Tyger42

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I'm just curious if a SG/VG prestige rank matters to the playerbase anymore.

I know when bases first came out there were prestige wars and if you were #1 in rank for prestige it was a matter of pride.

But that was then. Does anyone still feel the same way?

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Oh, prestige -rank-? I didn't give a flying rat's bum from day 1. Prestige itself, yeah, I care because it is needed to pay the base rent and trick the base out.

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Basically the unspoken conclusion is that Microsoft forces you to have to buy a new machine if you want to have a good experience. Sure that's kind of underhanded, but we are talking about Microsoft here.


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I don't disagree that updated hardware is clearly the better way to go, but it almost sounds as if you're saying Microsoft is somehow also selling you the hardware... I'm not sure where the underhandedness comes in.

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I wouldn't put it that way. However, what it comes down to is that previous versions of Windows allowed certain shortcuts that hardware manufacturers commonly used. These shortcuts weren't exactly the best things for the system ( Or the parts using them ). Vista closed those shortcuts, and, as a result, a lot of cheaper ( and some higher end ) hardware suddenly started running into conflicts because of this.

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Vista works fine for me, then again, I am now running Windows 7.

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Ah, Windows 7. "We've fixed a bunch of problems with Vista and added a few new features, but you're going to have to pay the full upgrade price to get those fixes!"

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I've found Vista works best if you don't install it.

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And I've found that, since the service packs, it works better than XP.

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Claiming something that I happen to know is patently false is BS.

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Simply because you haven't encountered it doesn't make it false.

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You may know some truckers that get paid to wait on loads, but I assure you that it is far from the norm in the industry.\

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Which is the same as saying that you haven't encountered it.

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You claimed that it was the norm ( Not in those exact words, but the claim was still there ). I'm not saying it isn't true just because I haven't encountered it. I'm saying it is a very rare exception to the norm.

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They get billed for services rendered during the time, not the time itself.

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Thumb Twiddle 1: $0.01
Thumb Twiddle 2: $0.01
Thumb Twiddle 3: $0.01

Sorry. You're incorrect.

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Your presence and availability are the service. Certainly there are things you'd rather be doing during that time... You're not there for the purpose of twiddling your thumbs. ( But, if you were, that would be the service )

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Good god, man. TIME IS NOT AN OBJECT THAT CAN BE SOLD!

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You're half-right. Time is not an object.

It's a commodity.

As such, it can be quantified and billed for. Again, your work experience is very nice and product-oriented. But it's led you to erroneous conclusions for professions outside of your experience.

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If you were selling your time, you wouldn't be bound to be available, perform a service, or whatever during that time. Time is the measurement being used to quantify the service you've been contracted for, even if that service is simply being present and available to work whether you actually end up working or not.

Hey, Hyper's the one that started basically insulting my intelligence over the matter. No, he wasn't the first to openly use insult words, but that doesn't make his "tone" any less insulting.

And, no, you can't buy time or sell it.

The point remains that it does work fine on Vista.

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No. It is NOT. You're NOT getting paid to sit there and twiddle your thumbs. You're being paid for the time that's being wasted by others.

If you were being paid for what you were doing, or being paid for what you WERE going to do, you'd be paid a FLAT FEE.

But for waiting (not shutting down), you're paid on an hourly scale.

You're wrong. Please just man up and admit it.

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This is how I would interpret it also.

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Then you'd interpret it wrong. Time is used to measure the service he's providing on his job, just as miles are used to measure the service I provide on mine.

Eh, sorry if I seem overly aggressive, but it does grate on the nerves when someone is so smug when they're so grossly wrong...

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I understand his point of view. It's very nice and very blue-collar.

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"Blue-collar"? Is that what they call understanding the meanings of words these days? Strange...

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In short. You're wrong. PERIOD.

Now go be insulting to someone who gives a damn about your opinion.

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FYI, you're not the only one who thinks he's 1) splitting semantic hairs, and 2) wrong.

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Well, I guess there are more idiots than him out there that don't understand the simple concept of what "time" is. Seriously, go run down to the store and buy me a minute. Buy me a mile and a pound while you're at it.

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Time isn't a unit of measurement. It's an abstract noun. Minutes, hours, days months and years are units of measurement that measure time. Just like acres and hectares measure land. Time is very sellable. TV and Radio stations sell time on their station to advertise whatever the buyer wants.

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No, they're not selling time. They're selling the service of broadcasting those ads. And time is measurement, minutes, etc are just sub-categories. Time is to minutes as distance is to miles.

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They're selling the service of broadcasting the ads. The fee they charge is based on the DURATION of the ads; i.e. how much TIME it takes to broadcast them. Price are often stated in terms such as "30 seconds during half-time".

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Exactly. That's not the time being sold, though. The time is just measuring the service. Just like a pound is measuring the hamburger I buy at the store or a mile is measuring my driving for work.

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So sorry I actually know what I'm talking about and can call you on your BS.

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It's not BS. If you want to be insulting, please take it elsewhere.

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Claiming something that I happen to know is patently false is BS. You may know some truckers that get paid to wait on loads, but I assure you that it is far from the norm in the industry.\

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They get billed for TIME SPENT.

In short. You're wrong. PERIOD.

Now go be insulting to someone who gives a damn about your opinion.

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They get billed for services rendered during the time, not the time itself. Good god, man. TIME IS NOT AN OBJECT THAT CAN BE SOLD! The time is not what is being sold, it is measuring the service.

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No it does not.

listen to this:


PC System Requirements
Minimum PC Requirements

-----Windows® 2000/XP-------

- Never said vista on there.

Intel® Pentium® III 800 MHz or AMD Athlon 800 MHz
256 MB RAM
CD-ROM Drive (DVD-ROM Drive if Collector's DVD Edition)
4 GB available hard disk space
NVIDIA® GeForce™ 2 Series, ATI® Radeon® 8500 Series or Intel i865G and above Video Card
Directx 9.0c
16-bit sound card
56k Internet connection
Keyboard and mouse

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It doesn't say that it doesn't work on Vista. Sounds like you're looking at a box from before Vista was released, of COURSE Vista isn't listed on it. But plenty of people are playing just fine on Vista, myself included.

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It's not the time, it's what you're doing.

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No. It is NOT. You're NOT getting paid to sit there and twiddle your thumbs. You're being paid for the time that's being wasted by others.

If you were being paid for what you were doing, or being paid for what you WERE going to do, you'd be paid a FLAT FEE.

But for waiting (not shutting down), you're paid on an hourly scale.

You're wrong. Please just man up and admit it.

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You're getting paid to BE THERE. To BE AVAILABLE for x amount of time. That's a service. That service is what you're being paid for. Not the time itself. Time cannot be sold. Period. Because it is a measurement, not a commodity.

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If I'm sitting waiting on the load, I'm not getting paid.

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Then you're either not working for the right company or not taking the kinds of loads I'm familiar with.

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It's the industry norm. So sorry I actually know what I'm talking about and can call you on your BS. But I would think you would have known that when I said I worked in the industry. Obviously I overestimated your intelligence.

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It's not the time, it's what you're doing. Why is that so hard to grasp? You cannot sell a unit of measurement.

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Time isn't a unit of measurement. It's an abstract noun. Minutes, hours, days months and years are units of measurement that measure time. Just like acres and hectares measure land. Time is very sellable. TV and Radio stations sell time on their station to advertise whatever the buyer wants.

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No, they're not selling time. They're selling the service of broadcasting those ads. And time is measurement, minutes, etc are just sub-categories. Time is to minutes as distance is to miles.

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If you're a trucker, and are not getting paid hourly, but by mileage, you'd understand all about getting paid for your time. Like heading out to pick up a load, it's not ready yet, and you're getting paid to sit (not shut down) in the truck.

The law still states you have to shut down after X hours (IIRC it's 14), regardless.

[/ QUOTE ]...I don't get paid to sit waiting on the load. I get paid to drive. If I'm sitting waiting on the load, I'm not getting paid. Which is why drivers -HATE IT- when the shipper drags their butts on getting the loads ready.

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Yeah, truckers defiantly get paid for driving. That is not a "time" job. Time is very important, but it's not what you are paid for.

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It's what I've been saying. I've used driving as a comparison because I'm paid for driving, not miles. The miles just measure the driving.

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Tell me that when I get contracted out to some of our customers to essentially get paid to sit in a meeting while they come up with everything themselves.

Yet, the entire time I've been paid.

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It's not the time, it's what you're doing. Why is that so hard to grasp? You cannot sell a unit of measurement. Even if you're just sitting there, that's what they're paying you to do. You can't go off and grab a sandwich while they want you there. They want you -available- to do/say something if needed. That's a service. That's not your time.


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If you're a trucker, and are not getting paid hourly, but by mileage, you'd understand all about getting paid for your time. Like heading out to pick up a load, it's not ready yet, and you're getting paid to sit (not shut down) in the truck.

The law still states you have to shut down after X hours (IIRC it's 14), regardless.

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...I don't get paid to sit waiting on the load. I get paid to drive. If I'm sitting waiting on the load, I'm not getting paid. Which is why drivers -HATE IT- when the shipper drags their butts on getting the loads ready.

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These kinds of passive aggressive slight of hand "attack PL" threads are getting old.

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There, fixed!

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You might mean PL'ers I meant what I said.

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Not to agree or disagree with either of you on what was said there, but, yeah... Sorry, Suz, the "fixed" crap is pretty lame. I've always felt that way. I come from the school of thought that says putting words into other people's mouths is a BAD thing to do...

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Okay. My job as a network architect and chief network admin is to sit around and manage my network.

I spend a few minutes a day delegating.
I spend maybe an hour answering questions.
I spend a little time in meetings and double-checking logs, function, etc.

The rest of the time I sit back and twiddle my thumbs and just exude the fact that I'm available should someone need me.

Am I being paid to twiddle my thumbs?

No. I'm being paid for my time.

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No, you're being paid for the work that you do while you're there and for being available. If you didn't do your work when it was required, would you still be getting paid? Doubt it.

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if you read what I said, you would see that I am not accusing them of being in cahoots (although it would not surprise me one bit) however, they do profit (with extended subscriptions)


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You have absolutely zero evidence that RMT causes people to stay subscribed longer... I find it far more likely that immediate gratification makes for LESS longevity on accounts more often.

You already have that option: Never click "email". Bam! No more RMT emails. If you're not going to use it anyway, you never have any reason to open the window.

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If the NCStore sold in-game inf/inf for bottomed out prices it would drive the RMT'rs away in a week. There is no way they would be able to compete with the prices from a game's own online store which requires zero overhead or time to produce.

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Hasn't worked for EQ2 on the Exchange servers, what makes you think it would work here?

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Guy and Gals,

I think the issue here is that (and before I go on, I talk to Boxxy (the OP, Moldylunchbox) on Pinnbadges all the time, I don't think he asked cause he was thinking of using a RMT) RMT's exist (and PL'ers) cause there is no real will to deal with them, and the reason why is simple, they offer a service that in the end makes money for the game provider.

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*CoughcoughBULLS***cough!*

Ah, yes. The old "The devs are really in cahoots with them" tinfoil hat tripe.

Not entirely sure, but I believe there were several laws bent, stretched, and flat-out broken to prosecute him...