Walden

Oops!

Can confirm I did use same AAO numbers for both calculations.

I definitely appreciate the explanation though...time to get some SOs and see what scrappers have to offer!

Wow, what a great answer.

Now everything makes sense.

Although the base damage is a factor, the missing link for me was how damage scales.

I didn't realize the big difference was that +X% damage was applied differently between the two ATs.

In order to help wrap my brain around some of these break points I made some tables to help.

I figured I would post them here if someone had a similar question.

If anyone sees an error, please let me know.

By the way, neither of them have any enhancements slotted, since I wanted to compare apples to apples.

Turns out that was my problem...brutes are significantly better without any enhancement slots, but that isn't a

situation that models playing the real game at all, and therefore is not very relevant to making a decision.


1) Comparing Scrapper to Brute damage with no SOs and no Damage bonus:

SCRP 0 1.2375
1 1.2375
2 1.2375
3 1.2375
4 1.2375
5 1.2375
6 1.2375
7 1.2375
8 1.2375

BRT 0 0.75
1 0.9
2 1.05
3 1.2 (Breakpoint as Werner mentioned)
4 1.35
5 1.5
6 1.65
7 1.8
8 1.95

(These are the fury levels in 10% increments)

*I listed SCRP fury levels even though it's not a real mechanic because I found not getting more powerful as a

fight progressed a difficult mechanic to adjust to versus Fury.

2) Now with SOs [Nothing Else]

SCRP 0 2.35125
1 2.35125
2 2.35125
3 2.35125
4 2.35125
5 2.35125
6 2.35125
7 2.35125
8 2.35125

BRT 0 1.425
1 1.575
2 1.725
3 1.875
4 2.025
5 2.175
6 2.325 (Break for SOs)
7 2.475
8 2.625

(The Brute will take some time to catch up in this fight)

3) 5 Target AAO (SOs)

SCRP 0 2.7534375
1 2.7534375
2 2.7534375
3 2.7534375
4 2.7534375
5 2.7534375
6 2.7534375
7 2.7534375
8 2.7534375

BRT 0 1.66875
1 1.81875
2 1.96875
3 2.11875
4 2.26875
5 2.41875
6 2.56875
7 2.71875
8 2.86875


4) 10 Target AAO (SOs)

SCRP 0 3.155625
1 3.155625
2 3.155625
3 3.155625
4 3.155625
5 3.155625
6 3.155625
7 3.155625
8 3.155625

BRT 0 1.9125
1 2.0625
2 2.2125
3 2.3625
4 2.5125
5 2.6625
6 2.8125
7 2.9625
8 3.1125

5) AAO(10)+SOs+BONUS

SCRP 0 3.650625
1 3.650625
2 3.650625
3 3.650625
4 3.650625
5 3.650625
6 3.650625
7 3.650625
8 3.650625

BRT 0 2.2125
1 2.3625
2 2.5125
3 2.6625
4 2.8125
5 2.9625
6 3.1125
7 3.2625
8 3.4125

*Bonus is defined as 1 small red inspiration with the Offensive Amplifier running


So I definitely learned something new today.

Thanks for the great post Werner.

(I hope I didn't make any mistakes)

Hi everyone, I am a pretty new player and have some questions that have been lingering a bit.

Thus far I have played a dominator to 30, a mastermind to 30, a crab spider to 45, a brute to 50, and since then rolled just about every brute imaginable under the sun (with varying degrees of success).

I can honestly say the AT is a thing of beauty and I love it.

The current brute I am ripping through gold-side content with is a Stone Melee/Firey Aura brute.

The insane damage on the single target attacks is just scary.

- - - -

But I really wanted to try a positional defense set as well, and people seem to love Shield Defense on scrappers.

To be totally honest, I wanted to create a character with subdued visual effects that played similarly to the style of stone melee with huge bone-crushing attacks.

So I rolled a WM/SD scrapper.

Both the scrapper and the brute are at level 10 right now. Both of them are super fun to play, and it's great to just smash stuff. The lack of AoEs can be somewhat annoying given the number of ambushes in Praetoria and other oddities.

I often feel very unprepared when I am faced with a number of targets. I suppose this is where those 2 sets will really diverge, with the War Mace character picking up as much in terms of AoEs as my level 50 staff fighting brute.

- - - -

But I noticed something strange that started nagging me. I took every single attack on both characters as soon as it became available so I could get a feel for which attacks I liked, and have good rounded out options for a decent attack chain.

Well I didn't feel any significant difference in the damage between the two characters...if anything, the scrapper definitely feels like it does less damage.

So I went in and looked more at the powers. I realized Clobber is the equivalent of Seismic Smash (a power I've never seen or used), and that means I've actually been comparing Clobber and Heavy Mallet.

Furthermore, I decided to run 2 missions (the same mission) on each character, and that's where things got really scary. I realized the Brute was doing A LOT more damage.

The reality is that the SM attacks at that level should all be inferior.

Additionally, even with pretty minimal fury, the scrapper attacks vs. the brute attacks aren't that dissimilar in damage.

The problem is the actual mission performance. Once the brute gets into the thick of things are the heat starts rising on the old fury bar, there is no way the scrapper could possibly compete. I have no problem staying above the 50% or so mark, and that means my attacks were doing A LOT more damage than the scrapper.

What is going on?

- - - -

Here is why I'm confused.

As a new player, there are tons of posts comparing the two ATs and saying that Scrapper vs. Brute is really just like choosing between two flavors of ice cream.

What am I missing? Experientally this doesn't appear to be the case.

In some cases the Brute is easily doing 40% more damage.

I realize that there are tons of factors in place like teaming in the higher levels,etc.

But in all honesty, for the majority of solo content I can't really imagine how the scrapper version could ever keep up with the brute's massive damage bonus from fury.

My understanding is that the attacks would be stronger to make up for the lack of fury. But within maybe 5 seconds of fighting that minimal difference in attack strength has erroded. And once the fury bar is chug-a-lugging up there, I can't imagine many scenarios in which maces would be worse on a brute.

Did I pick the wrong AT?

I feel that there has to be SOMETHING I'm missing, I just don't know what it is.

If even at the damage cap the differences are minimal, why would you endure the duress of being so lackluster at all other moments of your career when you WEREN'T there, and the consequences of not having fury were so real and tangible?

I should also note that I took both CoF as well as Oppressive Gloom because I thought it would be fun with Fault to just kind of go maxed out on soft controls.

If this makes me the worst player in the world or if this is the absolute worst idea ever, please let me know.

I am not a proud person when it comes to taking advice.

I have played the dominator and enjoyed it.

I do quite like that style of play.

Hi everyone.

I'm pretty new to the game and am really enjoying the brute so far.

I have been playing a TW/DA brute and the flow of TW just doesn't feel right to me.

I have really enjoyed the stone melee set, but I've been indecisive about what to pair it with.

I decided to see if SM/DA could produce a similarly competitive build to what TW offered.

I will be honest...out of laziness I just threw some of the sets in just to test the bonuses in the totals tab. I didn't really bother to choose the correct enhancements in some cases.

The bottom line is that I have just run out of time and brain cells on shifting things around in this build and figured i'd throw it out there.

The number one problem i see right now is that Seismic Smash is woefully underslotted, but presumably this should be my blockbuster power.

I just can't seem to move slots without losing my E/N softcap.

Here is the build:

(I should also note i borrow heavily from a build planet_j posted...so credit to him)


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.957
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

SOME BRUTE: Level 50 Mutation Brute
Primary Power Set: Stone Melee
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Stone Fist

• (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
• (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
• (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
• (5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 1: Dark Embrace

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (7) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (7) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• (9) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 2: Death Shroud

• (A) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff
• (5) Eradication - Damage
• (11) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (11) Fury of the Gladiator - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (13) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (13) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge

Level 4: Murky Cloud

• (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
• (15) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
• (17) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (17) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (19) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (19) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 6: Stone Mallet

• (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
• (15) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
• (21) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
• (21) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 8: Build Up

• (A) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff/Recharge
• (25) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff

Level 10: Obsidian Shield

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (27) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (27) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (29) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 12: Heavy Mallet

• (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
• (23) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
• (33) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
• (46) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
• (46) Hecatomb - Damage

Level 14: Fault

• (A) Mocking Beratement - Recharge
• (29) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge/Range
• (31) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Range
• (31) Mocking Beratement - Accuracy/Recharge

Level 16: Dark Regeneration

• (A) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (36) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge
• (36) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (37) Theft of Essence - Chance for +Endurance
• (37) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration
• (37) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge

Level 18: Seismic Smash

• (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (31) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
• (43) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
• (43) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• (50) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold

Level 20: Cloak of Darkness

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

Level 22: Boxing

• (A) Empty

Level 24: Tough

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (25) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (33) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (34) Reactive Armor - Endurance/Recharge

Level 26: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

Level 28: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (33) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 30: Cloak of Fear

• (A) Nightmare - Endurance/Fear
• (40) Nightmare - Accuracy/Endurance
• (42) Nightmare - Fear/Range

Level 32: Tremor

• (A) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (34) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (34) Eradication - Damage/Recharge
• (39) Superior Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (42) Superior Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (42) Superior Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

Level 35: Gloom

• (A) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
• (36) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
• (39) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (40) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (40) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (48) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

Level 38: Oppressive Gloom

• (A) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun

Level 41: Combat Jumping

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

Level 44: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

Level 47: Dark Obliteration

• (A) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown
• (48) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
• (48) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
• (50) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (50) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge

Level 49: Soul Transfer

• (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge

Level 1: Brawl

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Empty

Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift

• (A) Run Speed IO

Level 4: Health

• (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
• (43) Miracle - +Recovery

Level 4: Hurdle

• (A) Jumping IO

Level 4: Stamina

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (45) Performance Shifter - EndMod
• (46) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge

Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Warworks Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany
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