <'x'> He's got that "HOLY [censored]" look down perfectly >.>

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....

What was THAT??

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One reason why we're keeping him.

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*nod*

*chains self to da Capn's leg*

<>,<> No escape fer you! >.> rawrrr... <;_;> *gets drug off by the tide*

Happy Birthday Artic_Sun! <^o^> RAWR!! *many cheers*

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WEEEEEEE Got my tablet for my b-day. Now, just gotta wait for my damn arm to get better.

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*huggles and cheers for Hex!* <^o^> RAWR!

Hope your arm gets better soon though <;_;>

Yeah, Posi said after I8 some time ago (the post was 2 or 3 months back >.&gt Also looking at rent.

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well the moment I have to hear someone claiming that they speak for the art forums is the day I roll my eyes even more so than usual .

Last thing we need is some inner circle trying to dictate policy and "speak for us" or trying to dictate policy on the art forums for those that chose to post .

Im quite happy with drawing what I enjoy drawing without any notice from the Powers that be

And no we are not really a community we are more a very small subset of the player base that draws and an even smaller subset that draws and posts regularly .

anyways IMHO YMMV

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<. .> *hugs Scarf randomly*

/me is in total agreement >.>b

To be honest Juggy <'x'> and this is *just* me - I really enjoy the lack of attention >.> Too much attention from the higher ups makes me nervous I guess >.>;

But that is just me <~_~> I just worry that more attention means more moderation - which given how we can sometimes get around here <;_;> would be less fun in my eyes.

>.> At any rate, it doesn't worry me at all. But like I says, just me.

My thought... is that I'm going to switch mediums <x.x>

I can't stand the idea of losing my artwork.

Though I'll have to ask -

If I have my artwork on my hard drive - on photobucket, and on a flashdrive, and I continuously re-upload it to new computers as I get them - am I risking my work?

Ya know what another thing I just thought of would help too?

PVE base raids that you could bring non-SG members on.

I admit, figuring out how to make PVE base raids fun, enjoyable, and not exploitable would be difficult... but defending your base could be an absolute blast - and teammates not in your SG could check it out too.

Also - this could solve the Window problem imho...

Give us the option to build our base "Outdoors" - what I mean is; rather than giving us a purely indoor setting; let us have an outdoor environment - and then the base be within that environment. Thus windows just need to be holes in the walls.

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Intestingly, costumes have no gameplay value. They don't boost damage. They don't boost resistance. They don't boost defense. They're only for show.

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Yes, and everyone can see them. You look at my character, you see my costume.

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Admittedly, there's not quite the same amount of textures, colors, etc., but there's still a lot of versatility. And the layout possibilities are endless.

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And they're hidden away, effectively in their own dimension. Other people can see my costume and go 'wow' simply by my flying past. To see my base, they have to be in a coalition with me, or on my team while we go there (and for that to happen, we need to have a reason for them to go, other than me saying 'come check out the base'). They can't simply happen across it and go 'wow!'

When something has substantial show value, you have to be able to show it off!

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That's a very good point actually... I didn't think in those terms myself but yah... <o.O> Its hard to get people to check out the base because its squirreled away (hehe, I make teh funny) in a portal only accessible by allies and SG mates.

Not that we want strangers free-roaming the bases either... hrmm...

Ok so here's a question Lady_Sadako >.> I think you've got a good point here - but how do we make them more visible without running out of landscape nor having people in our bases when we don't want them there?


(<@.@>; and I think its awesome that States is reading this thread. I shouldn't be surprised at all mind you >.> but I am <,< <. .> ahem - "cool")

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Unfortunately, one of the problems with the boards is that both sides of any argument forget that it's all raw bias. Those same people you think are being ridiculous are doubtless totally secure in the belief that they have a legitimate point. Unless one side or the other invokes some ultimate source of truth and decision that I've never personally encountered, it's just name-calling at various degrees of intensity.

~Gabriel

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A call to reasoned discourse and constructive criticism is not namecalling.

One doesn't need any 'ultimate truth' to be able to ask for a some degree of politeness in making negative comments. And someone making unreasonable demands (and while no, I don't have any divine source to point to to tell me what unreasonable demands are - I think there's a little base-level logic one can employ to understand what's what in that regard) - making unreasonable demands is, indeed, ridiculous. It doesn't help the game, it doesn't help the players of that game, and it most assuredly doesn't incline the devs to listen any more intently to us when we have serious honest to goodness issues we want addressed.

I don't care how convinced someone is that they're correct - it doesn't change that they can, in fact, be wrong. (Yes, opinions can, in fact, be wrong - people can form all sorts of opinions, they can say, for instance that white is black - they're allowed that opinion, but they are indeed incorrect.) So if someone's opinion is, for example "the devs just want to ruin our fun" (an opinion I've seen repeatedly) - I have to question their ability to think critically.

Why on earth would a game developer intentionally lessen how much fun you have? They want you to stick around, you pay their salaries among other things (at least indirectly). They also want you to buy more products in the future (Cryptic having at least 2 more MMOs in the pipe so far; one we know nothing of, one is the Marvel MMO).

I've seen that charge leveled repeatedly - its an opinion, and, its a wrong one; because it doesn't pass any basic logical tests at all.

I'm not saying "Defend the devs at all costs" - that's silly; and in fact doesn't help them at all. They do NEED to know what we think of given features, positive or negative. I'm just asking people to kill the rhetoric and focus on the actual issues. Hate a change? Make it known, and do so clearly and concisely. Understand that some people may disagree with you on that; and in the end, this isn't a democracy - the devs will make the final decision based on their own experiences and reasoning. You have your say, you merely can't expect that say to be headed above all others.

That's exactly the kind of ridiculousness I'm talking about. There are plenty of people who are convinced they're correct above all others - and usually, they happen to be incorrect; that's why we have such a thing as reasoned discourse: To keep passion, and 'gut knowledge' from overriding empirical knowledge or - where empirical knowledge is impossible, to come up with acceptable compromise where possible. That applies of course to far more than the game.

My PB is getting wings <,< rawr! They were always in Skycat's plan <'x'>b now I'll actually get to add them >_<!

Well... in about 2 months after release (assuming mid-november release)

Stupid new account <-.-> If I had my original account, I'd be only 1 month behind people who were here at launch.

I really like that >_<

I have but one single complaint - and I know why they didn't do it.

But I would have *loved* it if when you put yourself into a descent, you could "glide" with the wings outstretched. That of course would require much more complex programming just for wings... so understandable. Very very cool ><

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1) Happy birthday Clintonian!

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Thank you. I still have over an hour to cling to my youth here in California at the moment.

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However, I also think that changing direction within a MMOG is like steering an oil tanker - you might want to make that turn, but it's going to take a while to get the thing facing some other point on the compass.

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Agreed. Just like with the conventional wisdom of the Dems retaking Congress this year, I think it's too early to cheer about a new day dawning yet - but I'm hopeful in my skepticism.

Remember: REAL HEROES VOTE on November 7th!

(...and real heroes insist on voting with paper provisional ballots if their electronic voting machines don't print voting receipts...)

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/agree majorly

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Still my main point really was just people really do get ridiculous.

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Agreed. There is some wiggle room between 0 and 'ALL THE WAY TO 11, BABY!' on the expectation scale, though. A lot of reasonable discussions here and in real life get off track with too much attention given to the extremes. It's tempting to tell an '11' person that they really should expect a '1' because it's frustrating to give a loony any credence to their fantasy and you want to shock them to reality, but these things tend to bite people in the [censored] later on. I have the marks to prove it, myself.

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So true... <X_X> lol; /sigh

Like so many things in life - moderation is key, yet, at the same point, articulating the middle way is also the most difficult; since sadly topics can't use a handy numerical scale <,<b

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Individual, customizable rooms for EVERY member would go a long way toward making bases more palatable. When they were released, I told my sg that I hated them because it gave only 1 or 2 people access to the editor. Disgruntled people ravaging a base before they quit an sg is the biggest reason access to edit the entire base is restricted by an SGs leaders. There are many more reasons, but that is the dominant one. No SG related TFs, missions or trials via the super computer is severely disappointing.

The idea of the bases isn't rejected, the implementation of the bases is.

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Ya know... an interesting idea just came out of this; I don't think having individual customizable rooms within the 'base' base would work. (Ie: open at all intersections type rooms I mean)

But - what if there were elavators within the bases, that would take us to an upper/lower floor of the base wherein the heroes individual rooms would be? A dorm sort of.

That way, once the SG purchases the Dormitory addon - members can customize (via influence) their own personal rooms within that upper area. Rooms would be accessible via permissions set by the occupant - so for instance if you have 10 people in an SG, and they all get along, but one is kind of quiet (or for RP reasons just doesn't want you in their room) they can close the room off to all but C - because C understands them.

Even with access to someone's room, you couldn't mess it up though.

>_< Sorry, I know it sounds silly but I think it would be fun and give the bases social angle more... well... purpose.