Moghedien_EU

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To much to read but this post i feel needs a comment so...

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR TINY MIND!!!!!

asking for nerfs is just so dum they need to put you back in your rubber room i think, if this game gets any more so called balance its going to fall of its scales and crash into pool of total c r a p

Someone call the police and tell them a nutter called Moghedien is on the lose

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Very mature indeed and so informative :-)

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Me, id like to see 90% of resources spent on new content and the rest fixing bugs.

I just dont think that what you are putting forward as a reason for a major power revamp is worth the expense this late in a games life.

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Make Rage unstackable, add -dmg or - rech on RTTC would not be a major power revamp, and could be done very easy.

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Of course thats the same as just getting on with playing the bloody game without having your chars constantly messed about with aint it.

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Just because something was wrong and overpowered from the start, or became overpowered through changes to the game, doesnt justify for not adjusting it.

Every mmopg is in a constant state of nerfing, buffing, improving different classes, sets.

If you want no changes to powers you need to play single player games.

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Yea well that wants putting a stop to as well, god forbit people should just play the game how they want, without fear of someone else not liking it and demanding a nerf.

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Well true let everyone play how they like it best, who cares about balance in a mmorpg.....

Let ppl exploit, use bots, hack the game if they like it and only have fun playing the game if there chars are op :-)

I played many mmorpgs and they all tried to balance the different sets or classes.

Warhammer online was losing most of its customers cause several classes were so OP it was breaking the game......

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Psi AVs can almost 2 shot Granite brutes, cause they got no psi defense at all.

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Minerals?

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And One with The Earth, and Rooted.

WP is a little better against Psi, but it is far far inferior vs S/L and even worse vs F/C/E/N.

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Of course you cant move at all with those powers active and you forget about the regen WP has as its main way to migitate damg :-)

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I'm with Praf on this one. A lot of people play what is percieved as being the uber set. We've seen fotm's change from one combo to another over the years. Nerf SS/WP and all you'll do is cause that particular crowd of players to start on the new fotm.

Not one decent argument has been given by the OP as to how they would nerf SS/WP brutes without murdering tanks, stalkers, scrappers that use one of these powersets (or brutes that only use one of these sets).

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Make rage unstackable would be a start.
And dont tell me that would gimp the chars....there was no stackable rage before sets came out without outside buffs and SS was doing fine.

Add some debuffs to WP like Stone gets them.
Like a - dmg or - rech on RTTC.

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Don't try to tell me that /WP is defensively stronger than /Stone, or has better aoe damage than fire/fire, and how many have noticed that with the issue 13 buffs to Dark Melee just how powerful Dark/SR can be?

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WP isnt stronger than Stone, but almost equal.
Psi AVs can almost 2 shot Granite brutes, cause they got no psi defense at all.
And WP doesnt get ANY of the debuffs Stone gets.
Remove recharge, damg and movement debuff from stone or at least two of them, and the 2 sets are equal.

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And i often see that others brutes cant contribute half as much to the team a SS or even SS/WP can.

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Even if that was true, why would it bother you?

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Hm read post above ?

Cause I want to feel needed in a team and contribute something to it, and if i play my other brutes in a team with a SS/WP brute might aswell doorsit......

My other brutes are from the times there was no WP, and i dont play them anymore, cause once i had my SS/Wp slotted i have seen how gimp they are compared to it.

I want to contribute something to a team, i do enjoy helping a team and contribute my part.
But when i am in a team with a SS/WP as one of my other brutes i feel useless, cause he could do everything alone, and most of the times they kill 8 man spawns faster than other brutes kill 4 mobs.

Thats why i only play my SS/WP for a long time now.
And i often see that others brutes cant contribute half as much to the team a SS or even SS/WP can.


The devs dont want farming, so the best solution is to make it for certain "farm" combos harder to solo farm maps, instead of preventing farms for everyone.

Its funny how some ppl (who obviously dont want certain sets to be nerfed cause they love how op they are) pretend to not know that those sets are overpowered compared to others :-)

Just check the numbers off ss/wp brutes or SS/** or WP/** brutes compared to other sets......
But of course ppl just roll them cause they like the concept and not because they are the best sets....

Claimg those sets arent overpowered compared to others. until some official posts the numbers is just ignorant.

Lets face it everyone knows those sets are better than the rest, but deny it out of fear that they beloved char is getting nerfed.

SS might not be the best set to solo an AV, but how often do ppl solo AVS ?

Which sets apart from SS/WP can solo 8 man spawns wihtout problems without pausing in between , without insane amounts of money put into sets ?

Everyone who played a SS/Wp and several other brute sets like me, knows how op it is compared to others.

Unbalanced games are no fun at least imo.
Why have other sets apart from nice looks, when they are so much worse?

And as i said i got a SS/Wp and like 10 other 50 brutes, 3 of them SS and 2 WP, thats why i know what they play like.


Btw this thread had very many replies in a short time, most likely all SS/Wp players.....

I doubt that if the thread was Fire/Dark or any other combo, there would have been half as many replies if any at all.

Godd indicator how many ppl play SS/Wp :-)

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BOTH SS and Wp are superior to the other sets, which has been datamined.

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When did they release those results?

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Look in brute section here :-)

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The question is largely down to Endurance, SS uses a disproportionate amount - nerf the net reward for what it uses and any other secondary (or primary for a tanker) in use will suffer unfairly. Likewise nerf WP and many characters with it as a primary or secondary will suffer.

The real place balance issues arise of course (and the only place where my build is anyone else's business), is pvp and brutes in general are not overpowered in pvp and any nerf will just make that imbalance worse.

Situational in pve and worse in pvp; WP can also suffer ie RttC isnt much good 1 on 1 now is it?

Nerfing sets is a negative concept that is completely the WRONG approach to balance, what is needed and what no one can really complain about is that other powers in other sets get a bit of love...that's the positive stance and time it was taken imnho ^^

Edit I also agree with the post above, SS/WP simply have a good synergy and neither are inherently overpowered, we need more sets with good synergy imo.

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BOTH SS and Wp are superior to the other sets, which has been datamined.
SO its NOT juts the SS/WP combo......

SS end usage isnt bigger than other sets end usage at all.
YOu might think of the Rage end crash.....
Rage damg boost and fs insane damg + radius let you kill mobs faster with way less end usage than the other sets need.

Try to kill a group of 10 mobs as DM or EM and you will see you use way more end, cause you lack an insane aoe and crazy damg buff.

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Sure, if you go after a WP toon with what it's most effective against then you will get better results than some other defence sets.
Try the same comparison with say, Fire damage. Or maybe run a comparison with Stone Armour? (Granite + Stone Skin + Rooted, nuff said)

There are also some weaknesses in Willpower that you haven't taken into account that can be crippling during combat.
-Regen effects will get a WP Brute or Tanks killed in seconds.
Slow and -Regen effects will bring a WP toon to a halt with very little effort.
Any non-S/L/Psi damage can make very short work of a WP toon if it doesn't have a horde in melee to regen off of.

Effectively the raw survival of WP is dependent of being "in the thick of it", remove that factor and WP isn't really any stronger than other defence sets.

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Aehm using Granite as comparison to Wp is just lol....

Psi attacks kill granite in seconds, and we all know how many AVs use psi attacks.

Granites high resists and moderate def comes at a VERY high cost, maybe you forget that ......
Almost no movementspeed, a recharge debuff and a dmg debuff.

WP has none of those debuffs to compenstae for the insane amount of survivability.

Its simply false that without many mobs to fuel RttC any non S/L mobs can take down WP fast.

True WP isnt any stronger than other sets if you fight small groups its equal to the other sets.
But against large groups its way better than the other sets.
You see the point ?
Why should it be equal to others vs small groups but superior to the other sets vs big groups ?
Normally a set is better in one aspect and inferior in another.

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I've deleted my first, and second reply.

Brutes rely on Rage. So they have to keep fighting constantly. This makes endurance management their most important factor. Therefore Willpower is the only logical choice, really.

The powersets are becoming increasingly anodyne as the powers all fit into some formula of damage, activation time and endurance cost. Please leave things alone.

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Why is WP the only logical choice for end managment ?

Elec and energy do have much better end managment WP can ever get.
Even fire has an end managment power.

If you take DM as primary you got an end managment power as well.

Its just that WP offers insane regen + great resists + nice defense on top of a good end managment.

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No and No

If you don't like the sets yourself, don't use them - your problem is solved and no one else has to suffer Hurrah!

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Aehm i like the combo a lot, its not about liking it or not.
Of course pll always liked and always will like overpowered combos in mmorpgs, thats why the devs in all mmorpgs try to avoid such combos, classes, sets.
Its a question of balance........

Of course most SS/Wp brutes dont want it to get nerfed thats natural, nobody wants a godlike char nerfed to reasonable lvls :-)

But other than not wanting ones own SS/Wp get nerfed, is there a logical reason not to tone it down to the lvl of performance of other sets ?

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A point that people overlook is WP is the worst aggro holding ability of any defense set - which on a brute hurts damage, as well as the usefulness of the brute to the team.

And SS is pure smashing damge, which is resisted by many mobs.

SS/WP is fotm at the moment because people think it's better, but they are not taking all the factors into acount.

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Rage and specifically double stacked rage is more than enough to do more damg to even heavily smashing resistant mobs than less resisted damg types.

As far as holding agro goes, who needs them ?

Brute runs in FS gets agro, FS dead mobs, there is no need for taunt aura at all.

Energy, SR and shield got no dmg auras either.
Pure taunt auras dont help with damg at all, fury is full as soon as a brute jumps into a mob. One aoe attack and he got agro.

Ppl only get taunt auras cause they either come with damg or def or resists, not cause taunt helps with damg.

Thats why no brute i ever seen takes the taunt from primary apart from maybe LRSF brutes.

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Why nerf?

If players want to play that combo let them.

I use DB/WP in a scrapper and a Brute and /WP in a few more that is my choice. I also use other secondaries. I don't have a SS/WP because SS/ doesn't fit with any (so far) of my ideas for Alts.

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Cause the devs are trying to balance the sets , thats why DM got buffed, and Et got nerfed (not sure why cause apart from PvP it wasnt overpowered).

So they try to balance yet leaving the most played and overpowered sets untouched.

Sure there will always be sets that are better than others and combos that are better, but imo not by that much better.

There shouldnt be any classes, combos or sets that are far superior to others ... in no mmorpg.

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Give up asking for nerfs. /unsigned especially when what your saying is wrong.

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I am not wrong and you know it.....
Guess your just another one fearing your favorite sets are getting nerfed.

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Why would i be fearing that? Because you asked for a nerf?

Actually im past caring what they nerf now, they ruined my favorite brute with the energy nerf .

I have practically every popular combo of brute, and i just think what your saying is wrong.

SS/WP is just an easy combo to play, if you know what your doing there are lots of good combo's.

Some just need a bit more attention when you play them.

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Sure there are other nice and good combos, and if you know how to play every combo is good, but that doesnt change the fact that SS/WP still is better if the players have the same skill.

Even without sets that combo performs better than most other combos with sets.

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Why nerf us? Why not buff the enemy....

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Cause other sets would underperform even more compared to SS/WP then.

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Give up asking for nerfs. /unsigned especially when what your saying is wrong.

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I am not wrong and you know it.....
Guess your just another one fearing your favorite sets are getting nerfed.

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Instead of toning down two good sets, why not improve the sets that aren't performing so well? Give them tweaks and additions to make them more attractive? WP has +Recovery, a nice range of resists, + regen, and is basically geared towards chewing through enemies as brutes should be. SS is a perfect partner to this, especially with Rage too.

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Hm let me think of it....

--Cause the other sets are just fine ?
--Its easier to nerf 2 sets than buff ALL others ?
--While brutes are meant to chew through enemies and all combos can do that fine solo and in teams, I DOUBT that specific combos like SS/WP are meant to run through 8 players spawns solo with ease.
--the game is already too easy, buffing all sets to SS/WP lvl would make it pathetic, challenge makes a game worth playing.

I know ppl dont want nerfs but even with nerfs this combo wont be gimp.

Atm ss/wp is a tankblastertroller and completely overpowered, everyone knows that, thats why everyone plays them.
They just want to admit it cause they fear losing their godmode.

I loved to play CoX for a long time now and i always loved the diversity of powers, but lately its starting to get dull.

95% of all brutes are SS/WP.
There is really no reason to roll other combos apart from SS/WP, since SS is the best st AND aoe damg primary and WP is by far the best seconadry.

ALL other primaries and secondaries suck compared to those 2.

I am no fan of nerfs but SS needed a nerf a long time ago, like reduced radius of FS and non stackable rage.

Nothing comes close to WP in survivability.
Granite tanks/brutes have to deal with - rech, - dmg and almost no run speed to compensate the lvl of survivability.

WP has even better survivability with NO downsides at all.

I know ppl dont like nerfs but its a question of balance and reason.

IMO those 2 sets need to be toned down in order to not make others set meaningless.


P.S: I got a SS/Wp too :-)

Try to PvP in GV with your tanks and not your trollers, blasters, defenders or spine scrappers and come here to tell it was fun Fahine :-)

Sure other games dont have the kind of movement CoX has, but thats the reason why they are much more balanced PvP wise.

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2 ranged attacks in Spines + 1 med range aoe, maybe check the set before posting ?

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Check the set yourself

1 ranged attack with a short range ( 40ft )
1 cone attack with a very short range (30ft)
1 pbaoe with an even shorter range ( 15ft, basically melee range )

No AOE's in that set that I can see

In comparison, the epics have 2, 4 and 3 ranged attacks respectively, all of which eclipse the range of impale, up to 80ft in some cases.

Fahie

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Forgot the p infront of aoe big deal :-)

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Sighs

If you don't believe either is possible then you need to play some more. It's possible to chase 99% of people down with anything other than a granite tank.

For reference, my spines/sr scrapper was my best zonal pvp character pre I13.


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No wonder your scrapper was best zonal PvP, since spines is the only set with many ranged attacks for meele toons.

Spines dont count as meele imao.

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Oh no throw spines! If one ranged attack means it's not melee, then your point doesn't apply to RV as every single Melee AT has access to a ranged attack.

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2 ranged attacks in Spines + 1 med range aoe, maybe check the set before posting ?

If you find a meele set with ranged attacks, apart from ss and sm with hurl boulder and claws i would be surprised.
Thats far from every single meele set.
And the WoW chars you meantioned above are NO caster types but mostly meele.
Pure healers in WoW cant kill [censored] and you know it.

I played many online games and in everyone i played you traded high damg and ranged , or crowd control and ranged for being squishy.
Thats where the word class canon comes from .............