LiquidX

[ QUOTE ]
First, the topic of the thread is the Isolator badge. If you have nothing constructive or (as far more typically) destructive to add to a suggestion for Isolator, say nothing. If you have an idea for a totally different issue create your own, seperate topic. The above post doesnt belong here.

[/ QUOTE ]

My post was in reply to another poster, so it fits here just fine. If you don't like it, then you shouldn't have read it.

[ QUOTE ]
And as some have stated here, forum goers only comprise a small amount of the player base. Why should the devs care what their common complaint is? (not that I ascribe to this philosophy, in fact, I abhor it. If the Devs did not care, then there would not be a forum.)

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you think that dismissing the common complaints on the forums are bunk, but then you dismiss my post because it comments about one of the common complaints on the forums? Make up your mind, please.

[ QUOTE ]
The point remains, that for some of the playerbase, Isolator is important enough to us that we will jump through any hoop, grind through whatever godawful TF or mish, kill, crush and / or destroy whatever we have to in order to get it.

We are not asking for a fundamental change to the way the game is played. No nerf nor buff to any powers. We're merely asking for a change of location. No, actually we're asking for an additional location.

There is precedent for such a change. For a long time some of the targets for kill X amount badges were woefully rare. For example, the Warrior Elite were hunted to near extinction on Talos. They were so rare that I myself ran the last mish in the alexander mini arc 87 times to fight the single warrior elite boss.

Then low and behold, along came Striga Island, where many a Warrior Elite frolicked along with Wolves and Vamps and Family bosses and sky raider skiffs. There was much rejoicing.

Speaking of Sky Raider Skiffs, they originally were only appearing in the 24-33 TV Trial. Which some people ran many times to get the required 100.

After Striga was implemented and Terra Volta then sprinkled with skiffs o plenty, were the badges gained by the TV trial alone somehow cheapened? Were people saying 'I quit, they cheapened my badge.'?

Those of us that collect badges have proven time and again that we will do whatever is needed to collect a badge.

We arent asking for the moon, simply that in some far, dusty niche of Paragon City, some contaminated escape from Outbreak. Heck, as I said before, I'd pay for the privledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it still wouldn't fit the intent of the badge. The badge is intended as an "easter egg" of sorts. And the badge even SAYS "You started your career on a high note". It wouldn't fit if gained any other way.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One of the more common complaints from people on the forums is that simply choosing new powersets is not enough to justify playing through the game. New things to do are needed. The way I see it is that (In my opinion) two important things need to be done:

1) It needs to be impossible to get every single badge on one character.

2) It needs to be impossible to do every single mission with one character. (Or be unable to experience the full scope of the mission if exemplered down/sidekicked up)

What *I* ultimately want to see are branching story arcs, with badges that can't be obtained if you have a different badge.

For example, lets say you have a Contact named... John Jacob Jinglehymer Smith, who asks you to find out what the freaks are up to. The Story arc at some point could branch with a choice. Say, either going to "interrogate" a Freakshow for information, or instead taking a coded message you located to a cryptogropher to decode it.

Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.

In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want me to tell you why that would be meaningless? That's fundamentally no different than beautiful or handsome badge.

Oh, you chose Contact X, so you have Badge X. I took Contact Y, so I have Badge Y.

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet people are so obssessed with Isolator. So technically, its only meaningless until its the badge you want.

[ QUOTE ]
And, if you can't see the storm brewing for a later date when they go back and attach some power or accolade or something to those badges and Badge X is something really useful, like, let's say a 10% damage increase, while Badge Y increases your running speed by 10%. Yep, look out, the boards would explode with ticked off people that they didn't know about the powers when they chose their path and subsequently, now feel "penalized" because they were one of the first to do the missions and choose path X.

My whole isolator argument is right in line with people like Puretone and a few others that I can't recall right now, but, simply put, nobody stayed in Outbreak when the game went live, NOBODY (or, there might have been a handful game wide), but there simply was no point, the mobs there do NOT give xp and back in those days you did NOT have the option to "skip the tutorial zone"

[/ QUOTE ]

This can be handled by simply setting the accolades so they require Badge A *OR* Badge B to unlock it.

[ QUOTE ]
I personally wouldn't want to see them datamine this and I only say that because the time and effort to find 10 people that actually killed 50 thugs that really didn't give them any xp or anything, just wouldn't be worth it for them. It should be something like a one-time mission for any toon with a CREATION date BEFORE I2 (which for me is like most of my toons). I'd put absolute faith that if they did any datamining whatsoever, they'd find that 99.9% of all toons in their databases that have the isolator badge were created after I2 went live. Gee, now I wonder why that would be?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it shouldn't be a one time mission. There should be *NO* new chances to get Isolator, even if you created your character before I2. There should be NO new chances. NONE.

[ QUOTE ]
Having it the way it is now is like a big F-You to people that participated in beta, paid for the preorder cd, paid for the CD and subsequently have had faithfully paid subscriptions for the last 2 years. So, because I was one of the first to pave the way (and, ultimately one of the few faithful from those days that have stuck around), I have to be penalized for not farming something that didn't exist at a time when skipping the tutorial wasn't an option. Umm, k.


[/ QUOTE ]

No. No its not a big "F-you" to those of us who pre-ordered. Because, y'know, funny enough I have a prestige power that those who *didn't* pre-order can't get. I got to experience the Rikti Invasion and they didn't. Hell, those of us with CoH for a year were able to get into the CoV beta without even having to pre-order CoV. So this whole "ZOMG THE FAITHFULL SUBSCRIBERS ARE BEING SCREWED!" complaint is total bunk.

Actually, considering they have been updating older missions with new tilesets (For example, the Dr. Vahz map is alot different then it was originally) they could actually start revamping storyarcs with the next issue or two.

[ QUOTE ]
Replayability? It's not often that I disagree with LiquidX, but here I have to. CoH is a roleplaying game, and that element plays strongly for me. I have a main character, and this is the character I want to accomplish things with. If I miss a badge mission or story arc somewhere in the 30s (and this has happened, to me and some friends, because the story arc system was bugged to hell), I'm supposed to reroll a brand new character and play all the way up to those missions again, just so I can get the badge? Badges damn well better do more than just look pretty if I have to go through that to collect them. "Oops, missed a badge at level 39. Better start over, I was sooooo close that time!"

That's not replayability for the simple fact that many people, myself included, won't participate in such a timesink. Not to mention that constantly watching for the next badge mission can really kill the immersion factor. Who's going to brag about the fact that they have "All the badges, spread over 6 characters!"

Sure replayability is important, but what does it matter what character I replay the game with? I've got almost more hours logged on my main character, a level 50, than my other 3 level 50s combined. THAT'S replayability. Not running through the same generic warehouse full of Skulls or Rikti or Family or Tsoo or CoT, or Malta, or Carnies, or Sky Raiders, or whatever, but actually finding things you like to do in the game (and hopefully doing them more than once), and finding the game continually interesting. If replayability is not established on the player's terms, then it's not replayability. It's just a timesink.

If you like badges, and you like to hunt badges, then you should be able to. No harm in that.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the more common complaints from people on the forums is that simply choosing new powersets is not enough to justify playing through the game. New things to do are needed. The way I see it is that (In my opinion) two important things need to be done:

1) It needs to be impossible to get every single badge on one character.

2) It needs to be impossible to do every single mission with one character. (Or be unable to experience the full scope of the mission if exemplered down/sidekicked up)

What *I* ultimately want to see are branching story arcs, with badges that can't be obtained if you have a different badge.

For example, lets say you have a Contact named... John Jacob Jinglehymer Smith, who asks you to find out what the freaks are up to. The Story arc at some point could branch with a choice. Say, either going to "interrogate" a Freakshow for information, or instead taking a coded message you located to a cryptogropher to decode it.

Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.

In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.

[ QUOTE ]
Not only did they not datamine to award it to those (granted relatively few) people that probably did fulfill the requirements, they also knew badges would be in the game and kept that knowledge to themselves. Just like they knew that the annoyingly difficult and time consuming to acquire badge, Toy Collector, was to have a gladiator attached to it. Again they told no one til after the fact. Had people known they'd get two badges instead of one they would have put in the effort to get it. Just like if people had known they'd get a badge for Infected they'd have put in the effort. By the time the first event badges were added to the game badges in general had been around for months, anyone playing during an event will obviously hear about it, I mean good lord, if you never saw a buncha snowmen walking around every zone you don't deserve the badges :-p So comparing a badge that is inaccessable beyond the tutorial and therefore was not available at all for people who joined prior to badges being added is far from similar to people who start playing in December. Obviously you can't get a badge only available in the Month of Oct, in December...however a badge available for a simple kill task? Restricted to a certain area and from a certain point in time forward? Nope...

[/ QUOTE ]

However, if I remember correctly, they also didn't tell people that the Toy Collector badge even existed until well into the debate on the forums of just how many presents it actually took to get it. In fact, almost ALL of the badge info has been discovered either by determined members of the player populace, or by people searching through the .Pigg files. The Dev's mostly acknowledged the existance of most, and settled debates on others.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That logic does not apply here Moon.

We can take our level 50, exemp down and run new content with our friends. I've done every mission in The Hollows, Striga, Croatoa, and the new PVP Zones with my main.

We didn't outlevel and miss our chance. Every other kill # badge in the game is accessible! Isolator was put into a zone we no longer have access too.

And yes, we can roll a new character and get Isolator. And I've done so with every character I've made since Issue 2.

But my two 50s, the two characters I made the first week COH was released, and my two main badge collector characters, have no way to get it. We're just asking for a way to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, I don't even like the fact that you can exempler down and gain badges that way and hope they remove the ability to do that. It hurts replayability, and it's brought about the nasty little buisness of people "selling" spots on badge missions. (Like to get the Spelunker badge)

[/ QUOTE ]

*Hi-fives LiquidX*

Right there with ya. I'd rather see the Flashback system for going back and getting stuff you missed. That would make it MUCH more interesting... that right there would hopefully settle this entire arguement.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, I'm against the Flashback system to. It would hurt replayability.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm against not having a sidekick/exemplar system. I've been to other MMO's without it. They are a social wasteland. CoX without the social aspect of playing with whomever you want because you can't do the same missions would result in level stratification .. a level elitism if you will, that is socially hard to break into until you become one of the elite.

No thanks, I'll pass.. just like I passed on those other games.

[/ QUOTE ]

You misunderstand me. I'm *not* against Sidekicking and Exemplering. I think that in itself is a good system. I'm against being able to exempler down and get badges that you missed. *thats* what I am against.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That logic does not apply here Moon.

We can take our level 50, exemp down and run new content with our friends. I've done every mission in The Hollows, Striga, Croatoa, and the new PVP Zones with my main.

We didn't outlevel and miss our chance. Every other kill # badge in the game is accessible! Isolator was put into a zone we no longer have access too.

And yes, we can roll a new character and get Isolator. And I've done so with every character I've made since Issue 2.

But my two 50s, the two characters I made the first week COH was released, and my two main badge collector characters, have no way to get it. We're just asking for a way to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, I don't even like the fact that you can exempler down and gain badges that way and hope they remove the ability to do that. It hurts replayability, and it's brought about the nasty little buisness of people "selling" spots on badge missions. (Like to get the Spelunker badge)

[/ QUOTE ]

*Hi-fives LiquidX*

Right there with ya. I'd rather see the Flashback system for going back and getting stuff you missed. That would make it MUCH more interesting... that right there would hopefully settle this entire arguement.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, I'm against the Flashback system to. It would hurt replayability.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, he paid for the privledge, as did anyone that preordered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Technically, you didn't pay for the pre-order. If you put down, say, 15 bucks at EB games, then you got the Pre-Order box. However, you also had 15 bucks deducted from the cost of the game at the time of purchase. So, your still paying the exact same amount of money you would have if you DIDN'T get the pre-order box, you just give them some of the money as a guarantee that you will actually be coming back to buy the product later.

[/ QUOTE ]

When money changes hands its called "paying". He or she plunked down his money early to have the privledge of playing early.

Now I've never pre-ordered, so if he doesnt buy the game when it ships, does he get that pre-order fee back? My guess would be no, because he's actually paying to have a guaranteed copy waiting for him at the store. There's no guarantee he'll buy it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't know about online, but all the stores I've delt with have allowed you to use your pre-order money for something else if you don't actually get the game. Hell, Hastings simply gives you a gift card upon purchasing a pre-order box, and you can then use that on something completly different if you want.

[ QUOTE ]
That logic does not apply here Moon.

We can take our level 50, exemp down and run new content with our friends. I've done every mission in The Hollows, Striga, Croatoa, and the new PVP Zones with my main.

We didn't outlevel and miss our chance. Every other kill # badge in the game is accessible! Isolator was put into a zone we no longer have access too.

And yes, we can roll a new character and get Isolator. And I've done so with every character I've made since Issue 2.

But my two 50s, the two characters I made the first week COH was released, and my two main badge collector characters, have no way to get it. We're just asking for a way to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, I don't even like the fact that you can exempler down and gain badges that way and hope they remove the ability to do that. It hurts replayability, and it's brought about the nasty little buisness of people "selling" spots on badge missions. (Like to get the Spelunker badge)

[ QUOTE ]
Excellent analogy, LiquidX.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I can say the occasional intellegint thing, as long as I resist the urges to delve into the realm of a$$hatery.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, i find that a bit unfair, considering I made my character during the 3-day headstart at the launch of CoH. But...if its not going to happen, im not going to complain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Un... fair...

You got to play the game 3 days before ther general public and you think because you didn't get a badge that's it's unfair?

<Dr. Evil voice> Riiiiight...

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, he paid for the privledge, as did anyone that preordered.


[/ QUOTE ]

Technically, you didn't pay for the pre-order. If you put down, say, 15 bucks at EB games, then you got the Pre-Order box. However, you also had 15 bucks deducted from the cost of the game at the time of purchase. So, your still paying the exact same amount of money you would have if you DIDN'T get the pre-order box, you just give them some of the money as a guarantee that you will actually be coming back to buy the product later.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, lets put it this way. Lets say one year you decide to enter a contest for 12-18 year olds. Say, a Marathon. You participate, and win, and get a nice Trophy.

Now lets say its a year later, and your 19 now and uneligible to enter. Well, it just so happens that THIS year, they have a new sponsor who offers up a nice million dollar prize. Does that mean that just because you put up the effort in last years race, when there WAS no prize, that you should be retroactively awarded a million dollars?

[/ QUOTE ]

A million dollars?? That is going to the extreme. I think that your example would be more accurate if you used a pretty blue ribbon to all the participants instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Substitute whatever prize you want. 10 bucks. A lifetime supply of Rice-a-Roni. A fancier trophy. It all works out the same.

[ QUOTE ]
Your ignoring the part about the pre-I2 heroes that DID take out 100 contaminated ... how is it fair on those characters that put in the effort and have received no reward ? A redname (can't remember who ...) has said that it can't be datamined ... I would love for you to explain why these heroes should not get another oppertunity ...


[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, lets put it this way. Lets say one year you decide to enter a contest for 12-18 year olds. Say, a Marathon. You participate, and win, and get a nice Trophy.

Now lets say its a year later, and your 19 now and uneligible to enter. Well, it just so happens that THIS year, they have a new sponsor who offers up a nice million dollar prize. Does that mean that just because you put up the effort in last years race, when there WAS no prize, that you should be retroactively awarded a million dollars?

[ QUOTE ]
I think someone said something to this degree earlier, I wanted to agree with it. How about an "old timers" badge for toons created before i2, it would be mutually exclusive with isolater.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't mind that.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone else noticed that the people who are pro-Isolator are posting their reasonings, trying to make comparisons and generally being nice, tactful, civil and well-reasoned about it? "I think the Isolator should be accessible under this and that circumstances...."

And the people who are anti-Isolator are pretty much being a pack of hostile, unreasoning, bullying, dismissive jackholes? "Just shut your mouth and suck it the hell up, n00b. Because I said so. Shut up! SHUT UP!"


[/ QUOTE ]

As stated earlier, I am against it. Now, just out of curiousity ... Where in my previous post was I being a "hostile, unreasoning, bullying and dismissive jackhole"??

Not to mention the fact that throughout the course of this joke-of-a-thread, there have been a few pro-Isolator posts that were worded as attacks or name-calling... yours being a prime example. The pro-isolators haven't been all sugar and spice either...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's just easier for people to use Celtic and I as a reason to dismiss anyone who disagrees with the "Pro-Isolators" then to accept that there might be legitimate reasons not to give an alternative way to earn it.

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone else noticed that the people who are pro-Isolator are posting their reasonings, trying to make comparisons and generally being nice, tactful, civil and well-reasoned about it? "I think the Isolator should be accessible under this and that circumstances...."

And the people who are anti-Isolator are pretty much being a pack of hostile, unreasoning, bullying, dismissive jackholes? "Just shut your mouth and suck it the hell up, n00b. Because I said so. Shut up! SHUT UP!"

I'm sure there's a comparison to be made here, too. But I'll leave that open to interpretation.

Yeah. Pretty peculiar, huh? It makes you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, if you look at my second post on page 3, you'll notice I DID post a civil reason as to why I'm against it.

[ QUOTE ]
How about this instead, they turn faultline into a +40 zone and have those contaminated guys running around in there. That zone is basically going to waste anyways and usually by then everyone will have 2 travel powers or they will have help to get around in there.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[ QUOTE ]
That goes for current stuff, too; I didn't feel up to getting the badge for killing Snaptooth five times (ugh, FIVE times on EACH character, BLECCH). But it's certainly a point of pride for those that DID stick it out and off him the requisite quintet of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell, look at those who earned the Zookeeper badge when they lowered how many Monkeys it would take to earn it. They were ready to start a lynching party.

[ QUOTE ]
Well this is just a hunch, but i would be willing to bet that most of the people who are against putting isolator in the later game already have this badge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I really love the logic behind that. "Oh my god, these people don't want this badge obtainable again! They must already have it and want to punish others to make themselves feel much more important!".

For the record, I don't have Isolator on my main, who I created back during the three day head start.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I know - the devs have no plans for including an alternate method to get isolator if you did not get it in outbreak.

[/ QUOTE ]

In other words:

If you were with us from the beginning and put your faith in us at launch this is our way of saying you're SOL. For those of you that didn't have faith in us and hesitated til badges were created, you're in luck.

Thanks guys...

[/ QUOTE ]

You know what? They should take the damn badge out of the game and just be done with it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please, if you disagree with someone - state your opinion and leave it at that. No need to bash people for their thoughts/ideas. Some people want X - others don't. Agree to disagree. Thanks.


[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. The venom in this thread is really disturbing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking about bottling it and selling it as a cure all elixer. I'll call it "Dr. LiquidX's Heal-All juice".

[/ QUOTE ]

Why ain't my name on that bottle? I was the first to go all hostile-like.

[/ QUOTE ]

People get kinda edgy when they see a tombstone on a bottle of stuff.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please, if you disagree with someone - state your opinion and leave it at that. No need to bash people for their thoughts/ideas. Some people want X - others don't. Agree to disagree. Thanks.


[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. The venom in this thread is really disturbing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking about bottling it and selling it as a cure all elixer. I'll call it "Dr. LiquidX's Heal-All juice". Maybe I can get that Flim-Flam kid to help me out...

[ QUOTE ]
As far as I know - the devs have no plans for including an alternate method to get isolator if you did not get it in outbreak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Usually you guys are articulate, thoughtful and when you do deliver and opposing opinion or 'flame' someone it is artful, tasteful and clever. I was beginning to wonder if someone had hijacked your accounts. Seriously, you guys ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, lets put it this way...

I work a mind numbing, soul sucking job in the resteraunt buisness. I've been doing it for Nine Years now, and before that I used to work retail. So, I hear stuff like "Well, I'm a paying customer!" or "Why should I have to pay for <Insert item here>" or "I've been a loyal customer for <insert time here> so you should give me <list unreasonable demands here>" ALL THE DAMN TIME. I get sick of listening to ungrateful people whining all damn day.

So, I'm stressed out, and tired of hearing the same excuses all the damn time. It's getting on my last nerve.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep and I worked in the social services field for 6+ years, and before that in retail/customer service for over 10 years. Sometimes the customer is right though, and sometimes you want to shove them through the nearest brick wall and watch them come out the other side as processed cheese.

Gotta remember this is a suggestion area, people can suggest anything they want - doesn't mean anyone has to listen.

And yeah right about now I'm sure a new target has been acquired.

Hang on a sec luv while I don my silver suit. Ok vent away! I want my witty LiquidX back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont worry Sell, I'm not about to rip into you or anything. You've been a peach, as always. Its Shigmiya with his snotty reply to Celtic and Shadow_Song with his snotty little reply to me, my growing hatred for the "I should get whatever I want because I'm a paying customer" mentality that is becoming more and more prevalent, and various issues IRL (That I'd prefer not to talk about here) that just really set me off.

And also my appologies to the OP. Do I disagree with his idea? Yes, I do. But I shouldn't have let my anger with Shigmiya and Shadow_Songs posts get the best of me.

[ QUOTE ]
Usually you guys are articulate, thoughtful and when you do deliver and opposing opinion or 'flame' someone it is artful, tasteful and clever. I was beginning to wonder if someone had hijacked your accounts. Seriously, you guys ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, lets put it this way...

I work a mind numbing, soul sucking job in the resteraunt buisness. I've been doing it for Nine Years now, and before that I used to work retail. So, I hear stuff like "Well, I'm a paying customer!" or "Why should I have to pay for <Insert item here>" or "I've been a loyal customer for <insert time here> so you should give me <list unreasonable demands here>" ALL THE DAMN TIME. I get sick of listening to ungrateful people whining all damn day.

So, I'm stressed out, and tired of hearing the same excuses all the damn time. It's getting on my last nerve.