Venture

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  1. Quote:
    To even begin to make the claim, you would have to demonstrate that at no time during the story line to date did anything surprise Wade, and at no time did he plan multiple contingencies that ended up being unnecessary. I would like to see such an attempt.
    Back when Babylon 5 was in its original run, its maker was on Usenet corresponding with the fans on a daily basis. Once, while discussing something that had gone wrong, he interrupted himself to say (paraphrasing from memory) "I'm telling you guys this stuff not to make excuses, just to educate you into how these shows are made. Something I learned back in my theater days is that the audience only sees the play that's in front of them. They don't know that you're hung over from the pre-opening night party, or that your costume is torn in back so you can't turn around, or that someone forgot to put out a prop so now your next line doesn't make any sense. They just see the play, and that's the way it should be."

    I don't have to deal with unpublished background material, or anything that ended up on the cutting room floor, or any of these absurd after-the-fact rationalizations or apologetics. I only have to address the story as it was given to us. What we've been given is a god-moding Villain Sue on the one hand and a bunch of people with a massive case of Plot Induced Stupidity on the other. If you have to write a second story to explain the problems with the first one, the first one failed. Likewise if the story was not sufficiently entertaining to keep the audience from noticing the sketchy bits.

    Oh, and just as an addendum, revealing that Wade had scores of contingency plans would only make it worse.
  2. Quote:
    Here's an interesting question - If CK is Penny's mysterious trainer then what does that say about him? Is he coming to terms with his own condition and cognizant of the true source of his "robotics" skills?
    In the accidental beta leak of what appeared to be a SSA 2 mission, there was a scene in which, if you allowed Penny and the King to talk without attacking, she manages to talk him into accepting her new role as a hero. Of course, that's just a small part of a (presumably) much larger picture.
  3. Quote:
    That is my hope. I have a feeling I am going to be beaten up for it.
    Not for that, but for your abysmal use of whitespace.
  4. Quote:
    I pointed out that this was certainly not the case, because he by now has twice failed to kill the PC, and one can assume that this is not according his plan.
    It's not even part of "his plan", it's not part of the storyline that everyone is complaining about and you know it, which is why this entire avenue of approach is disingenuous at best.
  5. Quote:
    Wade tried to kill the PC. He was unsuccessful.
    This statement is factually correct but contextually meaningless, making it nothing more than cut-rate sophistry.

    Edit: just to reiterate, the question isn't whether or not you can spin the details. You always can; go go gadget Quine-Duhem Thesis. The point is that you need to. On its face the story is abject garbage. Post hoc justifications are irrelevant.
  6. Quote:
    Hey, so why did he show his face to the Midnighter's in SSA2? Wouldn't it have been smarter not to do it?
    Evidently, because he knew they were a bunch of incompetent boobs who wouldn't just shoot him on sight.

    Quote:
    Really? So when he summoned the Aspect of Ruladak, it killed you and you went to the hospital and then quit the Task Force?
    Now you're just being silly.

    Quote:
    Yes, and I'm sure the SSAs would be terrible as an interpretive dance too. Stories have to be tailored to their medium.
    MMOs are not so far removed from tabletop RPGs as to invalidate comparisons between the two.
  7. Quote:
    So, by my reckoning, two partial wins, two clear wins, and two too close to call.
    Your "reckoning" is a transparent apologetic. Oz is correct: Wade has not made a single misstep the whole way. Absolutely everything has gone according to his plan, even things he had no control over whatsoever. I keep coming back to this, but then the essay in question is in my stack of The Seven Books That Contain Everything You Really Need to Know:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Raymond Chandler
    There is one of Dorothy SayersÂ’ in which a man is murdered alone at night in his house by a mechanically released weight which works because he always turns the radio on at just such a moment, always stands in just such a position in front of it, and always bends over just so far. A couple of inches either way and the customers would get a rain check. This is what is vulgarly known as having God sit in your lap; a murderer who needs that much help from Providence must be in the wrong business.
    That's how the whole SSA comes off.

    Quote:
    The second, though not related to MMO's (they don't play any, so I felt I had a slightly more objective point of view of things being related to me) was that if I'd done anything like that in our tabletop games, I would've been crucified. It's fine, they said, if you want an event to go a certain way, but in order to make it interactive and make you feel a part of them, you need to have a sense that you're shaping that experience, one way or the other.
    Had I tried something like this for any group I GMed for, including the 10-year-olds I was introducing to the hobby, they'd have eaten Wade for lunch unless I invoked a level of railroading roughly equivalent to building a mag-lev supersonic bullet train running through my living room.
  8. Quote:
    And now they're saying "no one knows who trained her"? Yeesh.
    I don't think Sister Psyche and Aurora were training Penny for combat or superhero work. Who trained her for that is pretty obvious: "Rusty".
  9. Quote:
    I'm still dissatisfied but I'll concede that the information was floating out there in some form even if it's not the form I would have preferred.
    I agree that they weren't clear about Penny's age, that the misconceptions were not cleared up properly, etc. But I call's 'em as I see's 'em, and this one isn't a canon error or a retcon. It's an obscurity fault.

    Now if you really want to get bent out of shape, try figuring out how old Vanessa DeVore must have been when Mr. Yin nailed her.
  10. Quote:
    You can call it "horse blinders" all you want. I call it faulty writing. You know what they did about it back then? Not a thing. They knew years ago about this age problem and they did nothing to correct anyone's assumptions back then.
    Untrue. The bit about Penny being college-age came out at or before the release of the RWZ. It was only discussed on the forums so I'm sure a lot of people missed it, but it was there.
  11. Quote:
    and here goes Wade doing the Xanatos Gambit trope, you complain because he does it better than Xanatos?
    There is a very fine line between a Xanatos Gambit and a Villain Sue, and Darren Wade has super-leaped across it.
  12. Quote:
    I challenged you earlier to apply for a position as one of their freelance writers.
    Not only is this objection completely unfair, but thanks to MA I can point to no small number of arcs I've reviewed that are far better than anything we've gotten lately. (Assuming they still work, that is.)
  13. Quote:
    Really? I was of the impression that the audience were already feeling cheated by SSAs 1-6 so far. Continuing that trend would simply be par for the course at this point ... wouldn't you say?
    I didn't say they couldn't or wouldn't do it. My opinion of this writing team is so low they would have to work very hard to disappoint me. I'm just pointing out that the theories about Psyche suddenly Getting Better are coming from the first stage of grief: denial. There's nothing in the material to justify it.
  14. I finally played the hero arc myself and can confirm it is well and truly Teh Suq.

    I also think Psyche's death is established well enough that any sudden reversal in the last act would constitute cheating the audience.
  15. Quote:
    Also, if you look at the cut scene, there's essentially no gap between Statesman finding him and Wade springing the trap.
    He sprung the trap when he killed Alexis.

    Quote:
    As someone said in another thread, Wade had a good day and States had a bad day and they happened to be the same day.
    The devs might get a bye with that, if the rest of the storyline didn't also have Wade outperforming David Xanatos on his best day.
  16. Quote:
    Same deal here. Statesman might have suspected that Wade had something up his sleeve, but he's survived an awful lot, and it's not a reasonable assumption that this non-entity would be able to lock him down and shut him off at will.
    We've been all over that in other threads. The only reason a "non-entity" like Wade would ostentatiously provoke a confrontation with one of the world's most powerful supers is because he at least thinks he has a sure-fire way of coming out on top. Given that, it's pretty stupid to treat said confrontation like a coffee and cake run -- or even to give him that confrontation in the first place. Wade would have been utterly screwed if Statesman had been smart enough to realize it was a setup and sent someone else -- like, say, the PC -- in his place.
  17. Quote:
    No, it only explains how it gets exploited. It doesn't explain where this weird little fragment of Aurora came from, nor how it came to develop an entire brain, mind, and personality of its own such that it required that said personality be locked in the equivalent of a psychic solitary confinement in a maximum security prison.
    This plot element comes from the Top Cow comics -- where it should have stayed.
  18. "Powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal man", which every PC in City has, even the supposedly "non-super" Natural ones.
  19. Quote:
    What? Yes she has. There's repeated instances of her being referred to as the strongest psychic in the world, both in game and out.
    I can't think of a single one in-game. Out of the game her bio says she's "the most gifted psychic in Paragon City, and possibly the entire planet" and "the tremendous scope of her mental powers is far beyond that of any hero, past or present" but that's directly contradicted by Agent G at the end of the Faultline arc. He names both the Clockwork King and Penny as being more powerful.

    Quote:
    Same with Wade. Its not just possible but likely that his plan involves dozens or hundreds of contingencies mapped out over years, and for every one we see there's dozens that are just sitting around unused because it didn't go that way.
    Yeah, not buying it.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Raymond Chandler
    The boys with their feet on the desks know that the easiest murder case in the world to break is the one somebody tried to get very cute with; the one that really bothers them is the murder somebody only thought of two minutes before he pulled it off.
  20. Quote:
    I'm not clear on what you think needs to be handwaved here. Wade wasn't being omniscient. He was simply taking a precaution so logical that its omission would have been questionable.
    In order for this to be the case, there needs to be one and only one possible move for the heroes to make at this juncture, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Quote:
    I'm guessing the Devs targeted Statesman and Psyche because they were the two "BEST IN ALL THE UNIVERSE" at being invulnerable and being telepathic. It just so happens that they are Emmert's creations, and it probably says something about Emmert that he made these two Mary Sues.
    I wouldn't call either character a Mary Sue, and for that matter Sister Psyche was never portrayed as being "best telepath EVAH". Hell, right from the git-go we were told Penny Yin was more powerful.
  21. Quote:
    the feeling i'm getting is that the devs are going for something sort of like a "one more day" style character reset for manticore
    bring me the bore worms!!!

  22. Quote:
    Specialist Greer is pretty explicit that this is what happened in the end of arc debriefing.
    It's not a question of whether or not you can handwave it. You always can. It's a question of whether or not you need to.
  23. Quote:
    I also refer you to another past thread about reviving Statesman. That would apply here, too.
    Another unressurectable death is definitely a problem, unless Psyche makes a miraculous recovery in the next arc. It's way too soon to go back to that Well.
  24. I'm just filled with enthusiasm to play this arc....</blatantlies>
  25. ...as if we didn't already suspect....



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