Sooner

Part 5 is up of Rose Black.

Part 4 is up of my story.

I'm having so much fun working on this!

I just posted the 3rd part of my story, Rose Black.

I have posted the first part of my own attempts at fiction.

Rose Black

Ish, you can be my favorite purple person again.

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I wish to combine two view points and try and make it a definitive answer without having to label every thread we make as to whether I can post silliness in it. So, as per Aerones and Sooner, here is what I have:

1. If someone asks you to stop with rampant threadjacking, please be considerate enough to do so. Whether it is the OP or not doesn't matter.

2. If you are asking someone to stop threadjacking, do it NICELY! A gentle "Hey guys, can we get back on topic here? WHy yes Hami IS really big and purple. . . ." is all you need. That is it. No need to insult the threadjackers, call them names or belittle their fun. Just a gentle nudge.

and 3. Lay off the notify mod button. There is no reason to continually have threads butchered because one post early on was deleted and everyone just hit Quick Reply after that. If you see a flagrant breaking of the rules that offends your very being, by all means, report it. But if someone is making another joke about my butt, which happens, let it go. You don't have to enjoy it, you don't have to like the poster or the subject, but you CAN keep yourself from reporting it.

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*jumps on board* The first is the only thing I actually wanted all along. The second two are just good general rules for forum life.


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I don't want this forum to turn into a police state. I am pretty sure that no one else does either. And the only way to keep the authorities from rushing in is to keep them from knowing what is going on. So shhhhhhhhhhh!

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Amen, Brother Ish! Amen!

Aero, by forum rules, couldn't specify who exactly he was mad at, but in conversation with him, I was informed that I am one of those people. I hope he doesn't mind me saying that.

So, in light of some of the things said in his post, I'm going to let you know what my own behavior has been.

I very rarely hit the 'notify moderator' button. I would much prefer to handle it directly. I never once hit the 'notify' button in the the "have fun" thread. For one thing, that was specifically what that thread was for, for another, I very very rarely even read that thread. I certainly don't keep up with it.

If I do hit the "notify" button it is for more serious problems, flames, really nasty insults, EULA violations.. the like.

I have very rarely PM'd about anybody. There was some harassment going on awhile back, and I did PM several times about that. When the "facts" thread blew up, I was NOT one of the first people to PM Ex about that. However, I was specifically asked to provide Ex with some information, and as a result of that request, I sent her a PM about what happened in that thread and the problem, as I saw it, in general. If I had to guess, I'd say of the 1/2 dzn PMs Ex says she got on the subject, I would say I was probably the 5th or 6th. Again, I'm more inclined to attempt to deal with a problem directly.

My goal every step of the way in this thread was to be positive, constructive, reasonable and civil. I am a person with a wicked temper, and I'll be the first to admit I can be a real [censored]. I made a concerted effort not to do that here. If at any point I seemed dismissive, condescending, or rude... it was solely due to a poor choice of words on my part. It was not my intent.

My only intent was to try to work this out so that everyone - everyone - can enjoy our forums.

So, I'm making a blanket apology here. If I did not express myself as intended, if I caused anyone pain, hurt feelings.. whatever... I am very sorry. It was never my intention to do so.

I want my Protector forums back. I love this server, I love this forum, I love my fellow Protectorites. I want this to be a place where everyone feels comfortable posting, asking questions, goofing off, joking around... Not just my friends, and not just other groups. Everyone. That is what I want.

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As far as solutions, I like the suggestion that the OP has some rights and responsibility to watch their thread take shape. I guess on the title system, as I was thinking about this on my commute, that the good old Chaotic, Neutral, Lawful system would probably be a decent metric.

Ex.

Event: Friday 7 PM PST Be there! (Lawful)

Silliness Abounds! (Chaotic)

What costume should I get for my Dom? (Neutral)

It's a suggestion that I think for this server could work.

What are your thoughts?

Ex

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At this point, I'm willing to try anything

I would make 2 suggestions
- if a thread isn't marked L,N,or C, we agree that we assume it's neutral.

- the OP should have the final say, but everyone should be allowed to ask that a thread be left alone. I suspect some are worried that this is going to lead to the request being made in every thread, however, we do all enjoy a good thread jack, and, I, for one, can promise I would not. I've only asked once, ever, that a thread not get jacked, I would suspect I wouldn't feel the need to do it again anytime soon.

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Sooner that statement goes for soooo many other conversations.

I know I have seen many and I mean many conversations about the oklahoma sooners.

Amirite?

Kinda like being double standard don't cha think?

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Double standard? When did you ask me to stop?

I say again.. no one here is claiming they don't thread jack.

I thread jack.

Hello.. my name is Sooner, and I'm a thread-jacker.

*crowd* Hello, Sooner!

Please, please.. try really hard to get past "us vs them" ok?

If you ask me to stop, I will.

And I'll apologize when I do.

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This is how the threadjacking began in the first place.

Say for instance someone said....

Fact: Cierra is a midget

I will say...

No I am not.

Then they will say...

Yes you are.

It goes on and on and on.


I mean what is wrong with that?

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Wrong? Nothing is 'wrong' with it.

But, you can see that it is only fun and relevant to you and the person you are chatting with, right?

I don't mean to be mean or insulting by it, but.. it is a little frustrating to read through that exact same conversation in every thread on this forum.

And, maybe, if someone asks that you not have that same conversation again in a particular thread.. you could respect that?

Ok, then...

Can we agree that going forward from this point that we can all try to respect each other?

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/em fun threadjack on

If we really have cliques, can someone tell me which one I'm in? I need to know who to hate...

/em fun threadjack off

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/threadjack on
C"mon, you can be in mine!
/threadjack off

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I will ask one more time.

This is really all I ask.

Its this simple:

If someone asks that a particular thread NOT be jacked, can we all agree to leave that one alone?

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ask one more time, or hundred. Thats usually a direct target for more TJ. The one time I asked that I got ridicule back. (from one of the main whiners, oddly nuff) Ignore it and it usually goes away.

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Well, at least some responded, even if no one has yet answered.

Wolfen, I'm really not aware of the incident you've referred to here. If you genuinely made a sincere respectful request that a particular thread not get jacked and got a negative response to that request, I'm sorry. I know how it made me feel to have my first request ignored and my second request (which was admittedly an angrier request) responded to negatively.

It doesn't help to dismiss the concerns of people who you don't like and disagree agree with, however. Wolfen, I am not whining, I am trying very hard to have a civil, reasonable discussion. And in that effort, I've now put not one but two people on my forum ignore list, for the first time EVER since I started posting. Dismissing an issue that is important to some people, and obviously to you as well, or you wouldn't keep coming back here, by adding it to your signature, is also not helpful and only serves to inflame the problem.



But, I'm going to try to get back to the core here. ..for clarity sake, the following is a response to everyone, not just to Wolfen...

1. Obviously, it IS a problem. We've got not one, but two posts started by EX attempting to address the problem. Whether everyone agrees that it is a problem Ex obviously thinks it is, and she has asked us to try to resolve it. So, can we please try to address a solution, instead of just dismissing it?

2. The problem has multiple roots.
- we threadjack alot on Protector, in fact, we're rather oddly proud of it.
- we have 'cliques.' My blood pressure goes up even using the word, but we do. We do NOT have one, we have several. So, attempting to place blame on a clique is really not helpful.
- there are some pretty strong feelings, and some past history. This situation will be better resolved by trying very hard to leave those feelings out of this discussion.

3. no one is demanding that thread jacking stop. No one is claiming that they don't do it. We all do it.What some of us are asking is that we find a way to be more respectful of each other. Keep thread-jacking, I know I will. But, I will definitely be more aware of what threads I joke around in from now on, and try to be more considerate of the rest of my community. Which is what I'm asking of everyone else.

4. no one is comparing the thread-jacking that goes on here to the rampant flaming and absurd behavior on some of the other forums. That's reason I rarely venture off Protector anymore, life is too short to tolerate that behavior.

5. the amount of importance I put on the forums, this forum, or a particular thread, vs the importance you put on the forums, vs the important she/he puts on the forums is really not the issue. If its not important to you, that's great. If it is important to me, that's not a character flaw, just like it is not a character flaw if it doesn't matter at all to you. It is not a character flaw if I'm more sensitive about it, just like it is not a character flaw if you are really tough-skinned about it.

And.. finally
6. I really don't want the mods coming in here and making the decision of how to resolve this for us. I don't think any of us want that. I'm begging now. Whether you are in my *chokes* clique, his clique, or her clique, whether you agree with me or not, whether you like me, whether you like those that agree with me, can we please just discuss this reasonably without resorting to insults, veiled or otherwise, and dismissing each other?

Thank you.

I will ask one more time.

This is really all I ask.

Its this simple:

If someone asks that a particular thread NOT be jacked, can we all agree to leave that one alone?

Let me see if I can clear it up.

Calling someone "over sensitive" is a way of dismissing what they have to say.

The problem is with them, because they are over sensitive, and is therefor not real.

So, yes it does seem to be an insult.

Bottom line, this is a problem. You can tell that it is a problem because we have Ex Libris in here creating threads for us to work out a solution to the problem.

Therefor, while it is certainly your right to come and say that there isn't a problem, its not really the most constructive thing to contribute to the conversation.

What we need is a solution to the problem.

If I can ask.. we are trying to accomplish something here.

This individual is trying to troll.

Please, everyone, just ignore him. He's hoping for a response, so please don't give him one.

Let's just keep trying to work this out, ok?

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what's ironic is most of the people who complain, and likely PM about TJ - do it on occasion as well. In fact one of the more verbal ones made a point to laugh at a request a whiles back to stop, with a snide insulting remark.

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Wolfen, as I said awhile back, we ALL threadjack. No one is here claiming that they don't. God knows I do it, too.

But the mere fact that people are getting this upset demonstrates that there is a problem. A thread that I dearly loved, and was important to me, however pathetic that may be.. it was important to me, is now locked. Why? Because despite multiple requests to please leave that one thread alone, the thread jacking continued, until the OP was saddened by it enough to ask that the thread be locked. Now, the next time the forum is purged, that thread will be lost. And, yes, I find that sad.

So, yes.. in the same way I, as a social drinker, can be angry at someone who drinks till they can't stand then drives home without being a hypocrit; and the same I, who occasionally lose my temper and yell at my son, can be angry at someone who relentlessly verbally, emotionally, and mentally abuses their child without being a hypocrit; I, as an occassional thread jacker, can be upset that a group of people drive every thread in this forum into gibberish, without being a hypocrit.

I thread jack, I enjoy it as much as the next person. If I were asked to stop joking around in someone else's thread, I would.. instantly. I would not get angry, defensive, or make veiled insults at them for asking. I would apologize, and move on. And that's what I'd ask of everyone here.

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I think that what binds you all together can easily destroy you as a group, and I don't want to see that happen.

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QFT!

Come on, people! This is Protector! We can work this out.

Please.. lets find the middle ground. Please?

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For my time left on here, I'm willing to find it even with a person that hates my guts completely

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I don't know what person you're referring to, Demi, but I'm glad to hear it. Who else wants to join Demi and me in the middle ground?

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I think that what binds you all together can easily destroy you as a group, and I don't want to see that happen.

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QFT!

Come on, people! This is Protector! We can work this out.

Please.. lets find the middle ground. Please?

I don't see where anyone was attacked.

Some people think something is a problem and are trying to talk about it. Incidentally, Ex agrees it is a problem and is asking us to work it out ourselves.

That is not an attack.

No one is saying the thread-jacking has to stop.

What I am specifically asking is if we could please come to some sort of agreement so that we can all continue to enjoy our forums.

...Before Ex steps in and controls it for us.

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What exactly is your definition of threadjacking.

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A threadjack is when any comment is made that takes the thread off its original topic.

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Who decides if it is actually a threadjack or not?

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This is, of course, subjective. Like whether a joke is offensive, or whether a picture is art or pornography.
I think a better question is this: Who do we WANT deciding if something is a thread jack. Reading between the lines of Ex's post, I think we can see that she's telling that we had better work it out, or she will. So.. do you want us to be able to solve this ourselves? Or do you want Ex to come in here and clean up our mess for us?

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Who is anyone to decide which thread is important or not?

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Obviously, the OP has a say, and the people posting in that thread. Since I think we all know that this started from Beka's "Facts" thread, that thread was important to several people. I may have stated most clearly how and why it was important to me. And.. a better queston might be "Who is anyone to decide which thread is UNimportant?"

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Is it not a problem when blantant remarks towards others are made?

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I'm not sure exactly what you mean or what you are refering to, but, yes, not only is attacking another poster a problem, but it is against the forum rules.

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I think it is a matter of compromise not conforming to the others wishes...

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I'm not asking anyone to conform to anything. I'm asking that we try to come to an agreement. I've asked twice, and I"m now asking a third time, can we agree that if someone asks that a particular thread be left alone, that you'll take your fun elsewhere?

We've got to start coming to some agreement about this problem before the mods slap us all down so that NONE of us can enjoy this forum. And that will be a very sad day for all of us.

I have to disagree.

The first step is making sure everyone knows there is a problem.

For instance, if I'm playing my music too loud, it may be because I'm an inconsiderate s.o.b. Or it may be that I honestly don't know its bothering you.

Once you tell me that its a problem, then I can identify myself as an s.o.b. (Well, it doesn't bother me, so deal with it), or as a reasonable person who wants to resolve it. In the case of the music, the options range from me not playing my music at all (not a good solution for me), me continuing to play my music as loud and as much as I want (not a good solutuion for you), or agreeing that I will not play my music after 10pm at night, but before then I can play it all I want.

So, to put this back into this discussion, I am one of the people saying that I have a problem with the rampant threadjacking. Now, the people creating the problem can either stop all together, continue with no change whatsoever, or attempt to come to some sort of agreement.

So, I ask again, as a first step, can we agree that if someane asks that a particular thread not get jacked, that you will take your fun elsewhere? No one is saying it has to stop completely! I don't think you can be a protector forumite without committing the occassional threadjack. But, can we be considerate enough of each other to respect a request to leave specific threads alone?

The problem, for me, is that what one person considers inane nonsense another person considers a fun joke to be shared with the community.

I love my server, and I love my server's forum community. I don't want to lose that fun sense of community that I love so much.

For me, this flared back up into a problem when one particular thread fell victim to thread-jacking, even after multiple requests that it be left alone. And one of the people insisting that they hadn't thread-jacked. This leads me to believe that some people may not be aware that their posts are viewed as thread-jacking.

So, I would dearly love it if we could have a reasonable discussion on this subject.

The main thing I'd like to see is a simple agreement that if someone asks that a thread not be jacked, that people leave it alone.

No. I despise it.

Oh.. Aero.. that is awesome!

<QR>

.... but.. I think the actual purpose of this post can be found here:

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I hate to say it but this means we need to either buff Arch Villains where they cannot be soloed anymore or limit Shivans/Nukes to PVP zones.

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This is a very nice example of inventing a problem so that you can argue for your desired goal. In this case: limiting PvP temp powers to PvP zones.