Memphis_Bill

/l "Thanks, didn't need it though."
Right. Everyone should go around thinking "I COULD help you, but you can go die as far as I care" instead. As opposed to the "Hey, someone actually saved me without me asking and let me win the fight" that gets mentioned many, *many* times over - and often as the introduction to the COH community itself in game, giving most a *good impression.*

<sarcasm>Selfishness is obviously the way to go, ignore everyone else who could possibly use help and appreciate it, in fact, we should just stand around and laugh as someone gets defeated. </sarcasm>

You mean... like those praetorian arcs from 40-50 that mention "blue clockwork" and "silver clockwork," and send us out to find out where they're from, stop them from speeding up time and the like?

For he who protests the name - Seems like either (a) Primal Earth gave them the name, or (b) they were given the name "purely out of coincidence" on Praetorian Earth for keeping things, oh, "running like clockwork," perhaps. A shared name is NOT a shared origin. Besides, the Clockwork *did* serve a vaguely similar function in Paragon just after the Rikti war, helping with cleanup - until people noticed them taking all the metal.

hmmm?

War Witch has been around for a while.

See, here's the thing -

Those of us who will toss off a buff to be nice will also tend to respect a "Please don't do that, I'm (trying to see what I can do/insert reason here,)" make a note and go on. I even stated earlier, I'll one star the person - not out of malice (it doesn't do jack to them, after all,) but if I see that, it's an instant "check the notes" for me.

The end result? Four minutes or less of "forced" (and I use that word VERY loosely and with no slight touch of sarcasm) gameplay for the recipient, a moment of me adding a note, and we go on our way without them getting buffed again.

The flip side, the "you're forcing me to play your way/you're playing the game for me" argument? They're saying - even as they slip in a "yeah, sure, you're trying to be nice" - that everyone who dares do that *to be nice,* or because it's what their character would do, is ruining the game for them and should absolutely stop or, in the case of a character nearly at defeat, take the time to type/remember a bind/hope the recipient decides to type instead of fight instead of making that split second decision to help.

Who's trying to force a playstyle on who? Who's being told they're *wrong* and should completely stop playing or alter their playstyle, binding (which doesn't maintain between accounts, etc.) and the like? Hell, look at the title - "More stupid drive by buffers" - I'm surprised there hasn't been MORE antagonism in this thread, quite frankly.

... buh?

So, if you saw someone with a "No buffs please" title and you asked, explaining why, you don't think they'd invite you?

That's an assumption. *shrug* True for some, not true for others.
And, again, shared membership - you don't have to do anything as an SG, heck, don't even need a base if you can find a willing coalition or two.

And I'll point out, again - not that this is really directed at you, more that it is at Kat's comments earlier - the difference between the griefing I mentioned and the "Doing anything to me at all without my express consent is griefing me" attitude.

If it's that important that everyone know 24/7 you don't want to be buffed, create an SG called No Buffs Please and coalition it with your current SG. That way you will *always* have that sign over your head. Or at least in your target info.

And yes, way back when Sonic had its original (nausea/headache/seizure inducing) graphics, I did indeed throw a "main" character or two into the SG "No Sonic Buffs TY" (or something similar, the group obviously doesn't exist now.)

Of course, that was a health issue, not a "I don't like it and you're a jerk for trying to help" matter. Even so, the responsibility was on *me* to tell people I didn't want that particular buff. I didn't assume that everyone running around with their (then-new) sonic characters was trying to "ruin my gameplay" or "play the game for me," and wouldn't know that that particular buff made me physically ill. It was on *me* to tell them - which was always done politely. So my telling Kat (et al) that they shouldn't assume, that the responsibility is on them, is not just... oh, "theoretical." It's something I, at one point, had to put into practice.

Edit: And yes, I ran through the entire gamut, people asking why (which would usually get an "Oh, I didn't know" after a bound explanation,) people apologizing, and exactly one person who *was* griefing, who even said in a /t (which got copied into the harassment /petition) that he'd keep doing it to me because "it was funny" - note the difference between the intent there which *does* make that griefing.)

Because, of course, everybody is just on the edge of their seats, primed and ready in mid-combat, having a reply bind *all set* in case someone decides they want to buff - in fact, it's 100% expected. You roll anyone who can buff in any way shape or form, you get a popup on screen saying "You MUST buff everyone, all the time, or we'll shut down your account."

Wait, that's not the case at all? People tend *not* to be expecting it, but tend to be pleasantly (in that 99% of the time sort of way) surprised and grateful? Not to mention be willing to try to remember which key they have bound (if they have it bound) JUST IN CASE this very thing happens, and know it's bound on every single character, so they don't have to delay at all in the fight that's killing them to try to respond?

No, if I see someone in trouble, I'm going to help instead of ignore it because you (having just a bit of life that's quickly being taken away) decide fighting is more important than typing a reply - and, like the majority of players in the game (I'm willing to bet) don't' have any sort of macro or bind set up, and likely have no idea what they are or how to do it.

So, unless you're willing to go to each and every server and make sure the entire population (or at least a majority of it) is aware, willing, ready and able to set up binds in each character *just* for this occurrence, no, it's not reasonable to expect anyone's going to be "clever and have a ready-made reply."

You're right, you didn't. I actually lost that adding it in an edit and didn't see it get added to what I was quoting from you - chalked it up to browser or forum weirdness making it disappear. It was *supposed* to be at the end of one of my statements, not yours.

Well, given theirs is what counts...

And what I responded to quoted THIS as I was skimming through, not that little chain you brought up:
Which did not have the rest of that chain in it. Thus the response.

Very seldom do I get silence. And if you want to have a simple "thank you" be a sign of anything other than appreciation of the assistance - not "thank you, but xyz," which would supply a request not to do so again, but a simple "thank you," you are, again, asking everyone to be psychic.

Oh, and for your earlier silliness:
The GMs disagree.
Me coming up and dropping a Fortitude on you? Not griefing.
Me training mobs onto you? Griefing.
Me teleporting (team recall) you to the top of a building and dropping you off the side? Griefing.
Me following you around and KSing you repeatedly, even after you ask me to stop doing so? Harassment/Griefing.

The only - only - time you'll get agreement that buffing you is griefing is if I continue to apply the buff repeatedly (not "happen to run by one other time and hit it before recognizing you") after you've specifically requested me to stop. Not "After you've stood there and fumed about it silently." If you've made your desire to be left alone clear to someone - and no, "playing solo" is not "making it clear," no matter what you think - and that person continues doing what you've asked them not to, THEN it can fall under griefing or harassment.

But just walking by and throwing a buff? No, sunshine, that's not griefing.

So your only potential replies are "Thank you" and "F Off?" Saying "Thanks for the thought, but please don't do that again" is a polite way of asking not to be buffed again. Ever try that?

Incorrect.

SB has helped me avoid too-high mobs in the old hollows (where lvl 15s would spawn *right on top of you* as you jogged by.) SB has helped me off of caltrop patches or quicksand that would have led to defeat. SB has helped with endurance and regen where I needed it. SB has, indeed, assisted my survival - yes, even as a "drive by buff."

ATI? Fix already worked out, in the pipeline, with if not before GR.

o.O
Orange, at one point, were community reps and mods, while red were devs. That lasted... not too long. (So currently orange would be avatea, niv, and ocho, for instance.)

"Screwed with." Uh huh. Thrown such a major wrench in you may as well log out.
You:

Again, people trying to be nice. Unless you name a character "Don't Buff Me," or are in a SG named "No Buffs Please," nobody can tell. And people will *try to be nice.*

I'll post wherever I care to, thanks. And you say you understand - then demonstrate flat out that you don't. Putting a short term buff as - well, let's look at your very next "point" here -
They're removing the keyboard and mouse from your hands? Picking the mobs you can fight? No? Then they're not playing the game for you. Oh no, they've given you a touch more damage or defense, maybe upped your regen some. FAR different from "playing the game for you."

You're fully rewarded. You've lost nothing to them. They've taken nothing from you (unlike those who, say, try to "help" by KSing your mobs.) You are, in fact, able to handle *more.* Or, from your own "out of inspirations, near the end" example, able to immediately pick up and keep going, keeping in mind how that *last* fight went. You're able to alter your tactics *now,* not after you run back from the hospital or base portal.

Often, attitudes carry over. I tend to do things for other people, in real life and in games. That means crafting IOs for lowbies - not selling, but giving them away. Giving people IOs, even purples, they want. And yes, drive by buffing. I tend to see that happen with other people, as well. So you'll just have to excuse that bit of wondering.

Edit:
And no, I'm not saying you can't reply with "Thanks, but please don't do that." (See reply to whatserface higher in the thread re: player notes.) But the whole "They shouldn't give me any help! Nobody should assume I'll appreciate it!" is ridiculous - especially with the *huge* number of times where the buffer will get the opposite reaction. If someone buffs others on the way by to help people out for a year, and at the end of that year has *one* person say "Don't do that," what should they assume - nobody will ever want those buffs ever again? They should stop completely? Where's the logic there? (And no, I can't think of the last person who had a negative reaction - in *five years* of playing.)

Waste? A power that keeps stuff from running out of range (or melee running right up to you,) several of which bring fliers down... a waste?

Not to mention - skipping that first power in the secondary opens up the door to completely gutting Stalkers. "I want defense, not invisiblility" - ok, great, but now you can forget about opening with a huge crit and AOE fear, and get to see just how squishy you are...

Containment. There with Entangling (as well as stacking,) not there with Flash. You don't want more ways to set up containment (and more damage) right off the bat?

You want a challenge.

You complain the drive by buffer has reduced your challenge.

This is a way to increase your own challenge if you so choose while the buff is active.

Just pointing out your whole "You're so evil for trying to help me, you should be able to read my mind, don't you dare ever do anything nice for anybody without ten forms of signed, notarized permission for each instance" is ridiculous. A buff lasts at most four minutes. They haven't altered the entire zone. They haven't changed your character into something else. They're *trying to be nice.* Perhaps someone else did something similar for them and they're repaying the favor by doing it to others. It's not a conspiracy against you, or the OP. It's not someone trying to "ruin your fun.* It's someone doing something nice.

You *have* had people just do things for you "just because," haven't you? Give you something you'd like even when it's not a holiday or your birthday, for instance? Given your stance in this thread, I'd have to seriously wonder. As well as wonder what your reaction had been if it DID happen.

... so lead the first group into another and up your own challenge accordingly?

However, someone will then know your preferences, potentially apologize, and leave you alone... gee, sounds more useful than coming onto the forums.
We've had this really neat thing called "Player notes" and another called a "Star system" for several issues now, so... yes, actually, I will remember (and likely one-star as a "Check your note" reminder) you.

Hmm. So what's the point of complaining at the time? Sounds like there is one.
"Damn people trying to be nice!"

Then why are you complaining about someone doing something out of their own self interest?

No, no, especially not in a game centered around heroes - nope, nobody should ever just selflessly help anybody else, we should all run around with our heads down, in our own little worlds, ignoring everyone else out there. We should extend this to NPCs - 90% of the purse snatchings/muggings/etc should have the victim run up and swear at you for "interfering," for daring to help them, and cost you INF because you're such a jerk for trying to help.

I can see the ad campaign now. "City of heroes - Don't try to help me, jackass."

It's called "random kindness," or more simply "being nice." Not "ZOMG, you can't live without this obviously you require assistance!"

Sorry that doing something that *helps* most people makes your day oh so horrid. Perhaps je_saist wasn't referring to WoW, but to the many single-player games Blizzard has also made. Never have to worry about it there. Or in your own newspaper/AE missions.

/this.