jakez0r

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If that tanker has Focused Accuracy or Build Up, even the "super bubbled" friend is easily hit.

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As it should be. Third party buffs should never be as good as an entire primary or secondary powerset (Ice for Tankers and SR for Scrappers).

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I have always thought playing with the mentality of this AT does X and that AT does Y and never the twain shall meet is unnecessarily limiting. A dark/dark defender has available to him a single target hold, an AoE fear, an AoE immobilize, an AoE disorient, and pets which can cast crowd control as well. EDIT: AND an AoE Slow.

Do you realize that's a better array of crowd control options than some of the official controller sets get?

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I give up, which one is the AoE Immobilize? It's not Tar Patch, if that's what you're thinking.

It would be silly to say that I don't do any minor controlling. With the way Fear works it necessarily happens. I just think it's a silly idea to try and work outside your AT when you do not have the tools to do so.

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Why is Dark so good? Because it's like a Controller

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I have to say this is true. I usually play controllers, but I've taken to dark/dark like a fish to water because it's more controller-like than my grav/kin. That is not to say that this is a bad thing; on the contrary, it's why I think my dark/dark is so much fun to play, so I hope they don't change it.

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/agreed

My high-level 4D is in an interesting situation on her usual SG-based team: she's role-reversed with the Controller (mc/emp). The controller is the "healer" (and is very good at it). Spookie is the "lockdown and debuff" specialist. Not that they don't cross over. The Controller's primary set also has terrific lockdown capabilities and Spookie's (and Fluffy's) heals often give the Controller more opportunity to use those powers. But for the most part, they tend to do "each other's job."

Dark/dark/dark defenders = honorary Controllers!

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I respectfully disagree. a Dark/* Defender should NOT be played like a controller. It should be played as an accuracy and damage debuffer. When I have 3 pets out, I can debuff damage on a single target by 95%. Can a Controller do this? The answer is no.

Just because you have Fearsome Stare doesn't mean you should play like a controller. Stick to what you're AT is for: ie buff/debuff/blasting. If a defender was playing like that on my team, they'd be kicked off.

I agree very much with Kali. Healing is not what Dark Miasma is about. When I'm on a team, I don't pay attention to who's around me, or other teammates's health unless they're seriously in trouble. I'm all about debuffing accuracy and damage and dropping Tar Patches.

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So Twilight Grasp is good for blasters, defenders, and controllers while Transfusion is good for Tankers, Scrappers, and Dwarfs. That defender you teamed up chose to slot for heal instead of accuracy debuff which is what I slotted for. I still don't see what you mean it's easier to get a heal off with TG than Transfusion since they both require accuracy. Not to mention, TG has a longer animation than Transfusion if i'm not mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ] Like I said before, it's much easier to position yourself for a heal than it is to position an enemy. It's far easier to run up to tankers/scrappers and cast twilight grasp than it is to get controllers, defenders or blasters to run up to an enemy to cast transfusion. When blasters are getting hurt, they tend to run, rather than rush forward into more danger in hopes for a heal.

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I see your point now, thanks for clearing that up. I think your on the money that Twilight Grasp is better than Transfusion when slotted for heals. I think it's a little humorous that you think TG shouldn't heal as much especially when it's not really that gamebreaking to make it easier to heal. But like I said, I don't use it for a heal, but as a -acc and -dam debuff

[/ QUOTE ] No problem. Sorry I wasn't more clear on it before

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also, Twilight Grasp has an end cost of 15 while Transfusion only costs 7.5. So I don't think we're getting off scot free here

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So Twilight Grasp is good for blasters, defenders, and controllers while Transfusion is good for Tankers, Scrappers, and Dwarfs. That defender you teamed up chose to slot for heal instead of accuracy debuff which is what I slotted for. I still don't see what you mean it's easier to get a heal off with TG than Transfusion since they both require accuracy. Not to mention, TG has a longer animation than Transfusion if i'm not mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ] Like I said before, it's much easier to position yourself for a heal than it is to position an enemy. It's far easier to run up to tankers/scrappers and cast twilight grasp than it is to get controllers, defenders or blasters to run up to an enemy to cast transfusion. When blasters are getting hurt, they tend to run, rather than rush forward into more danger in hopes for a heal.

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I see your point now, thanks for clearing that up. I think your on the money that Twilight Grasp is better than Transfusion when slotted for heals. I think it's a little humorous that you think TG shouldn't heal as much especially when it's not really that gamebreaking to make it easier to heal. But like I said, I don't use it for a heal, but as a -acc and -dam debuff

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Edit to add: I've also been in situations where a controller's healers are just plain superior to mine. I play a Dark Miasma defender, and the heals in question were kinetics. I know that Twilight Grasp has a pretty substantial heal and that Transfusion isn't far off from it. I'm not saying that there should never be an occasion when a Controller can outheal a defender, but it does seem that controller secondaries are very close to defender primaries in capability.

[/ QUOTE ] I think that transfusion, even a controllers tranfusion, should heal signifficantly more than a dark defenders. To be honest, I think a dark defenders heal should be weakened signifficantly. Why? Not only is it very powerful right now, and easier to use than transfusion, but dark servants ALSO cast it. A dark defender casts it, gets a good 500+ heal, then two or more dark servants cast it, huzzah, two or more +200 heals! Don't you think this is even a -little- unfair?

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I don't really see your point, why should Transfusion heal for more than Twilight Grasp other than "I think it should".

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As of right now, transfusion and twilight grasp heal for the same ammount (at least, I've heard. If not, they're damned close.) Seems fair at a glance, but twilight grasp is far easier to use to heal your team than transfusion. To heal with transfusion, allies have to be near the target, which for blasters and other ranged characters, is exactly where they don't want to be. To use twilight grasp, you need A target, but it doesn't have to be near allies, as the heal eminates from you as opposed to the enemy. It's far easier to position yourself for a good heal as opposed to positioning your enemies.

Secondly, not only is it easier to pull off the heal, but dark servants ALSO pull off the heal, meaning that there is a high chance to heal multiple times, as many times as you have pets out. It may be a weaker heal, but it is by no means pathetic. I teamed with a Lv40 dark defender last night who's heal was doing near 700points, while her pets did about 250 each. See where I'm coming from yet?

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So Twilight Grasp is good for blasters, defenders, and controllers while Transfusion is good for Tankers, Scrappers, and Dwarfs. That defender you teamed up chose to slot for heal instead of accuracy debuff which is what I slotted for. I still don't see what you mean it's easier to get a heal off with TG than Transfusion since they both require accuracy. Not to mention, TG has a longer animation than Transfusion if i'm not mistaken.

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Edit to add: I've also been in situations where a controller's healers are just plain superior to mine. I play a Dark Miasma defender, and the heals in question were kinetics. I know that Twilight Grasp has a pretty substantial heal and that Transfusion isn't far off from it. I'm not saying that there should never be an occasion when a Controller can outheal a defender, but it does seem that controller secondaries are very close to defender primaries in capability.

[/ QUOTE ] I think that transfusion, even a controllers tranfusion, should heal signifficantly more than a dark defenders. To be honest, I think a dark defenders heal should be weakened signifficantly. Why? Not only is it very powerful right now, and easier to use than transfusion, but dark servants ALSO cast it. A dark defender casts it, gets a good 500+ heal, then two or more dark servants cast it, huzzah, two or more +200 heals! Don't you think this is even a -little- unfair?

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I don't really see your point, why should Transfusion heal for more than Twilight Grasp other than "I think it should".

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I don't see what the fuss is all about. My Dark/Elec defender is probably the most valuable player on Archvillain teams.

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Well of course you don't. You can solo them! The rest of us get screwed.

The message I get from this post is...
Don't bother making a Defender other than Rad/* or Dark/* because you're just setting yourself up to suck. And it's intended.

Guess it's back to soloing 8 player Invincible maps on my Scrapper.

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That's hardly the point. The point is that the Defender should be making the team more awesome. I say that the best Defender is one whose effect on the team isn't immediately noticeable. I'll leave the flashy holds to the controller. I'll stick to my Fearsome Stare and Tar Patch

I don't see what the fuss is all about. My Dark/Elec defender is probably the most valuable player on Archvillain teams.

Also, I have a feeling this will become what Issue 3 did for Tankers. They complained about not doing enough damage, and now you have powersets that outdamage scrapper sets. I hope something will be done so that it doesn't upset balance.

Jeff K for being awesome
Ravonette for being waycool

Also want to thank Degauss and the other Goons.