Pax__

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Slippery slope" is not an inherently false premise. The fact is, the moment you give people a "way-back machine" for ONE badge, someone else willpop up and [censored], whine, moan, and complain about ANOTHER badge, until it TOO gets it's own "way-back machine" opportunity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that in order for the argument to be valid, you would have to have an environment where those claims don't already occur. And in this environment, they very definitely have in the past. When the Winter Lords came back, there were posts of, "Let us have the other badges from Frosty!" I'd bet when Halloween rolls around again, you'll have a good number of posts on gettting those badges again as well. And cries of, "Where's our Celebrant for the two-year anniversary?"

[/ QUOTE ]
The point isn't that allowing ONE o-back will create desires or suggestions regarding the other badges, it's that it steadily gets harder and harder to say no, each timeyou say yes.

[ QUOTE ]
To use a real-world example: If you ask me to bake you chocolate chip cookies, and I do so, it does not guarantee that I'll be more likely to give in to your request of, "Bake me a cake!".

[/ QUOTE ]
No, but if you show up in a roomfull of people, with a big, heaping plate of cookies, and I ask you for one cookie ... you look like a bit of an [censored], if you say no to the next person. If you say "yes" five times, the sixth person is VERY likely to be offended if you finally say "no". And remember, it's just ONE cookie, apiece, from that plate. IDENTICAL cookies for all intents and purposes.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Say your cell company starts a new promotion with your plan. But to get it you need to ask for it. It'll give you 100 extra minutes of usage a month.

[/ QUOTE ]
And it says "New customers only". Thus, I am disqualified, sucks to be me, oh well.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, answer the scenario AS I PRESENTED IT. Don't change it to fit your argument. As I presented it, it's illegal. They couldn't do it. They would HAVE TO allow you to get it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then put together a scenario that would EXIST in the real world - because what you described ... Simply. Does. Not. Happen. That. Way.

[ QUOTE ]
They could ONLY hold it against you if it required either a difference in your monthly rate plan or if it was LIMITED TIME promotion. Beyond that, they'd have to allow for it to be taken to their existing customer on that plan.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not how contract law works. Once you have a contract with them, they're free tooffer anyone ELSE a different contract, and you're just S.O.L.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, you're adding to my scenario to make it fit your argument. Read what I said above.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I added to it to make it fit reality.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want... that is the simple truth of the matter.

[/ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want, but, the suggestions for "some contact should give a mission that has Contaminated in it" is in absolutely no way limited only to Pre-I2 characters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh huh... and quote ONE post of mine where I sign off on a mission ok'ing us to get Isolator.

[/ QUOTE ]
I spoke to the thread-as-a-whole.

[ QUOTE ]
*I* am asking for it to be awarded outright to all toons who were built PRE-I2.

[/ QUOTE ]
HELL NO. Any character that - for any reason - didn't do the work, certainly is not entitrled to gettign the REWARD. Something like "Golden Age" awarded to all pre-I2 heroes, sure. Isolator? Sorry, you missed that bus - even if "missed", in this case, means "walked out of the station before the busses were BUILT".

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which is why the suggestion I made in this thread - some thirty seven pages ago - was to give the pre-I2 characters their own, exclusive badge .... instead of Isolator. Something only THEY could have .... "Golden Age Hero" was one of the names suggested for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with that is... people will STILL want Isolator.

[/ QUOTE ]
To which ppeople, I'd say "tough luck" - and point at the fact that they have a badge which only they can get. If they STILL want to whine about Isolator ... they're crybabies stuck in "gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme" mode, and screw 'em, every last one; I loathe and despise the ludicrous - and baseless - sense of entitlement I've been seeing from many of the "I want Isolator, dammit" crowd of late.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd gladly take a different badge in it's place. Especially one that gave me the credit of being a 'Golden Age Hero'. That'd be a badge of honor. However, I'd still want Isolator.

[/ QUOTE ]
See above.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tutorial is not a special event. It's an option available to ALL toons.

[/ QUOTE ]
And it's inherently and intrinsicly "... for NEW CUSTOMERS only ..."

[/ QUOTE ]

Says who?

[/ QUOTE ]
The game code itself - new characters are allowed to enter Outbreak; existing characters only end up there as a result of bugs.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh wait... I'm not a new customer. Been here since about two weeks after release and can get it on any new toon I roll.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right, on a NEW CHARACTER. As in, "new customer" as far as the character-record database is concerned.

[ QUOTE ]
I wanted to comment on one thing here:

[ QUOTE ]
It is an all-or-nothing affair; if you can go back for ONE badge you missed, then you should be able to get EVERY badge you missed - othing else is at all even remotely fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a huge, personal, and in my opinion invalid assumption. Put on your skis, and watch out for the jump at the bottom of that slippery slope - it's a doozy.

There are several things that I agreed on in your previous post, but this argument's nigh-crystal clear representation of the classic slippery slope fallacy comes close to invalidating your other arguments to my eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]
"Slippery slope" is not an inherently false premise. The fact is, the moment you give people a "way-back machine" for ONE badge, someone else willpop up and [censored], whine, moan, and complain about ANOTHER badge, until it TOO gets it's own "way-back machine" opportunity.

It works like this, you see: once you set the precedent of doing something, it becomes that much harder to justify not doing so again. And each time you succumb to the demands that generated that sort of concession, it becomes even harder to justify finally saying "no more".

Occams Razor would seem to dictate that the simplest answer is to say "no" from day one, and make NO exceptions.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But Liquid... barring the badge what would have been the point? Outside of the badge there's still no point.

I get the principle... but the fact is had the badge been avail then or we had the advance notice... those of us who do get every badge we can would have invested the time in.

[/ QUOTE ]

So? If you didn't earn it, you didn't earn it. Even if you didn't "know" about it. Odds are, any new player to the game won't know about it either, so they shouldn't have it retroactively awarded to them just because "they didn't know about it".

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you so scared of them awarding this to toons who weren't given the CHANCE to earn it?

[/ QUOTE ]
The suggestions here would NOT be limited only to characters made pre-I2. They would be available to anyone who didn't have Isolator.

And I'm not scared of the idea, I am offended by it.

[ QUOTE ]
Say your cell company starts a new promotion with your plan. But to get it you need to ask for it. It'll give you 100 extra minutes of usage a month.

[/ QUOTE ]
And it says "New customers only". Thus, I am disqualified, sucks to be me, oh well.

[ QUOTE ]
Now you've had your plan for 6 months. So they tell you you can't get it because you didn't ask for the bonus when you got the plan (when it didn't exist.) How idiotic would that be? You wouldn't get upset and feel cheated?

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, that's STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE. Most special deals like that state, clearly and up-front, "new customers only".

[ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want... that is the simple truth of the matter.

[/ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want, but, the suggestions for "some contact should give a mission that has Contaminated in it" is in absolutely no way limited only to Pre-I2 characters.

Which is why the suggestion I made in this thread - some thirty seven pages ago - was to give the pre-I2 characters their own, exclusive badge .... instead of Isolator. Something only THEY could have .... "Golden Age Hero" was one of the names suggested for that.

And since it'd involve some quick, relatively-easy datamining ... it could be limited SOLELY to characters made before I2.

The problem with all the bloody other suggestions here is, as I've said already, THEY ARE NOT LIMITED TO PRE-I2 CHARACTERS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. Anyone who simply chose not to get Isolator would be able to run the mission and go back to get a badge they missed.

[ QUOTE ]
Tutorial is not a special event. It's an option available to ALL toons.

[/ QUOTE ]
And it's inherently and intrinsicly "... for NEW CUSTOMERS only ..."

[ QUOTE ]
You provide circular arguements. You're taking whatever stance that lands you in opposition to any idea. On one hand you agree with this post..

[...]

Yet you then disagree with its implementation. Circular arguement is no arguement.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I was agreeing with the part of that post that suggested choice of path affects opportunity for badges/etc, in an irrevocable, unreversible way. My apologies if I was not sufficiently clear on that - but I am hardly using circular logic or being inconsistent in my position.

My position - to sum it up in as few words as possible - is this:

It is an all-or-nothing affair; if you can go back for ONE badge you missed, then you should be able to get EVERY badge you missed - othing else is at all even remotely fair. However, I personally believe once you miss the bus, YOU MISS THE BUS, and there should not be ANY "do-over" opportunities made or given especially to recover missed badges.


[ QUOTE ]
1. Under my proposal, each badge is still earned. You must complete a mission to earn the badge or temp power. It is not 'something for nothing'

[/ QUOTE ]
All your proposal does is give those that miss - OR DECLINED TO GET - Isolator, a chance to cath their badge-count up to those who DID put in the time and effort, post-I2, to get Isolator.

And to those that got Isolator? You give a temp power. Whoop-de-DOO, Pure; that's what clued me in that badge count is what you're truly worried about; your proposal says "Do this mission and the guys who're short a badge, GET AN EXTRA ONE".

[ QUOTE ]
2. For the record, I'm not a badge exclusivist. I would love to see an opportunity to earn some of the previous kill x badges that were effort rewards during special events. I think that anyone wanting a badge that requires some sort of effort should have that opportunity. Perhaps next Halloween Paragon City and the Isles will be littered with glowing pumpkins.

[/ QUOTE ]
I honestly hope not. I hope that the precise same event is NEVER repeated again.

[ QUOTE ]
3. the fact remains that Isolator is not a special event badge. It is not a 'log in and get it' badge. The only one that closely resembles it is the sky skiff badge. sky skiffs were part of the 24-33 TV trial. anyone over 33 could not get it. The devs added the skiffs to the Terra Volta zone in response.

[/ QUOTE ]
The fact remains, Isolator is defined by the developers as a "limited opportunity badge" - which is what they call Event badges too. I say this due to their comments regarding Isolator, etc, never being required for an accolade.

"Limited opportunity" inherently andintrinsicly means if you didn't get it THEN, you don't get it EVER.

[ QUOTE ]
(Zookeeper is not a comparable badge. People got heartburn because the requirements to get it.. 1000 as opposed to 10000.. were lowered. Even though they were made tougher than when 10000 was required.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, it is comparable. Thebadge went from: "Jump through these flaming hoops like a good little poodle, and keep jumping until we say STOP" ... to: "Okay, go do a lot of fighting".

A badge that was very difficult and tedious to get, became EASIER to get.

Your proposals would - all of them - essentially do the same with Isolator.

[ QUOTE ]
The Isolator badge is a "defeat #" badge! It is NOT a special event badge and in no way compares to Celebrant, or the Winter, Halloween, or Valentine's Day Event badges, because it's a totally different type of badge!

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, no it's not that different. The Halloween badges were, by and large, "defeat X of Y" badges, too:
[*] Hunter ... defeat 20 Halloween Vampires[*] Buster ... defeat 20 Halloween Ghosts[*] Shifter ... defeat 20 Halloween Werewolves[*] Dead Head ... defeat 20 Halloween Zombies[*] Malleus ... defeat 20 Halloween Witches

Oh, and there's also:
[*] Cold Warrior ... defeat 100 Winter Lord minions/LTs/bosses

Funny. I thought you just said Isolator being a "Defeat X" badge made it sompletely different from the Event badges ...? Guess you were wrong, hmm?

[ QUOTE ]
Those were limited-time event badges! Isolator is available right now! This very minute! Except no one has access to the zone unless they are a brand new character!

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, that Exception there makes it a bit special, wouldn't you say?


[ QUOTE ]
That one can not! When Issue 2 and the entire badge system was introduced the devs really should have awarded Isolator to ALL characters created between Issue 1 and 2, because as the badge says, we all "began our career on a high note."

[/ QUOTE ]
Nah. "Old Timer", yes - you will note I support the idea of an exclusive bade for characters that were created before I2 came out. But I don't support an "oops, Imissed one" do-over chance for ANY badge, unless it exists for ALL badges - regardless of source or type!!

And I'd rather they didn't have ANY do-over options for badges. Ever. Even if it WOULD jack my own badge counts up tremendously ...

[ QUOTE ]
What makes you think another celebrant badge might not come for the year 2 or 3 or 5 ect..ect.. If it does then people will have the chance to get the badge again providing they do not change the art work or description.

[/ QUOTE ]
Even if they came out with a "Celebrant 2" .... guess what, that'd be a different badge. Do you have Celebrant? Take a look at it - it's got a "1" on it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"The event during which they were available has ended." Sounds simple enough to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? WOW! I didn't know that thanks! My question still stands what makes you think these events will not happen again in the future? If they do then guess what, you and everyone else will have the chance to get them for a limited time yet again.

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe the developers have said they won't repeat the Halloween event, at least. Can't find it in Search, but my search-fu on this forum is weak, so ...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As it stands, my pre-issue 2 toons have no chance whatsoever to get Isolator.

[/ QUOTE ]
Each and every ONE of my characters have no chance whatsoever to get Hallow Spirit, Malleus, Celebrant, Toothbreaker, and the like.

So ... your point is?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did you see someone say these events will never happen again?

[/ QUOTE ]
Celebrant, at least, is inherently an event that will never happen again. Sure, COV may have it's own parallel - but it won't be the same badge.

[ QUOTE ]
There has to be some reason why you feel you will never get the chance to get these badges on your heroes.

[/ QUOTE ]
"The event during which they were available has ended." Sounds simple enough to me.

[ QUOTE ]
Isolator has been here since issue 2 and has not been avaiable to people who missed it, so they can actually say there is no chance in the world they will get it until someone actually makes it avaiable in game.

[/ QUOTE ]
To which I have said, [bif[/b] the character was created pre-I2 ... give them an alternate badge to recognise the fact that they pre-date Badges entirely.

But going back to get a badge you missed? Or having ANYone who lacks Isolator be able to get a pity badge? No; ten times, no; a hundred times, no; TEN THOUSAND TIMES, NO.

[ QUOTE ]
See right now, Isolator is known by everyone, so if they roll a new toon, they can easily delete and re-roll. For us veterans who missed it, we do not have that option now, because if we were to reroll, we would be giving up even more badges then what we would be gaining and not have the chance to earn what we lost until the special events rolled around again.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're so sure that the events WILL roll around again that you can dismiss my entire "what about X, Y, or Z event badges" concern ... then hurry up, delete, and re-roll.

...

Or are you perhaps saying that you really are concerned that those badges won't ever be available again?

Think about it.

[ QUOTE ]
Any post Issue 2 that did not receive Isolator or Jailbird gets 'New-comer', text reads "You're the new kid in town" (which works for heros or villains)

[/ QUOTE ]
NO. No way in the nine burning hells; that's "somethign for nothing" - and if someone does go through all the effort of earnign Isolator, why should they then be denied that "Newcomer" badge ....?

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone with Isolator or Jailbird gets a nifty limited use temp power.

[/ QUOTE ]
Temp Power ---> nonpermanent reward. So, I say again ... NO.


[ QUOTE ]
This does 3 things. It allows oldtimers our own badge.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with that. Indeed, I think it's appropriate.

[ QUOTE ]
It allows those who passed on killing 100 contaminated their own badge (yeah they have to share it with villians, because they missed the hero or villian specific one when they had the chance).

[/ QUOTE ]
NO. Again, this is something for nothing, and should never be allowed. If you miss or pass up thechance - TOUGH LUCK.

I passed up the chance for Toothbreaker - so "not havign that badge" is noone' fault but my OWN. Most of my heroes passed up on Isolator - again, only my OWN damned fault.

You should not get a badge, just because you failed to get another badge. TANSTAAFL.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And here's a dig for you "must have EVERY badge" folks: Bug Hunter. The odds of another player being awarded that are so close to zero as to be indistinguishable from it. IOW, "fat freakin chance".

But it HAS been awarded ONCE.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's still a chance though. However small.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's always a chance - however small - that a BUG will land you in Outbreak again, and you can nab Isolator while you're there.

Still, how many people do you think will find - and provide the testing data to PROVE - a literally gamedestroying bug ...? I will be surprised if Bug Hunter is ever awarded again.

[ QUOTE ]
As it stands, my pre-issue 2 toons have no chance whatsoever to get Isolator.

[/ QUOTE ]
Each and every ONE of my characters have no chance whatsoever to get Hallow Spirit, Malleus, Celebrant, Toothbreaker, and the like.

So ... your point is?

[ QUOTE ]
Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread: The Pro-Isolators in this thread are being nice, cordial, and posting constructive ideas to rectify a badge that should have been taken care of long, long ago. Our counter arguements are also nice and cordial.

Not once in this thread have we done as you described here Celtic:

[ QUOTE ]
...You [censored], whine, moan, and further prod just to get something your way...

[/ QUOTE ]

The only people in this thread that are acting that way are you Celtic and the other Anti-Isolators.

[/ QUOTE ]
Way to over-polarise.

Frankly, this thread exists in the first place because at least ONE person had the attitude of "gimme". As I write this, I note that we're up to PAGE THIRTY-SIX already - and, I mean, why else ... if not to "[...] [censored], whine, moan, and further prod just to get something your way [...]" ...?

Almost every "solution" presentedhere has only created multiple additional problems (largely related to Event badges); the only one that wouldn't be a problem, really, is my own idea: give the pre-I2 heroes their own exclusive badge called Old-timer or Golden Age Hero or the like. But not Isolator; Isolator is supposed to be earned in the Tutorial, and nowhere else.

Yet, here we are, thirty-six pages in ... and still we people continuing to "[...] [censored], whine, moan, and further prod just to get something [...]" ...!!

[ QUOTE ]
Getting the badge has nothing to do with who sees it or what they think. It's for the players of the game that are badge collectors to collect a badge that they should have had access to when the badges were first implemented!

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, nice sense of entitlement you got going there. Maybe accounts opened long AFTER an event has ENDED should automatically get every possible Badge from that event, then? After all, if you are entitled to Isolator, than I am equally entitled to every OTHER damn badge out there. Right?

And here's a dig for you "must have EVERY badge" folks: Bug Hunter. The odds of another player being awarded that are so close to zero as to be indistinguishable from it. IOW, "fat freakin chance".

But it HAS been awarded ONCE.

[ QUOTE ]
[...] giving every Pre-Issue 2 character a chance to get Isolator [...]

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with EACH AND EVERY ONE of your so-called "creative" ideas is this:

You cannot limit it solely to pre-I2 characters.

Yep, that's the problem, in a nutshell, right there. If you make it a mission available to everyone over Level X, then you make it available to everyone over Level X.

And that is then unfair to ALL HEROES, for one simple reason:

Turncoat.

See, if you're a hero - even if,miraculously, you've a hero who DOES have every single badge - even Bug Hunter, you lucky [censored]! - and you swap sides to Villain, there is one Villain-side badge YOU WILL NEVER EVER GET. That badge is Jail Bird, and it's a Tutorial-only badge.

OTOH, with any one of your various "creative" ideas ...?

My VILLAINS would be able t get every non-Event HERO badge, plus they could have Jail Bird.

Fair? I think not.

I just had a thought.

"Kill X" badges - they normally count the efforts of ALL team-members, yes?

...

Has anyoen considered rolling a new hero, doing the whole tutorial EXCEPT THE LAST MEETING WITH THE FINAL CONTACT ... and then teamign with a friend's L50 main ... before happily heading off to bash Contaminated skulls?

...

Might that be a workable way to get those badges, without requiring a change in code ...? Or are my fears of "different zone, doesn't count" all too true ...??

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Both can mean a great deal to me. Anyone sporting "Ten Times the Victor" ... well, I've read how tough that badge cab be to get, so, they have my respect for the accomplishment of acquiring it. ^_^


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I've heard about that one. ^_^ One of the ones I've not gotten; unfortunately, Croatoa was introduced after I made level 36; I'm not even sure if there is a *contact* that I can to talk to in that place. I'm waiting for flashback on that one. (On the upside, being 36 made dealing with those Frostlings a lot easier. ^_^)

[/ QUOTE ]
you're in luck - it's gained during Katie Hannon's Task Force. Yes, that's right - during a TF. Meaning, you're auto-exemplared down when you join it. If you can deal with doing a tough TF, and doing some of it in a very careful, specific manner, you too CAN get "Ten Times the Victor".


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Back to my analogy: the World Series is an annual event. Post "being idiots and trading Babe Ruth away", the Red Sox winning the World Series was not an annual event - it was just about a bloody miracle.

Cold Warrior has, so far, become an annually-available badge from "a Winter event". However, Frozen Fury hasn't been brought back,and may never BE brougth back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha, yeah... those Sox. ^_^ *continues to feign understanding of American sports* ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, you're ... what, a Brit? Or an Aussie? Hmm ... *racks brains about british sports* ... liken it to ... Cricket? Yeah, Cricket. Or Soccer, that's big overseas too. ^_^

So anyway; let's say your local team was once among THE teams in the whole sport, until they traded away a player who had begun to age, BUT, had been the STAR of your STAR players, EVER. He levels a supposed curse at hte team, and ...

... suddenly they can't win a championship to save their SOULS. Not just for a couple years, but, for well over half a century. Despite this ... the fans stay rabidly loyal throughout the years, and the team's home games REGULARLY sell out.

Now, at last ... they finally manage win the world prize, period, bar non. THAT is what the REd Sox winning the WS was like. ^_^


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*grin* Any opportunity to brag / show off, even if only via text ... ^_^;;

[/ QUOTE ]

Do I detect a new addition to the Rogue Isles... "The Numismatist"?
(Well, everyone needs a reason for robbing banks.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Banks, schmanks. Museums, that's where THAT action's at ...! ^_^

[ QUOTE ]
As so far as their decisions regarding the awarding of badges... I do think that on a couple of occasions they have shot for numbers that are well... a bit too high. Rikti Monkies, presents, and Snaptooth all come to mind. I think what has caught people's imagination with Isolator is that it is possible for a character to never, ever, even get a stab at it. That always struck me as almost gamplay bug-esque; but then again, they've got a lot to do in Los Gatos, and they know how to use their time there better than I do. ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]
For Isolator - I'd cut it down to, oh ... 20 or 25 Contaminated.

For Toy Collector ... 25 presents, tops. Maybe add on further iterations for the TRULY-obsessed (at 50, 75, and 100, say).

For Event-based badges ... not limit it to logging in, just flag existing characters on active accounts to receive the badge WHENEVER they first log in.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd do that myself, without hesitation, solely because it's a critical component of an accolade - and I firmly believe in "good karma begets good karma". ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]

And proving that; when I did the mission with one of my alts, and got a couple of exemplars onboard; afterwords, they dropped 700,000 influence on my character. I never asked for it, they just wanted something to say thank you. ^_^ Karma!

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, that's the way to go about it - don't ask, but quietly HOPING is kosher.

Also: I've done a "drop everythign and rush to help a stranger", when someone called for help with their capemission in COH; y'see, not the week before, some new SG mates of mine had powered through that mission on their 35's for me (after we suffered a TPK the first time through, on our trio of 20's). Thus ... "pay it forward"; I' gotten a hand-hold through the mission, it was only right to pass the good karma along. ^_^

[ QUOTE ]
(It was bad enough that so few presents actually contained something that wasn't animate snow; but with the long respawn on the things too... I hate to think how horrible it must have been for those that did not find a good 'route' to follow.)

[/ QUOTE ]
My route was soemthing like twenty presents, over in Port Oakes. Some were usually nabbed by other folks making their own runs (or just strolling by), so I only averaged fifteen "tags" per cycle. Took me over an hour, on an alt that NEVER slowed down or stoped - only paused to let the present opening not be interrupted!

And I'm so generous, I posted a description of it on these very forums, once I'd finished runningit myself. ^_^ Maybe someone else has Toy Collector as a result of that; maybe not.

I'll tell you what the WORST thing of Toy Collector was: teamign up didn't do you any good, except make the frostmen more survivable. For a team of five people to get the badge for each of them? ONE THOUSAND PRESENTS, that's what it'd've taken.

I mean, come ON. At least they could've made each present-opening count for EVERYone on the same team, eh?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One of the more common complaints from people on the forums is that simply choosing new powersets is not enough to justify playing through the game. New things to do are needed. The way I see it is that (In my opinion) two important things need to be done:

1) It needs to be impossible to get every single badge on one character.

2) It needs to be impossible to do every single mission with one character. (Or be unable to experience the full scope of the mission if exemplered down/sidekicked up)

What *I* ultimately want to see are branching story arcs, with badges that can't be obtained if you have a different badge.

For example, lets say you have a Contact named... John Jacob Jinglehymer Smith, who asks you to find out what the freaks are up to. The Story arc at some point could branch with a choice. Say, either going to "interrogate" a Freakshow for information, or instead taking a coded message you located to a cryptogropher to decode it.

Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.

In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, the topic of the thread is the Isolator badge. If you have nothing constructive or (as far more typically) destructive to add to a suggestion for Isolator, say nothing. If you have an idea for a totally different issue create your own, seperate topic. The above post doesnt belong here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Puretone, but, you'er out of line with this one.

The post you quoted was in favor of you can't have EVERY badge - nor should you ... it was describing what hte poster thought would be a SUPERIOR setup to the current one ... a setup in which it was even LESS possible to get EVERY badge, because sometimes getting Badge A, would prevent you from getting badge B, and maybe badges C and D as well.

IMO, entirely relevant. Indeed, his suggestion would suit me, with my "limited supply" preferences, quite nicely.

[ QUOTE ]
The point remains, that for some of the playerbase, Isolator is important enough to us that we will jump through any hoop, grind through whatever godawful TF or mish, kill, crush and / or destroy whatever we have to in order to get it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then, there's one series of missions that you can go do (with a new character) that provides the opportunity to achieve that badge. It's called Outbreak.

Y''see, you're saying "we'll do anything" - but the instated subtext is "... except make a new character."

[ QUOTE ]
Those of us that collect badges have proven time and again that we will do whatever is needed to collect a badge.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fine. Roll a new alt, and get it.

[ QUOTE ]
We arent asking for the moon, simply that in some far, dusty niche of Paragon City, some contaminated escape from Outbreak. Heck, as I said before, I'd pay for the privledge.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay - then how about in some OTHER far, dusty niche of Paragon (and/or the Rogue Isles), there be Witches, Ghosts, Zombies, Werewolves, Vampires, and the halloween-specific manifestation of Eochai? Not to mention the jolly ol' Winterlord, of course.

So much for the Halloween badges being anything SPECIAL, eh? And you just know that any mission with a gods-honest WinterLord would get FARMED for the XP-Pinata effect.

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I have to call Shenanigans, after hearing this stated several times. This is the Suggestions and Ideas forum. Nowhere is it categorically called the "Debate Your Ideas" forum. Thus, all you have to do is come out, post an idea, and then leave it; the devs will look at it and decide whether they like it or not. Nowhere is it said that you have to convince a majority of the forum population in order for an idea to be considered 'cool' by Jack and Co.

[/ QUOTE ]
Incorrect, I'm sad to say.

You can suggest whatever you like - but once it gets past hte originating post, the thread becomes a debate ... on the relative merits of that suggestion. At which point, it is beholden upon the pro-change camp to provide that compelling reason.

The "status quo" - IOW, the game as-it-is-now - has the benefit of inertia. If something isn't currently broken, there needs to be a compelling reason to make a change to it, which might subsequently introduce a break into the game.

[ QUOTE ]
People here can say they want Isolator, and the only reason they want it is because their main existed prior to the badge being available; that's justification enough in their eyes. The ones against that concept can say, "No, it's fine the way it is," and that's perfectly justifiable in their eyes. the only failling here is for one side to convince the other, because neither have solid, evidence-supported arguments to sway the opposition.

[/ QUOTE ]
It now falls to convincing the Developers - and I daresay the "leave it alone" angle has presented more compelling reasons not to change Isolator, than the "gimme" camp has presented in their favor.

And I, for one, have given more reason than just "No, it's fine the way it is," thanks. To re-summarise: handing opportunities to get any ONE badge out, cheapens that badge - and should only done if you hand similar opportunities to get ALL limited, no-longer-available badges again. And thus, it cheapens ALL of them. Hallow Spirit, Celebrant, Frozen Fury, you name it.

[ QUOTE ]
Thus, when the devs look at it, both sides are going to be equally balanced on the issue, because neither side has provided any conclusive evidence as to whether the idea is good or bad.

[/ QUOTE ]
Only true if you close your eyes and ears to more than half the thread.

[ QUOTE ]
Claiming that all you have to say is, "Them's the breaks," in order to win an argument when someone calls for change is wholly untrue. It just means you, like them, don't have a convincing argument as to why the change should not occur.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, all I have to say is "the current state is not broken, and I see no compellign reason to institute a change. Give me one, and maybe I'll accept you are correct". I have said more than that, however, and the balance is IMO strongly in favor of "tough luck".

... at least one person here plays a NEcromancy Mastermind, that's why ...

^_^;;

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, consider this: do you really think that anyone who made their character pre-I2, and who is not currently playing, would come back ... just to get the Isolator badge ...?

Conversely, do you honestly believe that those pre-I2 players who are still here, will suddenly up and leave en mass simply because the policy of not ret-conning the Isolator badge in for them does not change ...?

I'd say the answer to both questions, in the majority of both cases, would be a firm and clear NO.

[/ QUOTE ]

The same arguement could be said the other way around. Does granting a way to get Isolator for those that want to impact anyone elses gameplay?

[/ QUOTE ]
Except you fail to realise something: saying "please add ____" is a positive assertation. And when you (speaking in the non-specific sense) make a positive assertation, the burden is upon you to "prove" it, support it, or provide sufficient causative reason for it.

IOW: "he who wishes to change the status quo, must be the one to prove that it SHOULD be changed".

Until that compelling, "it must be done" reasoning is proferred ... all the "no, leave it as-is" people have to say, is: it isn't broken, so leave it as it is.

[ QUOTE ]
Think of a heated argument you once had with someone; I'm sure the more time you had to think about it, the more reasons you could come up with as to why you were in the right... right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sometimes, yes.

Other times, I realise that I was being an [censored], and owe the pther person(s) an apology or three.

And sometimes I'm not sure, and need to go to someone else, explain the situation, and ask them what they think of the situation.

[ QUOTE ]
1. I am a perfectionist, and in turn a completist. I want to collect all possible badges, for the sake of having all possible badges.

[/ QUOTE ]
And taken to too great of an extreme, that can devolve into a pathology - specifically, OCD ("obsessive-compulsive disorder").

[ QUOTE ]
2. I am greatly opposed to the idea of any content, within a game, being made permanently unavailable. (Except, obviously, once the game is 'complete', i.e. everything there is to do, is done - as games are humanly finite. Furthermore, 'finite' is perhaps not the best term to throw around so far as an MMORPG is concerned, but certainly, as I'm sure the clamouring end-game content-crowd will happily tell you - sometimes it is possible to do almost all of everything. ^_^)

[/ QUOTE ]
Whereas I am opposed to any scheme that says "here, here's everything in the game - you get ALL of it, regardless of what choices you make." I'd rather one's choices had an impact on how the game plays out for you, and on what you "have" at the end of it all.

I'd also like the results of each choice to be reasonably balanced against each other, so that no one choice was inherently "better" than another, of course. The developers having decided that limited-opportunity badges - includingIsolator - will never be prerequisites for full Accolades, shows that they share the same value as I hold, on that front at least.


[ QUOTE ]
(I think your comparison to a coin mint / market situation was quite succint on this point. ^_^)

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks; I was rather pleased with thinking that one up, myself. ^_^

[ QUOTE ]
Essentially, what I hope for is more of a directly-logical discussion on the pros and cons of the solutions being thrown about, in terms of some established goals - such as, would such a solution make more players more satisfied with the game, or less? Would such solutions increase the game revenues, or decrease subscription durations? Is it going to ultimately lead to better numbers for Cryptic and a happier population of people can go back and get their character a badge... or if they reroll an alt and get it with them instead?

This, I think, is what really needs to be talked about. ^___^

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, consider this: do you really think that anyone who made their character pre-I2, and who is not currently playing, would come back ... just to get the Isolator badge ...?

Conversely, do you honestly believe that those pre-I2 players who are still here, will suddenly up and leave en mass simply because the policy of not ret-conning the Isolator badge in for them does not change ...?

I'd say the answer to both questions, in the majority of both cases, would be a firm and clear NO.

[ QUOTE ]

Hahaha, no, I totally understand! ^_^ I was on 56k too for the longest time, and it was through NetZero too.

[/ QUOTE ]
Could be worse; you could've been on AOL. I was. O_o

[ QUOTE ]
But I also think this particular line of thinking came about because I saw 'special' as to mean 'requiring a great feat to acquire', whereas I can see now that you use the term more to describe a limited supply situation. ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]
Both can meana great deal tome. Anyone sporting "Ten Times the Victor" ... well, I've read how tough that badge cab be to get, so, they have my respect for the accomplishment of acquiring it. ^_^

[ QUOTE ]

I think where we diverge here is that I don't see a "Winter Lord Event", so much as an "Xmas Event". Does that make any sense? That essentially, in my eyes, the Winter Lord is as intrinsic and annual (in Paragon) as Christmas trees and candy canes.

[/ QUOTE ]
But it's not.

Back to my analogy: the World Series is an annual event. Post "being idiots and trading Babe Ruth away", the Red Sox winning theWorld Series was not an annual event - it was just about a bloody miracle.

Cold Warrior has, so far, become an annually-available badge from "a Winter event". However, Frozen Fury hasn't been brought back,and may never BE brougth back.

[ QUOTE ]
Similarly, I was rather surprised that they did not bring back the Winter Lord this year (which adds some credence to your view of you things, so far as they are in line with the Dev team, mayhaps) - but this may have also been driven by the "Winter Lord XP Farming Frenzy Bonanza" incident.

[/ QUOTE ]
Quite possibly. Maybenext year we'll see a more-sanely-implemented Winter Lord, and Frozen Fury will again become available on an annual basis. The fact that it would still be somewhat limited (people who didn't EVER play during the Winter Events would still not be able to get the badges - say, a HS student not allowed to play COH/V during the school year?) would retain some of it's ... well, call it "nifty-ness". But yes, some of that "nifty-ness" would fade, because it would o longer be impossible for new iterations of that badge to be handed out.

(Honestly, I could wish for the Year-of-award tobe included in any badges that return year after year - because then, maybe you'd have "Cold Warrior '04", "Cold Warrior '05", "Cold Warrior '06", "Cold Warrior '07", "Cold Warrior '08", and so on .... all on the same insanely-long-lived character! How's THAT for braggin' rights, eh? ^_^ )

[ QUOTE ]
At this point, it seems to me that the question is more on of "Should we have Celebrant (1) / Celebrant (2) / Celebrant (3) set of badges?" versus "Should we have a (generic) Celebrant badge?"

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd rather see them numbered, myself. For reasons I believe you have managed to "grok" by now. ^_^ (Besides, that'd just mean that the old-timers couldhave many extra badges ... heh!)

[ QUOTE ]
As for the baseball analogy... I'm sorry, I really don't know that much about baseball or the World Series! ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]
To be honest - neither do I. But you don't gorw up in or near Boston, and not come to understand some, at least, of the Red Sox plight.

In a nutshell: In the ... mid-40's, I think ... the Red Sox traded away one of the great legends of Baseball, Babe Ruth, to the Yankees. He allegedly laid a curse on the 'Sox ... and ever since, despite havign once been a phenomenally successful club, was unable to win a World Series. I think they weren't even able to get INTO the Series most, if not every, year.

Red Sox fans nonetheless continued to loyally support the team; they became known for their dogged, determined loyalty to "the team that couldn't win".

So I think now you can begin to imagine what a huge deal it was to, AT LAST, see the Red Sox win the World Series. Even non-sports-fans like myself were thrilled by that occasion!

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
That is what event-limited badges are like, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definately getting you now. ^_^ Like you said, once you've missed the bus, you've missed the bloody bus. By way of comparison... I agree, but I feel that if you wait for a while, another bus comes along. ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]
Right - but it's a different buss. Jet-Setter, Toy Collector, Handsome; not Hallow Spirit, nor Malleus.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the example of numismatism did help me understand; thank you for raising it.

[/ QUOTE ]
*grin* Any opportunity to brag / show off, even if only via text ... ^_^;;

[ QUOTE ]
Hahaha, yeah! I'm beginning to think they should have a badge for Regenners, "I Live For The Bat".

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL. Or maybe "Nerf Me" (think "Kick Me" signs taped to their backs).

[ QUOTE ]
In my mind, I would rather have seen the badge awarded to characters automatically via a data-mining operation; or even have it set so that any character from an account with a suitably-veteran creation date receives the badge the moment they log on.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or better, they could have just awarded it to every character in the game at that time. I agree that the developers' decisions relating to when, where, and how to award particualr badges has not always been perfect - but then, they (like we) are merely human.

[ QUOTE ]
[...] or offering the infamous fortune teller mission to as many people as possible with no concern of monetary reward.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd do that myself, without hesitation, solely because it's a critical component of an accolade - and I firmly believe in "good karma begets good karma". ^_^

[ QUOTE ]
Except, of course, there were three badges - I'd missed out on Toy Collector, because the information on it was a tad scarce. I only found out about it towards the end of the event, and promptly went to work opening the necessary two hundred presents (which, personally, I thought was something of a silly amount.) It took me just under two hours. And I simply didn't have time to do it with my alts too... so for the first time ever, I missed out on a badge with them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I had the time ... but was strongly disinclined to BOTHER. The only character I have with Toy Collector is Xaotic, my Nin/Nin Stalker. And he only has it due to thehappy combination of a Jet-pack for rapid transit (he was level 8 at the time),and HIDE ... swoop in, invisibly grab the present whileignoring the frosties, swoop out. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Fifty presents would have been MORE than sufficient, IMO. Perhaps even somewhat less (thirty?) ...

[ QUOTE ]
My own personal take - and this really is just me - I absolutely LOATH all limited-opportunity items within games. Now, potentially that's opening a can of worms (I can already see people lining up to say "Well, that's the way life is" and so on) but my take on the matter goes something like this:

Games have a replay factor. A popular method for increasing the reply factor is introducing a system whereby the player expands additional effort essentially doing more than is necessary to progress through the game. For instance, you can try and collect all known Materia in FFVIII, or find all one hundred and twenty Stars in Mario 64.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but MMOs differ from thigns like Super Mario in this way: new content is always being added. There's always another event to look forward to (or to be surprised with, like the Valentines Day event kinda did - no advanced fanfare, just "oh by the way - have fun, guys!").

I think that enhances replay value. Sure, your first Hero didn't get isolator, and DID get lots of the Halloween badges. That was then, this is now - your NEXT hero can get Isolator, and won't gtthe Haloween badges. Already, right there, wihtout looking at Origin, Power Sets, choices WRT TFs and the like ... your experience with the game will be different.


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, that would cheapen the Celebrant badge. I would like to see a COV equivalent to the Celebrant badge, though - next haloween, of course. And maybe "Celebrant (2)", "Celebrant (3)", and so on could be doable.

But people who were in Paragon City during the month of the anniversary? That's something special, the badge is a memento of that ... and IMO, it would cheapen the badge and the event if it were ever made possible to get it "again".

IMO, what it boils down to is this: if you missed the bus, you missed the bloody bus.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's certainly an idea I find interesting. I'm having trouble really exorcising my thoughts into words here; but my take on the Celebrant badge is that frankly, it's not all that special. (Mind you, this is a thought dedicated just to Celebrant here.) Now, I can't remember the specifics of the award requirements; but I think it was something as simple as "Be here during the month of celebration".

[/ QUOTE ]
As I recall, from reading about the badge:log the character in during that month, and get the badge. It's a point of "yeah, I've been playing this character for a loooong time"; a '50 with Celebrant impresses me slightly more than a '50 wihtout that badge. The "With" is obviously an old hand, who's been playing COH for quite a while now.

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, it just seems difficult to cheapen something that was given away freely and took very little effort to earn. "Log in, get badge". But also - and this is where my words become a little muddled - the award, celebrating a year of City of Heroes... it wasn't for those that were here since the start. Or those that came in after a few months. Or half a year. It was for everyone, regardless, providing they logged in at the right time. It just doesn't seem that special, you know? (Like I said, muddled... I might just sound like an idiot at this point.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but you see ... I don't have that badge. Never will, either. I wasn't part of COH back then ... I didn't even have a computer that could THINK of running COH at the time, and as for ISP ... lol ... I was still on 56.6 dialup (at best), right up until this past september.

[ QUOTE ]
If I can draw an analogy here - see, there's this McDonald's, right?... Actually, on second thoughts, let's try something different. I personally see the Celebrant badge as something akin to Mardi Gras beads. Big celebration, once a year, you get your beads. You take them home and treasure them, even though everyone has them and they are practically being given away. Next year, you go to New Orleans again, it's Mardi Gras... wait, what's this? MORE BEADS? But my beads here are special! These people weren't here last year, how come they get some?!

[/ QUOTE ]
But those beads aren't specific to the year in which you went to Mardi gras. And Mardi Gras is every year, not "once and once only".

So a better analogy, IMO, would be ...oh, heck, how about (since I'm Boston born and bred) your tickets to the World Series, proving you were there when the Sox finally won the darned thing again.

Or, a truly more direct parallel - in themilitary, being part of a military operation in a specific theater, during a specific span of time, gets you a service ribbon for that place/time/etc. The only folks sporting service ribbons for Desert Storm are the guys who were THERE - even if they were "only" supply clerks sitting a hundred miles or mroe behind the lines. Doesn't matter if you were a 20+ year career soldier, or a wet-behind-the-ears kid fresh from basic training ... if you were playing in that particular sandbox, you get the ribbon for it. They were there, "on the day" if you will, and that's all it takes.

Guys that retired three months before then, or who weren't deployed to Kuwait? No service ribbon. Doesn't matter if they're bloody Generals with more political connections than you could shake a stick at ... no service ribbon. They just weren't there at the time.

That is what event-limited badges are like, IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
Barring that particular obsticle, what I would like to see is a comparison of those that would like to be able to collect these 'missed opportunity' badges, versus those that feel that option should not be made available, as it cheapens their own efforts.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I'm opposed to "missed opportunity" schemes not because it cheapens my efforts - but because it might cheapen your efforts, and that would intrinsicly make collecting badges less special to me.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's just not right to reverse course and open those limited access badges to anyone and everyone who gets lucky with the right mission. It cheats the people who got them by "legit" means, rather than as a pity-party for folks who missed it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm certainly not trying to be judgemental here, I try to be understanding. But I am having trouble getting my head around feeling so strongly about locking out a particular percentage of the player population... If I understand you correctly - and I hope I do, please point me right otherwise - but you see a kind of... well, 'elite' status associated with the badges? (I'm not using the word 'elite' here as an insult, although I know it can carry negative connotations... I just can't think of a better word right now.)

[/ QUOTE ]
"Elite" is perhaps a bit strong of a word, but ... I'd say I see a certain value in the very fact that some badges ARE in limited supply.

PErhaps it will help you to understand this, if I point out that in my youth, I was an avid (if horribly naieve and amateur) numismatist. Er, that means "coin collector". I still have a few of my early prizes,too ... hung onto because of their relative scarcity, and/or the interesting historical relevance some have.

For example - I have an extremely poor-condition coin, a copper disk about an inch-and-a-quarter across; it's an 18th century British copper penny. It's been physically abused (not by me, mind), and looks like it was hit in the middle with something - hit quite hard, because there's a sizeable dent (the fanciful side of me wants to say "maybe it was shot by something", heh). All told - it's just a dented disk of dark brown-black copper. The bit that makes it so special?

The date is "1_96", with either a 7 or 9 in the "_" spot; it's so worn down there, it's very difficult to see. I can tell you, though, that it is definitely a "7" there - because the name on the coin ...? George III. Yeah, the very guy the U.S. rebelled against. Kinda neat to have found that coin, here in America, nearly two hundred years later (at the time I found it tucked away in an old box from a flea market, anyway).

Of course, it's "just" a silly bit of copper, worn almost to unrecognisability, badly dented, and bearing the discolering patina of centuries of neglect and abuse.

I also have some paper currency, oneof which I particularly like;it's Austrian, from sometime around 1930 or 1940 - yep, it's worth precisely diddly as money, 'cause it's in Reichsmarks.

All 500,000 of them.

I like it 'cause it's a paper note with a face value of "one half million", PLUS, it has mild historical significance. In reality, of course, it's justone of many tens of thousands of identical piees of equally-devalued paper. (Inflation being what it was, I'd be surprised if that note would have bought more than a half a loaf of bread, at the time. If that much.)

...

But those two things, still consider to be special. There aren't that many objects of their nature in the world, and I - little insignificant unimportant me - happen to have them. That's incredibly cool.

I view "event limited" badges much the same way. It's like collectible coins ... if you mint more, they stop being worth as much. The value comes from their being in limited supply.

[ QUOTE ]
Inversely, if I see someone with an entire seven badges, one of which is the Celebrant... the last thing that's going to pop into my head is "Whoah, they've got 'Celebrant'! I had heard of this thing, but I never thought I would actually get to see one... this must be a mighty hero indeed! I must team with them!"

[/ QUOTE ]
You misunderstand how I respect someone with, for continued example, "Celebrant". I don't assume they're any god at the game ... but I become cognisant of the fact that they've seen thegame grow and develop for far longer than I have. (Or if you prefer, they have weathered more Nerf-Storms than I have. ^_^)

[ QUOTE ]
As a final note, you know what I find weird? I've got most of the badges in question (bar my two alts, I simply didn't have time to pick up Toy Collector or Toothbreaker with them)... and I'm arguing that the badge system should be opened up to be available for all. ^_^ Inversely, you state that you have few of the badges but do not want them becoming available. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, I just find it funny that in this particular discussion, we are each advocating a position that is of no direct importance to our own relative situation. ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say this shows something:
[*] you have the badges, and so, they're nothing special to you. Thus, you don't see any risk of a loss of value inherent in eVERYone having them.
[*] I don't have the badges, and thus see them as something special - thus, I immediately become concerned that allowing "cheap knockoffs" to flood the market would cheapen the badges themselves.

[ QUOTE ]
[edit] - The problem is Isolator doesnt fit into special event category of badges in any case. Special event badges are available to anyone present at the time they are implemented no matter the level. Isolator is the only non-PvP badge not attainable after 'outleveling' it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. There's also "Jail Bird", the COV Tutorial-only badge.

[ QUOTE ]
Isolator doesn't do anything except give a badge, if it has no effect on gameplay and doesn't affect you. why would you even care to disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]
Principle.

Seriously - once again, if YOU get to go and acquire a badge that YOU missed out on because of time/date issues ... why shouldn't I be able to do the same thing? Celebrant, Hallow Spirit, Frozen Fury, and similar.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And Celebrant? What about that? Besides, I think that wuld seriously cheapen the badge for folks that DID earn them.

That goes for current stuff, too; I didn't feel up to getting the badge for killing Snaptooth five times (ugh, FIVE times on EACH character, BLECCH). But it's certainly a point of pride for those that DID stick it out and off him the requisite quintet of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

[...]

As for the Celebrant badge? I don't know... it's a tricky one. Perhaps it should remain uniquely available for those present during the first anniversary of CoH?

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, now that you've suggested that Celebrant should be allowed only for those that were "there at the right time" ... let me ask you: what is it about Celebrant that makes it more deserving of "I was in the right place at the right time and did the right thing(s)" than Isolator ... or Jet-setter ... or Hallow Spirit ... or any other opportunity-limited badge?

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps it should be available to everyone, once a year, on the anniversary?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, that would cheapen the Celebrant badge. I would like to see a COV equivalent to the Celebrant badge, though - next haloween, of course. And maybe "Celebrant (2)", "Celebrant (3)", and so on could be doable.

But people who were in Paragon City during the month of the anniversary? That's something special, the badge is a memento of that ... and IMO, it would cheapen the badge and the event if it were ever made possible to get it "again".

IMO, what it boils down to is this: if you missed the bus, you missed the bloody bus.

[ QUOTE ]
Certainly, we find ourselves in the unique mire of those that care for the effort they put in, versus those that do not. I cannot speak for the former, as I am not party to their company. But personally, if tomorrow a new portal mission turns up - one filled with Snow Beasts and Ghosts and Contaminated and Vampires - I say, kudos to those that get the badges. I do not subscribe to a premise of exclusivity for the elite. Badges for all, I say. ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]
And I say, the value of the relevant badges will be destroyed; I will no longer hold automatic respect for the owners of such badges. And I would plain refuse to take part in such a mission, because I wouldn't wnat to be party to devaluing someone else's rightly-won symbol of achievement and/or luck.

It's just not right to reverse course and open those limited access badges to anyone and everyone who gets lucky with the right mission. It cheats the people who got them by "legit" means, rather than as a pity-party for folks who missed it.

And keep in mind, I am one of hte folks who missed that bus - MOST of them in fact. And I'm still vehemently opposed to allowing them to be earned "after the fact". Cold Warrior was a neat fillip, a chance to re-earn a prior event badge - BUT, now it's "took part in either winter event", not "happened to get the Winter-Lord mission". And you still had to be here for the FIRST Winter Event to be able to pop an XP-Pinata and get Frozen Fury; anyoen with that still has bragging rights.

I got toy Collecter on precisely ONE of my alts - my Stalker, 'cause I could stealth the presents and ignore the frosties. He's also got Jail Bird, thank god - but I missed getting Handsome and Toothbreaker (silly me forgot to log that alt in). Yeah, I'm disappointed, but ... I wouldn't want a chance to go back and get those badges. Why? Because it would cheapen the accomplishment of others who got it at the RIGHT time.

Even if the new prize was all of fifty dollars, or heck five dollars - prior winners wouldhave NO right to insist on having a payment made to THEM, too.

Good analogy, LiquidX.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isolator is the only badge that you can not get no matter what you do, if you didn't get it before leaving the tutorial.

EVERY other non-Event badge can be picked up - it might just entail malefactoring down and teaming with someone much lower than you are, in order to get some of the story-based badges.

[/ QUOTE ]

And thats exactly everyone's point, what makes Isolator more special then any f the other 300+ badges out there?

Nothing, so we all should have the chance to go back and get this badge as all of the other badges in this game.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then, what's so special about, say .... Hallow Spirit, compared to "the other 300+ badges" ...? Why can't I get THAT badge any time I want, hmm?

Isolator is the only badge that you can not get no matter what you do, if you didn't get it before leaving the tutorial.

EVERY other non-Event badge can be picked up - it might just entail malefactoring down and teaming with someone much lower than you are, in order to get some of the story-based badges.