Soul_System

The test does seem to confirm what we already suspect however.


Trick Arrow is still slightly behind other sets. With the team operating more efficiently Trick Arrow at full capacity was less than storm and dark miasma operating at limited efficiency.

IF each time the team had played to the potential of each set I don't doubt that storm and Dark Miasma would have widened the distance.


IN FACT: I believe that NEEDS to be tested exclusively. Running a group that knows what it's doing using each defender type possible.



However I will note, IMO TA is actually pretty close to being where it should be....keeping in mind what it used to be outside of test.



Things left to be fixed:


-Regen for AV and Giant Monster fights. If Poison Gas Arrow and Acid Arrow are not practical for adding this, then extend the duration on EMP Arrow's -regen to like 1 min or possibly longer.


Animation times: No they do not need to be as fast as snap shot. However they need to be shortened. If you made them even 1/3 faster it would be a huge boon for TA. I believe you could cut 33% off while still looking good. Personally I would aim for 50% faster but 33% would be good.

Is it possible to play the same animations only faster or without near as much pause? That should be able to work well.

I dunno why Trick Arrow needs to be flashy while other sets just throw out a hand or thier arms and an effect appears. Just give us enough time to see the arrow knocked and aimed. 3-4 seconds is overkill for that.

Flash Arrow- Currently this just doesn't pull any wieght. The ACC debuff needs to be doubled. This would not increase the power of it to unbalanced lvls as it is still 33% behind the next lowest ACC debuff of Darkest Night. Darkest Night also has the -dmg component.

At low lvl this is especially recognizable as your only power that signifigantly helps teams is Glue Arrow.


One could ask for stronger debuff elements in Entangling Arrow, or some sort of secondary effect in disruption arrow, but honestly the 3 things I listed are the anchor thats holding Trick Arrow back from being comparable with other sets In my eyes.

Few things here.

1. If you absolutely must insult someone and imply they be fired, at least learn spell!!!

Honestly, draft your post in microsoft word if you have to. I'm no perfect speller but I saw some absolutely rediculously sloppy writing all while insulting and implying incompetence.

2. Lay off states.
He isn't responsible for everything you are mad at him about.

He has fricken tons of things both technical and conceptual to consider and deal with every day.

Add to that he has to supervise and coordinate.

Then he also has a life, a family, and a lil boy now.

Also I believe the son was recent, meaning he prolly just made it thru 9 months of JOY (try living with a woman with child) further complicating his life and stressing him as much or more than his job.

He make a convieniant whipping boy for your frustration though doesn't he? Vent on something else, personally I recomend a FPS or action game.

3. Honestly I think most AT have some sort of defense besides blasters, and even they typically have a lil. Defense is getting a nice boost.

4. To-hit debuffs stack on top of that new defense, and continue to work rather well at keeping teams safe.

5. Unlike defenses, to-hit debuffs are usually only 1 small part of the debuff set that debuffs dmg. How could you possibly pick out 1 aspect of a set and expect it to compare to the majority of another set?

6. The major carriers of to-hit debuffs, darkness and rad, arn't exactly weak kittens in the field of dmg mitigation. Where are you finding room to complain even IF there was a small nerf (it's definitely not large if it even exists). Sit down and hush.

7. Since the major to-hit debuffs are perfectly fine, the question would instead be: Should we buff the minor/medium ones?

Work shcedule puts me on odd hours and prevents me from joining yall.

May the Schwartz be with you!!

For dmg I have Snap Shot, Blazing Arrow, Fistful of Arrows, and Ranged shot.

Ranged shot/blazing arrow is a even con minion 2 shotter depending on resistances.

Fistful is extremely helpful. Snap shot just gets squeezed in between like everything.

My main problem solo is endurance issues, but I am not gonna fix them until I7 comes out and I have an accurate idea of where i stand solo.

In fact with poison gas arrow and glue arrow changes soloing should change quite a bit.


My dmg is NOT all that bad, but there are defintely limits preventing quick soloing.

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Before the changes on test, my 24 TA/A COULDN'T solo on Heroic. Now I can, but needing to reapply the debuffs mid-combat is extremely tedious. At least with toggles I'd turn them on and they'd stay up.

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I could always solo my TA/A on heroic, but it is both slow and many times dangerous.

Test server helps but animation times and the need to apply several powers to be safe really hurts.

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I have a 25 TA/arc, I know what it can and cant do. Single target immobs are widely considered borderline worthless. And certainly doesnt help as much as an aoe heal which kin, rad and dark all have.

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Single target immobs are good in the low lvls, solo, pinning AV's and perhaps in small teams.

On most teams though a single target immob is nothing you'll be using.

Aye low LVL TA still needs help.

Glue Arrow and poison gas arrow, though very much improved, cannot pull all the wieght of saving your team early lvls by themselves.


Flash Arrow needs a Respectable ACC debuff (double it?), and entangling Arrow should Have the -recharge of web grenade or slightly better.

Hmm as far as alts? MY 35 TA/A is my highest, and will prolly be my first 50. I've been playing since maybe Issue 4 I think.

Altaholism at it's finest.

I do however have a lvl 32 illusion/kin controller. Other alts are neligable except my lvl 31 bots/traps mastermind.

I might add that Luminara is being a bit modest and that it was a team effort for all of us.



I agree and support what has been said but would like to emphasize a few things.




Flash Arrow. Yeah this powers DOES need the ACC debuff boosted. Both to help low lvl Trick Arrow and to patch up a hole in the TA set.


-regen. We need this badly for AV. In fact it's prolly at the top of the list of fixes TA still needs.


Control suppression. I understand suppressing the same abilities, but why would being immune to hold make one immune to sleep or disorient?

Something as simple as a melee disorient side effect could negate a controllers contribution, much less a defenders with holds.


Ranged shot vs Blazing Arrow. Ranged is indeed doing mebe 10 points more dmg, considering it's limitations it needs to be a decent amount better than blazing arrow.

I don't know if that's because blazing is that good, or if ranged is under par though.


Entangling Arrow, Would still like to see this increase to web grenade debuff status.


Ice Arrow. Remove the -spd, -recharge. Fix the animation.


Stunning Arrow. Reduce the animation.





The set IS rather shaping up and I appreaciate what has been done already.

HOWEVER it still needs a few crucial fixes.

Bah, I'm just fricken ticked off now. I have a day off, I make sure I'm available and my connection goes screwy for approx 3 hours.

My connection is usually pretty reliable. Dunno wth happened.


I'm one mad lil archer now though......

Today on test!!


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* The Slow Tables for Controllers and Defenders were reversed, with Defenders having a lower modifier than desired. Rather than correct this by switching the values, we've opted to increase Defenders Slow modifier by 25% to 125% value. This puts them on equal footing in terms of Slow powers with Controllers.

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WOOT!!! Indirect buff to glue arrow and we are now on even footing with controllers as to it's use.

You can predownload I7 on live servers now.

I haven't been much into testing before this issues though i plan on participating more in the future.


Does this mean they are done making changes to I7 ?

Coo, I'm off wednesday. Unless RL finds a way to interfere i'll be there.

20%? Ahh ty, I believe lum has direct confirmation of the 25% def debuff. I just know numbers i see on these boards.

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The new animations are still too slow for the higher level attacks and debuffs.

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YES, animations are one of the LARGE remaining problems.

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Glue arrow refresh seems ok. The duration seems a bit short but not bad.

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If they ever manage to fix whatever bug is on lingering effects when patch ends the duration is quite fine as it is on test.

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Flash is still too slow and doesn't seem to debuff all that much, course I don't have any debuffs in my attack because I had to have accuracies but thats been changed.

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Even auto-hit still needs more debuffage to help save team, in addittion people are still commenting about aggro issues.

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Poison arrow still lacks, Doesn't seem to debuff all that much and the damage ticks are pathetic with 3 just past even level do's in it. 1.09 damage in 21 slow ticks. Refresh seems fine, fire rate on it still a bit slow but not horrific.

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You mean acid arrow, Which is quite a fine power.

It's not for dmg it's debuff. Debuffs are 15% RES, 25% def base. 25% def debuff is enhancable. Accuracy on this power is also good.

If anything it needs a slightly larger AOE, OR a -regen. I feel regen really fits better on the actual poison arrow though.

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Archery damage is sub par imo and needs a little something, like a minor dot on all attacks to simulate bleeding or something.

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Archery seems a bit lacking on dmg but alot of testing needs to be done yet. The set just got alot cheaper on endurance and some animation wait times got fixed.

My only real gripes are actually the animation time on blazing arrow and stunning shot.

Out of those two blazing arrow prolly needs it less but both suffer the exact same pitfalls as ice arrow on the animation.

IE the animation times in many situations might as well be signing your death warrant.


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Lack of a heal or team buffs makes this powerset not quite as wanted on teams.

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The set has the capability to be just as good at other sets, but it still has a few problems mucking it down.

One of the main ones being the fact it's being balanced around controllers/mastermind.


Balancing a classes primary by how useful they are as another classes secondary is not so good for the primary.

I would be up for this but I run late hours or early ones.

The name of my Trick Archer on Test is Shadow Shaft though. So perhaps it's possible we COULD meet up some time thru chance. Friend me and I will friend dancing hawk on test.

EDIT: Others willing to help test these changes should prolly post your test server character name as well. The more people the better the chance we get some good testing done.


I know I'm not perfect and i run an off schedule, but i'm def willing to help fix our problems.

More on glue arrow.


Wasn't actually testing it today, I was playing on live, but regardless of how it's bugged it is most definitely bugged on the lingering effects.


When the patch fades enemies are freed from the slow immeadiately the vast majority of the time.

The intended working is for it to linger awhile even after the original patch fades correct?


This is not reliably happening, in fact it's rarely happening. It happens a bit more on test i think, yet still is not reliable at all.






Lastly I know the devs are at least looking at this thread. Toss us a tidbit or something? We are suffering slowly from gradually diminshing hopes that other problems with the set will be adressed.

I myself am especially concerned about the controller/defender version being the same. They need to be different or defenders need to get an advantage of some sort in the set.

Such as the defender version having quicker recharges than the controller version and better debuff %'s.

The ACC debuff is around 5% base i believe, mebe 4% from the impending I7 changes. Not near enough.

STILL never had flash arrow aggro to me, but there are enough and credible enough people out there saying it does to say nay.




On a side not I have an archery fix I'll prop in here.



Just got Stunning Arrow today. It rather seems to be like Ice Arrow without the immob. In other words, decent power, animation makes me wanna scratch my eyes out.

In fact it seems to be identical to ice arrow in everything except for the status effect given and the fact it causes negligable dmg . (approximately 1/3 of snap shot) Same recharge, same animation, same duration as ice arrow. (best as i can tell seeing as it ends about halfway thru ice arrows duration unenhanced.)


The devs should really know by now as ranged AT you DEPEND on your range to survive, and long animations kill that defense.

PLZ fix the rest of Trick Arrows animation times, and fix stunning arrow's as well.

Super Speed alone in PVP is enough to negate any single slow power, and prolly any two.


I've used caltrops only to have a super speeder blaze right thru them as if they were not even there. I noticed a very slight slow down, but it was barely perceptible.

I think that slowing powers should suppress super speed or reduce it's effectiveness as a secondary effect to the slow.


Also on the rare case you actuallly Overwhelm the immobilization protection of a protected foe in pvp they merely pop a break free.

Also the fact is that more NPC and PVE foes will negate your -spd using a flying power than will ever negate using jump powers.

Jump would be maybe a mob running away, maybe.


Fly includes COT, Longbow, Arachnos, sky raiders, etc. List em all, thats alot of bases not covered considering the limitation of being ground based.

Ranged shot has had a full second cut off the end of the animation.

The pause behind ranged shot on test is insignifigant.

I just got thru playing with Assault rifle making a new corruptor as well. Archery has less pause that AR I believe making it an overall quicker executing set, excepting blazing arrow.

Snap shot is one of THE quickest recharge/animation in the game.....

My mistake lol, it just seemed to ludicrous of a power to put it on lol, was a subconcious dismissal .

MAJOR UPDATE!!

Castle I have specific and repeatable information on the problem.


While testing Glue Arrow on test i noticed 1 foe of the group still slowed while the rest were not, so I focused in on the differance.


THE PROBLEM:

Foes inside of the glue patch when it fades are freed from the slow instantly. Glue fades while they are in it, BOOM, they are no longer slowed.

Foes outside of the patch when it fades stay slowed for awhile. So if they left the patch 2 seconds before it faded they stay debuffed. I actually had 2 foes a few feet apart on my screen directly show this once. 1 was freed from slow immeadiately and 1 was still slowed for 20 sec.


I repeated this exact circumstance about 5-6 times, and now that I think of it It supports my experiences on live server.


The graphics bug fx for glue is a red herring in this issue but is still a valid bug.





The real bug here is the fact the debuff cancels for all inside the glue patch instantly when it fades when it SHOULD hang around for 20 or so seconds.


But I guess I have to ask, is this intentional or is it a bug?.

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I had minions chasing me debuffed a good 20 seconds after the patch faded. So if they enter 2 sec before it fades they still suffer 20 sec of debuff.

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That's the intended behavior, yes.

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Update, I just got offa live servers. I tested 4-5 groups in brickstown, council at first and then freaks as they are more mobile and easier to see the differance.

When the glue patch disappeared the mobs instantly moved faster.

Heading to test, will attempt to seek out the same groups and will edit post for the addittional results.

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I had minions chasing me debuffed a good 20 seconds after the patch faded. So if they enter 2 sec before it fades they still suffer 20 sec of debuff.

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That's the intended behavior, yes.

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The issue is beforehand the fx would last forever but when the patch ended foes would not stay debuffed. I believe I have even seen it myself on live.

If yall fixed it Then I most certainly appreaciate it.


I will do a direct test on live today to make sure I wasn't just swayed by the masses insisting it was an fx bug only.

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Stay tuned to this channel...

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Weee!! they are looking . Thanks, as one poster noted certain PVE enemies basically negated the slow due to flying and such. COT spectres being a good example.

I'll not pester you about other proposed changes, I appreaciate any help you give us and know though your not commenting on it atm you ARE reading and looking and thinking.

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- I respeced out of Poisen Gas because a weak AoE sleep is crap once you start applying things like oil slick, glue, rain of arrows and so forth.

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Bad perception. The streangth of this power is the 30% dmg debuff. The sleep on test is rather helpful for small teams, low lvls, and soloing though.

The rest of the game the 30% dmg debuff can still make a big differance.

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- The acid arrow needs a MUCH larger AoE AND debuff to be worthwhile against more then just AVs and EBs.

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I agree it needs a slightly larger AOE, however it's 15% res debuff, 25% def debuff and has extremely high base accuracy. It's a good power and doesn't need to have a HUGE AOE. Just a lil bit bigger one.

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- Flash is a joke as it stands, and serves me simply as a way of managing aggro for the group to keep from pulling multiple groups accidentally.

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Pretty much agreed, though every lil bit helps sometimes. DOUBLE the ACC debuff on it.


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- Net arrow is far too slow to take effect, and an Immob does almost nothing against high level mobs that tend to shoot first anyways.

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Aye, fix this plz COX crew.

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- Glue arrow is nice, but it needs either a minus fly or the ability to hit flying mobs, preferably both. Plus, things like Carnie Strongmen and Crey Tanks of all forms just ignore it. Considering a single one of either can be VERY devestating to a defender, this is not good. I even have mine slotted with 3 slows and they just plow through like it isn't there.

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Just add the -fly, perhaps even -jump. Still have it ground bound though.

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- Ice seems fine to me, though I'd love a shorter animation.

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The animation is what takes this from being a decent hold to a poor one. It helps but the animation makes me wanna scratch my eyes out.