Orochi

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Except scrappers aren't actually faster than all of their foes, unless they use yet another exploit - using travel powers in combat.

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What about sprint, hurdle and swift? So far the only enemies with fravel powers are those with fly, and hover 6-slotted can be plenty fast, and all scrapper primaries have a ranged ST taunt power.

from what I've seen in the arena, targeting is based on who squishes the easiest.

I hope you at least checked the "read receipt" for Statesman, he takes alot of PMs, but he rarely responds, he does at least read them though.

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Obviously, the simple solution is to give blasters a 500% damage cap.

Do you want a solution, or do you want to complain about how unfair it is that scrappers killed your puppy with laser beam eyes?

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Duskking can't just give us the 500% damage cap himself, he's stating his argument, don't belittle him for not being able to do more then complain.

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You read me wrong there. I was already taking Build Up into account for the damage cap for every blaster (that uses all six slots for damage, again, not everyone has Tactics or Targetting Drone and generally uses at least one +ACC). Energy is the only set that has Boost Range. And as for Defender/Controller buffs, there are only those three: Fortitude, Accelerate Metabolism, and Siphon Power. So again, you're left with only six situations where the damage cap is breachable, most of which come at higher levels and half of which depend on having that def/troll in your team.

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Boost range does nothing to improve damage, using that as an argument for why should not get a higher damage cap is laughable at best.

Bingo, and they get eye lasers, are we officially the only AT without Eye lasers yet, or do Controllers still not have them?

Though my interest in this subject is wanning like my current interest in the game (lag concerns and my god Guild Wars did Story missions right, the one in the Northern wall where you have to run for your life at the end is just insanely cool)

Shouldn't the devs be doing those tests, why hasn't statesman provided evidence for us that we take less damage at range then scrappers do in melee? Is he scared of being wrong again? Just look at these threads he and the other devs post, they open it, then look at it without being interactive, I've seen threads where Statesman replied multiple times, yet there are threads like these where he insults the player base then runs off to La-La Land, RI and hopes we go away.

I know Cuppa says they read these things and I know that it hurts their feelings when they read us dogging on them, but do they realise that it does the same to us when we feel ignored, and even worse when our year of playing and taking intimate knowledge of our power sets are simply assumptions on something being horribly imbalanced and just plain broken. I don't think that cuts it all, Statesman or whatever dev has tunnel visioned on Scrappers and Tankers and totally forgot the rest of us even exsist.

the problem with your reasoning Nova is that with a 250% cap, even if that was the same damage wise as our 400% cap, means that if we can hit it with straight enhancers, teaming would be even less of an option, as we couldn't get use out of defenders or controllers, and Build Up and Aim would be worthless if we could just two slot all our powers for ACC. And of coarse this would actually make /fire the worst blaster set, period, with Build up no longer needed and Consume not needed because you can spare a spot for end reducers.

I don't think that the devs can give us a self buff cap and a separate other people's buff cap either.

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When I was thinking about range, this was the obvious first thought. The problem with it is that a simple -acc on all ranged attacks effectively gives everyone ranged defense, not just blasters. The problem with that is that when it comes time for balancing, guess what's going to happen when the devs realize scrappers aren't taking enough ranged damage. Ranged damage will go up, or villains will start getting accuracy bonuses.

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At this point, Scrappers are mini-gods of death and destruction as it is, might as well just give them something if it benefits us more.

As it stands this will change nothing really for them but the run up is less harsh, and it was pretty mild as it is anyway, at some point the devs will actually go "oh look, Scrappers are just safer then blasters, period." and give us the 500% damage cap, or lower Scrapper's damage cap to 400.

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The "roles" question is best addressed by Statesman - AFAIK scrappers dmg > Tanks. Tanks def/res > Scraps. Blasters = dmg via range. These are gross generalities.

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What really is the point of ranged damage if it's not the best damage, especially if it's give with zero defences? Shouldn't the scale for tankers and scrappers look like:

Damage: Blaster > Scrapper > Tanker
Defence: Tanker > Scrapper > Blaster

Other wise what really is the point of a blaster? (It's not AoE, as three sets have poor AoE or AoE that doesn't mesh with teaming well) If we have no defences, we can't tank; if we aren't the best damage then why not drop us for the best damage; and we don't really bring any utility to the team.

As it stands currently, the only reason to make a blaster is fluff wise, and if you're not RPing then that reason isn't there. I'm getting tired of reading through posts about how if blasters were "offencive Juggernauts" (like they should be) then scrappers wouldn't have a role on the team, well bugger to that, if you didn't look at the manual where it stated: "In team ups they are useful as front rank fighters, but often find themselves a bit overshadowed by the more specialized Blasters and Tankers." and just choose to ignore that comment, then you shouldn't be rewarded with pushing blasters out of their place on a team because your reading comprehension is sub par at best.

Can you just smack stateman with a rolled up newspaper until he gets the point that we are not at less risk then scrappers (they have defences to deal with where they are, that has been PROVEN), and that we should be the "Offencive Juggernauts," of the game.

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I can only extrapolate from playing my Kheldian in nova form.

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Nova Form is much better and easier to line up then a blaster AoE, speaking as a Fire Blaster that had a Nova for Kheld, my Fire Blaster had to be much closer, and had (especially in the early levels) less manuverability then the Kheld. The Kheld AoEs are generally wider and farther reaching then Blaster ones, which means, even though they have more manuverability, they don't need to use it.

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lol...I tell that to MA players all the time. I hate DT too. I have to tell them to wait until I hit Soul Drain before they go knocking fools around. No fan of Crane Kick either. In fact, MA is the one scrapper set i enjoy teaming with the least.

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Dragon's tail is a knock up, it won't knock things out of soul drain, and Crane kick is single target, which won't screw up a soul drain either.

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ET should trigger an "Accept" button for everyone on the team. It doesn't fire unless everyone agrees it should fire. God I hate that power.

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Just singling this out, spite much?

This is another thing Blasters have to deal with scrappers don't, when was the last time someone told your scrapper, "hey you can't use X power," I can assure you, even if you say, alot, it's no more then that same person just told a blaster the same thing.

I'll agree to this, but only if I get an accept button on your status protection.

actually, even in teams, unless dogged by the members of the "I love energy torrent," club, my scrappers rarely have to possition much in teams, if the target I'm working on goes flying away, I'm generally standing next to the tank, so I just tab to the next guy near me.

With my blaster, on a team, I need to wait for the tank to possition, then I hase to possition for AoEs, then move toward the defender's blanket of healing/PBAoE buffing, then repossition for AoE, or to check for a target then needs some extra lovin' then move in to hit with blaze, then back to the defender, then repossition again for AoEs (assuming everything isn't dead)

Solo it's even worse, with the scrapper I just sit in the middle of a huddle of guys, with the blaster, it's breath/ball then move for blaze on an LT/survivor.

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Agreed.

We should try NEVER to change a power because of PvP alone (BTW, this is what I've always promised). The changes now aren't solely because of PvP - there's signifcant PvE issues, too.

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Like what, my blasters have to watch their butts even more now, so I can feel less like a Superhero?

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The other factor which is just as much to blame based on my experience is that many blasters, if not most blasters, dont' have the foggiest notion of how to modify their playstyle.

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Define modify our playstyle? do you mean from team to solo, or like when something dramatically shifts our abilities around.

Cause I can tell you my playstyle on each of my characters are quite different, I play me scrappers differently from my blasters, from my tankers, from my controllers, from my defenders, from my Khelds, and even in those I change my style based on power selections, my three main scrappers play differently from each other, my two tanks differently, my many blasters are different, etc, even teaming with different teams is another playstyle.

The thing you have to consider is, why are blasters about the only AT that has to so dramatically change their playstle for every different teammate, build and enemy they face, but most other ATs can (some exceptions, like Khelds and voids) just jump into the middle of stuff, mess it up and bound away with only one or two groups altering their playstyle?

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Go play a claws/regen and get back to me. A class like BS/Inv is a comparative calk walk...

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I don't have a BS/Inv, I have a Claws/SR, MA/Inv and Spines/Regen

It is very debatable if SR or Claws is worse in the pre-28 stage, from my personal experiences with the above two, the SR far FAR harder to level then the Spines/Regen.

Maybe it was because I actually slotted and used Reconstruction and Dull pain, or something, but my regen did not die from 12 to 21 (and possible before that, I got to 12 then stopped playing for awhile), and the only reason I died in the 20s was because of bad team.

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However since a blaster cannot stay at range indefinately due to the rooting nature of his attacks you cannot assume that blasters will not be in the same position that scrappers are.

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Huh? Rooting makes you fight in melee? That's the exact opposite of what rooting does. You root the guy and then back away, ta-da you're at range and he can't get closer.

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He means we get rooted when we attack, because of animation times.

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He can two-shot white-con minions only with his best attacks. Maybe yellow-con minions if they aren't smashing resistant and his enhancements are ++'d out. It's not like he can do it with Thunder Kick and Storm Kick. Not without a crit. This is a Crane Kick/Storm Kick/Eagle's Claw duo, similar to using Power Burst and Power Blast back to back. But, yeah, scrappers can definitely two-shot regular minions. Most all damage-dealers can. My EM tanker can one-shot a red-con under the right conditions (Build-Up, Energy Transfer, damage-vulnerable mob).

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He didn't specify that I had to two shot with Thunder Kick and Storm, or just Two shot, so yes, I can two shot a minion as a scrapper.

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More importantly, the only reason he can one shot an orange-con Fungi is because he critted with Eagle's Claw that has a Lethal Damage crit which Fungi are highly vulnerable to. If you were to watch him fight that thing with his other smashing attacks, which those are very resistant to, you'd probably feel sorry for him.

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It's still half smashing, and I've one shotted orange Nemi minions with it too. Stop trying to act like a total [censored] for a couple seconds and go play an MA scrapper at high levels.

And why would he fell sorry for my scrapper when fighting Fungi, I may take a while, but it's not like they're going to kill me in any time soon. As compaired to a blaster, where two fungi can pose a serious challenge.

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Don't let him get you down. He's exaggerating and leaving info out.
All Orochi is doing is puposefully inflating his information to make it sound like scrappers are massively better than they really are. Crits typically only occur 1 out of every 20 hits (1 in 6.67 for Eagles' Claw, our slow-recharging heavy-hitter attack). Don't get mystified whenever a scrapper says, "I can one-shot God with a crit!" That typically means, "Holy crap, I got really lucky and it would take X more tries to do that again!" :P

Like I said, don't let him upset you. He's trying to do it on purpose.

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What info did I leave out or exaggerate? I said I "one shotted an orange Fungi minion with an Eagle's claws crit", it's not like I said something like "I one shotted God!" Would you like Slots, it's one ACC/five damage, my secondary is Invince.

He asked if I could two shot a minion, he used a white minions as an example along with saying his highest damaging attacks, I said yes I can two shot a white minion without crits, and if I use my highest damaging attacks or not is irrelevent, and you're also a fool if you think that I'm going to use my weakest attacks when he uses his strongest.

Here's what he said:

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As a blaster, I can one shot a white con minion with my snipe, most of the time. Any minion I can one shot with snipe, I can two shot with my other heavy hitting powers. A scrapper (without a crit) can not two shot a minion.

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i looked at your suggestions for blasters on the other thread and I found them borderline ridiculous. You uniformely want everything imporved without a single concession in power. Melee attacks that work at 20ft...hahahahaha.

That reads like someone who is out of touch with reality and only cares about making Blasters beyond uber.

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ZOMG, we'll be soloing AVs, no one ca... oh no wait, people do solo AVs, in fact every AT but Blasters solo AVs.

Ridiculous isn't asking for what Concern has suggested. ridiculous is asking to two shot AVs, which will be about the only thing that would balance us currently against the ability of other ATs.

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When a red name comes on and says that we ran 100 team missions for 20 different lvl ranges and all 6 blaster primaries got outdamaged everytime, then come back to me. Until then it is propoganda. My blaster kills so much friggin faster than my scrapper at the same lvl, it's not even funny. In PvP, I can survive alphas from Scrappers. I've been totally worked by Energy and AR blasters in PvP. Their ability to keep hitting me while I run is incredibily effective. Go check the kills of blasters in PvP. They flat dominate every other AT, i'm talking double-digit domination.

The issue which I think does deserve some exploration is the ability to deliver that damage on teams is largely dependent on your teammates. If Tankers don't tank, which many of them don't, and defenders/controllers won't heal, which some seem to think is antithetical, they hamstring blasters. I've gotten my defender killed using Psychic Scream with no Tanker. With a tanker, my blaster is golden. Without... The fact is that blasters were made to be dependent on AT's doing their AT expected jobs in teams. To the extent that players eschew those roles, it hurts blasters most of all. Watching some defender lining up a snipe while my blasters is getting wailed on is largely perturbing.

There may also be issues with aggro for some sets like Fire. It occurs to me that maybe the DoT of fire my over ride a Taunt delivered after the initial blast. I'd have to test this to be sure. But to be honest I've not had mobs pulled off my Tank by blasters. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying that the devs should look into it and see if it is a matter of circumstances or coding.

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Okay, so when a red name comes and says Blasters aren't soloing 20+ 4+ Minions and LTs, would that make you happy? Or do you want us blasters to start tossing our poor selves into 4+ hazard zone spawns with demo record on?

I think I'm going to use your second paragraph in my anto-offender crusades...

Here's the thing, haven't all the other ATs complained about how they don't want to be dependent on Blasters for their damage, yet here you are spouting how we're dependent on other ATs to do our job. So we blasters are going to be tank mages and everyone will want to be a blaster if we don't want to rely on other ATs for our survivability? That seems off a little, don't you think?

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I'm sick of straight damage being the answer to nearly every problem.

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A) Just singling this phrase out
B) Then give us defence if damage isn't the solution
C) You also have absolutly no idea what makes a scrapper better then a blaster, especially with your comment after this

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Funny, my Ice/El blaster did not die until like lvl 12. Being able to two and three shots a mob and then run is a world of difference when facing groups like the Tsoo and the Vahz. My Claws/Regen died so many friggin times I got disgusted and quit playing him for awhile. But so what? I don't play my blaster and expect it to ber like my scrapper.

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Funny, my blasters get in worse situations then my Scrappers, my scrappers have died far less in the early game then my blaster, it might have something to do with experience, or it might have something to do with knowing when to run because I played a blaster. There are more reasons then just those for why my scrappers live longer then my blaster, could be that some times there are more then one statusing mob, and status protection solves that. The massive boost in defence over my blasters even un-slotted might have something to do with that too though.

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Nope. He's using the melee-ers as the benchmark for how the game should be played and balancing the MOBs against them. He wants them to be balanced against the MOBs. Once that's done he will bring us squishies to the same levels. It makes some amount of sense ESPECIALLY if he feels the melee-ers are currrently overpowered.

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No, no it doesn't, if he's balancing the way you're saying, then he's going to re-enact the +bosses before we're ready, and put the squisies back into the one shot hell hole we were come I3 (I think).

Something to consider, if we aren't the Kings of damage (the whole reason I wanted to be a blaster, to output insane amounts of damage that dwarf the other ATs, period. If I find out now that another AT does more damage then I do that means not only did I make an uninformed choice, but I was lied to by every description the devs put out on the blaster AT until now) then what is our role on a team?

We barely contribute other effects, yeah, "fear my single target holds! oh, the controller has that... SG, debu... Defender... Dam... Scrappers... Well maybe I can tank? I draw alot of aggro! ::a stern lecture from the defender later:: Sigh... I'm just going to sit back here guys, need any inspirations?"

Being able to "select targets better" is bull when everything is grouped around the tank, which means the scrapper and tank have about the same ease of selecting a target, and Defenders and Controllers don't seem to have that problem either.

We have no defence other then the /dev line (and that's barely anything), as compaired to 95% Resists, massive Regeneration, insane defence, Debuffing mobs to mewling kittens and AoE status effects and pets seem damn safe to me, safer then "range," which, oh yeah, ALL MOBS IN THE GAME HAVE SOME FORM OF.

As soon as the devs yank their heads out of their behinds and realize that the people in this game are looking for the most damage, and don't care if it's ranged or not. In almost every team I've been in, if the blaster goes down it's a minor inconvience, the tank, defender and controller go down and it's pull out time, hell they don't even bother rezzing until the battle is done in most cases (I've seen it from both sides, as the blaster and as the other ATs.)

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Food for thought:

If Statesman's idea of determining the overall effectiveness of scrapper defenses means using a half of a tray of handpicked inspirations to find their supposed optimal point...

Isn't it likely he's testing blasters the same way?

So, maybe our "perspectives" are all skewed, eh? Looks like we all might be expected to inhale gobs of insps before we fight. :\ I'd seek answers if I were you guys.

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If that was true, then Blasters would just suddenly die about 30 seconds into testing when the lucks ran out, another thing to consider is we don't know which inspirs he used, nor how.

Now along that line, I think states should start throwing Blasters in there using the same "normal player" builds. Hell he should do that for all ATs, it's really show him how little range = defence, and how much more risk a scrapper is at then a blaster.

Of coarse that brings up the whole argument of, he's soloing 20+ 4+s with scrappers, and yet we're less at risk cause we're not in Melee? If State's truely believes that, he's more jaded then Lois Lane.

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Remember all those Council bases? Remember how they have the slots pill boxes from which you can fire into and out of, but cannot use melee? Do you know how many blasters I see use those to their advantage?

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You mean those things that provide limited view and an even more limited damage arc, that have a door that if anything wanted to melee you it would casually stroll though, putting it out of line of sight until it actually got into melee range, at which point you're trapped in the room with it also.

Yeah big advantage...

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Blasters have better final powers in each powerset (Primary and Secondary) than Scraps do. Although I guess some of those perma-MoGers and perma-Unstoppablers might argue with me. But have you guys seen Nova? Wish I could do that with my Scrapper.

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Blizzard, Frozen Aura, Hot Feet and Auto Turret are not better then the scrapper 9th teir powers. And the usefulness of the Nukes (Full Auto is a very nice power, and not including in this meaning of "Nukes") is debatable, it's a horrible DPS attack that leaves you defenceless in the middle of a group, or very close to said group, and assuming anything survives (most I've taken out are red minions) you WILL have the aggro and Alpha strike of anything left standing, and we don't have the extra HP and Autos that Scrappers get, and only two power pools gives us an Auto Resist (which after personal testing I was not a fan of) and one that is unstoppable like, but cannot be made perma.

I personally would prefer a generally more useable power then something that without stamina, conserve Power and/or a cab renders me unable to attack.

That said, Full Auto, Total Focus and Shocking Grasp (I think that's the TF for elec), are very good power.

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As a blaster, I can one shot a white con minion with my snipe, most of the time. Any minion I can one shot with snipe, I can two shot with my other heavy hitting powers. A scrapper (without a crit) can not two shot a minion.

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My MA scrapper can two shot a minion, and with a crit I've one-shotted oranges. And the Oranges I've one shotted are DE Fungi, and MA does not have the most damaging attacks.