magicj

[ QUOTE ]
You made your obtuse opinion well known in the thread regarding a "Controller's weaker cousin". If you mean to turn this into another discussion of how much better you think Controllers are than Defenders then I will iterate:

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it's not just Controllers. At the same time I was playing my FF/Dark Defender, I was playing a Bots/FF Mastermind. There's really no comparison between the two, and the Defender falls short.

An FF Defender isn't _bad_. You can bubble and herd and tank and do chaos control with it just like you can with FF in any other set. But, having played FF in several ATs, I'm not seeing any real reason to play one as a Defender. And the reason for that is _not_ the FF primary, which is stronger for Defenders than any other AT.

And this is absolutely related to the topic of this thread. "Fixing FF" is non-problem. FF is a fantastic set. The reason the set seems so "meh" for Defenders, IMHO, is that the common FF playstyle leaves you plenty of time for you to use the secondary. And it's the secondary that's "meh".

You can do things to make a FF Defender interesting by taking Provoke and Medicine and playing agressively. But you can do that with any AT that has FF as an option.

[ QUOTE ]
A FF defender, on the other hand, is a one-trick pony, and it's too easy for that trick to become useless to the team.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd ask you to consider the idea than when FF works well when paired with everything _except_ a Defender's secondary, the problem is probably _not_ FF.

The Defender's secondary needs a buff. It doesn't offer anything I can't get in better form from other ATs that have FF.

[ QUOTE ]
+Remove the "Can't Affect Others" so Dispersion can affect everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Storm already has this with Steamy Mists/O2 Boost
[ QUOTE ]
+If player attacks, defense suppresses from whatever it is to 3% for 15 seconds (which is a lot in current combat time).

[/ QUOTE ]
Steamy Mists
[ QUOTE ]
Repulsion Bomb should work more like Bonfire

[/ QUOTE ]
The power would do _less_ than it does now. If I want the Knockback in one spot, I can stand there. But there would be no way to do chaos control with a stationary Knockback drop.

And, again, Storm has a stationary Knockdown power.

[ QUOTE ]
Let me echo again my proposal for switching the numbers in Dispersion and the targetted bubbles, which other people have brought up earlier in the thread. I can't think of an easier change to make, it's just switching values, yet the effect on the set would be dramatic.

[/ QUOTE ]
The change would make herding easier. I don't pretend to speak for the Devs, but I don't see them doing it.

[ QUOTE ]
I like the idea of the bomb becoming a placeable knockdown pet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Storm. Again.

[ QUOTE ]
Keep Repulsion Field for the PBAoE foe knockback power and let Force Bubble give us something to help boost team damage.

[/ QUOTE ]
Storm has plenty of powers to increase team damage.

Honestly, just play a Storm Defender. It has what many of the folks here are looking for.

Again I ask the Devs to leave FF alone. The set is not broken.

Edit:
To the folks who are saying the Detention Field doesn't work on AVs, could you give a list of AVs that true for. Because I've been caging AVs right and left lately. You can see an example of it in the video in my sig, which was made just a few days ago.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Terrible ideas all around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey! Get out of here!

*speaks with a tone of disgust* conTROLLer....

You're the reason why people would rather play */FF than FF/*.

These changes are for us, you go home!

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm sorry PK. I really hated having to make a post like that, but I'm reading and thinking "No! No! PLEASE no!". I just had to say it.

Wow. Terrible ideas all around. My 2 cents: Devs, please don't make _any_ changes to FF.

[ QUOTE ]
Force Bolt - Add a low percentage chance (10-20%) to disorient knockback resistant mobs. If Force Bolt can't knock back an AV, at least getting hit in the FACE with a Force Bolt, should have a CHANCE to stun them for a few seconds. It makes us more viable as an asset against AVs, a common FF gripe.

[/ QUOTE ]
Never happen. AVs have boss level Stun protection. Defenders will never get a power that let's them overcome that in one shot (which is what you'd need with a "chance" to Stun). Controllers don't even get that for any power except for Sleeps.

[ QUOTE ]
Repulsion Field - Increase the endurance cost per hit SUBSTANTIALLY (to prevent abuse of the power) but increase the "pulse" rate of the knockback pulses so that an FF Defender can choose to NEVER be hit by an enemy that's not knockback resistant. I love the power, but if the enemy can one-shot you with that single swipe he can get off, it makes the field useless in some cases. Let it be our "ultimate personal defense" power so that we're not totally the LEAST defended member of the team.


[/ QUOTE ]
Never happen. A "You can't hit me but I can hit you" toggle power is insainly overpowered.

[ QUOTE ]
Force Bubble - Either leave as-is, or if you don't want to give us the changes to Repulsion Field, at least give us a 5-10% Defense bonus just to US while we're using the Force Bubble. That way the person aggro-ing the entire map at least gets a LITTLE bit more defense to protect him.


[/ QUOTE ]
Probably won't happen as Force Bubble is such a nice herding tool. I doubt the Devs want to give Defense bonuses to people herding. I could be wrong, of course, but that's my guess.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the simplest fix frankly is to change the graphic to where its super super obvious that thing has been detained.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Devs have already changed the graphic. It now has rings and mist around the bubble. That means they've already looked at the issue and made what the feel is the correct fix.

The Devs probably want FF's effects to be subtle, much in the way that Mind's control animations are subtle.

[ QUOTE ]
5. REPULSION BOMB. The least popular power for good reason. First, its animation time needs considerable shortening to be useful. Second, it seems to me that it should either just be switched to a 100% stun (ala Dark Pit or Thunderclap) or a knockdown instead of knockback. Then it could be used in the typical group and nuke tactics of the typical PuG without driving people crazy. If this means increasing the recharge or the end cost, I could live with that in exchange for it being reliable control.


[/ QUOTE ]
FF is a Knockback set, not a Knockdown set, so I don't think the Devs will be changing it. As far as making it a reliable control, it already is. It's reliable Knockback to everything including bosses.

If you want it Knockdown, use Hover. Or a wall.

[ QUOTE ]
6. FORCE BUBBLE: Make it the same radius as Dispersion as its frankly too big as it is. This change alone would make it much easier to use. Adding some defense to the defender would be nice too since otherwise you pretty much have to pair it with a purple if you are trying to save the team from anything thats actually threatening. But I honestly could live with just making it smaller as this would make it a more precise tool, less likely to cause unwanted aggro, and less likely to knock things out of attack range if you do not have a corner handy.


[/ QUOTE ]
It's big radius is a huge plus, especially when you combine this power with other AoE controls like Repulsion Bomb or an AoE Stun. Baddies get pushed far away, often behind corners if you work at it, and stay gone. Then they have to fight their way back.

[ QUOTE ]
4) Change Force Bubble from a KB/KD/Repel aura to a -dam, -speed, -rech aura. Make them push their way through like their moving through jello and make their damage suffer for it. It's all win here.


[/ QUOTE ]
Force Bubble already does all of those things. But it does them by changing the AI the baddies are using, rather than specifically applying those debuffs. The only time it _doesn't_ do them is when you've got them against a wall or they've been pushed outside the radius of the bubble.

Blues side, some of the TFs need some variety. Synapse's TF, for example, is basically the same mission over and over.

Here's a updated build that takes into consideration the changes that have occured since this guide was first published.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.21
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

WarTroller: Level 50 Mutation Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mesmerize -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(7), Empty(15), Empty(17)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- Empty(A), Empty(46)
Level 2: Dominate -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(5), Empty(11), Empty(15), Empty(19)
Level 4: Levitate -- Empty(A), Empty(5), Empty(9), Empty(11), Empty(17), Empty(19)
Level 6: Confuse -- Empty(A), Empty(7), Empty(37), Empty(39)
Level 8: Mass Hypnosis -- Empty(A), Empty(9), Empty(31), Empty(36), Empty(36)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Deflection Shield -- Empty(A), Empty(13), Empty(13)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Empty(A), Empty(43)
Level 16: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A), Empty(21), Empty(21)
Level 22: Total Domination -- Empty(A), Empty(23), Empty(23), Empty(40), Empty(40)
Level 24: Telekinesis -- Empty(A), Empty(25), Empty(25), Empty(40)
Level 26: Terrify -- Empty(A), Empty(27), Empty(27), Empty(36), Empty(37), Empty(37)
Level 28: Dispersion Bubble -- Empty(A), Empty(29), Empty(29), Empty(50)
Level 30: Insulation Shield -- Empty(A), Empty(31), Empty(31), Empty(34)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- Empty(A), Empty(33), Empty(33), Empty(33), Empty(34), Empty(34)
Level 35: Acrobatics -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Force Bubble -- Empty(A), Empty(39), Empty(39)
Level 41: Fissure -- Empty(A), Empty(42), Empty(42), Empty(42), Empty(43), Empty(43)
Level 44: Hurl Boulder -- Empty(A), Empty(45), Empty(45), Empty(45), Empty(46), Empty(46)
Level 47: Earth's Embrace -- Empty(A), Empty(48), Empty(48), Empty(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- Empty(A), Empty(50), Empty(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment



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Tank AV Tactic
Powers used: Personal Force Field, Dispersion Bubble, Combat Jumping (Leaping Pool), Acrobatics (Leaping Pool), Aid Self (Medicine Pool), Provoke (Presence Pool), Earth's Embrace (Stone Mastery)

NOTE: A healer is required for this tactic to work successfully.

This tactic allows the controller to tank an AV. The following steps are performed:

1) Activate Earth's Embrace. This will increase your Hit Points by about 50%.
2) Activate Dispersion Bubble, Acrobatics, and Combat Jumping
3) Get any available buffs from the healer.
4) Use Provoke and various attacks to hold AV aggro. The attacks should all have short animations, just in case you need to heal yourself.
5) As needed, raise PFF and apply Aid Self.

You'll also need your healer healing you as much as possible.

Using this tactic you can Tank the AV until Earth's Embrace expires. This tactic is useful when the Tank has been killed by the AV. You can fill in for the Tank until he is rezed.

The controller used to test this tactic had the Portal Jocky, Task Force Commander, and Freedom Phalanx Reserve Member Accolades. These, along with Earth's Embrace, gave the controller a Hit Point total near Brute levels. No IOs where used during this test. PFF was slotted with 3 +DEF and 1 +Recharge. Aid Self was slotted with 3 HEAL and 3 +Recharge.

This tactic was tested on Mother Mayhem set to invincible.

After doing some more research on this I found that using Force Bubble with Super Jump works very well at gathering the herd. You don't need to use Lucks during this process, just jump into the middle of a group and jump out, heading to the next group or the herd point when you have all the groups you want.

You can also use deflection Shield in the same way. It holds aggro better than the "sight aggro" of PFF, but not as well as Force Bubble.

Finally, you can grab the aggro from two groups by attacking each group once and then raising PFF. While this is more dangerous than using sight aggro with PFF up, it's more effective at grabbing the aggro.

Safer Boss Hold Tactic
Powers used: Dominate, Confuse, Mezmerize, Levitate (optional)

Apply the attack chain Dominate, Confuse, Levitate (optional), Mezmerize repeatedly to safely hold a boss. If you miss with Dominate the boss will still be confused (after the 2nd application of Confuse) and can still be safely attacked. If both Dominate and Confuse miss the boss is put to sleep with a single shot of Mesmerize.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Safe Boss Hold Tactic
Powers used: Dominate, Mezmerize, Levitate (optional)

Apply the attack chain Dominate, Levitate (optional), Mezmerize repeatedly to safely hold a boss. If you miss with Dominate the boss will still be put to sleep with a single shot of Mesmerize.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Safe Sleep Tactic
Powers used: Mesmerize, Confuse

Apply Confuse to a Mesmerized baddie to protect yourself from the baddie being woken up and attacking you.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Thanks for the kind words guys. Yes, the WarTroller is still alive and well. Since I've written the guide I've learned how to herd with Force Bubble and Super Jump without needing to pop lucks. Just jump in the middle of a group and jump out. You can herd entire (small) levels of indoor maps this way.

Here's an updated build:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.21
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mesmerize -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(7), Dmg(11), EndRdx(13)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(43), DefBuff(45)
Level 2: Dominate -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(9), Hold(11), EndRdx(15)
Level 4: Levitate -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(9), EndRdx(13), Acc(15)
Level 6: Confuse -- Acc(A), Conf(17), Conf(17)
Level 8: Mass Hypnosis -- Acc(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36)
Level 12: Aid Other -- Heal(A), Heal(40), Heal(40), RechRdx(46)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump(A), Jump(37)
Level 16: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(46), Heal(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Aid Self -- Heal(A), Heal(23), Heal(23), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(40)
Level 24: Telekinesis -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(25), EndRdx(25)
Level 26: Terrify -- Acc(A), Dmg(27), Dmg(27), Fear(31), Fear(31), EndRdx(31)
Level 28: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(29), EndRdx(29), RechRdx(34)
Level 30: Acrobatics -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(36)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- Acc(A), Conf(33), Conf(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(34), RechRdx(34)
Level 35: Assault -- EndRdx(A)
Level 38: Tactics -- EndRdx(A), ToHit(39), ToHit(39), ToHit(39)
Level 41: Fire Ball -- Acc(A), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), RechRdx(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Force Bubble -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(45), EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Fire Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(48), Dmg(48), Dmg(48), RechRdx(50), EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Total Domination -- Acc(A), RechRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 1: Containment



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Notes on the New WarTroller Build
The build is an excelent solo build. Mez, Dom, and Lev form its attack chain early. Confuse is also there early. Later we get Fire Blast. Aid Self + PFF allow for quick healing even during combat.

The build is a strong team build. There are 4 AoE controls, Mass Hypnosis, Terrify, Telekinesis, and Mass Confusion, all taken early in the build. Total Domination later adds to this and Fireball adds to team damage. Note, however, that the little bubbles are skipped completely. We do have Dispursion Bubble however.

The build has strong status protection. It protects against
* Sleep (from Health)
* Hold (from Acrobatics and Dispersion Bubble)
* Stun/Disorient (from Aid Self and Dispursion Bubble)
* Knockback (from Acrobatics)
* Immobilize (from Combat Jumping)
* Fear (From Tactics)
* Confuse (from Tactics)

The build is a strong PvP build. Confuse, Dominate, TK, and Terrify are all excellent PvP powers. PFF + Aid Self is very useful in PvP. Add stealth to super Jump via IOs and you have a very good PvP toon even at the lowest levels. The addition of Tactics at level 38 let's you spot those pesky Stalkers. By level 50 you can hold a Tank or a Brute with a Dominate, TK, Total Dom combo.

The build is the best herding tank I've built with a Mind Controller. The addition of Super Jump makes getting aggro over large areas with Force Bubble fairly easy.

The build still kills quick because Mass Confusion has survived all the nerfs over the years pretty well. I'd put kill times on par with builds such as Fire/Kin.

The build can herd and kill 5 man missions set to invincible solo.

Can I Have Your Attention Please Tactic
Powers used: Levitate

If you want to pull an entire group rather than just one or two individuals in the group, use Levitate against one of the group members. Levitate almost always aggros the entire group.

This tactic can be used to reposition a group when several groups are near each other, such as during the Atta mission.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Zombie Attack Tactic
Powers used: Confuse, Mesmerize

There are times when you confuse a zombie and it just stands there, refusing to attack. To "wake up" the zombie, hit it with Mesmerzie after Confuse. The sleep effect lasts less then a second and the zombie will then begin attacking his fellow baddies.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Punch Thru Tactic
Powers used: Confuse, Dominate (optional), Sands Of Mu (Temp Power or Veteran Reward)

Sands of Mu has the ability to hit more than one target at a time, but it is often difficult to properly position the baddies to get this effect. To get the proper positioning easily, perform the following steps:

1) Confuse a baddie.
2) Dominate the baddie the confused baddie is attacking (optional, but recommended)
3) Wait for confused baddie to move into melee range (almost always happens)
4) Position yourself so there's a straight line between you and the two baddies.
5) Use Sands of Mu on the two baddies.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Can't Break Free Tactic
Powers used: Detention Field

During PvP it's a common occurance for players to pop break frees to escape your holds. Containing a player in Detention Field allows you to take that player out of action and they can't pop a break free to escape. Note, however, that neither you nor your teammates will be able to further affect the player in the Detention Field.

This tactic is useful for PvP.

Solo Frostfire Tactic
Powers used: Confuse, Levitate, Dominate, Mesmerize

Since the original Solo FrostFire tactic was published, Elite Bosses have been changed to behave more like AVs. This means you cannot keep FrostFire permanently confused, even with Hasten. Therefore a new tactic is needed.

1) While Frostfire is surrounded by his minnions, cast Confuse on him. Repeat this until he becomes confused.
2) Once FrostFire is confused, he will bring out his pets.
3) Once he has his pets out, cast confuse on the pets rather than FrostFire.
4) Allow pets to defeat FrostFire, or at least reduce his health greatly.
5) (optional) To finish off FrostFire yourself, wait till his pets are gone and attack using Dominate, Levitate, and Mesmerize.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Thanks for the comments Kossy. I'll certainly take them into consideration when I do an updated version of the guide. Some of the obviouse ones, like the Wait Your Turn tactic, where specifically requested by other folks.

Will they make the final version of the new guide? I can't say. But for now I'm collecting them here so I don't forget about them.

Detoggle Tactic
Powers used: Mesmerize

Applying Mezmerize to a baddie detoggles the baddie. The toggles stay down until they recharge even if the baddie is awoken by an attack. Armored villians, such as Outcast Bricks, and villians with AoE toggles, such as Murk Eidolons, are particularly good targets for this tactic.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Wait Your Turn Tactic
Powers used: Mesmerize

Apply Mesmerize to a baddie and defeat other baddies in the group. The sleep lasts a long time, allowing you to focus your attention on the rest of the group. On teams, it's often best to apply this to a baddie away from the center of the group to avoid having the baddie awakened by AoE attacks.

Mesmerize can sleep a boss in a single application.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Herd Tactic
Powers used:
For herding: Repulsion Field
For lockdown: Mass Confusion, Terrify, Dispersion Bubble (optional).

This tactic is like the level 32 Herd tactic, but replaces Personal Force Field with Repulsion Field. This allows for larger herds to be gathered, but not as large as the herds that can be gathered with the level 38 power Force Bubble.

Hibernate Tactic
Powers used: Personal Force Field, Aid Self (Medicine Power Pool)

When in situations of low health, raise Personal Force Field and apply Aid Self. This allows fast, safe healing in a manner similar to the Tanker power Hibernate. It has the added bonus that the player is not immobilized while healing.

You can also use this tactic, skipping the healing part, to recover endurance.

NOTE: You cannot use the Rest power while Personal Force Field is up. Activating Rest disables PFF.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Temp TK Tactic
Powers used: Telekinesis, Mezmerize, Domination, Confuse

When encountering a group, Telekinesis can be used to quickly lock them down. Then individual controls, such as Domination can be used to lock down each baddie. Once all the baddies are locked down individually, Telekinesis can be turned off.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Using this tactic allows the MC to quickly control an entire group yet also allows him to turn off TK to avoid it's large endurance usage.

You do not need to master the skill of corning baddies with TK in order to use this tactic. Any wall will do.

Go Away Tactic
Powers used: Telekinesis

When encountering a powerful group that threatens the MC or team, hit the back half of the group with Telekinesis. This pushes that part of the group away from the team.

You are not trying to push the baddies into a corner or perform any other tricks. This tactic requires only selecting a baddie and toggling on TK.

Do not turn TK off until the baddies not in TK are defeated. This pushes the baddies in TK far away, often out of attack range.

This tactic is useful for soloing.