Psyte

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
    No cost but time? Time *is* money. And there are more productive ways to earn money than caretake 100 free accounts over the course of 25 days.

    Besides, we don't know if just one tiny purchase is enough to become Premium. And if it is, it may well be still a very limited account.

    Besides, if the bar for becoming Premium is that low, then the RMTs will spend the $5 to become Premium immediately to do all the things you think they can get away with as a Premium account and then earn $20 for each account they invested $5 in.
    True, true. /le sigh

    And, I might be wrong about this, PL/RMT jerkwads could offer PP earning services - just be stupid enough to give them your login and password, they'll make a character and earn PP for you.

    Granted, I can't say I think particularly highly of the morons that are dumb enough to use these guys' services.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
    First, I'd like you to explain how you got past the account-sharing gate. Sure, you might be able to buy a pass along a Point-bought inspiration from one free account to another. But how are you going to get your other free accounts to unlock AE access on your main accounts since I'm assuming you can't gleemail Paragon Points?
    Well, a better concern is if they can get 25pp's then they can buy a costume part. If that can turn a Free player into a Premium player, then they can send tells and use gleemail. Since there's no actual cost to them except time, they can earn influence, salvage, etc., to sell, then at 30 days unload that character's stuff, become Premium, do a mass email/tell spam-a-thon, and throw the account away. This is more than they can do currrently without resorting to credit card fraud (not that I think they have anything against it).

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
    You have a real obsession with the rmt's which are still very firmly still standing in atlas a LOT.
    In Arcanaville's defense, it was a LOT worse before the devs clamped down on communication options for trial players. And, unfortunately, pp rewards could be a way around those restrictions.
  3. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
    Ha I like the idea of the free points with a point blank marketing shotgun aimed at em, now that's a good idea. Probably work to.
    There's a grocery store that I've got a discount card with. Now, in addition to everything else it does, I periodically get free eggs. Its just a buck or three savings for me (protip: don't move to Hawai'i if you're prone to sticker shock), but I'll get those stupid eggs, and go shopping for the rest of my stuff there too while I'm at it instead of the other places. Now, I still have to buy something to get the eggs, but I get my eggs, they get my money. And of course, buy one get one free coupons are a favorite of mine with Jack in the Box and Carl's Jr.

    A good (and I mean GOOD) thing to do is find out how you're being marketed to. I think Dave Ramsey calls it consumer self-defense

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    One more thing: if this thing is very time consuming it will be seen as a grind on top of being infinitesimal. But if it doesn't take a lot of time, since points can buy consumables I can sign up for a hundred free accounts and earn a ton of points across those accounts, bypassing the time gates. You potentially open the door to another RMT opportunity. Free accounts will cost nothing to make and in this game will be trivial to PL to any combat level you want rapidly, making level gating irrelevant.

    Is it mathematically possible to find just the right balancing point for the reward rate and the time gates and the content selection to prevent trivial exploit? Maybe. How many man-years would you like the devs to allocate finding it?
    True. We don't want another currency program, and certainly those who have financial incentive to abuse the system will do so. We know outfits doing this sort of thing are less than likely to have ethical working conditions for their employees (voluntary or not), and that they are likely to steal credit card information to further their operation in COH and other games.

    What's that old saying? No battle/business plan survives contact with the enemy?
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
    Well, you actually *could* reward Freeks and Preems with Paragon Points for doing stuff in the game if you gate the Points per day.

    So, let's say the Preems can do something that earns a Point, and there's the usual 20 hour cool down before they can earn another point. They'll be earning on average 30 points per month. That's about 7.5% the rate of a VIP, plus they have to do stuff, so, if they skip a day, they don't get it.

    It will whet their appetite. When they get 35 Points and they have their eyes on the 50 Point item, they'll break down and buy Points. Their glacial accumulation will cause them to buy points or subscribe for the 'free' 400 Points/mo.
    Reasonable, although I wouldn't have it every day/month. If it was run similar to the Strike Package of the week (maybe every other week, select days, select months where revenue drops off normally, etc), making it more of an event? That'd be a little more controllable, I think.

    I would personally take the value of those points from Marketing (because, really, that's what it is) and be darn sure that when a Freem or Preem reaches x-many points they get an email with items featured in the shop for about that price and a bit more. Again, probably more back-end butt-pain, but I think that would be a reasonable way to implement such a thing.
  5. Powersets are an interesting thing since getting the most out of them is a matter of delayed gratification, personal style, and AT choices. They're a lot of work, obviously, and new ones really do need some defining features compared to the older powersets!

    If there's a Powers team, and if they can de-couple powerset releases from issue releases, that would be ideal. It seems they're doing that with content releases to a degree with signature stories, so the more they can do that with other content, the better, leaving issue updates for big updates and major plotlines.

    For me I would like to see more powersets come out more regularly than what we've been accustomed to provided there's not a loss in quality. Pricing should be based on how many AT's can benefit from a powerset - a Blaster only secondary set should not cost as much as something that could be used by Blasters, Defenders, Corruptors and Doms.

    I'd be fine paying for powersets, even as a VIP, provided the following are generally met:
    • My stipend should cover a fair portion of the cost of the powerset.
    • The fewer ATs the powerset is usuable by, the lower the price should be.
    • We should see some powersets be freely available for VIP players that add to the core subscriber experience.
    • Powersets should go on sale or have coupons on occasion!

    Now, I've already discussed my thoughts on pricing earlier on in-thread, so I'll consider them "submitted" ideas. But this is what I think for the time being, and I'll readily admit my thoughts/position will change.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
    As I mentioned a second ago I'm afraid this is the start of having to pay for everything, forever and this driving current customers away.

    Btw do we have any info on the powers prices yet?
    Not that I know of. The current expectation I have is the game, as-is, will be the base game as outlined, with future powersets being purchasable for Free and Premium players, and available for VIP use but characters will be locked should they become Premium players. Once the player buys the powerset then they'll be able to use it for new characters and be able to unlock characters with that set (similar to Controllers and Masterminds).

    Again, this is my expectation, my theory. Nothing to back it up yet.
  7. Chad showed the math, actually. $15 for what we'd get for a booster pack. It can work out to be $10 for a VIP if they haven't spent their 400 point stipend, or can be "free" if bought piecemeal over three months using the stipend. I believe the objection is the full bundle (costumes bits, temp power and emotes) should be $10 without the stipend, or as low as $5 with the stipend.

    Thus sort of reminds me of a longstanding argument against boosters; we should be getting all that in our subscription, not bought extra, so we're arguably getting less for the same amount of money or paying more ($10 a pop) more than before to get the same amount of stuff.

    My view is different as are my expectations, so that's all I'm willing to venture o guessing. But, regardless of you agreeing or disagreeing, its important that the devs see these comments and feedback! I've always prided myself as a COH player because the development team and community reps at least listened to player concerns, so we should reflect that by not discouraging other views we dislike.

    I'm being idealistic here, but that, I feel, is only fitting. Sorry for the times I don't measure up to that.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thany144 View Post
    Can someone explain to me how it became evil to make money? Did I wake up in fhe soviet union this morning?
    A business transaction should be win/win, benefitting both sides. For some players they do not feel that Paragon has presented sufficient reason that this is the case, and thus view it as win/lose at their expense.

    We can't define win/win for them, nor case we really speak for Paragon. The burden of showing this as win/win falls on Paragon. If the players feel it is win/lose then the player ought opt for "no deal," which arguably is lose/lose.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
    I'm a 'glass half empty but whats left is battery acid' kinda guy.
    Been burned before, I assume. I can understand it; Paragon and NCSoft will have to work a lot harder to earn your dollar, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I hope they, in time, at least meet your expectations for good buniess practices.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
    No you're right they could be MUCH more expensive...
    Or less, or about the same.

    I think we've now discussed, or at least touched on the two possible extremes of this model.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
    I'd have to say charging more for an existing product by breaking it into components and charging ever so slightly more is shady at best.
    As its been if you wanted one or two things from a booster you would be paying $10 for very little. How is that any better?

    On top of that? Those prices aren't finalized yet, are they?
  12. Hell, once I can buy Paragon Points via cards? I can FINALLY gift people stuff. I've waited years for that. Plus my SG will grow from old folks returning as Premium players
  13. To be honest? No, its pretty obvious they're trying to make more money. They are giving themselves more ways to make money off of subscribers, they're attempting to recapture former players and make money off of the, and bring in new players to profit from. I've been an armchair game industry analyst fir years now and its obvious not only to me but pretty much everyone else.

    Now, that being said, they don't have to screw us to make more money with this approach. Making money and screwing the customer are not the same.
  14. Sounds about right for the DR dev's point, Chad. Spot on, even.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man View Post
    Bah, beaten to the punch by Arcanaville. Curse my being at work.
    Try from a smartphone! I got more typos than Atlas broadcast chatter!
  16. Buxley - one of the things a Dungeon Runners dev noted is that a microtransaction store lets developers make more.money from subscribers. Now, DRs sub was a grant $5/month, so its not the same exactly as COH, but the sub cost represented a revenue cap per player. The booster packs, for instance, are additional revenue.if you buy three a year, that's $30 or $2.50/mo more.

    The worry being presented is the 400 points a month is an attempt to get VIPs to spend even more, both in amount and regularity, and that the devs or NCSoft will attempt to abuse that via pricing to effectively raise the subscription rate without formally increasing the subscription rate. It has merit as a concern, so feedback is important in pricing, expectations what VIPs will and won't get, etc.

    I'm personally happy with things as presented, but it is a reasonable concern. Voting with your wallet helps, but you can't really influence others to do the same nearly as well (is, orchestrated boycott), and I'd be afraid of it turning belligerent ("You bought that? Idiot! You're part of the problem!"). At this time i trust the game's management to not be abusive by my definition of that, but i cant say the same according to anyone elses' definitions, fears or metrics.
  17. ¿SCR?

    MrDead - I would suggest actually writing out a draft and maybe PMing it. Keep in mind the devs and management likely have poured over details of other F2P titles you have available, plus likely have studies, projections and more data plus goals (break even , successful, wildly successful) that you don't. They likely have other considerations, maybe even consultations, in various matters including this.

    Keep in mind this is not final, and can, if not will, change by i21s launch and will evolve past then too. It might be a consideration, might have some dev support, but regardless its not yet announced as being an absolute yes or no... So don't rule it out, but do t count on it either. Just because other (but not all!) hybrids do it doesn't mean Paragon would or should.
  18. Can we just agree to disagree at this point?

    And more thoughts on specials; if there was a way to tie in offers made to buying history (ock thereof) that could work. Probably be a pain on the backend, mind you... But if someone hasn't bought in a while, they should totally get a special offer, you know?
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Texas Justice View Post
    No thanks. I don't like mixing Snickers and popcorn.
    Try arare (Japanese rice crackers) or peanut M&Ms

    Anyhow - there are plenty of other ways to try and seduce free players into paying money. I still like sales, coupons and promotions, myself. They can be regular, time limited, and generous, but Paragon keeps control of everything. Other MMOs do this, as does digital stores like Steam, Impulse, etc. Works great in retail, online and off. Very tried and true.

    I personally wouldn't mind some cross promotion between NCSoft titles like what happened between Guild Wars and Aion. "Free GW: Prophecies Mesmer outfit with purchase of $5 or more, this week in the Paragon Shop."
  20. I very firmly blame the spammers for how restricted the Free accounts are. The fact premiums have to pay at some point is a barrier for them - not insurmountable but when coupled with all the other tools we have? Hey, I'm ALL for making COH more unattractive for them.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
    Well hopefully they'll announce gaining points for completing story arcs or hitting certain levels or some such which I'd strongly suggest.
    Actually, considering it, you've got a good point/marketing hook - I wonder if, however, offering vouchers/coupon codes might be another approach? Say, part of a full set of something, redeemable for the next week with the purchase of something else?

    This is something I like about the move to micros is they can do things like that.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
    Also I don't believe purchasing points makes you premium, it's purchasing a month of VIP access and then canceling.
    http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/fre...r_choices.html
    Quote:
    Returning Players Become Premium Players
    We honor your commitment and experience! If you used to play City of Heroes, you will automatically become a Premium Player. New free players can become Premium Players by buying any amount of Paragon Points
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrDead View Post
    So maybe I missed this, is there any way to earn points other than spending money?
    Not that's been announced, no. They could always run specials and promotional events, though, and a totally free player still gets to play a LOT of the game for, well, free. Seems fair enough to me, and I've been paying to play for nearly six years now.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sapphire7 View Post
    *excellent point*
    I hadn't thought of that, and can see how it could be taken that way. Hrm... I'm nit sure how to respond I that case. I would like to see something - the various reasons to exemplar never seemed to cause similar feelings, but I'm looking at it from the wrong angle, I guess.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Djeannie View Post
    So we're sidekicks to d-listers...joy
    They're d-listers? I could've sworn they were disads or handicaps the devs put in to hinder players :P