Tyger42

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its this double standard that bugs me. if players in supergroups can do it easily, then solo players should have an easy method also.

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It's not a double standard at all. The practice is 'frowned upon' by the devs so there are no systems to facilitate it. Solo players can't start task forces, either. This is not a first person shooter. This game is built around cooperation and teaming. Most of it CAN be soloed, but it's not designed as a solo game so the soloist has some extra hoops to jump through and some things are difficult or even impossible.

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it is a double standard. if the devs "frown" upon it and dont want us to transfer inf between characters, then no one should be able to do it.

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Wrong. The devs "frown upon it", but that doesn't mean they're outright against it. It just means they're not going to actively support it, but if someone finds a way as a side-effect of another feature ( which is the case here ), they're not going to go out of their way to stop it.

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Agreed. But as an aside, i don't think I've ever taken an hour to gather a tf at 50. Ever.

And there are some minor ways of knowing if the person is an AE baby.

For instance if I put out a call for an ITF, and someone asks "what's an ITF?" or what's "the Midnighter's Club" in VU2009 for instance, I sure as HELL am NOT going to invite someone like that on my ITF.

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That doesn't automatically mean it's an AE baby. A player who has been away from the game a long time wouldn't know these things right away, either.

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Erm, even I know what an ITF is. Find a old newbie older/recently returned than me, myself, or I. Found it rather fast, exploring the "new" regions. Bemoaning that I only have five costume slots, and thinking about which one I want to let lose, once I get on an ITF and get the extra costume options.

(then again, I've been 'back' right at two months. Next up on the list to explore: Stringa, Croatia.)

Us "new" old guys/gals, crusty as we may be, I'll bet did the same thing when we logged into FF: "just WHAT are those buildings over there? hrm..... explore time."

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YOU found it quick. That doesn't mean that every returning player would do the same. Or even most.

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its this double standard that bugs me. if players in supergroups can do it easily, then solo players should have an easy method also.

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It's not the intended use of the bins, but rather a loophole people figured out. One that can't be plugged without destroying the intended functionality of the bins ( Sharing inspirations/enhancements/salvage between SG members ). As it's a practice that is only "frowned upon", the devs aren't too worried about it.

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What I will continue to fight is restricting ANYTHING including the moving of the AE buildings.

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Question for you: why?

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Mainly, the 'slippery slope'.

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Which is a flawed argument if that's your primary objection.

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Also, depending upon where you put it, even in King's, that would also have the chance to prevent a brand new player from getting there. That, to me, is a restriction.

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Not at all. They can either learn to be careful navigating higher level zones or spend an hour leveling up before going there. A restriction would be something making it -impossible- to access it before the requirements are met.

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I wouldn't recommend sending a lvl 1 noob (especially from what I've been hearing about these new players we are getting) to a lvl 5 zone. For some this game is their first mmo. I can see the frustration from that scenario already.

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That's actually kind of the point. Sending a new player on their first character straight into the AE building is what we've been advocating changes for. Once they get sent to Kings Row (I like Steel and Skyway for this better, but *shrug*)
they will find the AE building and see that you can use it at level 1.

End result: They have at least played 5 levels of the normal content and have (hopefully) learned something about the basics of the game, like how to use the trains.

If they want to create a new character and go straight to the zones AE is in, there is nothing preventing them from doing so, but at least this way they know that AE is optional content, not the only content.

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Again, a lvl 1 should not be sent to a higher level zone in which there is a chance to frustration of dieng repeatedly.

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But they're not "being sent there". They're being given the option of going there or doing level appropriate content to get high enough to easily get around in that zone first. It's not forcing them to do the content, but it is strongly encouraging it.

No more of a problem than sending them to a level 10 zone to change their costume...

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Agreed. But as an aside, i don't think I've ever taken an hour to gather a tf at 50. Ever.

And there are some minor ways of knowing if the person is an AE baby.

For instance if I put out a call for an ITF, and someone asks "what's an ITF?" or what's "the Midnighter's Club" in VU2009 for instance, I sure as HELL am NOT going to invite someone like that on my ITF.

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That doesn't automatically mean it's an AE baby. A player who has been away from the game a long time wouldn't know these things right away, either.

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This is the same business that wouldn't allow our dev team to put a patch (publishing freeze) to get rid of obvious exploits which they forced them to release issue 14 with live btw, because of some arbitrary anniversary.

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I know this may start an argument I regret, but what the frack are you talking about here?

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disregard. Not necessary for this thread and shouldn't have posted.

My overall point HOWEVER, still stands. Which was that the devs WON'T be allowed to put in restrictions on something that they've been touting could be used from level 1.

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But they haven't been "touting" that. They haven't stated that there were restrictions, but that's not the same as touting that it was usable from level 1. Also, removing the AE buildings from the starting zones wouldn't be putting restrictions on it.

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Restrictions on it were not put on the retail box that is currently selling in stores.

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Nor was a statement that there would be no restrictions. However, there -is- a disclaimer that content changes.

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If the goal is to get folks to experience other parts of the game then incentives to do that should be implemented. In addition AE missions should be allowed to spawn in level appropriate zones.

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But there are incentives to do that. Not the least of which being the amount of content outside of AE that exists. They're not going to hand out free levels for doing non-AE content, but that's pretty much what it would take to get some of the new players that went straight to AE to go try out the rest of the content. At least moving the AE buildings would make them move out of the starting zone and at least learn that a) there are more zones out there and b) How to travel between zones.

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*Claps* Way to misconstrue what's being said, trollboy. The problem isn't so much people who do nothing but AE. The problem is people who use AE to PL to 50, then try to join teams outside of AE and are completely clueless about how the game works.

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Like understanding that no one forces you to play with someone you don't want to play with? Don't like the players abilities? The quit button is right there.

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Yeah, because all the people who've leveled exclusively through AE and have never experienced anything from the rest of the game have big, flashing signs next to their name saying "AE BABY!!!". How silly of us all to have missed that... ( Nabbing and paraphrasing what someone said earlier )

When I take an hour to gather a TF at level 50 and find halfway into the first mission that half the players don't know jack s*** about the game outside of AE, that is indicative of a real problem.

What people are saying is that new players should be exposed to the rest of the game. Once that happens, they can choose how they want to play. But, yes, they should be forced to learn the basics of the damn game.

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This is the same business that wouldn't allow our dev team to put a patch (publishing freeze) to get rid of obvious exploits which they forced them to release issue 14 with live btw, because of some arbitrary anniversary.

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I know this may start an argument I regret, but what the frack are you talking about here?

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So the elitists run rampant again.

Far be it for others to play your precious little game in a manner different than what you perceive to be the right way.

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*Claps* Way to misconstrue what's being said, trollboy. The problem isn't so much people who do nothing but AE. The problem is people who use AE to PL to 50, then try to join teams outside of AE and are completely clueless about how the game works.

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Well, that's why you find it hilarious... You're misreading what people are saying. Yes, they're frustrated at the "AE babies", but few to none are saying that AE is "killing the game".

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Well I'm saying it, as have a number of others. But enjoy that "see/hear/speak no evil" approach to life. It seems to be serving you well so far.

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*Shrug* And you enjoy the "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!" approach.

Seriously, mountain. Molehill.

Anyway, nice backpedal. You were trying to say that "so many" others in this thread were saying it, not just you. Now it's "Well, I'm saying it..." which means you're back where you started.

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Of Course you could double account. If your system can handle running two CoX at the same time. And if you cant spare $15 for one month you could do a free 14 day trail. Only then you have to transfer 50k at a time max. I'm assuming though that you do trust yourself, and aren't roleplaying a thief with your new toon.

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*Growls* Seriously hate people who try to use "But I'm RPing a thief!" to justify ripping off other players...

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I think it's hysterical that the majority of people on these boards are now condemning MA/AE when some of us saw this writing on the wall in beta and the day it was released. My gawd, I was practically crucified on these fora for daring to suggest AE was killing the game, killing teaming in zones other than AP, and creating a bunch of players who know nothing about the game or playing their toons!

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Well, that's why you find it hilarious... You're misreading what people are saying. Yes, they're frustrated at the "AE babies", but few to none are saying that AE is "killing the game".

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Wow, don't fall from the high horse or you might fall in your own hypocrisy or [censored].

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Wow, don't sprain anything stretching to take a potshot at me or anything.

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(have you never been flagged for cussing out someone? Duh.)

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Nope. But that's because I actually honor the agreements I make. Honesty, what a concept, huh?

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Why in the world is this the only game I've played so far where it's impossible to transfer influence/infamy between YOUR OWN CHARACTERS without needed a stranger to help you out? And even then, let's say you do find someone and that person happens to keep the money or log off, do the GMs even help you out with anything in reimbursements??

How the hell am I supposed to give money to my lowbie toons??

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Officially, the devs don't like twinking. Thus, they're not going to do anything that actively aids it. 'course, you don't really even need to anymore if you even half know the market...

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But isn't that power-leveling? I thought was an exploit of the system.

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No, PLing would be when they just doorsit or whatever and don't do anything.

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My personal idea, is to cap the amount of xp earned in ANY one mission (AE, TF, radio, whatever) to one level's worth. You still get inf, prestige and what not once you hit the xp cap. That way you have to play at least 50 missions in order to ding 50. This cuts into PL'ing across the board but doesn't stop it.

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This would be an example of cutting off one's nose to spite their face. I'd rather see solutions that don't f*** over everyone else too.

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I admit to being ignorant on this, but are there any ways to get more than one level in a single mission without exploiting the system in one way or another?

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Big team, long missions, early levels, patrol xp/double xp bonus, etc. In short, yes. Several.

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My personal idea, is to cap the amount of xp earned in ANY one mission (AE, TF, radio, whatever) to one level's worth. You still get inf, prestige and what not once you hit the xp cap. That way you have to play at least 50 missions in order to ding 50. This cuts into PL'ing across the board but doesn't stop it.

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This would be an example of cutting off one's nose to spite their face. I'd rather see solutions that don't f*** over everyone else too.

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Well, you know, there's a monorail right there in Atlas Park, and there are very obvious gates to other Zones, and the AE describes itself in the tutorial as a "virtual reality". So I'm guessing that anyone who just levels using nothing but the AE knows what they are doing. I can't see anyone saying "This is all the game is" unless they just don't bother to pay attention to their surroundings at all.

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With how many people can't be bothered to read any of the text that pops up on their screen, you really think that's a small number of people?

My "dream that would never happen" customization option would be to have bots that look similar to this

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People would have just PLed the old fashioned way to their first 50. I don't think it would have changed many of the problems people are having other than the people would know how to get to PI/Grandville.

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Yeah, the problem existed before, but it grew immensely with AE.

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I'll give you just a slice of the broadcast chat last night while I was in Cap on Freedom. I was doing some house keeping in my base of buying/selling recipes and whatnot and for [censored] and giggles had Broadcast up (which I normally don't). All the people that were talking were between the levels of 40-50.

Villain #1: I want to start the Croatoa SF where do I go for that?

Villain #2: I can't figure out why I can't control my Gang War with my pet binds.

Villain #3: Someone told me if I want to unlock a new Katana that looks like a lightsaber I should go to the RWZ. What's that and how do I get there?

Villain #4: How come Domination drops like every minute or so? I mean it's my inherent so shouldn't be on always?

Villain #5: I did a SF last night that dropped a purple recipe as the reward for completing it but can't remember the name. Does anyone know what SF I'm looking for?

Trust me there were also other posts far far FAR more stupid and idiotic but that gives you just a small idea of the caliber of players flooding into the game. God help us

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3 and 5 I can understand completely. RWZ is kinda out of the way and the nature of recipe drops isn't exactly well explained in-game.

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Wait. What? We want to make the game easier because we expect a level 30+ character to know how to get around or find a mission? You know, like the basic stuff you learn in the tutorial?

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There you go...AE is not the problem.

They should make it so that every person that buys the game has to do the tutorial once.

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No, AE is the problem. This is stuff people wouldn't be able to help but learn if they play the game normally.

Hami...farm....? Haven't run across those, but, then, I don't team that often. So, lemme get this straight: There are mobs that can be put into AE missions that don't fight back but give xp? And the devs haven't squashed that yet?