Solarfox

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But what about those SGs who have achieved power and control, equipted rooms, but are now encountering a price wall because space is limited and plot values are very high.

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We have no idea if such a thing will be an issue or not. I could see how it could be, perhaps... If your base is fairly full, and these new items require their own rooms... Then there could be an issue.

But we don't know that they do require their own rooms or not, so until we do we can do little more then speculate.

If they don't require their own rooms however, there is simply no reason you couldn't fit all of them into a base on the 8x8 plot. It may require some redecorating... But that would be about it.

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I will endeavor to become jaded, vague and abrasive to others soon as possible...

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Well as long as you admit to your mistake and are trying to fix it... We'll let it slip this time.

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As a quick summary to my position on this...

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I have to say that was a Very well thought out argument/rebuttal. I agree completely with you. Isolator for pre-I2 characters is not the same thing as the halloween badges for characters who started after that event.

If those and other badges like it, were still in the game somewhere... But you could only get them if you had started the character prior to the event happening... It might be consered the same thing. But that's not true.

Isolator still exists in the game, and the only reason some characters can't get it, is because it didn't exist when they were made.

Missing out on something because it was here for a limited time, and you missed it. Or missing it because you simply didn't know about it, is not the same thing as missing it because it didn't exist when you went though the tutoral.

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He said the salvage storage wouldn't cost power or control but the enhancement and inspiration storages would.

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Ooops your right, my bad.

I was wrong... So I'm removing what I said to avoid confustion.

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So, my SG which consists of myself and a friend and a couple of our ALTs

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These devices were created with groups like yours in mind.

They give some sort of function to the base of a group who will need a fair amount of time to come up with the 625k prestige needed to put in power, control and the rooms for them.

Although if I were you, I'd really consider seeing how much these new things cost. It may be that you could put them in without deleting your control and power.

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Cos everything is sooooo reasonably priced for SGs that don't have 75 members now...

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You don't need 75 members to have a nice PvE base as is. In fact many SG's consisting of 2-3 active players, and their alts have a nice PvE base.

Posts like yours do nothing but confuse the issue by throwing out statements that are completely false. They fill the actual discussion with whitenoise that makes it even harder to get anything acomplished.

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by posting those picture, have proven the very opposite by advertizing large rooms.

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Those rooms hold serveral empowerment stations. The size of the unit itself is easy to figure out. You can easily fit 2 small and 1 large station in a 2x2 room.

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That's before you even get into the question of fitting everything on the basic plot.

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The screen shot shows the size of these things. Assuming (which I don't care to do, but will in this case) there are 2 different types of stations, you could fit both in a 2x2 room with lots of space to spare.

the small one fits on a quarter of a tile, and the large one takes up a full tile. That means you could easily fit 2 small and 1 large one, in a 2x2 room, and still have a bit over half the room left over.

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I never understood why we needed a separate workroom in which to craft. Why not just plunk down a work table anywhere in the base?

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I can't find it, so I can't quote it... It's possible I am missremembering anyway...

But I swear I saw States or Recluse so this might of been in beta... Say that stuff they had in mind for small SG's would be placeable anywhere.

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But right now the way I read it is just as correct as the way you hope they meant it.

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No it is not. The way you read it runs completely contrary to the stated goals of these new items. Goals stated in this very thread by a red name.

To read it the way you want to, requires disregarding everything that has been said up to this point by red names, and the assumption that the Dev's are so stupid they don't know that Small SG and PvP Base Raids are incompatable ideas.

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This is why they never tell us anything.

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More to the point I think, this is why jumping to conclusions based on flavor text, and screen shots is a very bad idea. Especially when the conclusion reached runs completely contrary to the stated goal of the new system.

There's a number of ways the new systems could be set up that might need improving... Say having to have new rooms to put empowerment stations in, and having different rooms for the storage vaults... Both of those would be IMO a bad idea.

Having the buffs from the empowerment stations be timed, with the timer starting as soon as the station is used would also be bad. Because then, the buff is only really useful if you can rush from your base to the mission...

However we have no real idea yet how true any of that is. We don't know for example if the empowerment stations and storage vaults will require their own rooms. We don't know how the buffs will work.

Until then this hits test, we have at best speculation based off flavor text and a few screen shots.

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Read again...

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I did, and nothing in there states the buffs are for PvP. "Prep for battle in your deadly lair" says nothing about PvP.

Again, these are designed for small SG's which by their very nature can not afford a raid capable base.

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For the "small SG buffs" to be PvP only would go beyond bad design and enter the realm of sublime anti-logic.

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Exactly!

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Storage will likely require a room (as pictures indicate). Same with tempt powers (as pictures indicate).

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Those screen shots were taken to show off the new items, trying to use them as proof that these items will require new rooms is a major strech.

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As an aside, you might note that they used specific language that indicated temp powers would ONLY be for in base PVP encounters.

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Considering that these items were stated as being geared to small SG's, small enough to not to be able to afford the power and control needed to run crafting rooms, let alone a raid capable base...

Assuming that they are geared to PvP is silly at best.

Edit: Re-reading the artical... There was nothing in there at all that said the temp powers would be used only for base PvP encounters.

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If they're timed from the point at which you build them, that's a lot more annoying.

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Unless the timer was along the lines of hours... I'd say they'd be annoying to the point of being semi to mostly useless.

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so you waste as little as possible of what will almost certainly be a restrictively timed buff.

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That remains to be seen. The talk I've heard about this stuff before has been along the lines of temp powers, not limited timed buffs.

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it's quite reasonable to point that concern out.

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I won't say it's not a reasonable concern. This should be IMO setup so it requires very little other then ploping the new items into any room, that you got space in.

But at the same time, there's been nothing hinted at so far that says these items will require their own rooms... Doing so would be IMO contrary to the stated goal, of giving something to help small SG's.

However if that did hold true... I'd jump right in with the "This needs to be changed" crowd.

Based on the screenshots, the empowerment stations and vaults don't look to have a huge footprint. The smaller ones, with the 2 "arms" on them, look like you could fit 2 or even 4 on a single tile.

The larger 4 armed device, which I'm assuming is 'expert' level station would fit on a single tile.

So unless there's serveral versions they don't show, you should be able to fit at least both stations in a single 2x2 room with some space left over. Perhaps enough for a vault.

Now I'll admit the above is all speculation on my part. However it has been said that these items won't require any power or control. So for that side of things at least, you won't need to upgrade those systems.

If you go with the 2x2 room grid, you can fit 9 rooms on a 8x8 map. A teleport room, infirmary, 2 crafting rooms, entery way, power and controll rooms, take up 7 of that 9... Leaving you 2 2x2 rooms for the new stuff, if they require special rooms.

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Make this a Dev response topic.

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Cuppa I think... Said they wouldn't do those anymore, because they required too much effort to enforce the rules of the thread.

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Which is pretty much the same thing

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Not really. I could dump 5 million inf into the base vault, and take it out with an alt. But to put a full set of SO's in the enh storage vault would require serveral trips, sence you can only cary 10 at a time.

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Secondly, all of the existing rooms have a "x number of functional items" restriction in them.

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X number of items suited to that room. These are new items however and as such can be set up not to count against these limits.

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Those two facts indicate...

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What was done in beta was geared towards mid to large sized SG's. These items are geared towards smaller SG's, so how things worked in beta doesn't reall mean much.

Mid sized SG's on the lower end, ones that have filled up a 8x8 plot may have trouble fitting everything new into their base, without changing things. But considering what you can fit into a 8x8 plot, there should be no need to upgrade.

You may need to change your base layout some, but there shouldn't be a need to upgrade.

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But, just so you know, unless these items can go into existing rooms supported by the 8x8 plot it WILL cost 1.65M + new room + item.

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These items are geared towards small SG's that will quite likely never be able to pay for the first plot upgrade period.

So the idea that they'll require special rooms, that require a plot upgrade is quite far fetched. Until something like that is even so much as hinted at (which it hasn't been yet.) there's no reason to assume such a thing.

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OMG PRETTY OMG.

translucent pillars with SG emblem - MUST OWN

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Agreed completely... Not to mention the holograph SG emblems... There are some Very cool fluff items that I know my SG will be spending a ton of prestige on.

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And trust me I'm all for them giving the pre-i2 heroes the chance to get Isolator.

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IMO that's the only case that an exception should be made. Those characters that were created prior to badges even existing.

There was absolutly no way they could of goten that badge, period. As such I think an exception is warnted.

However, I think that's the only case it should be made for. Anyone who started a character after I2 did have the chance to get it. They may not of known about it when they did the tutoral... But everytime I've done it, there's always been at least one broadcast in the time I was there about it.

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The Holiday event badges, will come back, when we do not know, but they will eventually.

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Has that ever been said? I'd love to get the halloween badges again, but I've never heard anything offical about those badges being offered again.

The fact that the Cold Warrior badge was offered again, is not proof that other badges like that will be offered again.

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I just think if you are going to allow every badge in the game to be obtained by any level hero, then I feel isolator should fit that category as well.

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There are badges that not everyone can get. The Celbrant badge for example, will not be made avalable to anyone who wasn't there at that time.

The Issolator is somewhat different, only for those characters created prior to badges being put in. Simply because there was no way they could get them.

However I can not agree that all badges should be obtainable by anyone no mater when they started, if that were done, then there's really no point in having special limited time badges at all.

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If the badge is that important to you as it appears to be (to some of you), then re-roll and get it and go from the start.

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That's not really much of a option anymore. It was after I2, or when ever badges came out, up to the point of the halloween event. But after that, deleting and/or recreating the character means losing out on a number of badges, that they can't get again.

IMO I'd say give the badge to every character created prior to badges being put into the game. Weither they defeated 100 contanimated or not... Just give every character created prior to that date the badge.

Those people are IMO the only ones who have a ligit gripe about not getting the isloator badge, seeing how there was no way they could of gotten it.

After that point however... If you didn't get it, it was due to ingorance on your part, and that's not the fault of the dev's.