Vindicus

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You'll note that some players have asked for such tools -- the option of HO-free matches or some way to see who has slotted how many HOs.

Oddly enough this doesn't seem popular with the pro-HO crowd.

Shall we venture a guess as to why...

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Excellent question. I'll be looking to see if anyone answers it as I plow through this thread.

So...why are the HO users not in favor of having the ability to see other player's enhancements? You don't have to think about it very long, do you?

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Here you go, my viewpoint from a previous post which I will provide here so you don't have to dig through 670 posts.

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Ok, I can agree to an option to display an enemy's hami enhancement count. What I would NOT agree to is being able to view another player's build. In a PvP environment, I would consider my build to be sacred, and I wouldn't want to have a bunch of shmucks copying my build if it was found to be successful.

An option to turn Hami enhancements off? Lovely, so the players who covet their Hami enhancements will turn down fights in which they are asked to set them aside. I see this creating the same segregation in PvP that unrestricted Hami O's would foster (providing a way to view a prospective opponents Hami O's is implemented).


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I'm not opposed to players being able to make informed decisions. I'm opposed to "players who have invested their time and have obtained rewards legitimately" being treated as though they did something wrong.

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Like I said, bring on the additional means to acquire Hami O's. Yes, I have quite a few, but not nearly as many as the bastards who KSed buds before the reward system was changed. If I were more like you I would be screaming to have those people nerfed somehow, because they are going to beat me every time in the arena. But I really don't care about that, I'm doing my best to cope with the impact that Hami O's *could* have on PvP. I suggest you do the same because they aren't going anywhere. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best, that's all any of us can do until I4 hits.

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another hero who's already lost in his mind. I for one will laugh at every single person worried about PvP when i beat a person w/ HO's w/ my lvl 36 toon w/ all trainers. I will laugh so hard at all of you that your moms will be embarassed to have given birth to you. The whole community as a whole can laugh at you because you lost before PvP came out. And, to top it off - you knew it.

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I think you misunderstood me. I am not saying I am automatically going to lose to the aforementioned Bud farmers, I was saying that is the self-defeatist stance so many people seem to be taking. I'm doing my end-game content (Hami being pretty much the ONLY lvl 50 content), so I will be prepared for the worst.
Please direct your authoritah elsewhere.

I've read quite a bit actually, but after 65 pages of this @#$%@# thread it's starting to run together. I'm not opposed to alternative means of acquiring "Hami O's", but someone will have to come up with a new nickname for them.

I hope they do come up with additional means of legitimately acquiring them; maybe then people will stop griping about their insecurities with PvP.
With all this sensational controversy surrounding Hami O's, raid attendance has skyrocketed. This is causing incredible lag. So yes, it's an even better time to come up with some new end-game content to broaden the distribution of "Hami O's".

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Tell me why this would be bad for a change rather than why Hami is so good.
I bet the best answer you can give me is "I gots em and I don't want anyone else ta".

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Like I said, bring on the additional means to acquire Hami O's. Yes, I have quite a few, but not nearly as many as the bastards who KSed buds before the reward system was changed. If I were more like you I would be screaming to have those people nerfed somehow, because they are going to beat me every time in the arena. But I really don't care about that, I'm doing my best to cope with the impact that Hami O's *could* have on PvP. I suggest you do the same because they aren't going anywhere. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best, that's all any of us can do until I4 hits.

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Reading forums and testing builds are activities equally open to all players. Hami raids, either by your schedule or the makeup of your server or "who you know" or all three, are not. The time investment between reading a few forums is infintesimal versus going on 120 Hami raids per character (1 in 3 drops get you what you want toward your 40 HO by my estimates). You can also read and post to forums while doing many other things where a Hami raid does require a little bit of attention

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Sorry but I have many problems with this paragraph. First of all, Hami Raids are not exclusionary in the least. They are completely open, versus the instanced raids that exist in games like WoW.

Second, there is no such thing as a useless drop, as far as I have experienced. One man's trash is another man's treasure. There is most likely someone of a different AT on the other side of the crater holding what you want, hoping to trade for what you got.

I would prefer picking the enhancement reward, and not permitting trading of Hami O's as I have previsouly stated. Then the Hami O economy would be solidified.

Lastly, Hami raids are not the tremendous time-sink that some people are making them out to be (at least not on the Freedom server). An hour's investment is all it requires. The only other event in the game that offers a comparable time vs. reward is the respec trial. If anything, the Hami raids are too quick and easy, but I guess you can chalk that up to good raid leaders.

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Again, it's a ridiculous time scale versus reasonable ones. People have no problem getting beaten by someone who spends their time practicing SKILLS. HamiO's are ITEMS. We hope to have the devs see the light on this one. MMO vets such as myself have seen them break the routine MMO mold many times before so we are holding out hope.

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If you want a level playing field for PvP, an MMORPG is not the place to find it. I suggest you go over and find some Quake 3 Arena, or perhaps UT2K4.

An MMORPG is a persistent world where our gaming experiences accumulate. To throw out a players supposed advantage because you don't want to make the same time investment is preposterous IMO.

And before you go referencing the EBAY trolls, I have already stated that as a deal-breaker: I truly think the reward system should be changed to allow a player to select their reward in the Hami raid. This in conjunction with not allowing the trade of Hami enhancements would bind such rewards to those that earned them to begin with, and ensure the reward you receive is a useful one.

Just curious, do you have a character between 45 and 50? If so, do you ever attend raids?

Ok, I can agree to an option to display an enemy's hami enhancement count. What I would NOT agree to is being able to view another player's build. In a PvP environment, I would consider my build to be sacred, and I wouldn't want to have a bunch of shmucks copying my build if it was found to be successful.

An option to turn Hami enhancements off? Lovely, so the players who covet their Hami enhancements will turn down fights in which they are asked to set them aside. I see this creating the same segregation in PvP that unrestricted Hami O's would foster (providing a way to view a prospective opponents Hami O's is implemented).

As for the acquisition of Hami O's, I certainly don't condone the selling of them on Ebay. If Cryptic had the resources to track this and punish people for it, they should. Of course that's impossible. I can't really concieve of a way to prevent such players from gaining an advantage, short of changing the Raids to allow a player to select his/her reward, and then making Hami enhancements non-tradeable...

Oh, and grats on 1000 posts Lady!

<sarcasm>Why don't we just throw slotting out the window all-together? It isn't going to be fair to those people who couldn't/wouldn't attend raids. Also, it isn't fair to people who don't spend gobs and gobs of time on the forums gleening information on the best ways to slot their powers.

It isn't fair that some forum*Bleep* knows the ideal way to slot Cloak of Fear and I don't. I have a life and I don't have time to read the forums and find the best way to slot my powers. My opponent has an unfair advantage based on this. Remove all slotting in PvP!!
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This argument makes about as much sense as the "remove Hami O's from PvP" argument. It has already been stated that when facing an opponent of a significant level difference that you will be auto-exemplared, thus reducing the benefits of Hami O's to SO level effectiveness. Yes, the owner of a cache of Hami's has an advantage, but not to the degree of a heavy-weight matchup.

There is honestly no way to make the PvP Arena a completely level playing field. How would you factor in game experience? I don't mean XP, I mean experience playing the game, and having strategic knowledge of the various powers and how best to utilize them in any given situation. Is this kind of advantage ok?

Good, Im glad we agree that this advantage is ok. Well surprise! That kind of knowledge is a result of a time investment, just as Hami O's are a result of time investment. The fact that Hami O's are a tangible object, and game knowledge isn't, does not make a case to remove Hami O's from PvP.

I honestly don't see the developers removing the Hami O advantage from the game. Hami O's are another carrot dangled in front of high level players to keep them playing the game. If you remove the incentive to do Hami raids, you remove one of the only reasons any level 50 character has to continue playing the game. (at least for those players who constantly seek advancement in their characters' lives)

Would being able to view an opponents Hami enhancement count satisfy most opponents of Hami O's in PvP?

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Lady Sadako: L44 Storm/Psychic Defender (Virtue)

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Somebody PL this Lady to 45 so she can attend a few raids!

I find it interesting that some folks would endorse having a TF that gave out Hami O's. Is a TF not just as big of a time sink? To make matters worse, people could just do TF's over and over, with no spawn timer to worry about.

It would open up a new venue for people seeking Hami O's that cannot or will not attend raids, but farmers and "hardcore" players with loads of time would receive the greatest benefit.
I don't think you really want to exacerbate this issue more than it has already been..