Nethergoat

You'll make more than enough inf for pretty much any but the most intentionally outlandish build using this method.

It'll be *slower* than actively marketeering in an efficient manner, in the same way that PLing will get you to 50 faster than running missions, but in both cases the destination is completely achievable by 'regular' means.

I'm completely baffled by this.

Unless by "made" you mean earned from defeats?

Sure you can, because if the amount of inf players generate becomes insufficient to sustain 'inflated' prices, those prices will come down.

I want to sell stuff, not sit on it, and so do the vast majority of sellers.
If Enhancement X stops selling for 50 million but I can still get 20 for it, that's what I'll do.

The market is constantly in flux. Nothing is worth one inf more than what somebody will pay you for it- if you still want 50m when everyone else is pricing theirs 20, what's gonna happen?

Also, high prices are a RESULT of inflated 'real earnings' from punching dudes in the face. 50's out earn everything else by a huge margin and right now EVERYBODY is playing their 50's. If/when that behavior dies down, prices will do likewise.

/edit
Basically, no price on the market is "locked in". If people stop being able to 'afford' 500k for a level 30 generic recharge, they'll stop paying that and the price will drop. Ditto for everything else in the game.

my fire blaster ate some reds and put him down with a direct frontal assault.

Key point.

I don't understand the mindset that thinks "fun" requires some kind of uber-build.

I have fun *whichever* of my characters I play, from my tremendously expensive fire/rad controller to my mid-level fire tank to my generic IO'ed grav/TA controller or kin/dark defender. Or even my lowbie dp/ice corrupter, who's slotted with whatever drops I get running missions.

I make enough inf to do whatever I want, but I've found more enjoyment setting my inf on fire than using it to kit out my stable of regular characters.

YMMV, of course, but the point is the game provides many different roads to the destination of "fun" and you can explore nearly all of them on SOs or SO equivalents.

If you mean 'don't interact with the market at all', then there would be a fairly serious discrepancy.

But you can make a vault full of inf not using the market at all other than as a place to dump your junk. Assuming a very minimal level of 'reward seeking' behavior (some TFs, filling up your tip bar every so often, maybe a ship raid or two) you will end up with a very respectable pile of inf just 'playing the game'.

I've sort of stalled out on my 'regular gameplay' stalker, what with all the distractions of the past few issues, but at last check he was level 34 or so with 60 million in the bank, and that's *before* earning power really starts to ramp up.

When anyone (literally anyone) can make a fast, reliable 100m+ with amerits the bleating of the "too expensive" crowd sounds ever flatter and less convincing.

You will still be benefiting from those 'outrageous' prices every time you sell a drop. The amount of inf you make dumping stuff on the market always has and always will dwarf the amount you make from defeats.

'Outrageous' prices aren't as long as your earning power rises along with costs.


And if the argument is "people should be able to kit out with l337 gear just by using the inf from defeated enemies", I don't think that's a reasonable or desirable direction to go.

to you.

I personally love it.

some people do have ridiculously massive avatars.

Ah, okay- that explains much.

I apologize for getting snippy with you, I thought you were being deliberately contradictory.

r/e the topic at hand, here's my perspective.

The only genuinely expensive things in the game are purples, pvp IOs and to a lesser extent the uniques + LotG recharges. They're all nice to have, but not required even for efficiency-crucial stuff like bigtime farming. My 'best' farmer is my fire tank and while he's nicely kitted out I'd be shocked if his build cost more than 1b total. He has no purples other than the chance for fire damage proc, he has one LotG recharge I stuck in combat jumping just for the heck of it, and the only reason he's got the Numina and Miracle uniques in Health is because he's a toggle heavy end hog.

Everything else is slotted with good but not outrageously expensive sets. And he can ticket cap an MA farm map in 10 minutes.

Would he be better with a l337 Mids build full of super expensive stuff?
Sure.
Would doing that *dramatically* improve his performance at the stuff I use him for (farming MA, running tips)?
Not really. He'd be better, sure, but not OMGWTFBBQ!!!11 better.

As one of the regs noted a while back (Fulmens, I think?) the performance jump with the biggest WOW! factor is between an SO build and a solid IO build.
And that is well within the reach of anyone who plays 'normally' to level 50- missions, story arcs, a TF now and then, some tip missions....the inf piles up fast.

I don't intuit any subtle nuance in the argument "I want elite stuff to be cheap for everyone". It seems pretty cut and dried.

I'm not "misinterpreting" anything, I'm going by your exact statements.

Start with your badly flawed, poorly informed assumptions and lame pretense of heroically defending the 'casual gamer' who can't purple their warshade and work from there.

that's exactly what you've been saying in all your previous posts.

The difference between everyone should get everything for free and everyone should get epic performance for minimal investment isn't much.


The market does NOTHING to create inf, it only facilitates moving it around between players (while taking a cut, making it one of the few inf SINKS in the game).

Inf is created by players beating stuff up and running content, not by marketeers plying their trade. Complain about the devs doubling the earning power of 50s if you want to tilt at the windmill of inflation- leave the market out of it.

You'll find welcome among the flat earthers and creationists I mentioned earlier.

with all your carrying on an explicit statement wasn't needed.

Judging by the actions of your many predecessors, you'll keep whining about not getting everything for free because it alienates the poor "casual gamer".

Feel free to prove me wrong.

To *actually do that* would indeed take a huge amount of effort. And it would require driving the price point up far higher than equalibrium, which isn't "flipping" as defined by marketeers.

A for profit flipper wouldn't bother with commons, not with so many other easier and more lucrative options available.


Sanctimonious concern for the poor, poor "casual gamer" is what poker players call a "tell". You can keep pretending if you want, but we know your game.

I'd argue that your position that "minimal" effort should be required to achieve "epic" results doesn't leave you much wiggle room for looking reasonable. You seem to be firmly in "gotta purple my casual warshade!" territory.

you're really going out of your way to take offense.

We have collectively accumulated enough observable proof of our market truths that "dogma" isn't an accurate description.

The economic Creationists and Flat Earthers we get in here with their exotic, unsupported theories about how things work have done plenty of challenging over the years.

Alas for them, wishing doesn't make it so.
Observable reality holds sway over this forum in the same way it holds sway over the market itself.

for me the old forums were a laggy nightmare of post-devouring madness.
even with all the annoying quirks the new ones kick the old ones up and down the block.

I'm with you on solving issues with the new forums, but the old one were awful and needed to be put down.

Anyone can be pretty darn super with nothing but SOs.
Anyone can be quite a bit more super than that using cheap IOs and some build ingenuity.
As for being "epic" with "minimal cost"- if its widely available it isn't epic at all, it's status quo.

*shrug*

Not seeing any validity in your complaint.


As defined by who, exactly?

there is no more a 'proper' way to use the market than there is a 'proper' way to run a mission- players define their own fun and efforts to legislate that will always be doomed.

a new player who wants all the rewards with little to no effort isn't doing the game any good and doesn't need an advocate.

the real Bay wouldn't let a tune as awesome as The Crablouse near one of his shambling towers of reanimated poop.

and he's also never made a film as efficiently concise as the Dawn of the Dead remake.

Not a huge fan of Snyder, but he's substantially more talented and interesting than Bay.

80 tickets is 'expensive'?

huh!

i mean, y'know, if the inf is too rich for your blood...there are options.

my tank rolls at +1/x8 with bosses.
he can go higher, but the ticket bump doesn't compensate for the increased time it takes to burn everything down (for him, at least).

When I finish IO'ing him out I'll probably be able to dial it up, but for now that's his most efficient setting.

I don't pay real close attention to the numbers, but it's a small ambush farm with custom enemies, two bosses spawn the ambushes. Mowing all of one boss's ambushes and most of the other guys will cap me out in ~10 minutes.

I don't have a stop watch, but after years of farming this and that I have a pretty good feel for slight changes in drop parameters. I've been running this one close to daily for a month plus now, it seems unchanged.