Ultimo_

It's not the actual power levels that matter, though. It's about presentation. My Super Strength Tanker doesn't feel particularly Super Strong, but it's not because he does comparatively lower damage. It's because he's not doing things that strong characters can do, like lifting a car full of thugs and smashing it on a rock, or holding up a falling building or train track. Again, this is just one example, but it's not about the numbers, it's about the presentation.

I realize I'm looking for the game to be something it isn't. It can't possibly meet all my desires, but there are places where it might be tweaked so it's closer to what I'd like. For my part, I think it would be good for the game in general to be more like a comic book. Not exactly like, just MORE like.

What I mean is that the game just falls short of replicating what we see in the comic books.

Consider Batman, one of the most significant, iconic characters in comic book history. He's been copied many times over the years, generating characters like Moon Knight, Nightwing and so on. City of Heroes simply can't emulate him or his adventures.

Everything is about beating up bad guys, and not the type we see in the comics. Batman adventures tend to include some intrigue and mystery. CoH doesn't bring in any of this.

Actually, here's another great example, one that's actually in the game.

A building is on fire. How CoH deals with this is very different from what we'd see in a comic book.

In the comics, the hero will rush into the burning buildng, dodging burning rafters, sudden sinkholes and walls of flame to rescue the child trapped within. Outside, his teammates are trying to combat the actual fire, rescuing people from the upper story windows.

In City of Heroes, we beat up an army of bad guys, then we beat up the fire. Then we beat up more bad guys.

In the comics, we see car chases, death traps, secret IDs, and all sorts of other stuff that CoH is just missing or falling short of.

In the comics, Spidermand spends most of his time fighting Electro, not an army of nameless, faceless goons, only to find Electro is 40 times as powerful as Spidey is.


As I say, though, the game doesn't fail, it's pretty good, for what it does do. I'd just like to see them fill in some of the gaps. If DC Online has the kinds of things that make it a Comic Book MMO instead of an MMO with comic book flavouring, then CoH may be in trouble.

I agree, up to a point. It does many things very well. If it didn't I wouldn't have been here as long as I have, and I wouldn't care to suggest what I see as improvements.

Actually, this touches on one of my biggest complaints about the game. There's just not enough "comic book" in this comic book game. At this point I don't see how it can change in any significant way without a radical overhaul, so I wouldn't hold my breath for that. However, if I see a way the game might be tweaked to improve the comic book experience, I'll usually mention it. You never know what's possible until you try.

I was, and do. My comments are always general in nature. I only present numbers when certain people demand them because I know that specific example will become the fixation and the general principle will be lost.

Only on teams. Solo, they're the weakest (in general).

OF course, this is why they made a change to the class, because it wasn't underperforming? Really now.

What? Givig them a boost to damage wan't mentioned? Hmmmm, I seem to ecall suggesting that exact thing myself. Of course, I didn't specify how, I was pointing aout a general principle again.

Not really. People react to me the way I do because I refuse to capitulate at the first sign of resistance. They tell me the things I saw happening with my own eyes didn't happen, and are then offended when I refuse to accept that assertion.

As I said above, I generally don't post numbers because my comments are usually very general in nature, and because I don't pretend to have the expertise in the mechanics of the game I would need. I only present numbers when they are demanded of me. The usual result is that the example becomes the fixation of the thread and the general point I was making is lost. I suspect sometimes that is the reason people demand the numbers.

I won't presume to speak for JB, but I wouldn't think of suggesting my threads were the motivating factor behind the changes made.

My threads on Defenders were designed to identify what I saw as a failing in the class, that they had weak offense and weak defense, and needed a boost in one area or the other. I was informed I was wrong, and didn't know what I was talking about, and not politely. Seems I did know what I was talking about, since the Devs decided to give the class more offense.

I'd never suggest MY comments motivated the change. I'm just saying that if I was as off-base as some are making out, the changes they DID make wouldn't have happened.

He daren't say, considering how suggestions and observations are received around here.

I'm also looking forward to GR, though I'm not sure what it will fix, even if it added ALL of those things. As I said at the beginning, endurance issues make the game a tedious grind of waiting for the endurnce to come back enough to fight, but it's far from the only issue.

We'll see what GR brings to the table.

You're correct, You've been respectful in the past and none of my defensive comments are meant for you or other respectful posters. I'm sorry you got caught in the crossfire. I have absolutely no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, I just ask that they do so without being disagreeable.

Again, I apologize if you feel you've been slighted in any way.


I spend most of my time in Lord of the Rings Online, Star Trek Online and DDO, though I've played other games (not WoW or Everquest, though). I've found that I don't have nearly the same issues in those games. Galaxies is another that suffers somewhat from this, but in that game I was playing a Crafter and didn't do much combat.

The lesson I take from all this is that if anyone other than that particular little clique has the audacity to post anything like a suggestion, that they will circle the wagons and make (often very) personal attacks until the thread's purpose is lost under a pile of ****.

Except that's not what he said. If you have to put words in his mouth so blatantly, then your position must be REALLY tenuous.

It's interesting. I could swear I was playing one of my Tankers, but if you say it was a Defender, I guess I had better capitulate to your better knowledge of what I'm doing.

By all means, read the whole thread. You'll find I wasn't the one that started slinging insults. Just don't post about it here, it's off topic and an obvious attempt to find something that can be used to insult me further, since this thread isn't providing enough fodder.

The post you linked to is off topic, but I'll say this:
In essence, it was trying to tell me that what I actually saw happening with my own eyes didn't happen. That will always be an extraordiarily hard sell, no matter how much you all pat yourselves on the back for saying it.
It tried to tell me there had been no compaints that Defenders were weak solo (something which has been asserted in this thread by the same people that were telling me it isn't so).
It's actually an excellent example of why I don't post builds. It takes an example and focuses the attention of the thread entirely on that one example, thus diverting attention and discussion from the orignal point. Of course, the link doesn't show the whole thread, just one post taken out of context.
In any case, I'm not going to argue a nearly YEAR-old thread again.

You still missed 5a, in which the problem isn't solved and the "helpful" forumites refuse to accept that there may be a problem that their suggestions don't help.

Put another way, if it was just one or two builds, I could post them and it might be that the issue has to do with them. However, I'm not going to post hundreds of characters that are all having the same basic problem (though to differing extents), and I'm not going to go looking for builds from the many other people who have posted over the years complaining that endurance costs are excessive.

Again, the problem isn't with just a couple of builds or ATs, it's a general issue and I'm not the only nor the first person to comment on it.

I've posted builds in the past when it's been requested, and the threads usually degenerate even further than this one did. They become little more than source material for the trolls to tell me how much I suck, and they're really beside the point since endurance issues have been reported and discussed by MANY other people. It's not about ME, no matter how much some people would like it to be.

Thus, I've declined to post the builds. That, and I don't favour the idea of posting 200 characters...

I'm not suggesting revamping the whole game. I'm just suggesting that endurance costs could use a bit of evening out across the board. I mean, it does depend on the specific power sets, but some ATs generally use more endurance to achieve the same ends as others do. Tankers and Defenders are examples, but it's more complicated than simply boosting endurance for everyone. Certainly, that would help everyone, but it wouldn't level the playing field at all.

If you're asking how I would redesign the game from the ground up, I'll gladly describe that, but it would be long, largely off topic and unlikely to happen in any case.

Welcome to my world. This happens in every thread I make, no matter what I'm posting about.

I said there was a problem because defenders have less damage per endurance when that topic was brought up in discussion. I didn't bring it up.

Seriously, if I don't respond to every utterance by every person in the thread, I'm accused of ignoring people, and if I do respond to everyone, I'm accused of saying things THEY brought up.