Moghedien_EU

I just have enough of ppl saying other chars are overpowered in pvp, when at the same time they say they can take on 3 players at once with their toons and think thats ok.

If i want other sets nerfed cause i see them overpowered and my char does just fine vs 3 players i at least admit that my char is op too.

Thats what i mean its always the others that are op not the own char.
But it has been like that in all games all times so i shouldnt wonder.

How often do you see players saying the sets they play the most are op ? Very rarely

How often do you see players crying for nerfs of other classes they dont play ? Very often.

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When did Charnell say she/he wasn't over powered?

And this...

You want an AT to be more survivable than other ATs in PvP while dealing the same damg as the "squishier" ATs ?


You just go on and on making brainless assumptions about other peoples posts. JUST READ WHAT IS THERE AND NOTHING MORE!

"It is better not to speak and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

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Even if Charnell thinks he is op, he never mentioned it, only saying the others are op......nerf others but leave my set alone as usual.

He says scrappers are supposed to be more survivable than other ATs apart from tanks, go read his post again before posting.

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NEWSFLASH- Ignore previous statement. Was based on the false assumption that a scrapper wasnt supposed to have high survivability second only to tankers. And widows/forts obv.

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In PvE your right, but you might have noticed that we talk about PvP, and the devs seem to think there shouldnt be any "more survivable" classes in PvP anymore thats why they added resists to all "squishies".

Btw masterminds are supposed to be the villain side "tankers" in PvE, you think they are survivable in PvP just because of their role in PvE ?

Pls explain to me why scrappers are supposed to be the most survivable class after tanks in PvP.
You want an AT to be more survivable than other ATs in PvP while dealing the same damg as the "squishier" ATs ?

In every MMRPG PvP i played chars trade survivability for either more damg or debuffs, crowd control, healing, this is no longer true for CoX PvP therefore there arent any "more survivable" Ats anymore.

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Hm charnell you say forts and widows are op, but at the same time you say you have no probs with your BS/regen against 3 players as long as they are no widows or forts.

No problem against 3 players while able to deal damg sounds op to me too.

How come you dont think your op and just the widows or forts are because they can kill you ?

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Hm Moghedien you say lots of stupid things and argue so hard for the sake of arguing that you basically start arguing with yourself.

Hilarious but should be nerfed.

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Would you be so kind to point out where i was wrong with my comment instead of just trolling ?:-)

Hm charnell you say forts and widows are op, but at the same time you say you have no probs with your BS/regen against 3 players as long as they are no widows or forts.

No problem against 3 players while able to deal damg sounds op to me too.

How come you dont think your op and just the widows or forts are because they can kill you ?

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I think you should learn to read Moghedien. Fahie simply stated that he/she would hate to know what you thought of elude. That is not the same as saying that PFF is easier to hit through than elude.

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Fahie said in one thread that forts and nw are almost impossible to hit, while she says here that its not very hard to hit through PFF which offers way more defense than nw or forts can get.

So its either the one or the other.....

Granted maybe i have trouble to understand everything or arguing effective, since its not my native language, but i am always polite ... <removed by mod>

I might disagree with Fahie often but i like arguing with her cause shes nice (most of the time ^^)
She pointed out i misunderstood something and i accept that.

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You made it seem psi mez is autohit.
But the thread was nerf PFF because you can't work around it, sorry.

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Psi mezz isnt better than any other mezz vs PFF, i thought you meant its better against PFF because its has no positional component.
PFF grants positional and typed def all the same value, so it has same psi def aswell.

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Psi mez has no positional value and only psi defence works.
Also playing my violin.

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True psi mezz has no positionla value... but PFF has the same defense numbers for both positional and typed :-)

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Whilst it is handy to know a base lay out that alone won't give you victory. You can't interact with anything so all you have achieved is to know where items are. That is not game breaking at all! It might be annoying you can't hit the person but get a couple of debuffs on and you soon be able to hit them much more.

Remember you can just as easily pop loads of defense inspirations and attack items/players. There are lots of little tricks you can do to limit and disadvantage your opponents, not that it matters now as base raiding has been disabled until further notice.

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True but in a base raid you cant buy new insp all the time.
What bothers me is that you can just ingnore all defenses of a base and run into the rooms with the objectives, and those rooms normally cant hold much defense items.
Well all phase powers can do that tbh.

I hope we get base raids back in I14 ^^

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No .. where did I say opposite ?
Don't believe at any point I said that PFF was easier to hit through than PVP elude levels?

Fahie

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"
Because phase means you really can't be hit and PFF means you are *unlikely* to be hit.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been hit through PFF both PVE and PVP. A few faceplants here and there
Back on subject, PFF is not even close to impossible to hit through. FA/yellows/no- acc-check debuffs ... all will see that PFF looking a bit tame very quickly.

PS *is* impossible to hit through, obviously.

Besides, if PFF's overpowered then I hate to know what you think of elude"
"

Remember ?

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Where?


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Read her post again ?

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Sure forts are difficult to hit its their own defense.
But ppl say they are almost impossible to hit.

But as you said : FA >> yellow or buildup and it isnt very hard anymore.

Imo its the psi damg which almost no sets have def or resists against that make fort seem overpowered and not the defenses as many point out.

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Back on topic ....

Jess has put it better than I can.

For completeness, I'll summarise my thoughts regarding PFF

1 : It's not impossible to hit through by any stretch of the imagination.
2 : Whilst it's up, your opponent can't do anything bar buff and heal themselves thereby contributing little to a running battle.
3 : It can be used, like phase, as a panic button. It is less effective than phase for this by a long chalk. Hence, it has a shorter recharge time.

Ergo, I *personally* do not believe it to be overpowered in the slightest.

Fahie

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Aehm Jess did say even a nw in elude isnt as hard to hit as someone in PFF, think you missed her point ....pretty much the opposit you said.

So she put it better than you can in saying PFF is better than nightwidow in elude ? :-)

Phase is on a 180 sec timer and cant be used like PFF to attack pop it , attack pop it etc etc.

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<sighs> I never said forts were impossible to hit, simply that they are difficult to hit.
Forts can interact with their environment whilst having high defense levels, with PFF you can't.
Whilst not interacting with your environment, you *can* still be hit with PFF up.
You seem to be under the ( incorrect ) impression that PFF equals invulnerable.

Remember, there's always a 5% chance you will hit anything that isn't phased.

As always Moghedien, you just seem to be spoiling for an argument rather than being interested in actually discussing your original point.

That's my observation anyway.

Fahie

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Sure forts are difficult to hit its their own defense.
But ppl say they are almost impossible to hit.

But as you said : FA >> yellow or buildup and it isnt very hard anymore.

Imo its the psi damg which almost no sets have def or resists against that make fort seem overpowered and not the defenses as many point out.

Hm it seems strange that you Fahie say PFF isnt hard to hit through and on the other hand you say fortunata and nightwidow defenses are way too high and they are almost impossible to hit ?

PFF is way higher def than forts get and a bit higher than nightwidows get out of elude.

So what shall it be ?
Forts and nw are almost impossible to hit like you said many times ?
Then Pff is even more so.. but you say PFF isnt hard to hit through.

Pls enlighten me

Its really funny to see how ppl say certain Ats are overpowered because of the high defenses they cant hit through in PvP.
And in a different thread even better defenses are easy to hit through cause now its their char who got the defenses.

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But you were talking about it being game-breaking for raids ...ah ... just noticed the "base" bit before that, anyways ... moving swiftly along ( ahem )

/agreed that invis powers are useless pvp on anything other than a stalker

Back on subject, PFF is not even close to impossible to hit through. FA/yellows/no- acc-check debuffs ... all will see that PFF looking a bit tame very quickly.

PS *is* impossible to hit through, obviously.

Besides, if PFF's overpowered then I hate to know what you think of elude

Fahie

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Elude is on a 1000 sec timer and a tier 9, and PFF on a 30 sec timer ^^

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Because phase means you really can't be hit and PFF means you are *unlikely* to be hit.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been hit through PFF both PVE and PVP. A few faceplants here and there

It's certainly no more game-breaking in PVE than Invisibility.
And you can't click on glowies or TP friend whilst PFF is up.

Leave it as it is IMHO, both for PVP and PVE

Fahie

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Its almost impossible and not just "unlikely" to hit through a slotted PFF in PvP.

You really want to compare 52% def and 28% res from Pff to 7% def from invis and say they are both equal considering its pretty easy to see through pool invis ?

As the forum hints, i am talking bout PvP and not PvE

Imo PFF needs changes in PvP.

How come phase has 180 sec recharge and a max duration and Pff has 30 secs recharge and can be run all time ?

Its pathetic that you can attack pop PFF, attack pop PFF.
Imo either the recharge needs to be increased by a huge amount or the def needs to be lowered by a huge amount.

If you think of base raids this power is gamebreaking.

Pop PFF, scout the whole base and just run to the objectives without anyone able to stop you.

Just wow....
I never would have thought there will ever be a company as [censored] as sony online when it comes to customer support and information, now NCsoft has proven me wrong

Imo if we can transfer everything:

chars,inf,badges,bases

most players wouldnt mind.

If we just get US accounts and have to start over my bet would be, they loose 90% of the EU players.

Oh well champions and dc online comming and the new star wars game looks awesome too.

Of course its sad ppl lose their jobs, but thats how things are.
Older games get rid of their staff while new games create new jobs.


I really want to know how many active EU subscribers CoX has.

Of course because meele range got a buff bunnyhopping isnt a good way to avoid meele attacks .....

Cause 7`range is as good as 60`.......

Being perma held or perma stunned was taking much more speed and fun out of PVp than movement supressions.

At least now you CAN move after a few seconds pre I13 you couldnt move AT ALL if you were held for a looong time.

Movement isnt supressed if you dont attack or being attacked. So no frustartion there.

Sure its frustrating for ranged chars that you get supressed now when attacking, but maybe think of meele toons and how frustrating it was for them to get kited from ranged bunnyhoppers without the chance to even fight back ?

Not very balanced if you have to chase a bunnyhopper for ages to get ONE attack of and during that time he kites you from safety, imo.

Even with supression, bunnyhopping is still possible and a very good way to avoid meele attacks.

Maybe be open enough to accept that players who prefer meele toons want at least stand a chance against ranged toons ?

If you dont like movement supression come up with another way of making meele toons worth something in PvP, since without it ranged is the only way to go in PvP.

I see more villains in RV than pre I13.
Might be because heroes had an advantage over villains with their epic pools..

_Stryke_ i only post what is my opinion of what i experience ingame.
Same goes for you, you dont have facts either its your opinion of what you see ingame....
Do you have prove and numbers and facts how many ppl were in WB or RV comapred to now ? I guess not... neither do i.

Like when i said something about SS/Wp cause of my experience with the combo... many ppl did not only disagree without having facts or numbers either, but without having played and experienced the combo themselves.

Imo PvP is more balanced.. and thats it, my opinion.
You got your opinion thats ok, but dont say i am wrong if i cant post facts cause you cant either.

Of course granite goes down fast to forts since forts are all about psi damg and granite has no psi resist or def.....

Try wp or elec with psi resists ?

Yeah pre I13 PvP was very balanced......
Meele toons were unplayble in PvP since ranged was the only really option in pvp.

Very balanced when all a ranged toons had to do was bunnyhopp around just kiting meele toons which couldnt fight back at all.
If you consider that balanced pvp try have another look at other pvp games.....

Movement supresion isnt really that bad you make it out to be, bunnyhopping as ranged char is still a solid way to avoid attacks from meele toons.
How is movement frustrating now ?
You can still move as before if you dont attack something or are attacked.

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You seem to be basing all your opinions on figures. Have you actually fought forts/widows?
You are completely wrong about bs scrappers. My bs/regen has had at least 200+ million inf spent on it. It has sets in every power that accepts them. It HAS FOCUSED ACCURACY and it stuggles to hit forts/widows. Plus in reality no fort/widow or any half decent player stands toe to toe fighting. They move around further limiting your ability to land a string of blows. While at the same time the veat can and does pour a huge amount of ranged damage onto you.

Yes defence hits DR and mids doesnt show it. I am well aware of that fact. Even 32% defence in pvp is very good at blocking attacks. The soft cap is 42.5% anyway. Anything over that serves no purpose other than mitigating -def debuffs.

And why repeatedly reference SS as being a veat killer? It is better obviously as it is the best melee pvp set being as OP as it is now. Again SS isnt ranged and you need that fort to stay still long enough to rain an attack chain on them and as I said only the poorest player would let you do that.

Rads were very powerful pre i13. In a duel yes they were probably one of the best sets. In a larger conflict though they became good but I wouldnt say OP.

What ultimately are you arguing for? You believe i13pvp is an improvement?

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Every tank and brute with Ss can get TWO ranged attacks.
Tanks can get laser beam eyes that kill a fort or nw very very very fast since laser beam eyes has a huge dedebuff.

With a bit of recharge those 2 ranged attacks can be spammed as an attack chain, giving SS a ranged attack chain boosted by rage and or fury which deal heavy damg.

So they get a ranged attack chain aswell if they want. on top of 3 times the HP AND like 6 times the resists nw or forts get.

Of course your bs/regen has problems hitting a fort or nw cause thats the POINT of defensive sets, since when a hit lands it hits a char without resists, and when it hits the defdebuff gets a defensive set into big trouble, since a cascade effect starts, till you hit all time.

If every player with every set could hit defensive sets easily, there would be no point for defensive sets in pvp..

Maybe players need to attack 3 or 4 times to land a hit but when the hit lands it deals FULL damg, to a char WITHOUT an inherent heal and low hps.

You might land every hit on a meele toon like tanker or brute, but most got a heal with NO diminishing returns 3 times the HP and 60% resists, which means even if all your attacks hit, you need as many attacks to kill those chars since your attacks deals way less damg to them.

I think PvP is better overall now in I13, but still needs tuning.

While they balanced (nerfed) some totally overpowered sets, they made several sets unplayable cause they got nerfed too much.

Imo many of the former overpowered chars had to get nerfed(balanced) to bring them on par with all the other sets, but some sets got nerfed way too much i admit that.

While some sets are now a bit too good in PvP compared to ALL the sets and combos out there, i think PvP is more balanced overall.

If they buff the "broken" Ats and sets, like /rad or doms or most troller primaries and balance some other stuff, pvp should be almost perfect, imo.

I see much more players in PvP zones now than before I13 so at least some seem to like the changes.

I understand that some pre I13 harcore pvpers are angry that their toons got nerfed in PvP, i would be angry too i think.

But honestly there were some specific AT and set combos which were so overpowered that pvp wasnt fun for all others cause those sets and combos meant certain defeat....

Its more balanced now , not perfect but more balanced comparing ALL ATs and ALL sets or combos.

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To say NOTHINg can compete on equal skill is just the way it is.

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Edited for correctness

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As you said you killed a fort on your spines/sr scrapper 3 times and the fort killed you 5 times, that doenst sound as if the fort was totally unbeatable (you said yourself your werent the best pvper either)

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<big sigh>
Did I say I was playing against the "best pvp'r in the world" ?

No .. I was playing someone of about the same skill level as myself, someone who I had beaten on the same toon pre I12. And I got 3 kills due to TS when ripper actually hit through.

I'm not the best, but I'm certainly no slouch either.

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So your "fact" is proven wrong by your own earlier statement :-)

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Again, miss-quoting and putting words in my mouth. Getting bored of this to be honest.

Someone else's turn to try and talk sense into this person, if they feel the effort is worth it.

Fahie

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Lol didnt missquote you at all.
Your last post proves you didnt read mine, or didnt understand it since your post now again provesand makes it even clearer, your statement was wrong.

You said nothing competes with a fort on even skill and build.
Same time you say you killed one of equal skill 3 times.... doesnt make sense, since it indicates you CAN compete with a fort of equal skill and build.
Nothing can compete means NOTHING can kill a fort, which is wrong SS toons can easily and your spines/sr was able to do it too.(does your spines/sr have focused accuracy ?)

Just because you beaten him before i13 all time and now you only win 40% of the time doesnt mean the fort is overpowered now, just implies its more even.

Funny how you twist your own earlier statments so they fit your theory, and if you cant twist them any longer you getting bored :-)