Player99

range boost would be kinda neat...but it'd really kinda be flavor wouldnt it?

how is that resistance when the foes are not attacking?

I'd say thats even better than soft cap, as there is (as long as the dom has them secure) 0-chance of being hit back (as opposed to a 5%)

Im very interested in you taser suggestion...making it replace the tier 1 immob damage-wise would be neat...

that, and traps would still be left with the time bomb as they allready have seekers

Which is why what i proposed was to have a good damage bonus, while stealthed, and a moderate bonus while you have TD toggled. it differs from the other secondaries while making Devices still have it's stealthy set-up playstyle

Hmn, what else could be done to TD and CD then? Keep in mind that Dev is also the only secondary with no form of +damage....

+acc can still add up to essentilly do TD's job however, and even if the game is based on IOs, dont tell me there arent some powers that are just made silly by them (perma stuff that was designed NOT to be permanent)


anyways, I think we as the blaster community need to come to a consensus as to what Devices needs in order to be up to par in terms of effectivness as the other secondaries, while keeping it's style...

So far we seem to be on the same page when it comes to time Bomb needing an overhaul, CD and TD beign a source or more damage either through + dam or +crit, and possible tweaking of smke grenade?

ok, lets look at it from a design view then?

what is attractive to a player for picking Devces over any other secondary?


-does it have control?

kinda, it has caltrops and taser..but thats about it as smoke 'nade isnt realy control

-does it have + dam or other buffs?

do mines count for damage? >.> And it has crap defenses and some +tohit

-does it offer more attacks?

yes, but you have to wait for them when any othe rblaster can hop in and do more damage in 1/9001th the time


:S

odd, I almost allways see *some* IOing at the least on everyone I play with (past lvl 30ish.... <.>
and with that it almost allways includes +acc seeing as that is so common in sets

@Fer:

I read your whole post...but there are only two real things that bugged me about it:

1) you said TD was fine if you didnt want to use IO's. Sure, thats all well and good..but almost everyone does nowadays, and TD is rendered obsolete by both them, and by tactics which is a superior POOL POWER.

2) how on earth did you notice a diff insurvival with Clocking Device un-slotted when it comes to defence? It gives you like 3% tops, which would lower your "get hit" rate from 50 -> 47%....which is of course an epic difference considering you state you use no IO's >.>

not to come off as mean, but nowadays we need to look at these things with IOs in mind, even if they were "balanced" around SO's, the prevalence of them really affects this set in a bad way.

@whynot:

why exactly is offering +damage in a new way not really seen in the blaster AT a bad thing?

ok, so it seems to be a consensus that my idea for taser isnt worthwhile, and taser itself doesnt really need attention...

timebomb needs an overhaul

Smoke nade could use some added...something, but nothing major

and CD and TD should/could be the means of having +Dam of some sort to the set?

perhaps...but what would be good?

a constant damage buff works in both IOs (slot for +damage) and defiance...

a crit chance with TD doesnt really stack with an auto-crit im assuming from CD...

Exactly, which is why i proposed a +25% damage buff to both Cd and TD, as well as the sniper bonus to ALL snipes (and crits with AR and DP) in TD

same can be said of Cloaking Device vs Stealth, only CD doesnt make you slower...thats about it

almost every build that involves sets gets +acc, which essentially builds up to equal or surpass what you get from TD, making the power no longer "sell" devices to some people.

i dont think gun-drone really needs a touch-up, as it's free damage and extra Hp as some attacks avert to it.

however, giving it the Sparky treatment (duration = recharge) wouldnt hurt >.>

meh, I guess @ taser.

I just thought it was a kind of "odd-one-out" when compared to the other devices powers.

Smoke Grenade still would not aggro, but having the chance of "choke" makes it a bit safer after you actually abuse their -acc/percep after attacking, as they then see you (gets rid of the percep thing) and the -tohit is negligable at best

@medic:

only 1 power I suggested be fixed breaks cottage rule, and it's the one of rather least importance (that would also look rather cewl when changed ). Everythign else is just about changing some buffs or MINOR effects.

while true, the point is that the power is overshadowed by IOs you can get on ANY character these days.

thanks for the responses

how exactly would a 25% while stealthed, and constant 25% with TD be overpowered exactly?

other secondaries can 2-shot minions with their melee attacks without BU factored in, they also get BU along with various other stuff to aid in damage.

ALL devices get are caltrops and mines, which require the player to set them up and hope they go off right, where as their /fire (for example) counterparts just jump in and kill the mob. Again, doesn't need to have BU to do so usually.

a 25-50% buff depending on stealth or not replaces BU and the lack of secondary damage powers found in all the other secondaries, to make your primary better in exchange for having comparatively lacking damage in the secondary. (and yes seraphael, as I said the +25% from the Cloak is only while the stealth is active, so it'd be for the initial strike. And silencer, I suggested a constant +25% damage buff for TD while it's active....)

Also seraph, I dont think the time bomb should be replaced out-right, as that breaks cottage rule a tad too much. All it needs is a better firing mechanism, so to speak.

I agree with gun drone being fine, why does everyone keep mentioning it?

The design is to have both the +dmage in TD and CD, not one or the other.

as for the no aggro from Smoke Grenade choking...why dont they get suspicious from a smoke grenade going off in the 1st place?

Cottage rule is probably gonna keep taser from seeing a change, yes, but Time Bomb essentially would be the same, but be more user-friendly and tactical as it will mesh more with the set as well as add a unique "detonator" to the game

Heyo Blasters, today I want to share with you all my thoughts on Devices.

Back in the day, Devices was considered the Top-Dog of blaster secondaries, as pre-ED Targeting drone allowed you to get your acc, then slot all your powers for full damages, and be just rediculous.

After ED (and various other things) it seems Devices has fallen from grace, and into the rather unfortunate position of "worst" secondary in general. Sure, you can argue it is great for soloing, but other secondaries can do what it does 200x faster, and sometimes even much safer.

The problem as I see it, is that Devices synergizes with gameplay, not powersets. What this means is that devices is great for certain people who like to set up, sneak around, and watch the payoff for all their work come in one big boom. Unfortunatley, none of the blast sets (except maybe ice due to slows) really compliment this style as they are all about slamming down the damage constantly, and devices just slows the action down and forces them to wait. Another way to look at it is that devices has nothing to offer to the primary set (except +tohit...which they almost all get from Aim). All the secondaries have an immob, or in energy's case an alternate means of keeping a foe at range. Most have a mez, most have some sort of AoE (DoT), and they all have big-hitters. However, what all these sets also have is the ability to pop their abilities on the go, and that is crucial for blasting as we lack the luxury of being able to sit there and let the baddies wail on us as we hide behind armors.

That said, there are alot of unique (to blasters) powers found in devices, that could work very well together...but for some reason dont really seem to.

Let's break it down, shall we?

Web Grenade

Fine as-is, it's the standard immob, and it trades damage for a 50% slow. Awesome.

Caltrops

Caltrops is caltrops: awesome. No need for re-working (although it is a bit odd that a medeival device is used when everything else seems so high...er tech)

Taser

A cool ranged stun with a quick animation. While sweet on it's own...there isnt much synergy with the set's other powers for it. Sure, you could web-nade and stun someone...but as a blaster you could have used that time to lay down the damage. Another thing is why would you use a stun if the point of devices is crowd control and stealth? (caltrops with mines, then smoke grenade / etc to get a variety of foes hurting and exploding from relative safety)

Targeting Drone

Ah, the former best power a blaster could have! Raises Tohit and perception for relativley little cost. The problem nowadays is that the effects can be emulated on any set with rather minimal IO slotting. This power needs something else (besides an interaction with snipe rifle) to make it stand out from what everyone else can do.

Smoke Grenade

This is an interesting power. It lowers ToHit by about 5%, and enemy perception. Unfortunatley, once you damage them they will still realize you're there, and -5 tohit isnt that much defense...

Cloaking Device

CD is essentially stealth without the movement penalty. It's a glorified pool power, and doesnt even make too much sense when you have smoke grenade. Both powers stacked enable you to ghost missions, but are essentially useless in a team setting. Both are also rather useless after you actually attack...which is a blaster's #1 priority.

Trip Mine

Awesome, no real changes needed.

Time Bomb

Suckage, major changes needed.

As it stands, this lemon takes WAYYY too long to set up, WAYYY too long to go off, and does WAYYY too little damage for all that set-up. Hell, 2 trip mines can do more damage in 1/3rd the time.

Gun Drone

I have mixed feeling about the Gun Drone. On the one hand, it is free damage for a while, and can even take aggro off of you. On the other, it is meh at both being a mini-tank and at doing damage...but otherwise it's fine. A neat add-on to any blaster, and to make it better may be making it rediculous.


Ok, so as I see it the problem powers as of today are Taser, Smoke grenade/Cloaking device, time bomb and sadly, Targeting drone.

Starting with the Taser, I feel it is out of place in both use and potencey in this set. Most blasts sets come with a stun/hold that is better, and all secondaries but fire have better control or damage with their control. Taser is odd in that it is also in the set based upon setting up for whatever comes your way...and it works like any stun that youd just pop in when something takes you by surprise.

To fit with the theme, and to add more utility I propose taser be changed slightly to Taser Shockwave.


Well, maybe not slightly.

A Taser Shockwave is a small device used mainly by SWAT that does exactly what Taser would do, but in a cone. The animation could be the same as Trip Mine, and the device be a 1-shot that activates once a foe is infront of it and in range. Otherwise it will behave just like Taser does today in all other regards.


Next up we have the Smoke Grenade and Cloaking device. These two powers, as I explained above, are odd in that one is gimmicky, and the other is a glorified pool power. To fix them up I think they should become a soft control and buff, respectivley.

Smoke Grenade should have the "choke" effect that puts them in a coughing animation, similar to some fire control powers, that will act like the pseudo-hold that Poison Gas Trap has in the form of the puke. It will be a small chance, and un enhanceable, but it will add a new layer of utility and defense to the power as some foes wont attack you/the team while choking.

Cloaking Device should offer another incentive/bonus to using it. As it stands, it is stealth without the movement penalty, and thats about it. Devices lacks any form of +Damage like all other blast sets do, and this could be a perfect place to implement such a bonus. Essentially, while the stealth is active, the user will have a constant +25% damage bonus. This is useful for essentially anything, but especially for alpha-strikes from stealth.

Next up will be Targeting Drone. As stated, TD is currently obsolete thanks to IO's, as anyone can get it's effects automatically. I propose, like with CD, a +25% damage bonus while running it. This easily stacks with the new defiance, making for an attractive bonus for all primaries. Another possible change will be to add the damage bonus it gives to Sniper Rifle, to all Sniper Powers. This will make devices even better for it's stealth abilities, as with CD, TD and the Sniper bonus, you automatically have +50% damage, then a bonus to your snipe. For Sniper Rifle and maybe Dual Pistols it can let them Critical, due to both those sets also lacking AIM.

Lastly, the controversial Time Bomb needs a complete revamp. It's nigh unanimous among players that the power is severley under-performing when compared to anything that has similar roles, especially with the advent of powers such as Omega Manuever. It is also unique in that it can be targeted by enemies, and thus blown up by them, but even then the set-up is way too long for the payoff (2 trip mines do more damage at base).

I propose that it be reworked to have a slightly longer animation than trip-mine, along with 1/6th of the current recharge (aka 1minute). Then, it can work like swap ammo does: toggled effect. Activating the toggle makes you plant the bomb, and maintaining it keeps it from going off. Fortunatley being mezzed will not set it off due to toggle changes. After you un-toggle, it is set off, or if a foe hits it with an AoE, doing the same damage it does now (about 300 @ lvl 50). This change allows it to mesh with other bombs/devices, as well as still be the heavy-hitter.

Summary:

These changes will give devices new utility to bring it up to speed with other secondaries in both soloing and teaming, while keeping it's unique playstyle. It will also have a cool "stealth strike" 50% damage bonus as long as you have both TD and CD, as well as the sniper bonus to make it an even more potent soloer. It offers a neat alternative to the BU powers in that while it doesnt offer as big burst, it is a nigh constant 25-50% buff. Changes to Taser and Time Bomb easily stack with smoke grenade, trip mines and caltrops, as they all can create a death field for opponents once they wander onto it.


Thoughts?