Samuel_Tow
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Quote:More or less. But I want to reword that a bit. It's not so much the "natural" characters that are the problem, as "natural" could stand for "energy being from another dimension," as it's the non-elemental, non-energy characters that present a quandary. If your character of choice wields fire, ice, ligntning, energy, darkness, radiation or so forth, there's always a legitimate option, at the very least a kludge.Originally Posted by Arilou
For tech/gadget based powers it's relatively easy: All that stuff can presumably be recreated by gadgets. Likewise magic (It's magic, duh)
It's the natural heroes who are trickier.
However, if your character uses guns, melee weapons or is otherwise physical - by which I mean his super power is HIS BODY - then there is no legitimate option, as Incarnate powers that use the body as a weapon haven't been instituted yet. And I say "yet" because I hope that won't always be the case. Precedent casts an unfavourable light on the situation, but we'll see.
Like I said, though - a mega ground punch, super guns and/or a "multi-strike" option would not go amiss. -
Quote:I disagree. This is a horrible and, above all, unnecessary plot device. One would have thought the Origin of Powers controversy would have made it clear that re-writing people's concepts for them is not a good idea, and yet now we get a new source of power that's not our own? Why? What was wrong with giving us a source of power that enhanced OUR powers and gave us access to new powers which could be explained as extensions of our own? Like Epics. What was wrong with Epics? You could always claim your Ring of Fire on your BS/Regen Scrapper was a gift from the gods, or you could claim it was part of his true power all along. Why go the route of Patrons? Why keep stepping on people's concepts?Originally Posted by Irish Fury
^This. These powers do not come from us, they come from the Well of Furies. With each of my characters, I examine whether or not they would even pursue power from the Well, which is an ammoral entity at best, and a malevolent, manipulative, and evil entity at worst.
I'm going to be honest here - I do not want to compromise my concepts by writing gods into them for no real reason, not when a better explanation could have been had. I will do my very best to write MY characters by MY rules, and if I can't, then such characters will not be written. I didn't spend the last seven years writing for these guys only to swap them out for someone else's reinterpretation of what they were always supposed to be.
I'm looking for reasonable explanations for how Incarnate powers can fit MY characters without changing them into someone else's characters, or changing them into characters that aren't nearly as interesting. For some, this is easy - triple fire powers get pyronic, triple ice powers get the ice Judgement, triple dark get the dark one and so forth. Beyond that, there can be a fair few reinterpretations of what the powers actually represent, like Void being evil psychic powers or Ion being nanomachines and so forth. But beyond even that, there is nothing.
I'm prepared to reinterpret what the powers constitute, but I have no interest in reinterpreting what my characters constitute. I didn't do it for Patrons, I didn't do it for the Origin of Powers, I didn't do it for Vanguard, Midnight, Praetoria and whatnot. I'm not about to start now. That's why I put this argument in my original post - I'm not interested in re-imagining my characters into something they're not, for the simple fact that I like what I came up with and I don't like the things I didn't make them all along. That's why I didn't make them into those other things.
Simply put - I'm looking for explanations of how Incarnate powers could work for my EXISTING characters without needing to re-write them. For the most part, they actually do work pretty well. For the rest, I'll keep looking for an explanation, or alternatively keep waiting for more options. My own fiction is the primary reason why I'm still here, and I have no intention of compromising that. Nothing is worth that. -
Quote:Those do give me a few good ideas, actually. I have a psychc, a toxic monster and a man whose body is made up of nannites, so that's not a bad call. That's at least three characters down, which isn't bad, truth be told.Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Few more nifty things I saw, if they'll help you Sam.
Void colored blue/light blue and passed off as a personal force field explosion. Character was natural with tech elements.
Void colored bright freaking purple and explained as a psychic detonation.
Pyronic colored murk/bright green and explained as an acid bomb (this was the coolest, especially considering Pyronic leaves those scorch marks on the ground).
Ion colored solid black and explained as a biomechanical nanite swarm that spreads through enemies and eats away at their bodies.
Pyronic colored solid white and explained as "the most powerful flashbang grenade in existence." -
Quote:Cosmic-level powers, yes. But not every concept benefits from having fire, ice, electric or dark powers, is my argument. And again - you can explain anything and everything with enough handwaving, but after a certain point, you're no longer talking about the same characters. And I don't really want just any character out there. I'm rather very specific with who and what I want my characters to be.Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
In a universe as open-ended as this one, there's a way to work cosmic powers into any character concept.
When I say "super reflexes, katana, pistols," I mean "super reflexes, katana, pistols." Not "and psychic powers" or "that and super tech" or "that and magitek gadgets." Characters are defined by what they CAN'T do as much as by what they can, and while I've no problem upping their power levels to ludicrous degrees, it's how those power levels manifest that concerns me.
Really, if we get down to this particular argument thread, it's no different from when Patron Pools came out. Some people jumped at the change to use Arachnos tech, some people insisted they "stole" the Arachnos tech and some managed to explain them as personal powers. I, personally, simply never used them almost at all. My Electric/Electric Brute is (or was) aiming to snag Scirocco's Mu Lightning simply because of what villain Electric Melee/Armour looks like, and I have a Fire/Fire Brute alien who's rationalising Black Scorpion's Mace powers as alien tech. He's currently on hold, since genuine fire powers make much more sense for him, but Fire epics can't be recoloured.
Then and now, it has always been possible to explain why a particular character has a particular power... If you're not the owner of said character or not terribly particular about what the character should represent. And I know this is probably my fault, but I've already told many, many stories regarding these characters I'm talking about. They're established in my own universe. It's been seven years since Samuel Tow was created, and his story and concept has settled into a very static state over time as I felt comfortable with what I wanted.
This is the character I want to play - super reflexes, katana, pistols. And nothing else. If I can't find a way to explain his new-found powers as an extension of his own skills, then he will not have such powers.
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In a broader sense, Judgement powers seem very hard to justify for weapon users in general, and I have MANY of them. I have 2xAxe, 2xMace, 4xSword, 3xKatana, 3xDuam Blades, 4xClaws and really very few of them have an elemental secondary to match their weapons. Most of those are pure weapon users, and at least 6 are at or near level 50. Suffice it to say that I have a lot of thinking to do. -
Quote:To be honest, if any attack in the game deserved to be longer, Judgement would be it. I mean, we have attacks that take up to 3.3 seconds (like Total Focus) and 4.0 seconds (Full Auto) and those still get used. In fact, a lot of those look like a souped-up versions of Full Auto - 90s recharge, more damage, higher target cap, faster animation, no crash.Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
The tricky thing with a lot of the attacks suggested is that all Judgement powers have a 2 second animation time. So they can't be long, drawn out Final Fantasy Limit Break attacks where a cutscene plays every time you use it. :P
Even if we have to keep down to two seconds, though, there's still room for some more physical powers. A bigger, more impressive version of Ground Punch with a larger radius, more screen shake, maybe a geyser of dust or debris... I would totally use that, and on quite a few characters.
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I wonder if we'll ever get very powerful single-target attacks... That might be interesting to see. -
Quote:That's a problem, though. Over the years, I've listed many reasons as "one of the biggest" why I'm still here, but by far THE biggest is that City of Heroes allows me to make my characters to my concepts, who look as I envisioned them and have powers that match or at least approach what I originally had in mind. In essence, I'm playing my characters, rather than selecting from a list of preset characters the developers made for me.Originally Posted by Phewmite
I've not read every comment on this thread, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned. Instead of trying to write in the incarnate power as an expansion of your characters own powers, don't. It's widely known that the origin of the incarnate powers is the Well of the Furies so the powers granted to you by the well may, or may not, perfectly coincide with your own powers. It's the well's design to make your character more powerful, not necessarily your characters powers.
I can look past certain limitations, such as Samuel Tow not having the dual handguns + Katana combo he's supposed to, or Ezikiel being slower than I'd want, or hell, even Crash glowing red when she's not supposed to glow at all. But I balk every time I'm expected to explain a power which is completely out of character for one of mine to have. I'm not a power gamer. I don't take powers because they're good DPS or because they stack with each other or whatever. I pick powers because they make sense.
Now, I'm not saying Incarnate powers necessarily don't make sense for anyone ever. Like I said - a lot of characters can have a very easy time explaining them. My own Grimwall was a Fire/Fire/Flame Blaster turned Fire/Fire/Pyre Scrapper. Take a guess which Judgement makes sense for her to have
Revenant Jack is simialr - he's a D3 Scrapper, eventually to be Dark/Dark/Dark/Void. But it doesn't make sense for all concepts, at least from where I'm standing, and I'll be spending a lot of my time playing said characters trying to find a solution that I can work with.
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Quote:On the one hand, yeah - they have the habit of making about half a feature with promise of finishing it "later" and never getting around to it. On the other hands, Incarnates seem to be "the thing" these days, and probably for the next few Issues, so there actually is a legitimate chance they may finish a feature before shelving it for a change.Originally Posted by Angelxman81
Maybe you can color Cryonic in brown, to look like crystal-earth-whatever magic power.
Btw, I know the devs said the power trees will be expanded, but since 4 issues after I16, we still have power customization incomplete, I think this will be unfinished/unexpanded too.
Expanding the power trees may not be a bad idea, though. For a collection of powers that span all 14 ATs, it's surprising to me that there isn't more variety in Incarnate powers. I had a look through the Blaster Epics yesterday, looking for possible themes, and I discovered that Blasters get a broader range of themes in their Epics than they get from Incarnate powers.
Incarnates are Fire, Ice, Dark and Electric, whereas Blaster Epics are Fire, Ice, Electric, Force and "Guns" Granted, they don't have Dark (yet, if we EVER see more powerset proliferation they might), but that's still five Epic themes to four Incarnate themes.
And, by the way, I still feel that "guns" should be a legitimate divine power. I would totally pray to Boltlock, the god of Guns
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Personally, I feel inherent Stamina and Super Side Kicking (LOVE the screenshot for it) were the biggest game changers in a while. Inherent Stamina allowed me to eat my cake and have it, too, and Super Side Kicking removed the need for "sidekick tetris" which I hated so much.
So, yeah, not bad. -
Quote:I was actually thinking of something along those lines, myself. I mean, you can't describe my visions of a "physical Judgement" as anything but Foot Stomp++, after all, so why not Hail of Bullets++ or Long Range Missile++ or some such?Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
I wonder if they could also do a [Hail of Bullets V2 on meth], judgment option.
Something that just now became apparent to me is that all of the Judgement powers look magical in nature, much as I don't want to go with the "Well is magic" argument. What I mean by that is "you shoot elements out of your hands" is inherently slanted more towards magic or at least inborn powers, and doesn't leave much room for technology and, more than anything else, non-elemental-users. That's not to say a technologist can't explain these away, but more that a technologist may want missiles, guns or orbital lasers more than shooting lightning from his closed fists.
This concerns more than visual design, however. It concerns a fundamental conceptual problem with the Well of the Furies and the power it gives us. Are we treating the Well like an Epic pool, where the powers we gain can be explained as natural to us, just "unlocked" by the well, or are we treating the Well as a Patron, seeing the powers it gives us as powers alien to our characters given to us by another entity. In other words, by becoming an Incarnate, am I becoming better at what I used to do, or am I simply wielding someone else's powers?
That's a relevant question, I think, because it harkens back to Patron Pools and the arguments around those.
The problem with this is I'm essentially writing a different character. That's kind of like extrapolating that Luke Skywalker's control of the force becomes so great he can envelop himself in Force Lightning and turn into a giant elemental monster. Yeah, I'm sure it can be explained and written into the story, but it's just not really the same character.Quote:Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
well sam, heres an idea, super-sam has a huper powered brain, well, technically you could stretch science a bit and go with ion judgement and rationalize it as him brain being able to generate powerful synaptic electricity(the little zaps that travel down the axons in your brain cells) that he can then expel as a weapon.
In Sam's case, what's defining to him is his speed, both in reaction and in action. He's the guy who will always spot a trap before it's even sprung, see the hidden sniper a mile away, catch thrown knives out of the air, cut people so fast they can't even attempt to block, shoot a flea in a hurricane and so forth. Yeah, I've occasionally stepped up his powers into amazing long-distance slashes with the typical "cutting wind" concept that shows up in so much anime, but his offence consists of cutting and shooting. Anything more than that just steps into a different character that I didn't write, because I didn't like it.
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Now, of course, I'm not arguing that there should be a Katana Incarnate, like, RIGHT NOW! But I just wish there were something which were easier to explain. It's fairly easy to think of something for might, but for speed and/or agility?
I have a thought rolling around in my head about something to do with transparent shadows, like what you see in Hail of Bullets. Say, your character first crouches, then disappears and splits into transparent shadows which go off in all directions, slashing/punching along the way. Yeah, this sounds kind of magic, like you're creating clones of yourself, but I could easily explain it as a character being so fast it feels like he's everywhere at once and manages to hit many people as if simultaneously. It's the classic Western tale of "six shots that sound like one."
It seems to me, now that I think about it, that the power of the Well seems overly focused on elements an energies, leaving physicality, such as strength, speed or agility behind. And, really, those are legitimate super powers. I mean, speed and agility is pretty much all the Flash has, right?
Like I said before - this is idle speculation, mostly for the sake of wrapping my head around the various concepts I have cooking. For an actual implementation, we'll see what we get in due time. -
Quote:This was my primary concern. A long time ago, BABs talked about why Ice powers only got their limited selection of colours, and it was something to do with them looking like cartoony gems in other colours. I don't recall ever seeing an argument for why Dark-element powers didn't get Bright themes (mostly because I've never seen the question asked directly), but I always assumed it was because... Well, they're dark powers. They have "Dark" in the name, for the most part. Dark Consumption, Dark Maul, Black Star, etc. Maybe it was because they'd look shockingly different?Originally Posted by Oliin
I was just went to look at the animations after you mentioned this, and I didn't see any bright/dark options for cryonic or void. Just a generic 'color tintable' option. Typical ice color options for one and a 'dark' looking set of options for the other.
Either way, when talk of colouring on the Incarnate powers shifted into high gear, and especially when it was suggested one might use Void in place of a more generic energy attack, this was what came to my mind - can Void actually be coloured Bright like classic energy would be?
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I'm not sure how much recolouring can help change what a power "is" absent a non-concept-violating explanation. They have hard-coded damage types, after all, and even in the absence of those, their visual and audio effects are very specific to the element that they were built to be. Electricity still looks like electricity, be it eldritch, scientific or alien, and fire - as I've seen in person - still looks and sounds like fire. Maybe like magnesium fire, maybe like propane fire, or maybe even like dark fire, but it still looks like fire. Or, if I want to be generous, something that isn't fire, but looks and behaves like fire all the same. Since I'm in the mood for Naruto examples today: like Itachi's Amaterasu.
I've brought this question to several people outside the boards already, and the general consensus seems to be "wait and see," which is what I intend to do. I'll spend my time trying to figure out what each character could use and how I could explain it, and in time perhaps new additions will provide extra opportunities. -
Quote:That's good to hear. I'm still not convinced, though, as Ion is energy, and energy has a history of allowing for both Dark and Bright themes. Or is it electricity? Does electricity allow Dark themes? I'll have to check.Originally Posted by Kailure
My ion judgement had a light and dark option.
*edit*
Yes, Bright and Dark electricity already exist in the game, so we have precedent for a Dark Ion. Can anyone confirm a Bright Void and what the Cold Judgement can take on as colours? -
A question becomes relevant when we talk about void. I've seen videos of it, and it looked pretty clear to me that it's using a dark colour theme, which could be a problem for a bright energy user.
So the question is: Are the Incarnate powers customizable between both Bright AND Dark themes? I know we have precedent for Dark Fire, but I also know we LACK precedent for bright darkness (silly as that may sound) as well as ice powers colourable anything outside a very limited colour pattern. -
"The easiest way to do that is to run at least 16 *successful* Lambda or BAF Trials."
For some reason, this makes me laugh and cry at the same time... -
Quote:Void interpreted this way sounds like a good idea for my little girl psychic, now that you mention it.Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I've seen a few people pass off Void as "concentrated anger", a few spine/thorn users pass off Cryonic as more spikes, and I've even seen a few Arachnos Soldiers/AR Blasters pass off Pyronic as a high-output incendiary grenade.
Don't think my ex AR/Dev Blaster turned Bots/Traps Mastermind will have much trouble picking a Judgement power, though. Power Armour designs make it easy to justify much of anything. Ion seems to make the most sense, though, especially with Pulse Rifle powers in tow. -
Quote:No, that's actually what I intend to do. Operating under the assumption that what we see is just the tip of the iceberg of what's more to come, I intend to wait and see if something more interesting shows up and draws me in. Nothing wrong with wait and see, at least not in this respect.Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Not that either suggestion really helps (especially the "just wait and hope you get gun judgement powers" one) but it's the best I got.
But, yeah, recolouring fire blue to make it look like energy doesn't sound too appealing. For one, it's still fire, it still uses the Demon Summoning fire sounds and it still deals fire damage, which means Behemoths take less damage and some Devouring Earth creatures take more (it's either trees or mushrooms, I don't remember). I had the good fortune to witness the Pyronic Judgement first hand just an hour ago, courtesy of a very generous person, and the version I saw was indeed blue. To my eyes, it looked more like dark fluffies more than energy, and the sound and effects just don't look the part.
Personally, I'm with Linkara's 90s Kid on this one - guns are the coolest super power EEEEVAR!
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First and foremost, I want to say that I don't intend this as criticism. I'm well aware of the stigma my name brings with it, but bear with me. I'm not complaining here. This is a genuine question.
I've looked through the lists of Incarnate powers and their effects for a while, and I kept thinking "well, this character could have that, that character could have this" and they always seemed to fit... Until I started wondering what the eponymous Samuel Tow could potentially take. And I started drawing a blank.
I want to restrict my hypothetical scenarios to just the Judgement powers since those are what I'm most familiar with, but feel free to bring up the others just the same.
To put down a little context, Samuel Tow's powers are, essentially super reflexes, katana and guns, in that order. Granted, I can't give him guns in City of Heroes, so that's Super Reflexes and Katana. He's the result of a genetic experiment which gave him super-human cognition, bordering on precognition, which in turn makes him deadly accurate with a very special sword which can cut through anything (the nature of which I never committed to writing).
So what do I give him? I'm aware that there are four Judgement powers - Fire, Energy, Ice and Darkness. Neither of those powers really works in-concept, as they all revolve around manifesting elemental (and I count "dark" as an element in City of Heroes) powers to shoot from his hands, essentially. Originally, way back when, I was speculating about what a "weapon-based" Incarnate AoE could represent and... I was and am drawing a blank. A sort of really fast slash in all directions, maybe? I don't know.
And thinking about Sam got me to thinking about a few other characters. Like Brutticus, my alternate-Earth woman whose powers revolve around her being amazingly strong and so tough as to be next to unkillable, and her powers manifest as axe and shield. For her, I could kind of see a power that's a punch/stomp to the ground causing a massive tremor, or even a People's Elbow to the ground that does the same. Then I remembered Xanta, my "Troll girl," who's also super strong and very invulnerable. Similar concept, really.
Then there are the odd ones, like Inna, my Energy/Energy character. I didn't actually see a "pure energy" Incarnate power (though I could have missed one), and electricity... Doesn't really feel right for her. I mean, when she was a Blaster, she took Foce Mastery, and now that she's a Brute she's looking at Energy Master, speaking of Epics. And then there's my "Kung Fu Robot" whom I made after Resurrection Rise 2's Rook, who might do well with a pure energy kamehamehadouken, but really not very well with electricity, either.
And, yes, I know I've said I'm not interested in Incarnates, and I'm generally not. Probably not for a year or two, or at least a few months. But this doesn't mean I can't speculate, and I expect that at least sooner or later I'll get off my lazy *** and get at least the Judgement slot opened up and filled in. But this really does beg the question of "With what?"
And, finally, I want to head an argument off at the root: No, I'm not looking to rewrite my characters into somehow developing supernatural powers and suddenly manifesting the ability to shoot "Incarnate Fire," not am I looking to explain why they suddenly have the unrelated ability to do so. I COULD write that into their concepts, yes. It would be relatively easy. But then those won't be the characters I wanted to make, those I fell in love with and kept close to my heart even when I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep playing the game.
Consider this a purely theoretical discussion. I'm not advocating change or condemning additions. Just discussing concepts and stories.
*edit*
Oh, right, before I forget - there's my flagship villain: Ezikiel. He's a Stone/Stone/Earth (to be soon) Brute whose entire power spectrum revolves around controlling earth, rocks and crystals. Jane Temblor's "rumble" would be perfect for him - and I thought so the moment I saw that - so wouldn't that make for a cool Judgement power? Sure, yeah, physical damage, but I'd pick it. -
Heh, the online store is still down. Good thing I'm not in the mood for rerolling Blasters today
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Quote:Which, at least in my opinion, is a massive step down in narrative satisfaction. From where I'm sitting, a pleasant if implausible fictional story got polluted with realism, destroying - or at least coming close to it - what was otherwise a pretty alluring utopia.Originally Posted by Arilou
We went from being the big fish in a small pond (Paragon City) to being a (relatively speaking) smaller fish in a bigger pond (the multiverse)
Utopias don't work in the real world, because ultimately they cannot sustain themselves. But this isn't, and indeed shouldn't be, the real world. I would personally see the storyline driven by what would be cool to have.
Sure, big flashy powers are always cool to have, but not cool enough to offset the depressing storyline, in my opinion. And that's all I have to say to describe it - "depressing." -
Quote:I gotta' side with Venture on this one. This is turning into the dark side of Dragon Ball Z. "I'm the strongest warrior in the universe!" "Ha-ah! You're no match for me in my Perfect Form!" We give characters godlike powers, and then treat them like demigod battle grunts.Originally Posted by Venture
Part of the problem is that it's not the Giant Robot Invasion. It's a prison breakout and one military depot, neither being even remotely jobs for people with supposedly godlike powers.
I realise now how hollow my expectations were way back when, but I always envisioned godlike power making us more distinct and more important, not more like a faceless crowd. -
Yeah, the third maintenance was very short. Can't have been more than 10-15 minutes. Good show. I'm pleased with it, anyway.
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Quote:I'll give the Trials a try in a year or two when they're no longer the latest fad. That's usually how long it takes me to "get around to" most new stuff that I have very little interest in. For instance: Inventions Sets came out how long ago? The first time I slotted one was about five days ago, and I've not missed a day of subscription time.Originally Posted by Kailure
You don't need me to tell you that this system doesn't cater to you, but I hope you'll give the trials another good try in a week or two. They can be a lot of fun and you don't need a maxed out Alpha slot to be successful.
I just wish that those who still play their 50s didn't have to repeat the same handful of TFs over and over again. I would gladly play my 50s more if there were anything left for them to do but Paper missions and Tips.
If I've run a TF once, I've run it a thousand times. If I've beaten a TF once, I've beaten it. I can conceivably play the ones I like again, even several times, but "several times" aren't enough in the new system. And that's several times over a long stretch of time, not several times in several days. So, really, the only reasons I have left to grind TFs is if I bring a different character every time, thus renovating the experience and expanding on the characters' concepts, or for the "phat lute," which I have very little interest in.
Let me put it this way - I'm a "Boom! Headshot!" sort of guy. The large AoE instagib powers would be right up my alley. Yet even they can't really make me care about the raid grind very much.
Call it what you will, but I'm disappointed when a game manages to make me just... Stop caring entirely. I still play the rest of the game, and have much fun with it. I recently discovered that even though Scrapper Burn may be bugged, I still love the power to bits, and that my Fire/Fire Scrapper may be one of my favourite characters yet. I've gotten her from 1 to 30 over the last week or so, as I took some time away from work (thank you, endless maintenance). THAT I care about. Raid grind... Not so much. -
Quote:Personally, anything I even have to bring to one is melee, because Scrappers and Brutes are the only things I have at 50. Well, and one Mastermind, but after reading the TechBot's experiences, I'm disinclined to bring that anywhere near.Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Possibly relevant, possibly not, but the trials I've been on have been rather melee-heavy. Now either this is due to people's desire to bring their favorite characters on end-game content that must be repeated ad nauseum (an inherent problem with putting an alt-unfriendly system in an alt-friendly game) or player perception that you must be this tough to ride (which will probably sort itself out with time.)
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Triple maintenance, actually, but who's counting.
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Quote:It's not a question of getting a NotW. It's a question of getting the shards and components. There ain't enough content to get those without repeating, and repeating a lot. I can run one TF and get a notice, yes. But what am I going to make the actual Boost with?Originally Posted by Kailure
If you've already run the TF but don't want to do it ever again, then that is really your own problem. It's there and easily accessable, you just don't want to do it.
Argue what you will. There's no going around the fact that the Incarnate system is designed around repeating the same tasks over and over again in pursuit of rewards. And I see no reason to repeat tasks with the same character when I can run them with different characters and get at least a tangentially novel experience from it. -
No, I was exaggerating and hungry at the time, so I couldn't think of a better comparison. "Fit in a minivan" didn't sound right, since you don't typically ship people in a minivan and I ran out of ideas after that, so "bus" it is.
*edit*
And, no. No offence take. I really didn't think it through