Warrior7
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Posts
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Joined
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Where CoH went wrong?
#1) Same old, same old maps. I understand we are in a city, but seriously? No one thought of an underwater world, the Rikti homeworld, outer space missions, deserts, Antartica? The closest thing we had to a farm world was Croatoa and that still had cities.
#2) Storylines. The first thing developers said after they created AE was "Don't use kill-all missions in your storylines... players generally tend to hate that." And what did they do? Nearly every story arc have kill alls (some have multiples). In addition, many of the story arcs were throw-aways and didn't *really* get good until the end. In the middle of one arc in Independence Port, the entire next mission was to deliver a music CD to the friend of the contact who just happened to be on the other side of the city. Did you notice that ninety percent of the missions happens over 800 yards from your current location? Why? Most of the story arcs weren't good at all--again, in the last year, they've really improved.
#3) The "Random" hit roll generator: I've said this time and time again that the so-called "random" rolls were tainted, but no one listened. CoH was adamant against putting those numbers out there and with good reason. I've finally figured out the reason why the numbers are skewed... different powers produce different numbers with different objects. There is no way in hell they tested EVERY power against every villain and every object in the game. (IE: the inherent technology power of Taser vs. oil slick. Even with my invention sets upping the chance to hit to 95%, I miss 20 - 30% of the time. Bet they didn't test this power to this object).
#4) Poor customer support: When I alerted the devs to this development, my response was (quoting here), "There isn't a problem with it and we're not going to retest the numbers). And if I get never see that generic email again --thank you for telling us your concerns. Be aware that some problems take priority over others and that yours will be evaluated for blah, blah, blah. I've seen that email at least fifty times.
#5) Bugs not being fixed: oil slick has been the bane to pets for YEARS. Not fixed. Mayhem missions will sometimes not produce a hero causing you to fail the mission--been that way for years. Not fixed. Baddies get stuck in walls all the time. Not fixed.
#6) SG bases: And here's a pet peeve of mine. People spend a LOT of time working on their bases. Would it have killed someone to create new base content? Posts dating back to 2007 have asked for fire bases, underwater bases, space bases, underground bases... all of those are graphics already being used in-game! Why not let you add fire (other than the wall torches or lighting bonfire) to the base? The water graphic is in EVERY city, Cave graphics are in caves and temples. That's just laziness.
#7) Contentment by the players: I'm shocked that more players weren't upset when CoH went F2P and came out with new content every month when devoted players were paying fifteen-sixteen bucks a month and getting sporadic content. Realize that the last powers available BEFORE F2P was dual pistols and demon summoning. Since then, a ton of new powers, emotes, costumes, maps..etc have all surfaced--and I mean a LOT of them. This was Paragon's way of saying, "We already have your cash, so we'll take it easy and spoonfeed you bits at a time" versus today's, "We need your cash so we'll slam you with new stuff every second." So much for devotion.
With all those issues, it's very sad to say that the other super powered MMO's are exponentially worse. The next best bet is Champions... wait 'til you see that one!
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Quote:Fair enough, but if igniting the oil slick causes the problem then remove that functionality and replace it with something else like maybe a -res or additional -def or, call me crazy, how about it just automatically catches fire first and then dies out later.Originally Posted by Katie V
Unless I've missed something, you can't set Freezing Rain on fire. The fact that you can ignite OSA makes a huge difference in the mechanics of how the powers work.
See, there are too many fixes for this to be a two year issue. I can see how this wasn't a problem before Lore, but now everyone who's an incarnate can have pets. Granted, TA isn't the most widely used powerset by far, but still.... sheesh. -
Quote:I wish this were the case, I'm getting it all the time--even on off-peak hours. I will admit that it's REALLY bad on the Justice server more than the others, which is strange considering I experience it LESS on Freedom and Virtue.Originally Posted by _Klaw_
It's a lag issue. I used to get it all the time but my net has improved a lot lately and it is rare for me now (but still hits me during peak server load times).
I'm also having problems clicking on doors... I have to click on the floor near the door and not on the door itself. This is true with NPCs and other objects. WTF?
Any devs want to chime in here? -
Okay, I can deal with "can't be fixed." What I can't deal with is "if it's been broken for years, why is it still in the game." Replace it with another power that works!
However, I find it ironic that pets don't flee from Freezing Rain in the storm powerset. It's exactly the same ability! (except that it's ice instead of fire and has a considerably smaller radius than OS). -
Quote:Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Oil Slick Arrow makes Castle cry, even after he's left the game.
Okay, so Castle left almost two years ago and the problem still existed when he was around so the short answer is, "we don't care because not enough people play trick arrow controllers to worry about fixing the bug."
Gotcha! Thanks! -
Sorry for blowing up the boards... guess that's what I get for liking a TA toon.
Has anyone noticed a problem with location AoE's (specifically placing them down)? I notice that when I try to throw down oil slick, disruption arrow, Ice storm...etc. the targeting indicator shows that it's a good spot, but when I click... nothing. I have to move it around in order to find a "good location" for it to work. Now I'm not talking about having the circles standing up--I know you're out of range then. I'm talking about just having it on the floor and then click... click... click... keyboard press.... keyboard press... keyboard press... FINALLY!
Is anyone else having this issue or was my computer built on an ancient burial ground? -
Has anyone else noticed that if you ignite oil slick, the pets will immediately run away from it (which I think is funny because of two reasons: One, the pets are immune to the fire and, Two, I'm on an Illusion controller and the indestructible pets are still running away).
But that's not my gripe.
My issue is the fact that the pets will not longer enter the area even after the "effect" has passed, which can lock pets out of gameplay entirely.
Try this: ignite oil slick and throw whatever pet into the mix. The pet immediately runs out and begins using ranged attacks. A baddie runs away and you follow. Pet stays behind because it "thinks" the effect is still on the ground. When you return, the pet is immobile and will not re-engage. This is killing my Phantasm because he just sits there even when I run back to get him. So one of two things happens in order to prevent this from happening: lose oil slick (one of the best debuffers, soft holds, damage AoE combos in the game) or ditch phantasm--which losing a permanent pet for a controller is absolutely ridiculous.
I'm going to begin recording these issues so I can post them somewhere so you can actually SEE what I'm talking about. Where's a good spot other than youtube? -
Has anyone else noticed that if you ignite oil slick, the pets will immediately run away from it (which I think is funny because of two reasons: One, the pets are immune to the fire and, Two, I'm on an Illusion controller and the indestructible pets are still running away).
But that's not my gripe.
My issue is the fact that the pets will not longer enter the area even after the "effect" has passed, which can lock pets out of gameplay entirely.
Try this: ignite oil slick and throw whatever pet into the mix. The pet immediately runs out and begins using ranged attacks. A baddie runs away and you follow. Pet stays behind because it "thinks" the effect is still on the ground. When you return, the pet is immobile and will not re-engage. This is killing my Phantasm because he just sits there even when I run back to get him. So one of two things happens in order to prevent this from happening: lose oil slick (one of the best debuffers, soft holds, damage AoE combos in the game) or ditch phantasm--which losing a permanent pet for a controller is absolutely ridiculous.
I'm going to begin recording these issues so I can post them somewhere so you can actually SEE what I'm talking about. Where's a good spot other than youtube? -
Quote:Very nice. I can see how AE would be a greater benefit in this situation because of the ability to create larger than normal mobs to give you faster results than normal play.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its combat logs, not simulations. If it were a simulation that I wrote, it couldn't possibly be worth anything in terms of checking the actual game server's random number generators.
During I18 beta I constructed an AE mission designed to test the limits of Fury generation. It occured to me that I could use this same mission to generate millions of tohit rolls, because I was generating several attacks per second in the combat logs; over half a million tohit rolls in a twenty four hour period.
To supplement that, I also analyzed all of my chat logs going back a couple years which are all from normal play. The normal play logs give me hundreds of thousands of tohit rolls which allow me to do some basic statistical analysis, and the AE mass combat rolls allow me to do much higher resolution analysis of the random generator itself over a short period of time.
Thanks again, Arcanaville, you've answered all of my questions. I'm officially done with my part of this thread. -
Quote:First off, I know what the thread title is because I made the thread. Secondly, you'll have to forgive me if I dont trust YOUR opinion... especially considering that you are not a dev. I am open-minded enough to entertain all possibilities and that's why I said that I'll believe it when Arcanaville says it. NOT YOU.Originally Posted by Ironblade
Wow, get over it! Can you explain how you would even do 'simulated' rolls that actually test the game random number generator? Only the devs could do simulations of this. The only way a player can check it is by ACTUAL PLAY.
Of course, you can believe whatever you want. I understand that some people still believe the Earth is flat.
BTW...
The THREAD TITLE is "Random Hit roll counter". The entire thread is about hit rolls.
Secondly, YOU'RE the one that messed up and said "log combat chat" instead of combat rolls. Point the finger at yourself.
Lastly, you're not a dev--I have no reason to believe anything you say. I created this thread to get the devs opinions, not yours. -
Quote:Sorry for the misunderstanding... your original post said, "Log combat chat" which would seem to imply combat logs. You said nothing about combat rolls.Originally Posted by Ironblade
I wasn't saying combat LOGS, I was saying combat ROLLS.
It's not simulations. We had a thread in the market section that was analyzing THOUSANDS of MERIT REWARD ROLLS. Each of those cost someone 20 reward merits. If we can get thousands of merit rolls, getting millions of combat rolls is a walk in the park.
Again, when I hear Arcanaville say that it's not simulations, I'll believe... unless of course, you are a dev.
PS: what was the length of time for receiving the thousands of merit rolls? There's a huge difference between thousands and millions. -
While this is technically true, you *CAN* improve the odds of hitting with a veteran attack. You do it by changing YOUR overall odds to hit. This can be accomplished with set bonuses, which provide global accuracy (i.e. affecting all of your powers) or by powers like Tactics, Focused Accuracy, Targeting Drone, etc. Indirectly, you can also accomplish the same end result by REDUCING the defense of the enemy by debuffing them.[/QUOTE]
That is true excuse.
Your statement is true, but an excuse at the same time. Sure, anyone in the game can get Tactics... a defender/controller/corruptor/mastermind cannot get focused accuracy, targeting drone, or any other power (other than Aim) to improve accuracy). Likewise, the only powers available to them that (primarily) reduce defense is Assault Rifle, storm, and radiation. Your statement is true but it's entirely depended on the AT being used. Khelds cant even use tactics in a transformed state... but then again, they can't use the vet powers either.
A VETERAN player wouldn't purchase complete IO sets for his character until that toon has ascended into at the 40 plus levels--buying them below that would just be stupid. Futhermore, those sets cost a ton of influence, which most toons dont acquire until lvl 50.
Again, you are entirely correct, but sheesh! -
Quote:If that is true then either one of two things are happening: combat logs are being obtained without our knowledge (exceptionally doubtful) or people are submitting their combat logs to devs--which Arcanaville already said doesn't happen. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get millions of combat logs in a relatively (under a year) short amount of time.Originally Posted by Ironblade
Wrong. You are correct when you say simulations are not the same. I think they would be pretty useless. The easiest way to obtain millions of REAL results is to log combat chat while playing normally.
World of Warcraft has the largest amount of subscribers for any MMORPG out there--in 2010 they were estimated at had 11.9 million according to PC Magazine. As of September 2008, City of Heroes had around 124,939 subscribers in the US & Europe, according to financial reports released by NCsoft in November 2008. Let's say that CoH quandrupled than number in two years and rounded it out to 500,000 subscribers. Let's guess that out of that number 50,000 accounts have dead players--subscription holds but the toons havent been played in months. Do you know how many combat logs would have to be retrieved in order to get MILLIONS of combat rolls? With a subscriber rate of half a million, just receiving three million combat rolls would be challenging.
It's simulations... unless Arcanaville says otherwise. It would be too much work to pull all of that info. -
Quote:While I agree with you, IronBlade, I know that there is a difference between running simulations and actually playing the game. That's what I'm talking about here--actual game play. Simulations can only take you so far... it's the players that do "random things" that the computer has never even contemplated that changes the game. Look at how many bugs and/or cheats were discovered by players... not the computer... by people playing the game on a daily basis. Perfect examples: switching costumes while KO'd sometimes brings you back to life with full health, typing /stuck near a mob can sometimes "teleport" you away from them or through objects, and laying down an Oro portal used to generate NPC aggro... it's things like that DAILY players find--not computer simulations. Unless there's an alarm on the RNG that signals the devs when it's not functioning correctly, it will be the players who notice it first because we play the game. In order to obtain millions of results, you are definitely not using gameplay numbers--you are running computer simulations. They arent the same.Originally Posted by Ironblade
Offhand, if you're noting these results manually, you don't have enough data to justify investigation. You need to have automated capture of the data. You need many THOUSANDS of data points to even think about proving anything. Arcanaville said she routinely analyzes MILLIONS of results.
And I have to agree with Immortalus, if streakbreaker is using the attack with the lowest accuracy in a chain of attack, the veteran powers are actually a detriment because they can't be slotted or enhanced. This is really bad news for an AT with relatively no attacks (like Masterminds and bubble defenders who only have three basic attacks and scrappers/tanks that rely upon Nemesis Staff/Blackwand to provide them with at least one ranged attack).
Lastly, I do have one issue about aiming and tohit rolls--large, static objects. I'm sorry, but if I'm in a jail cell less than two feet from the door, my power shouldn't miss. The same is true for dumpsters, trucks...etc. It's frustrating when you receive three misses in a row when you are trying to hit something that in real life is IMPOSSIBLE to miss. Inanimate objects should be given a "point blank" feature that guarantees a 100% hit ratio within melee range. -
Quote:Well, that actually explains a lot... most of the research I've done is by using the information in the hitroll counters and in the combat logs. If the player is "hit" but it doesn't register on the logs or in the hit roll tabs (because it's not supposed to), then that drastically alters my conceptions.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
No, that's not what's happening. Look closer. If an attack actually lands on you while Hibernate is up, the combat chat doesn't print anything at all. I think that is a bug, in other cases where the target is unaffected by the attack something prints (at least as of the last time I recall) but I confirmed the behavior of Hibernate just now. If the attacker misses you'll get a combat spam message with the miss message. But if it hits you there's no message at all. So you'll only see the tohit rolls that happen to miss, not the ones that happen to hit.
As far as I know, nothing "modifies" the tohit roll. its the chance to hit that is modified. There's only one exception to that rule, and its not an exception that you'll likely see direct evidence of, and won't show itself in the combat spam as a modified tohit roll (that exception is tohit rolls used in special formulas within Requires or Magnitude clauses: people familiar with the mechanics I'm talking about will know what I'm referring to).
Just so you understand where Evil_legacy and I are coming from, this is the equivalent of you taking your car into the mechanic and saying, "it just doesn't sound right" and having the mechanic say that it's fine. Even if there was a problem with the car, there's nothing you could do to fix it or investigate it. Your choices are to drive the car and push your thoughts aside or walk. I play this game for hours every single day and trust it to provide me the entertainment I require for the price I pay each month. I just want to make sure that everything's kosher. Again, not complaining, but I want you to understand where I'm coming from.
With that being said, thanks for the explanations. -
Quote:Yes, but the opposite isn't true... if you are protected from hits (or if the NPC is protected from the power) the combat log doesn't say, "Protected" or "Cannot be used" instead it generates a number that cannot fall into the "hitting" range.Originally Posted by Ironblade
Absolutely. It's phrased something like: "Hit! Your Hack attack was forced to hit by the streakbreaker."
I've noticed with with Hibernate specifically--it's a power I use a lot. I haven't been hit once while in the middle of it (though I've been killed many times while activating it but that's a subject for another forum). Instead of it generating a message saying "you are protected from hits," the hitroll counter never allows the NPC to land a successful hit... which is part of my confusion with the hit roll generator.
Case in point... A lvl 50 blaster in hibernate against a group of lvl 54 bosses:
Gunslinger MISSES! Incendiary Round power had a 29.78% chance to hit, but rolled a 56.20.
Gunslinger MISSES! Explosive Tip power had a 29.78% chance to hit, but rolled a 42.22.
Tactical Operative MISSES! Brawl power had a 70.13% chance to hit, but rolled a 92.22.
Operation Officer MISSES! Brawl power had a 80.69% chance to hit, but rolled a 81.37.
actical Operative MISSES! Adv Assault Rifle power had a 15.53% chance to hit, but rolled a 30.12.
Tactical Operative MISSES! Brawl power had a 70.13% chance to hit, but rolled a 72.12.
Tactical Operative MISSES! Taser power had a 22.98% chance to hit, but rolled a 30.58.
Operation Officer MISSES! Taser power had a 26.44% chance to hit, but rolled a 31.81.
Tactical Operative MISSES! Brawl power had a 65.50% chance to hit, but rolled a 82.70.
Gunslinger MISSES! Explosive Tip power had a 20.91% chance to hit, but rolled a 66.04.
Tactical Operative MISSES! Taser power had a 22.98% chance to hit, but rolled a 69.55.
Operation Officer MISSES! Brawl power had a 75.37% chance to hit, but rolled a 85.59.
This goes on the entire time I'm in hibernate. Now if I go to Talos and rough up a group of lvl 21 Tsoo with a 5% chance of hitting me, I'll get hit at least one time in thirty seconds (depending on the size of the group). This confuses me. So I'm thinking that the hit roll counter "knows" when to hit and when not to hit. This is show in Arcanaville's posting where Elude is used and the NPC's miss every time.
The inverse of this is also true. I took on a lvl 52 Class Titan and my flame powers missed each time... in exactly the same manner as hibernate. So I took it one step farther... I went to Sirens Call with my Ill/Storm and tried to deceive a villain drone. After twelve attempts, I landed a successful hit but a message popped up saying that the drone could not be deceived or confused. If that's the case, why show the hit rolls? -
Quote:Very nice, I never knew that.Originally Posted by Tylerst
It's due to controller's 'overpower'
Every controller control has a chance to deal an extra mag 1 mez on top of the base hit.
Decieve has a 20% chance for it.
(Generally it's 20%, though for some, like AoE immobilize, it's 50%)
You will also see this occurance in anything that has an extra chance to do something.
IE: energy melee bone smasher, 60% chance for stun, would have an extra 60% to-hit roll to check the stun
So I'm guessing this has it's own separate hitroll and is not affected by streakbreaker or the ilk. I'm also assuming (yeah, I know... never assume) that the number isn't affected by tohit buffs or powers like Tactics. Is that correct?
One more thing, according to paragonwiki, NPC's also have streakbreaker. How is this factored into hit rolls? -
Quote:You would be incorrect on that... here's what I have:Originally Posted by NordBlast
I bet you have Coersive or Malaise proc in deceive. So one hit roll for power itself, another (20%) is for proc.
Coercive Persuasion: Confuse (Superior) ,
Coercive Persuasion: Confuse/Recharge (Superior) ,
Coercive Persuasion: Confuse/Recharge/Accuracy (Superior) ,
Coercive Persuasion: Recharge/Accuracy (Superior) ,
Coercive Persuasion: Confuse/Endurance (Superior)
I DO NOT have the contagious confusion proc. I only have these enhancements. Therefore, there shouldn't be an additional power being counted. -
Quote:I will definitely PM you for that analysis.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I've checked the random number generator four times in the last six years. The most recent test for randomness was a test I completed the first phase of a few weeks ago after accumulating about 5 million random rolls (I'm eventually going to do a 100 million random roll analysis, once I have enough random rolls).
So far, I have discovered no evidence of non-random behavior. If you are logging chat and have all of the tohit rolls logged, and are willing to submit your findings to independent analysis, PM me and I will arrange to have your logs' random rolls analyzed.
Part of the problem that I am seeing (and I've petitioned this several times and didnt get an answer) is that I'm receiving a "double" roll for a single hit. The controller power, Deceive, shows this the best--but I've seen it scattered across a few other powersets as well. If you try to deceive a target, you get this on the hit roll screen:
MISSED Possessed Scientist!! Your Deceive power had a 20.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 87.69.
HIT Possessed Scientist! Your Deceive power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 65.89.
That result comes from ONE use of the power on one target. So which one is the correct one? This is another reason why I believe the counter is skewed... if both are being registered--or even one counting while the other is "dismissed"--you can't tell me that it won't affect the results. -
Dont know if anyone noticed or not, but the random hit roll counter is at least 10% standard calculations. My blaster has a 95% chance of hitting a possessed scientist minion of same rank. I battled this person twenty times and took the hit/miss calculations directly from the hit roll tab and dumped them into an Excel spreadsheet. The 95% actually turned into 82%!
What's worse is the defense. I've soft-capped the defense for the exact same minion and ran the numbers again. According to the hit roll tab, the scientist had a 6.51% chance of hitting me. After one hundred attempts, the enemy struck me twelve times--far more than a 6.51% chance!
Now I know what you are thinking... different attacks have different accuracy bonuses (a Warhulk's flamethrower has a smaller percentage to hit than it's chain-gun). In my calculations, I filtered out the other attacks and only used the possessed scientist's base attack (Gale in this case).
The "random" hit rolls are not generating numbers at random--this can easily be proven by looking at the tab when using hibernate. The "random" numbers are all programmed to miss when using that power. Unless the NPC's have streakbreaker, there's no way the numbers could be accurate.
Check for yourselves.