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CITY OF VILLAINS

Powers

* Increased Dominator Melee damage modifier to 0.75 -- this increases their melee damage by 6.7%

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Oh baby. This is good news. Now all they need to do is buff ranged to 70% and all damage complaints should cease. I'm celebrating right now. This is a step in the right direction!

These page long quotefests are starting to grate on my nerves @_@ I give up on the Toggle Dropper thread.

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Okay, it's fair for melee to PVP as if they don't have shields. At the same time, it's fair for defenders to PVP as if they don't have any buffs or debuffs. It's also fair for blasters to PVP as if they don't have any melee attacks. It's fair for Controllers to PVP as if they don't have any control. Masterminds should be playing as if they don't have pets.

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For the most part, until the Domination PvP change, we Dominators HAD to pretend we didn't have Control. Now we only have to pretend Control isn't there until we get 12 or so attacks with our secondary off. Assuming Domination is recharged and we don't get smushed by a melee, that is.

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Yeah..
I wish I'd got /energy or /ice
I think I would have liked both of those, although /psy jsut fits so well with my char concept. Really, they should just up /psy's damage to match the other sets. It's a disturbingly weak damage set, with no benefits, unless -recharge is a more huge than I'm noticing.

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The defender set's -recharge is quite noticeable for me, but that might not translate well to the Dominator side. Even then, I only got my Emp/Psi to 5 or so, so all I had was Mental Blast and Subdue lol.

Actually, I think the Psi-cops are weak to Smashing. Levitate seems to own them nicely.

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Wow, I have a mind/psy dominator. And while the New mayhem missions made me feel really weak and pathetic, and PVP always makes me feel like i picked the worse too ever. I solo on relentless, and I have, basically since I managed to do my respec and got rid of TD and that lovely attack Mental Blast.

I die a bit when i duo/trio but that's because I tend to play a bit too much like a Brute.

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Fishw0rk said Mayhem Missions were gonna suck for /Psi's lol. I'm just glad I went /Energy. Everything seems to be weak to Energy in mayhem missions.

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Not really a fitting comparison and you know it Hollow. I don't agree with John either, and I think Dominators are much more survivable than he portrays. But please don't compare our reliance on domination to a stalkers hide/AS abilities. And while they may rule in PvP, I do recall a number of posters asking for Stalker PvE buffs as they do get squished quite easily pre-so's.

And to address the actual topic of this thread, and our straying from it, the reason we have gone off on so many tangents is precisely because there are so few changes to Dominators. Look, we've tested the improved PvP dom buildup and overall reduction in it's recharege time. They are pretty damn straight forward and we do like them. The reason this thread has gone on as it has is becuase those changes don't really fix the imbalances they were meant to address. They are a good start, but I think the overall feeling is that we're still a long way off.

Please remember, it's really not just a simple question of can we kill three even con minions, or can we kill another player in PvP. It's a matter of how we do these things and what we offer to other players in a team setting. Playing as a Dominator is substantially more difficult than perhaps every other AT. I know a lot of people point to this and say "Good! Dom's take smarts, take tactics, it's a challenge." And that is a very valid viewpoint. However, as the game difficulty continues to increase in the 40-50 levels and PvP zones, tactics may not be enough to overcome some of our imbalances. I don't think the challenge of playing a Dom should simply be a matter of can we survive long enough to pop domination. And I don't think the AT or game difficulty should be based around that 90 seconds of Domination, but I think that at the moment they are.

Sorry if this seems like another tanget, but it is from playing on Test with the new changes to Domination that I am now squarely of the opinion that it should actually be toned down, so that our primary and secondary powers can receive an overall buff without making us uber when domination goes off.

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People have been suggesting this for a loooooong time. I'm hoping it actually happens now.

I have a ton of lowbie Dominators and none of them have any trouble soloing white cons. It makes me wonder what powers he took and how he slotted them.

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Dominators are a one-trick pony.
Domination is all they have. Without it they're inferior to everything else. Everything.

Three white-con minions? Yeah, they can kick your butt. Seriously. I wish I was joking.

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Wow. Even I think this is a little extreme, lol. When you can't kill three white-con minions it's time to ask questions about your build.

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Can we stay on topic??? Wow!!! I didn't realize we 're all egomaniacs. Quit fighting guys and gals. I never thought I 'de say this about my dom's. But after playing test for 2 days in both pvp and pve I feel more disinheartened than when Ed hit. I feel more disenheartened than when they killed my fire tanker with i5 and all of those nerfs.I'm sure some of you remeber the horridness unleashed in i5. It might have been 4, I've been here tooo long to remeber.
I come here for a breathe of fresh air and expect Fish to make me feel better with a new testing tidbit.
I'm not a doom crier but I think doms are as the devs want them . Make the best of it and be happy Or cry like me!!!!!

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And you were so quick to point out a few days ago that anyone having problems with a Dominator didn't know how to play one. Was that denial?

Although, I gotta admit, with the PvE Confuse change I've never felt more powerful there so I guess I'm not feeling that agony of the I5 nerfs because I'm not a PvPer nor have I been around that long.

Well, if I ever decide to PvP I'll have to slot up Power Bolt and possibly take Power Push because of its ridiculously huge acc bonus.

Sorry to hear you're having problems, Ditzy. But if you're having problems, and you were one of the people who would come here to tell us how great you were doing with your multiple 40 doms, you're likely not going to see anything different from those of us who think we need boosts.

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Many of us like Doms already, right now on live they are pretty viable solo and teamed in PvE dispise the lack of damage we could use. But now with secondary attacks concentrating on domination buildup in PvP, the solution is to up our damage in both PvE and PvP, or add in power buildup as suggested earlier.

It makes no real sense that Controller gets containment and does much more damage through it when they should capitolize on holds and control while buff/debuff and Doms should be more focused on damage if we cannot get the same control power Controllers do.

Also devs should redo Doms' PPP, end of story.

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While I like Dominators, I do think we aren't perfect. I am a huge hypocrite when it comes to the whole damage issue >.> Damage is not the problem for me - but that's only because I have never played anything with high damage past 5. My problem is the amount of Control we don't have outside of Domination.

The PPPs are just a slap in the face. A weak as hell AoE that won't generate more Domination for us in PvP, end drain that isn't even as good as the ones we get from our secondaries, and pets that aren't even perma. While I would have liked the AoEs, they suck as they are now because they do crap damage. The end drain is something we don't need because we already have Control and most of us don't have end problems once we get Stamina anyway. The pets are a poor excuse for a final power because most of us already get pets and those of us that don't are frankly insulted that they aren't perma. The only good things in them are the armors.

What we could have used:

ST Hold - This I would actually like for stacking in PvP
Defensive Armor
Strong as Hell attack (AoE or ST, Melee or Ranged)
Mez Protection Toggle

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Got a PM from castle. You will only generate 8 points of domination if you hit the player target in pvp.

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Wait. We build Domination in PvP by scoring a HIT, not just by attacking?

VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: does this mean that if we fire off an AoE, we get 8 points per hit, or just eight points if we hit at least one target? In fact, since PBAoEs don't even HAVE selected targets, player OR mob, how does THAT work?

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Well I would think we get bonus points for every hit but for the sets that don't have meaningful AoEs...

>.>

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COMPLAINING ABOUT THE AT AS A WHOLE IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD

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Like it or not, Doms are the way they are. Don't like it? Shut up and play a different AT. What we are here for, what this Thread is here for, is to pay attention to the changes Issue 7 is implementing. If you want to endlessly debate the pro's and cons of the AT and how you're not doing enough damage or our controls aren't as long as a controller's has absolutely NOTHING to do with finding bugs in the current changes and/or reporting on how they effect gameplay.

Things are how they are, now shut up and go to RV (assuming it doesn't crash for you -_-') and try out building Domination on a pvp team. Go try PvE and maybe push for 41 to start trying PPP's. But for God's sake do NOT turn this thread into the Domination section, leave it as the "Official Thread for Dominator Changes"

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You will only generate 8 points of domination if you hit the player target in pvp. AS DESIGNED, AAAAAAAAAAA. Why does no one care!?

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I care. The ONLY ranged attack worth slotting in my secondary is Power Blast...now I have to waste a slot on Power Bolt too? And if I don't want to get owned do I have to take Power PUSH and slot it with an acc so I can have a ranged attack chain?

If this is how things are going to be, either we should generate extra points from our Primary and pool powers as well, or we should be able to get at least a 75% chance to drop toggles with both our TD powers. So far I'm not liking the changes at all.

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COMPLAINING ABOUT THE AT AS A WHOLE IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD

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Like it or not, Doms are the way they are. Don't like it? Shut up and play a different AT. What we are here for, what this Thread is here for, is to pay attention to the changes Issue 7 is implementing. If you want to endlessly debate the pro's and cons of the AT and how you're not doing enough damage or our controls aren't as long as a controller's has absolutely NOTHING to do with finding bugs in the current changes and/or reporting on how they effect gameplay.

Things are how they are, now shut up and go to RV (assuming it doesn't crash for you -_-') and try out building Domination on a pvp team. Go try PvE and maybe push for 41 to start trying PPP's. But for God's sake do NOT turn this thread into the Domination section, leave it as the "Official Thread for Dominator Changes"

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Don't provoke him. He's been doing really well so far.

Fact of the matter is, if it's not one thing it's another. We're happy you like Dominators, but we honestly believe something needs to be done, either with us having 80% Controller Durations and lowish damage or our PPPs being gimptastic.

Our AT isn't as good as you seem to think.

EDIT: AND, as Shrike pointed out, our bonus Domination only working if something hits isn't a bug. If that's the case, why is the only thing that generates more Domination our SECONDARY? It's not like we were overpowered with toggle droppers.

Sweet. So are we gonna get back to flaming the devs about toggle droppers instead of flaming each other now? ^^

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if i were a dev, yes- it would. but only because my ears were muffled by my asscheeks. (i really hope asscheeks makes it through the filter)

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I don't know why on Earth it did, but I'm afraid I've got to quote for righteousness there. It'll be gone by tomorrow morning, still, but given that "Count" is probably still censored on the game servers, it's a nice victory.

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I remember that. Funniest bug ever.

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Dominators need to be completly analyzed by the devs and they need to run the numbers and see whats wrong. Only problem i can see is, they might see plant as good enough and leave everyone else in gimpitude.

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Good point. No one really agrees what doms should be. There are lots of different playstyles -- the mostly solo scraptroller -- the team oriented toon that maxes out the primary -- the wanna-be damage dealer who slots holds for damage.

With a Brute, there is no question what the playstyle should be. Same with an MM or a Stalker. There is a little controversy with corrs, with some people thinking they should be support and others thinking they should be offense, but corrs are really able to do both pretty well.

There is none of this clarity as to the role of the dom. Perhaps it would be helpful if one of the devs would share with us what their thoughts were in designing the AT?

FivefifteenA

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excellent idea.

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Then how come we are not all pulling together?

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Because repeatedly waving a "doms suck" banner isn't the way to get people who actually *like* dominators and playing dominators to rally to your side.

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This is the OTHER reason he gets flamed, lol. A lot of us don't actually think Doms suck, we like doms but we all think we need a bit more power.

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And why do you think it is necessary to "flame" someone merely for expressing an opinion that may differ slightly from yours?

FivefifteenA

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The reason we are not pulling together is no one can aggree what is wrong with dom's why?

Ask a plant dom and you get nothing is wrong, unless they forgot to take seeds or something silly like that.

Ask someone with psi and you will probably hear low damage.

Ask someone without hasten and most likely you will get too slow to build domination.

Ask someone who sits on domination waiting for a crisis and you will get domination not up often enough, or we suck when domination isnt up.

Dominators need to be completly analyzed by the devs and they need to run the numbers and see whats wrong. Only problem i can see is, they might see plant as good enough and leave everyone else in gimpitude.

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I see very clearly now. That seems to be it. There are a lot of isolated problems with some of the sets, and few that are universal. Not everyone agrees on everything because a lot of us don't have the same problem. If we buff our melee/range damage modifiers, Psi will still be the weakest set. If we buff our control to Controller levels, a few sets will still have holes in their control. If we keep changing Domination, the people who sit on it until they need it will still complain that they're weak without it. The solution isn't as simple as we think. We need to find out what the isolated issues are and bring them to light, and I think Liliacae's Dominator Issues Lists are the perfect example of how we should go about it.

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Anything else you'd like to blame on blasters? Global warming, perhaps? High gas prices?


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Gas Prices need serious nerfs.

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Seriously.

Dropping a toggle is far away from defeating an opponent. An attack like Bone Smasher is (was) assured to drop one toggle, has something like a 50% chance to drop another, and a much lower chance to drop a third. Even if it drops three toggles, the blaster still has to lay out the damage to take down the melee. But the melee can run away until his toggles come back up. He can pop a green of two. He can hit the blaster with a stun attack of his own (which will stun the blaster and drop all of the blaster’s toggles). And melee players have learned to run lots of toggles in PvP zones as a defense against blasters and controllers. So I dropped three toggles? let’s see, I got sprint, combat jumping, and just one of several defensive toggles. Hmmmm… And what happened to me, the squishy blaster, who just closed to zero range against a scrapper or brute?


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I under stand this but toggle drops were to powerfull, being a tank in a pvp zone all you have is your taunt and toggles once my mez resist toggle is down Im a sitting duck, then your hold hits and thats the rest of my toggles and my ability to pop greens. With the 100% toggle drops you have a 1 in 5 chances to hit my mez protect then the less chance to knock out 2 more powers, so that and in my experince is most of the time 3 of 5 powers out, odds are you hit my mez and thats game over for me. and any other tank or scrapper that depends on toggles only for there defense, I have seen blasters kill me in 2 to 3 hits with aim/buildup bc i lost my toggles first.

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The problem with the Toggle Dropper change was people only saw Blasters when they saw Toggle Droppers - Domniators got theirs gutted so most of us can't even drop toggles before Warburg, and those of us that can have a slow-as-hell power that still has a low chance to detoggle. I say if we were going to get ours reduced we should still have a 64% chance with our FIRST toggle dropper, and a 90% chance with our second. A lot of us have unbearably slow toggle droppers now that could more than likely get us killed.

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just put him on ignore, problem solved

i agree with whoever posted a few posts up about changing our primaries to actually be better dominators

im fine with our medium dmg, but we need to actually be good at dominating stuff

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I say we should get a boost to our control durations so that it is equal to a Controller's, and then we need a reordering of the secondary powers so we don't get a level 10 power at level 38. Psi assault especially needs one - Subdue needs to be moved to 10, mental blast needs to be removed, and TK blast needs to be put in at 28 at the latest.

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Knock it off 515A.

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This is only going to make things worse. Let's start from the beginning: the infighting stops NOW. As in we talk about Dominator issues, not issues you have with other posters.

Agreed. The last thing we need is more infighting.

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Then how come we are not all pulling together?

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Because repeatedly waving a "doms suck" banner isn't the way to get people who actually *like* dominators and playing dominators to rally to your side.

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This is the OTHER reason he gets flamed, lol. A lot of us don't actually think Doms suck, we like doms but we all think we need a bit more power.

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And why do you think it is necessary to "flame" someone merely for expressing an opinion that may differ slightly from yours?

FivefifteenA

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We're a fiesty group when it comes to people talkin about us >.>

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If by "feisty" you mean "rude" and "abusive," then yes you are. If you want people (i.e. the devs and a broader cross-section of players) to take you seriously, and to actually begin to read the dom board, then that has to change.

FivefifteenA

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See, this is the kind of post that gets you flamed, lol.

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Then how come we are not all pulling together?

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Because repeatedly waving a "doms suck" banner isn't the way to get people who actually *like* dominators and playing dominators to rally to your side.

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This is the OTHER reason he gets flamed, lol. A lot of us don't actually think Doms suck, we like doms but we all think we need a bit more power.

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And why do you think it is necessary to "flame" someone merely for expressing an opinion that may differ slightly from yours?

FivefifteenA

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We're a fiesty group when it comes to people talkin about us >.>

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Then how come we are not all pulling together?

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Because repeatedly waving a "doms suck" banner isn't the way to get people who actually *like* dominators and playing dominators to rally to your side.

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This is the OTHER reason he gets flamed, lol. A lot of us don't actually think Doms suck, we like doms but we all think we need a bit more power.