Torrynt

I hope that no one is unreasonable. I just would like a portion of the game to strenuously encourage teaming. While I'm sure someone has soloed a bubbler, I know that I wouldn't want to. Most my Kin's faceplant when not on a team (I've tried a few Kin defenders/corrupters).

I do think the slider killed a lot of teaming. Bad teaming, but it did have that effect. If something is to change, I'd hate to see the same thing happen to the best place to find a good team experience.

Ah yes, you are correct. You would have to team up to what 6 times in your career at the moment. Or use the run around 6 times.

At times they do. At others they recognize an important aspect of their game. Which they see this as will remain known as long as the barrier exists.

Please, I don't IO all my toons, but I can get through most content at 0/4 at a minimum on just SOs. The initial proposal was lowering AVs to EBs as well. I suppose without it keeps them mostly team friendly, but I'll still contend most the people forming them now are the same people who could solo them if given an easy opportunity. As it stands people like me can ride on their coat tails and help along the way.

I disagree with this. High level teams, AE or otherwise died when the slider appeared. It's just easier to do your little farming at anywhere from -1/4 to +4/8 on your own. There are a fraction of the teams doing that. Which as you say, is not a huge loss since they were lousy teams. It still does not change the fact that it did decrease those teams. It would take a lot to convince me otherwise.

No it wouldn't disappear. I still can find high level random teams in PI. It's just much harder to do so. Which is the issue here.

Quote:

Was wrong about the slider existing, was wrong about the markets being merged, was wrong about allowing to go back and play old arcs we missed, was wrong about side switching being allowed.

People predicting doom on the slider were correct. A large subset of teams vanished when that happened. However, most of the teams that vanished were bad teams. Task Forces are good teaming content. No one wants a door sitter there.

Well if it comes to pass I would hope you are right and I am wrong.

Glad to see that you are actually doing it for the content. Sadly, I don't think most do.

Right now, they don't mind teaming because that's the fastest and easiest way to merits. While they are not opposed to teaming per say, they are interested in their best reward/hour of game time. Take away the barriers and that paradigm changes. The best reward/hour of game time becomes solo if you can do it. Which many can and would.

Wyld, if you want to solo a TF, you can now. You are just doing it for the challenge, so it's not like this is an inconvenience that you face every day. It's an irritation that you might experience a few times in the years that you play.

That is not too much to ask to keep what I think is a good aspect of the game in place.

Several.

No my point is that you are arguing to be able to see the content solo. That's fine, you can. The ability is there already. It's a hassle, but you can certainly do it.

If you are running it once, then the hassle is just a few moments of your life. As long as this is not content that is so compelling that you feel the need to do it multiple times, keeping the barrier in place to placate the team oriented folks is not a bad idea.

I agree that tips are more lucrative. However, you are capped on that. The people grinding TFs do their 5 tips and then jump right in to get their 50-100 merits a day. They are not running the TFs because the content is better or really all that much different than radios, they are doing it because that's the next best game in town for rewards.

Since you didn't know why I brought that up, I'll take your snark for what it's worth and not be offended.

Secondly, I would imagine that most people who are capable of taking on a +4/x8 could absolutely rip through a TF at -1/1 to -1/8 or -1/6. It would open merit and drop farming to a new degree. At that point, it would be far faster to dump the team and maximize my drop rate and speed through the missions. No "afk for a moment" or even waiting to form.

Sure some do. However, it's far easier to just jump on one of the many channels and say, ITF starting. I'm sure there are people who do it to say they did it. However, as long as the barrier for entry is there, it's easier for everyone to just form a team.

If you need to prove yourself, or are so antisocial that the thought of a team is anathema, then there is a method for you to solo to your hearts content.

When the slider was introduced, the high level teams in PI dried up almost overnight. Why? Many of those people were farmers who wanted drops. They needed people to team. It was an artificial barrier to entry. No one complains because those were lousy teams. Doorsitting stinks. Sure TFs have an artificial barrier to entry too. However, I've never been asked to doorsit. Those are good teams and if history is to be believed, you will see an across the board reduction on the number of teams running TFs.

How much is debatable, but every time a solo friendly aspect is added, the number of teams is reduced in that aspect.

I like that CoX is so solo friendly. I have times where I solo a lot. However, I also like teams and it's nice to get a team where I know I can play for 1-2 hours on a consistent basis.

For the antisocial, you can still do it. Or you can ignore them all together.

Well I think I have covered my fears about 20 times so far. However, for the sake of completeness, here we go again.

To me, teaming is a very important part of a MMO. While I have been pleased with how CoX has made soloing viable and competitive, there are times when I want to sit down with a team and play.

The only content that I can guarantee to get a team that will do content and stick together for more than 10-15 minutes is on a TF. This is a TF that is not required for advancement, but does accelerate it, so doesn't unfairly impact the solo player.

If the TFs go solo capable (beyond the cludge that you have now) I feel that those teams will mostly disappear much like that last time that solo players got a boon in an area where teaming was required; that was high level PI teams. Diversity is different ways of playing the game. Teaming and soloing are diverse methods of play. While there is no solo required content that I can think of, it is what many players do for significant portions of their time.

So by expanding TFs to easily solo, I feel that you will remove much of the teaming content that is the only thing guaranteed to generate a team that stays together for more than a mission or so.

I understand your desire to see everything. However, since it doesn't impede your character advancement, is not that much of a barrier (1-2 hour sessions), and can be ignored if desired, then it's not unreasonable to leave it as is. You can see it all, for you and your 10-15 minute scheduled sessions it might take planning further ahead. In the mean time you can continue to advance in whatever methods your schedule permits.

Heh, meant to say stop doing them. Yes, what I actually wrote was pretty stupid.

Still it's a fear that is based on what happened after the introduction of the difficulty sliders. High level teams dried up since those people didn't need their mostly useless team mates. That already happened. It's not speculation.

Is this guaranteed to happen to TFs? I think so, but I can only look back to what happened when you gave farmers the ability to solo before. It might be different since TFs grant an accolade so there might be people still teaming it. However, I would be willing to lay money there would be much less of them.

I understand what you want, and why you want it. However, I would hope that you could also see the historical precedent that happened and realize that some of us like teams and that is the one place where it's guaranteed to get one.

You have the ability to solo it, even with the very cumbersome methods of doing it. So it's not like that ability doesn't exist. However, it is a method which insures that it's just easier to get a team together and do the content.

Sure it is. I can pretty much assure that if I am going to do a TF I am teaming. That is encouraging teaming in it's most draconian methods. If you want to take that tact, then the ability to solo a mission is arbitrary as well.

If they did this without considering the consequences, then I would agree with you. However, they likely have a reason, and my guess is that they want teaming for some aspect of their game enforced. That is not arbitrary, it's just a decision they made based on what they think will make their game succeed.

If you want the strictest definition of arbitrary than any decision they make is arbitrary since there is little reasoning for anything in their game other than they say so.

So you can only play for more than 10-15 minutes at a time while on vacation? Seriously?

No, I'm simply pointing out that you are playing a game where time=advancement. If you are complaining about very minimal time barriers, then you are playing the wrong thing. If you are playing it and having fun given YOUR limitations, then have fun. However, you are proposing to change an element of the game I enjoy, in a way that I think will negatively impact that aspect. All of this because you are playing a time based game and have no time to play it. So yes, that's why I'm going to point out how you should spend your free time. If you like the game enough to play it and all of the content in 10-15 minute chunks that's awesome. However, if you are mad that you can't do a small subset because of your time issues, then perhaps another hobby is in order.

I am sure there are. However, I would never recommend playing a MMO to them. Nor would I expect them to complain about that game because of their life choices.

That's fine, and something I would applaud anyway. I play from 9-12pm when the kids are in bed. You can get all of the rewards playing that way. You are demanding that the game be changed due to your desire to play only in 10-15 minute chunks, even though you can get everything that people running TFs can get by playing at your own pace. So enjoy the game, play in your constraints, but let us have pieces that we enjoy as well.

Perhaps, but my box is also the way that the designers wanted it. For whatever reason they place value on having team required content. I happen to agree with that. You have many many many avenues for soloing. The only content that I can be assured that will result in a team is Hami and TFs.

Good. I hope you stay a long time as well. I hope that people accept that diversity is good. Is that just my opinion. Yes.

Also, I should note, I run about 1 TF a week. So I'm not some kind of hard core TF person. Which is exactly why I like seeing that team requirement. If those teams dry up, my guess is that I'll just stop joining them. Which is a shame, because that's the part where I get my team groove on.

While I agree that decisions made 5 years ago have little bearing on the state of the game today. That does not mean they are necessarily arbitrary. They could very easily have looked at the content, decided they wanted to have a required teaming aspect in their solo friendly game and kept it the same.

Unless you have been in their meetings you can not tell if this was arbitrary or not. They could very well have sided with people who like teaming and reasoned that there are ways around their caps, but they want to encourage teaming. In that case, it is not arbitrary, it's just a decision you did not agree with.

It is ludicrous when we are talking about a 1-2 hour time commitment for most TF/SF's. There are some exceptions, but 2 hours is pretty much the norm for an average PUG.

It's ludicrous to think that you have so little time but you still play a MMO.

Perhaps you can not run TF every night. Or even every week. However I just don't believe people when they say they never have time to run a TF. Those same people do not have time to play a MMO then and no adjustment of content will help them.

I coach two soccer teams, am a Den Mother, have two kids, and have worked while doing all this. While I am not a regular on TFs, I managed to get the accolade on every character I have. It's not that hard, not is it a barrier to entry. You are playing a game where time=progression. If you do not have time, then do not expect much in the way of enjoyment out of a MMO.

No I do not.

However, the same people farming in PI are the same people who are farming the TFs. To be honest I think there are few that are done for the enjoyment of the content. Perhaps with the exception of the ITF (i've not done the villain ones so can't comment there). They do them for the XP and the merits.

Those are the same people who given the opportunity, stopped teaming. Yes, they were lame teams. However, give someone the opportunity to easily solo something and they will take their IOed toons and do so. At least for TFs, while the people farming ran the teams there was very little requests for door sitting. So it was good teaming content. I bring this up only to point out history. Not that I want farm teams back in PI.

Because the game lacks in variety in many instances. Having things to do where you need to step out of your box is good for the longevity of the game.

Having teaming content where those rewards can be earned in no other way = bad.

Having teaming content where soloists can get the same rewards in alternate methods = good.

Leave content that can only be teamed so that there is a part of your game that will always have and encourage teams. Just make sure the rewards aren't exclusive. They are not, and I think the devs have done a brilliant job setting it up this way.

Bromley, this is one of the first compelling arguments on this subject that I have heard. I would grant that in a heartbeat as too many people don't want to know or care about the actual content.

Which makes me think this is more about rewards/hour rather than content. However, that's just me.

No, you choose not to run team based content for the rest of the year. We are talking about TF/SF based content. You already have the time. That is not your barrier to entry. Don't tell me you want to run them solo and have time for that but can only manage 1-2 a year if you are forced to team. That's ludicrous.

The fact is that people advocating this position do not want to be bothered to form a team. That I can understand. However, what I do not understand is that they can get the same rewards from doing everything else in the game that is geared to solo play. There is nothing wrong with having some variety in content, in fact I'd say it's healthy. If you were barred from getting advancement because of it, then there is a problem.

As for the difficulty slider, it absolutely has in one respect. People running high end teams in PI. Before, if they wanted to farm at any reasonable rate they needed teammates. It was an almost instant thing to seeing Fire/Kin lft in PI. That is gone. Yes, you can find teams there, but nothing like what it was. Why? The people who ran those teams just crank it to x8 no boss and solo on their own. The rewards are better and they didn't need those people before anyway.

Were they good teams? No. However, the same thing will happen with TFs. The people forming those teams will just do them solo leaving a pittance of teams left compared to what there was. At least with the TFs no expects you to be door sitters, so it is good content for teams.

You can get 1-50, do everything a team based player can and get all of the rewards short of Hami-Os. You are advocating taking away the best team based content the game has. That is a really negative aspect for me.