Werner

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I can understand the logic of respecing out of Fitness, but I wouldn't want to give up Health on my Regen.

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I wouldn't want to either, but Health does Regen the least good of any of the secondaries, so if any secondary can skip the Fitness pool entirely, it's Regen. But I wouldn't want to skip Hurdle either because I love bunny hopping with Hurdle + Combat Jumping. I'm a Fitness junkie. Never made a toon without it.

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For Willpower, pursuing defense bonuses is an eccentric pursuit IMO. You want max HP and regeneration instead.

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That at least used to be the case. Then high levels of typed defense became much easier to obtain. At this point defense builds seem a much better choice to me if you're going for maximum survivability. On the other hand, the way that I calculate survivability unintentionally overweights defense and underweights hit points, so it's hard to say that conclusively.

OK, I calculated 122 DPS for Energy Melee vs. 135 for Super Strength. Both are slightly overstated since I pretended they had perma Hasten (about 10 seconds off), but should be comparable.

Here's the spreadsheet.

Here's the Invulnerability/Energy Melee build. Unlike Super Strength, endurance use is sustainable and I squeezed in a travel power.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Werthold: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(3), HO:Ribo(13)
Level 1: Barrage -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal(21), Dct'dW-Rchg(21)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Hectmb-Dam%(7), EndRdx-I(9)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam(11), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(11), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Boxing -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(15), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(23), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(23), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(25)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(13), Ksmt-ToHit+(34), Empty(46)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(15), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17), Mrcl-Heal(19), RgnTis-Regen+(19)
Level 16: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-End%(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 22: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(25)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(29), HO:Membr(29)
Level 30: Taunt -- Mocking-Acc/Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36), Mocking-Rchg(46)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def(48), RedFtn-EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(39), Mako-Dam%(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 41: Energy Transfer -- Mako-Dmg/Rchg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Mako-Dam%(42), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Chilblain -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apoc-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet



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I generally try to stick with as few attacks as I can get away with, yes, but it isn't a requirement. It just tends to be a feature of high DPS scrapper builds, so it's kind of my default choice, and it also often allows for greater flexibility in the rest of the build. That's important on scrappers because you need to use most of the build to just stay alive when fighting AVs. It might not be so important on tankers.

So let's see. Energy Transfer -&gt; Bone Smasher -&gt; Total Focus -&gt; Energy Punch would work, and is technically a better DPS chain while still having achievable recharge. Thing is, it would only do about 3% higher DPS while requiring a significantly higher investment in recharge (253% vs. 216%) in power choices (1) and slots (5). I'm guessing that I can easily make up the 3% raw DPS difference through +damage bonuses. I don't guarantee that I'm right, and to save time I won't be checking all possible alternatives, but it looks like it will be within a few percent either way.

What about Energy Transfer -&gt; Bone Smasher -&gt; Energy Punch -&gt; Total Focus -&gt; Bone Smasher -&gt; Energy Punch? That drops the recharge requirement to almost nothing (+137% in Total Focus). I could drop Hasten and go for Assault and some set bonuses to try to make up the ground lost on raw DPS (about 7%). We'll lose perma Dull Pain, but with all the hit point bonuses available, it might not be that critical a loss. I've never been a huge advocate of perma Dull Pain anyway. Build Up won't happen as frequently.

Eh, I think I'll stick with ET&gt;BS&gt;TF&gt;BS. It's a much easier conversion from the other build, and will probably be within a few percentage points of DPS one way or the other, so it should be good enough for comparison.

OK, for Energy Melee, it looks like the best DPS chain is:

Energy Transfer -&gt; Energy Punch -&gt; Total Focus -&gt; Energy Punch

The main problem with it is that it requires +299% recharge in Total Focus. That's nearly impossible, and probably not worth all the necessary compromises when you could do this instead:

Energy Transfer -&gt; Bone Smasher -&gt; Total Focus -&gt; Bone Smasher

And do slightly less DPS at only +216% recharge in Total Focus, plus have a stronger and more reliable stun.

So, for people who actually have a clue about Energy Melee, does that look right?

Cool, thanks. So a 20% chance every 10 seconds of 7.5 endurance, 20% * 7.5 / 10 = 0.15 EPS. So swapping the Panacea in is enough to make the build almost sustainable (0.06 EPS endurance burn flat out), but not enough to make up for switching to Ring of Fire for the extra damage. So I'll call the 135 DPS good enough for comparison purposes. Mind you, I would totally switch to Ring of Fire for an even slightly more general purpose build. You'd probably never run out of endurance in normal play.

Ouch ouch ouch! Ring of Fire costs an extra 0.25 EPS for an extra 3.9 DPS, which is to say it's 15.6 DPE for the added damage. That's horrible DPE, and endurance use simply won't be sustainable.

Anyone have the stats on the Panacea proc? The in-game description doesn't seem to say the % chance or how much health and stamina it adds when it fires. It's not in Mids', of course, and I couldn't seem to find it on Red Tomax's page.

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I'm not saying I'd put it in a click power, I'm saying I wouldn't care where I put it. From a number perspective, it doesn't seem like this proc worth caring about.

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i completely understand where your comeing from in a "number perspective" , but there seems to be a rather more than calculatable discrepancy between therory and practice, ... the RNG is what it is as in Random, though i see it in effect on paper, i dont find it to be the case in practice ... i do belive the RNG is a'bit bias when dealing with a limited scale, perhaps it has to do with the clamps, but it seems to hit the mark more often then theory would show when dealing with either extremes.

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So... you're saying that you think the random number generator is firing so much more often than it should on the proc that it would make up for the big on-paper damage loss required to have the endurance to run Focused Accuracy full time?

OK.

Drop the Achilles' Heel in Ablating Strike and replace it with an endurance reducer. Drop the PvP -resist proc in Sweeping Strike and replace it with an endurance reducer. Drop the Mako's acc/end/rech from Blinding Feint and replace it with an endurance reducer. Hopefully that will give you enough endurance to run Focused Accuracy full time. You'll probably need even further compromises, but maybe that'll be enough.

But really, you've left the realm of the number crunchers at that point.

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I said you could use the Ice (sort of simulating ice breath) for an APP. So go ahead and as Jean Luc would say, "Make it So." Also, would lazer beam eyes be ok to use? It has the -def. but not sure on how that balances vs DPS.

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Sorry, I missed that somehow. I'm no longer thinking that Ice is better for DPS, but it's competitive, and definitely is better for secondary effects for normal play, so I'll poke at it.

Laser Beam Eyes are quite a ways down on the DPS scale, and are a longish attack, interrupting better ones. The main advantage is the Achilles' Heel proc. On scrappers, the answer is still "don't do it". On tankers, I suspect the answer is the same, but I don't know for sure. I'll poke at that as well.

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Fire Breath, for instance, is sure DoT.

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According to the character creator, the ticks are 80%, so I'd assume they can cancel further ticks?

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RoF's dot always lands for full value. Most dots do (see Midnight's Grasp, Incinerate, etc). The only dots I know of that are xx% per tick are Fire Melee, Spines, and likely Fire Blast, Thorns.

If you were having end issues before, wouldn't adding an end inefficient attack not be a wise decision to make? If end issues are under control it makes sense, of course.

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OK, I'm not a Fire expert, so bear with me while I get to play newb and try to confirm everything. We're saying that Ring of Fire's DoTs always land. Fire Melee's DoTs can shut down early, so follow the formula we worked out earlier. And Fire Blast is an unknown? Can someone confirm whether the DoTs for Fire Blast can shut down early or not?

And yeah, Ring of Fire may cause further endurance problems. But I also need to see how much the Panacea proc can help. If that can make up the difference or more, then I'd say we're fine.

(edit: Wait... you said that Incinerate's DoTs always land, while Fire Melee's DoTs don't, but Incinerate is IN Fire Melee? Maybe I'd better just get a list of attacks. Some of this I can do myself by going into the character creator:

Scorch: 80%
Fire Sword: 80%
Combustion: 100%
Breath of Fire: 80%
Fire Sword Circle: 80%
Incinerate: 100%
Greater Fire Sword: 80%
Ring of Fire: 100%
Fire Blast: 80%???

Nice and complicated. )

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I'm not saying I'd put it in a click power, I'm saying I wouldn't care where I put it. From a number perspective, it doesn't seem like this proc worth caring about.

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Agreed. While we could run it permanently, we only have a few ways to do it, and all of them suck.

Tactics requires a power pool, and we can't drop the ones we have. Hasten is necessary for the attack chain. Stamina is necessary to power it. Tough and Weave keep the build from being devoted to +defense sets and sacrificing the recharge necessary for the attack chain. Aid Self was given as a requirement of the build.

Focused Accuracy has a huge endurance cost, which would require massive endurance reduction in the attacks, hurting DPS far more than the proc would ever make up.

Targeting Drone is even worse than Focused Accuracy because it also requires that you drop Conserve Power, and you'd never recover from that sort of double punch to your endurance.

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in a discussion of AV's having an immob is very valuable as nothing kills dps like when they run around.

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If Invinc behaves on Tankers like it does on Scrappers (according to CoD, it doesn't stack on Tankers, but it has a higher mag and still the same, long base duration), most AVs won't ever run away.

I can think of only two AVs who moved a bit : Synapse and Mako. Even then, both were running at high speed and instantly coming back to melee, sometimes so fast my attack chain kept going without a pause.

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Even with no taunt aura at all, the only AV I remember routinely running was Captain W. M. Dietrich. It was nice on Sergei having a chain that included an immobilize for her. Also, I think it has occasionally confused the AI into using mostly ranged attacks. But those are very much the exceptions rather than the rule. I wouldn't bother with an immobilize unless it just happened to fit in and didn't hurt DPS.

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I'm curious why you don't use ring of fire. It is not a particularly endurance efficient attack, but it has very good dpa and in a discussion of AV's having an immob is very valuable as nothing kills dps like when they run around.

For dpa ring is just a shade lower than haymaker.

In the chain of Knockout Blow -&gt; Haymaker -&gt; Fire Blast -&gt; Punch -&gt; Haymaker -&gt; Fire Blast
Sub it in for punch/boxing.
Thinking 5 piece decimation (including bu proc)+ 1 dam/end.

Should increase dps a bit, but would tax the end bar more too. Deci's boost max end tho, might help a bit.

Mostly I'm just thinking that when that bugger wants to start cruising on you if you are already just a smidgen over the threshold and actually denting it, then the drop in dps could really hurt.

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Well, unless Mids' is wrong, Ring of Fire doesn't actually have good DPA (damage per Arcanatime). It has five ticks of 9.79 damage each. According to the formula we worked out earlier, that's an average of 9.79 * 4 * (1-0.8^5) = 26.33 damage. It takes (roundup(1.17/0.132)+1)*0.132 = 1.32 seconds. That's a DPA of only 19.94, which is less than HALF of Haymaker, and below Punch, Jab, and pretty much any other alternative.

Now, if all five ticks hit, it would do 48.95 damage, which would be 37.08 DPA, which would indeed be competitive. But that's why I was asking how the fire DoTs worked earlier in the thread. Is Ring of Fire an exception to the rule? If so, yes, it would be a better attack.

I'm guessing you have a tiny fraction of a second gap on Knockout Blow, something in the 1/20th of a second range. Nothing you'd notice, and nothing that will make a practical difference on DPS.

So yeah, I think it's Rage vs. +damage. My calculations say a 70 second rage cycle averages about 126% damage enhancement, and an 80 second rage cycle averages about 110% damage enhancement. Those are probably very close to what we're seeing. So overly simplifying a bit, my attacks average 100% base + 100% enhancement + 126% Rage + 6% bonus = 332% damage, while yours average 100% base + 100% enhancement + 110% Rage + 29% bonus = 339% damage. So it looks like your approach worked out slightly better, with 339%/332% - 100% = 2% better DPS. Yours may fall behind again because of the slightly lower DPS attacks, but the two are very very close.

I'm thinking a hybrid or just your approach but with Ice Mastery attacks might be best at this point, but I don't think I'll bother fiddling with the build at this point. I'm just trying to get a decent comparison. That we're using very similar chains at very similar recharge producing very similar DPS makes me confident that the numbers are good enough for a comparison to other primaries, which is mostly what we're after.

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For example, does Energy Melee have a chance to take on AVs? It's a less resisted damage type, has several great single target attacks (although very slow) and paired up with Shields, I think it has a chance, but I have no idea if this is even possible DPS wise.

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Well, if nobody steps in saying "Yes, I've done it" or "Yes, here's a build", I'll tackle Energy Melee next, since that was one of the original requests. I'll be pairing it with Invulnerability, though. It should still give us a good idea where Shield Defense would fall.

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Perhaps since noone is voting, and more suggestions keep coming in, it would be fair to simply go in order of what was suggested first to most recent. This way, noone gets left out and if the suggestion is easy it can be resolved quickly, allowing for the more difficult ones to be reached.

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I second this motion.

At first, accuracy didn't look like it was quite there. Sweeping Strike, for instance, shows up at 85% against +4s. But that's assuming you haven't already connected with Blinding Feint. And Blinding Feint itself has over 95% without needing to stack. Also, that's with Focused Accuracy off. If you're fighting tough targets, toggle it on for a bit until your Blinding Feint stacks, then toggle it back off. So I'd say you're there.

Oh, and yes, BF&gt;AS&gt;SS&gt;AS is the best DPS chain. I might argue for BF&gt;SS&gt;AS instead, as it does do better AoE damage and does pull ahead when speed boosted, but it's enough behind the other on single target DPS that I won't push for it when that's the criteria.

Is endurance consumption sustainable? It looks kind of ugly on the surface, but I assume what's going on is that having Conserve Power up over half the time pulls us out of the hole. I can check it if necessary, but I assume you already have.

If there's any problem, I see some easy tweaks. You could replace the recharge in Practiced Brawler with an endurance reducer. Not much benefit to double stacking it. You could replace the defense IO in Weave with a +3 Enzyme. Actually, I'd do that anyway since it's better defense, not worse. You could drop one of the interrupt reducers from Aid Self and put a +3 Ribosome in Tough. I might do that anyway, since it's only increases the interrupt window by 0.16 seconds, you don't get hit much through soft-capped defenses, and a few more points of resistance are nice. Speaking of resistance, it might be nice to fit in the PvP +resistance unique, but I don't know where you'd get the slot. Hmmm, well, if it had sustainable endurance before, it has more than sustainable endurance now, so maybe we could pull a slot out of Stamina and use it for the unique.

Anyway, it's down to tweaks based on your final goals.

I thought it would be tougher than that. Nice job, Nihilii.

The reason you're not seeing many procs is that I'm trying to get endurance consumption down to the point of sustainability, and despite all the effort, it's still not quite there. It's one thing to put out a lot of DPS. It's another thing to do so for the long duration of a tank vs. AV fight. Now, blues could definitely take up some of the slack, but for scrappers, when we talk about AV soloing builds, we usually mean “without temps or inspirations” since its pretty easy to, say, soft cap defense when you're chugging purples.

Oh. I should have slotted a Panacea proc. That would help out the endurance issues.

For a more general purpose build, and where you're not specifically putting tools off limits to make the game even more challenging, yes, I'd put some procs in there, but not many. In this case, hitting the necessary recharge on Knockout Blow is important, and its right on the border. So pretty much all we can do is replace the two endurance reducers with procs, a Mako's Bite in Boxing, and an Unbreakable Constraint in Knockout Blow.

And you guessed correctly that the second Steadfast Protection is taking the place of the PvP +defense IO. The empty slot is for the PvP +resist IO. I meant to mention that, but forgot.

Let's see. I can't say for sure that it's the right decision since I didn't check the alternative, but I figured that +recharge was going to do more good than +damage. My reasoning was that the build is running with a double stack of Rage most of the time, so the percentage improvement from +damage bonuses would be very low. Also, the more I improve +recharge, the more Rage stacks.

I DO like the Knockout Blow -&gt; Haymaker -&gt; Punch -&gt; Jab -&gt; Haymaker -&gt; Punch chain for its smashy smashy purity. I'm also pleased that I at least picked up the “right” pattern for the chain, even if I'm not using the same “filler” attacks. But since Fire Melee was on the table, I figured that Fire Blast would be acceptable, and it does allow for higher DPS than the all smashy chain. It's also nice to have a ranged attack. You could pick up Hurl, but it's not as fast, so not as good for picking up annoying stragglers who seem to think that your teammates are tasty. Mind you, with Taunt recharging in 3.19 seconds, that might be a non-issue. Again, Ice would be even better, but I figured it wasn't on the table.

I'm fine with that, or with Rieze's request for BS/WP earlier in the thread, or with Morbid Star's request to duplicate Shred Monkey's build . Those seem to be the three serious suggestions on the table.

Hmmm, if I have to vote, I think duplicating Shred Monkey's build would be the most interesting. I'm guessing that we could knock out one of the other two more quickly, though.

I'm calculating 135 DPS for my attempt at an Invulnerability/Super Strength DPS tank. So I definitely overestimated when I guessed 150 DPS, but it's still capable of slowly taking out most AVs (slowly). Endurance turned out to be a huge headache. (On a tank! I know!) So I had to back off on some of the slotting and drop the idea for Melt Armor. The DPS calculation is a little high because the build doesn't quite have perma Hasten. It's a little low because you can sometimes hit Hasten during the Rage crash. It's a little high because I didn't count hitting Dull Pain, which you'll probably want for many AV fights. And so on with minor errors. But I'm guessing that its within 5 DPS or so, probably a little on the high side. As far as endurance, it's not quite sustainable, and has an average net loss of 0.21 EPS. Since you have to survive the Rage and Hasten crashes, I'd say you could only safely go for three minutes completely balls out with all your toggles on. Then you need to start making the tough choices about what to turn off (Tough or Weave would do the trick) of if you should slow down slightly.

If anyone wants to review the build or the calculations, here is the spreadsheet, and the build is both below and in the spreadsheet. I'm sure it's not a particularly great tank. Mostly, I'm looking for something for DPS comparison purposes, not claiming that this is a great tank, or even a good AV soloer. Feedback is welcome.

Now for Fire Melee and Energy Melee.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Werthold: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResDam(3), ImpArm-ResPsi(15), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(29), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 1: Jab -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal(21), Dct'dW-Rchg(21)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Hectmb-Dam%(7), EndRdx-I(9)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResDam(11), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(11), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 10: Boxing -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(34), Empty(46)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(15), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17), Mrcl-Heal(19), RgnTis-Regen+(19)
Level 16: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-End%(31)
Level 22: Knockout Blow -- C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), EndRdx-I(27)
Level 24: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(37), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 30: Taunt -- Mocking-Acc/Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(34), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(36), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(36)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(36), HO:Enzym(37)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Armgdn-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Char -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(43)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apoc-Dam%(46), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 49: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet



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[ QUOTE ]
First big question - what is your budget? Top end DPS typically happens at very high levels of recharge, and very high levels of recharge are very expensive. Even if I show, say, that Super Strength does significantly better DPS, it won't matter to you if it only does so at +287% recharge, and you don't have or don't want to spend the influence to get there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for reading my post Ok, I don't care about money, but for the sake of argument and if you don't mind, give me a Balls to the Wall build, and a more achievable priced build (not cheap or economy, but a still very Nice build just not over a billion nice.)

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm fiddling with Super Strength first since it seems to me to be the most Superman like (and also because I have an Invulnerability/Super Strength tanker of my own). Looks like the key to DPS is getting Knockout Blow and Haymaker as often as possible, so you'll want high recharge for those two. Fire looks like the most promising Epic with Fire Blast close behind Haymaker on DPS, and Melt Armor as a possible DPS buff.

Looks like a good DPS chain is Knockout Blow -&gt; Haymaker -&gt; Fire Blast -&gt; Punch -&gt; Haymaker -&gt; Fire Blast at +222% recharge in Knockout Blow. I can actually do about 5% better with Ice Blast and then Chillblain replacing Punch, both for DPS and for secondary effects, but I assume you don't want Ice anything since you didn't want the Ice Melee secondary.

Any Super Strength experts want to tell me if there's a better single-target chain out there?

Now, confirming how Rage works, let's say I have it recharging so that I can activate it every 70 seconds. Every 70 seconds, I'm also going to deal with a rage crash and 10 seconds of the attacks doing so little damage that you might as well just stand there, correct? And then Melt Armor doesn't do any damage anyway, we should be using it near the end of the crash. It lasts 40 seconds, so isn't in tune with an achievable Rage cycle, but we could delay it. Hit Melt Armor and Rage, chain six times, Rage crash, Hit Melt Armor and Rage, chain six times, Rage crash, and so on. Might or might not be the best use of Melt Armor. At +222% recharge, we'll also need to have Hasten in the mix, which is going to be on its own strange cycle.

I'm still on very rough approximations, but I'm guessing this is going to come out around 150 DPS when all is said and done. That's pylon soloing territory if so (though terribly slowly), as well as most AVs.

It's going to be crazy expensive if I can work out an example build, so I guess it'll be the balls to the wall build. I'm also no tanker expert, so if I screw up the tankiness of it, my apologies, and hopefully it will at least make a starting point. And if not that, well, we can at least discuss theoretical high end DPS with it.

(Edit: Looks like I'll want to go with Boxing instead of Punch. Slightly lower DPS and slightly higher recharge, but saves a power pick.)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've got this almost worked out using the formula for a geometric series, but I need to run. Be back later with the final answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have a hit chance of H over N ticks of dot damage then your dot will land an average of:

(1 - H ^ (N+1)) / (1 - H) - 1

times. For example with H=.8 and N = 8 you'd hit an average of (1-.8^9) / (1 - .8) - 1 = 3.329 times.

For a base damage of D1 and a dot damage of D2 the total formula would be:

Total Damage = D1 + D2 * (1-(H^(N+1)) / (1-H) - 1)

If that helps. :-)

[/ QUOTE ]
It would have been helpful if I hadn't already looked up the formula. Actually, it's helpful anyway, since you've basically double-checked what I was thinking, which I was otherwise going to have to ask for.

Here's what I was working on...

OK, I'll back up a little further. Let's say you only have 2 ticks of the DoT. The first one has an 80% chance of hitting, and a 20% chance of failure. Only if it hits do you even get to roll for the second one. So there's only an 80% chance of an 80% chance of hitting with the second one. This pattern continues if there are more ticks. Written out differently, the pattern is this:

AverageDamage
= BaseDamage + 80% * (DotDamage + 80% * (DotDamage + ... ))
= BaseDamage + 80% * DotDamage + 80% * 80% * DotDamage + ...
= BaseDamage + 80% * DotDamage + 80%^2 * DotDamage + ...
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (80%^1 + 80%^2 + ... + 80%^NumTicks)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (0.8^1 + 0.8^2 + ... + 0.8^NumTicks)

Further simplification requires the formula for the series. Let's see, it's just a simple power series, except for the fact that it isn't infinite, but only has N terms. Hmmm, looks like that makes it a geometric series. Ah, here we are:

sum from k = 0 to n of r^k = (1 – r^(n+1))/(1-r)

So...

= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (sum from k = 1 to NumTicks of 0.8^k)

Since 0.8^0 = 1

= BaseDamage + DotDamage * ((sum from k = 0 to NumTicks of 0.8^k ) - 1)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (((1-0.8^(NumTicks+1))/(1-0.8))-1)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (((1-0.8^(NumTicks+1))/0.2)-1)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * ((1/0.2 – 0.8^(NumTicks+1)/0.2)-1)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * ((5 – 0.8^(NumTicks+1)/0.2)-1)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (5 – 0.8^(NumTicks+1)/0.2 - 1)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (4 – 0.8^(NumTicks+1)/0.2)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (4 – 5 * 0.8^(NumTicks + 1))
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (4 – 5 * 0.8 * 0.8^NumTicks)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * (4 – 4 * 0.8^NumTicks)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * 4 * (1 – 0.8^NumTicks)

Now, for the example with two ticks, we have 80% chance of the first tick and 64% chance of the second tick, so to formula above should give us BaseDamage + DotDamage * 1.44.

AverageDamage
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * 4 * (1-0.8^2)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * 4 * (1-0.64)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * 4 * 0.36
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * 1.44

And for your example:

Average Damage
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * 4 * (1-0.8^8)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * 4 * (1-.16777216)
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * 4 * 0.83222784
= BaseDamage + DotDamage * 3.32891136

So it looks like it checks out.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If each DoT has an 80% chance, and the first failure cancels the rest, wouldn't it look like this?

BaseDamage + DotDamage*0.8 + DotDamage*0.8^2 + ... + DotDamage*0.8^NumTicks

[/ QUOTE ]

My algebra sort of sucks, I would go the long way and prepare a lookup table for this... where is Arcanaville when you need her? I know there is a quick way to calculate this, not sure if Sarrate's is the right one but due to current brain deadness I am willing to incline that way.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've got this almost worked out using the formula for a geometric series, but I need to run. Be back later with the final answer.

[ QUOTE ]
Wow that build is nice but it has very little in recharge bonuses.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. For the recharge, I figured Katana didn't need it. It would be nice to have lots of recharge for Dark Regeneration, but I thought I'd try the approach of instead not needing it as often, kind of like my Katana/Regen is a low recharge high defense build. I'll see how it works in practice, some day, maybe. I think I'm in the mid 30s.

To me, the biggest weakness is lack of defense debuff resistance. It's also a little weak against mobs with to hit buffs, as 57% melee defense isn't really enough there. Still, I've had only minor trouble handling those issues with my Katana/Regen, and they're even worse there.

(Edit: The build also reflects my bias towards single hard targets, like slotting Dark Regeneration heavily for healing (a waste in normal play). Still, I fit in Death Shroud and The Lotus Drops to do some passable AoE, and actually took a travel power. So it may be one of the more practical builds I've made, even if it isn't particularly practical overall.)

(Edit 2: Oh, and DPS is on the low side, though I haven't calculated it yet. It'll solo AVs, but it'll do it slowly. It's no Dark Melee/Shield Defense.)