LiquidX

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Let's see, Positron said that if they added the ability to get the badge after leaving Outbreak it would be extremely hard to get. Many players challenged Positron that he could never develop something so hard that it would discourage them from doing it.

Of course what if the challenge is not game related. What could be harder than getting everyone to agree on one stance in the forums about the badge?

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They could hook the Isolator badge into another Valentines Day style promotion.

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I would only post a couple questions to those who didn't get the badge in Outbreak (myself included):

1) Did you kill 100 Contaminated while you were there?

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I did. This was during the three day head start, and I thought there might be something hidden in outbreak. So I wasted quite a bit of time there,.


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2) Did you read up on all the content that was available in the game prior to going through Outbreak?

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I did not. I prefer being suprised, and you can't be suprised if you already know about everything in advance.

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Look, can someone just call someone else a Nazi on this thread and let it die? You've all stated your arguments and have drawn the skirmish lines that neither side is going to cross. No-one is going to convince LiquidX that the principle of being able to get badges you missed is a good thing, just like no-one is going to convince Zubeen... Zubenelgenaki... Zebalski... that guy that he shouldn't be able to get Isolator because he missed it the first time.

Right now you are just adding to postcounts. Hopefully Positron is aware of what he's caused in this thread.

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Actually, people have gotten me to change my mind about things before. Such as Puretones suggestion in the last Isolator thread about adding a different description to Isolator if it WAS changed so you can get it later on. I liked that idea.

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yes you said when new content is added to the game you can go back. new content was added to the tutorial which last time i checked is part of the game. you cannot go back and get it. hence your statement isnt always true which is the point im trying to make.

i did indeed read the entire thread. you want to get the isolator badge on a toon that outleveled it before it was added. as i have said several times, you cant so roll another toon.

reading comprehension is a pain, huh?

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Actually, in the case of Outbreak, the addition of Flower Knight in the tutorial zone would count as new content.

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Correct it was. And my character went through it. Problem is that the badge was not ceated.

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Maybe it's because I'm sick and not thinking that clearly at the moment, but what?

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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The difference to me is that those other badges were especially created for each of those events. This is not a limited event like Halloween or the Winter Lord. Isolator is a permanent badge.

I realize why he does not have the badge. I said in my post.

--Rad

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However, Isolator was specifically created for Outbreak.

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So aparently you've never seen Beefcake's sig?!? Nor Burnin_Ups?

Beefcakes:

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Proud Member & Captain of Jagged Legion
Pinnacle's Leading Badge Holder for CoH and CoV

Beef Cake - 318 Badges
Day Walker - 209 Badges

Global Handle: @Beef Cake


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Burnin_Ups...
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Hero's
Burnin Up 50 F/F Tank 315 Badges (#1 on Infinity for /#5 overall in COH)
Urban War Hero 48 AR/DEV
Mr. Mindbender 50 ILL/RAD
Representative 28 PB
Villain's
Burnin Fury 40 F/F Brute 196 Badges (Bug Hunter)
The Bone Grinder 38 N/D MM
Chargin Up 28 E/E Stalker

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Thats just to name 2.... of which Beefcake posted only like 3 posts above yours jeez... can you read? lmao

As stated by SherrickM... Certain badges have a time-line requriement. If your toon was created before the event of said badge, tough. Its no different than creating a toon after an event and then expecting that badge to mysteriously show up, just cause. Nothing stopped these individuals from creating a new toon (Now or several issues ago) and obtain Isolator. I also agree with Memphis_Bill that their should be a badge that simply says " your toon predates badges ", but as he pointed out, others would complain about this as well.


No, you missed the point.

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But that's only, what, two people? And what two people do does not invalidate the argument of the whole group.

No what?

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I'm starting to wonder who in this thread has a Grandmother running a Home Owners Association. The genetic verbose is very apparent!

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Well, I guess it would be possible to be my grandmother, if the person painting his house blue was living next to a cemetary. But how many Cul-De-Sacs have their very own cemetary?

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As for WHY I don't like the idea for Flashback, I explained it in another thread but I'll explain it again here... I don't like the idea of people being able to do "everything" with one character. You shouldn't be able to get all the badges, see all the storylines, and all that.

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OK, so then here we come to the crux of the matter. The apparent reason why you are so vocal in all the threads about the Isolator badge. Why you are such a nay-sayer on this issue.

You want to dictate to me (and everyone else) how to play the game.

I personally want my one main character to experience all the content. If he does so (now listen carefully here)… THIS DOES NOT HURT YOU IN ANY WAY! If you don’t want one of your characters to do everything, get every badge, etc., then DON’T do that with YOUR characters! But it is not your place to dictate what is “best” for everyone else in the game or how they play it. And don't tell me that I "shouldn't" do something with Zube.

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I haven't been "dictating" anything. I gave my opinions for why I don't like the idea of Isolator, and then Flashback when asked. (And keep in mind, what you quoted was about why I don't like the idea of *FLASHBACK*. I have already stated other reasons why I am against Isolator). But I gave my opinions. Others gave theirs. I disagreed with most of them. They disagreed with mind. But I am no more "Dictating" how things should be run then they are by making THEIR suggestions.

So, if I'm guilty of dictating things by disagreeing with you, then your just as guilty of trying to dictate things by disagreeing with *me*.

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I once lived in a little cul-de-sac. One day one of our neighbors decided to paint his house blue. None of the other houses were blue, and this really upset a little old lady living next door. She made a HUGE pest of herself demanding that our neighbor stop painting his house in this “offensive” color. When he told her to mind her own business, she went house to house trying to get everyone else to pressure him to stop. Of course, this being a free country (at least it was back then), she had no success.

Now this woman clearly thought that she was the arbiter of what was “correct” and “right” in the area. She even had a tiny justification, because she had to look at the blue house every day. But you, sir, do not even have that. My having all the badges, doing all the task forces, experiencing all the content, does NOT affect you in any way! You don’t have to look at my badges, and you cannot see my souvenirs. You don’t even have any way of knowing how many alts I have, unless I tell you.

If you want replayability, then replay. Your choice. If collecting badges keeps me playing, that’s my choice.

Granted, I understand that you are expressing an opinion about the game. I get that. But your opinion has, as its foundation, the idea that you get to decide what is “good” for other players and/or the game as a whole. And that is completely unreasonable.

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And it would seem to me that your decision that I cannot state my opinion just because you disagree with it is just as unreasonable as you seem to think I am being.

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And what about those of us who *DON'T* want Isolator granted outside of the tutorial? We pay the same monthly fee as you do, after all.


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Setting all the isolator-specific discussion aside for the moment, allow me to plead that everyone be very very careful with this kind of argument. I can understand that some people who get a not-necessarily-unfair advantage from certain rules want to see those rules enforced on everyone. But please don't get too caught up with the idea that paying a monthly fee entitles one to judge over what other players want to do with their monthly fees, especially over relatively trivial things like a simple hunting badge.

It's not an invalid argument, but can become an inflammatory argument if not kept toned down. Perhaps focussing on what you have and want to get for yourself is better (well, more cooperative anyway) than focussing on what other people want that you want denied them.

Maybe a good compromise would be to allow a post-tutorial isolator, but with a slightly-altered name (same badge though). That way, older badge hunters get a fairer chance at a full set, but newer badge hunters still keep a distinction on their badge.

A random thought occurs to me: I'm really glad that the devs took extra thought to avoid attaching isolator to accolades or any value more than as a basic badge. Tensions would escalate pretty fast if, say, isolator gave a gladiator or was a requirement for Eye of the Magus.

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Believe me goldbricker, I hate the argument "Well, I pay the monthly fee!" to justify things. I only use it as a counter-argument to those who use it first.

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Flashback will stay dead and buried, as it was a bad idea anyways.

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The current exemplar system is about 90% of what Flashback was originally intended to be (as per statements by Positron in another thread). “Dead and buried.” Yup.

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You left out the "Hopefully". And as stated, I'm not 100% happy with the Exemplar system itself. (I still wish they would fix it so you couldn't get badges from missions that are not your own)

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As far as being a "bad idea" is concerned, flashbacks are very common in the comic book world. (As I stated just a page or two ago and you just blew off with some weird Hawkman reference.) As such an integral part of the genre on which this game is based, I believe that flashbacks belong in the game. I think that you have the burden of proof to explain why it is such a “bad idea” to have an important and ubiquitous comic book staple in a comic book inspired game.

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I didn't "Blow it off". I was pointing out that using "flashbacks" too much can be *bad* for comic book characters. Y'know, like Hawkman, who is considered the poster boy for horrible retconn jobs. Now, admittedly, I could have phrased it better then I did. But I wasn't blowing you off. (Not intentionally, anyways)

As for WHY I don't like the idea for Flashback, I explained it in another thread but I'll explain it again here... I don't like the idea of people being able to do "everything" with one character. You shouldn't be able to get all the badges, see all the storylines, and all that. It damages replayability, and (To me at least) replayability is more important in the long run, especially for CoH/V where Alts are more popular then in, say, Everquest 2.

Now the Exemplar system as it *is*, is acceptable to me. While I *don't* like the fact you can use it collect badges you missed and all that, on the other hand, you also can't see all the storylines like if it was your mission/Story Arc/ect. So, it's something I'm willing to compromise on. (And keep in mind, when I say compromise, I mean I won't [censored] about it).

Don't forget changes to the Martial Arts animation times, as well as completly changing Storm Kick. (And thank god for that!)

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The Flashback System has been canned from what I recall. The Devs have a policy of not really encouraging every character to do EVERYTHING in the game. That's why there are so many different ATs and powersets.

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Hell, the Dev's came right out and stated that no character was intended to have every single badge. And hopefully, Flashback will stay dead and buried, as it was a bad idea anyways.

Sadly, Kendal *ISN'T* kidding. I still remember that little firestorm of controversy well.

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Well congratz! Liquid X, Mna_grok, and others. I just realised you run the game! Is there anything we lowly servants can do for you?

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Actually, yes. I demand...

A WILD CHERRY PEPSI!

...And some pie. Mmmm... Pie...

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No, have any of you tards read the entire post? I'm the one who started this thread. I have been asking the Dev's on this. I will keep playing. I did NOT ask your opinion. I just feel that this is something I feel strongly about, and others agree.

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And we feel just as strongly as you do, and have every right to voice our opinions on the matter. But apparently, you seem to think its only okay for a person to voice their opinion if its the same as yours.

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I dont see what the big deal is here. I dont understand why you guys run up here screaming NO! I will never have as many badges as Beef will, I do not have celebrant. I was not here. I do not have the halloween badges. I was not here. I dont have winter lord either. I will never ask for them either. This entire time I have never wanted to be given the badge. I just want to earn it.

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And I don't understand why you have so much trouble understanding OUR position on the matter.

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Also all that techno blah blah you guys keep shoveling at us, really they cant do it? They cant make such a drastic game change? Fine. Take my toon and change her back to lvl 1, put her back in outbreak, take everything off of her excapt my badges. Can they do that? They sure could. If they cant do that, they need to go back to programming school.

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They COULD do it, but there are much better uses for the time and resources. (Trenchcoats. Wings. New Powersets. Revamping the existing Zones. New Costume parts)

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If I want to send my toon back to lvl 1 why do you even have an opinion about it? Did you pay my monthly fee? Did you put money into my computer so the game would run? Last time I checked no you didn't. I know many people that would happily do this, this would give them much pleasure and loads of fun playing there toons all over again and NC Soft would get more money off of us. Whats so wrong with that request? I feel that your input on the matter isnt relevant. If you dont want to do then so be it. But we do. People make requests all the time, this one is no different. In no way, shape or form are we asking to be given anything. We would like the chance to do it all over again.

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And our request is that the Dev's DON'T do this. Our opinions are just as valid as yours. And, considering we pay the same monthly fee and you sure as hell didn't build MY computer or pay MY monthly fee, we are just as justified in making ourselves heard, too.

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Why are we even arguing over this? If we get this badge are you going to be soooo furious that you smash your PC or that you'd even quit playing? Does it change anything in your little world? Yeah, I thought not.

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If you don't get this badge, are you going to be soooo furious that you would smash your PC or that you would quit playing? Does it change anything in your little world? Yeah, I thought not.

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Well, fair enough, I guess. I don’t see why that should matter so much to you, but in all fairness some people don’t see why not having Isolator on Zube should bother me. To each his own.

But this is really a minor issue placed next to the main point. Many (most?) of us who have pre-I2 characters feel it is unfair to prevent us from getting this badge. NO OTHER badge is like Isolator, because every other badge could be obtained by any character in existence at the time the badge was created.

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But that doesen't mean more badges in the future won't be like Isolator... Meaning, if you miss it, you miss it. And changing Isolator *now* would compromise future additions. Because at that point, Cryptic would have set up a precedent... And the more its done, the harder it becomes to justify saying "No", simply on the basis that they would have already done it in the past.

And what happens if they add new content to Outbreak in the future, that's soley dependant on fullfilling certain tasks in Outbreak? Such as adding a souvenier for completing the missions? What then? Should they not add it because they would risk offending us "Loyal Customers" if for some technical reason they couldn't simply grant it to us? Should they just grant it to anyone regardless of what the existing players have done? Where does it end? It is better the line be drawn now.

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The flashback system would have easily taken care of your text objection, also. The flashback is such a staple in the comic book medium that I hardly need to give examples. A writer wants to tell a story about something the Hero did “back in the day,” so he just does it. This story was not part of the character’s history before, but now it is.

FADE UP:
Captain O’Malley is retiring from the PCPD after 30 long and event-filled years on the force. At his retirement dinner, someone asks him, “Hey Brian, what one thing do you remember most about your first year on the force?”

“Well, son, I will never forget the time that Zubenelgenubi almost single-handedly stopped an outbreak of contaminated thugs from overrunning the streets of the 9th District. I was just a beat cop then, two weeks out of the Academy. I’d been assigned to guard the perimeter, little more than a human police drone. Things were looking pretty dicey, when all of a sudden here comes Zube. He was as green as a pine tree in April, but you should have seen the way he hopped that fence and tore into those thugs. Why, it seems like only yesterday…”
CUE MUSIC AND THE WIGGLY LINES

See what I mean? It’s pretty easy to imagine (excuse me, I mean “role play”) the situation in such a way as to remove your objection. As a matter of fact, Zube DID arrest over 100 contaminated thugs! It’s just that the writer of my “first issue” glossed over that part in order to move the narrative along!

And now I want my badge! I want it! I want it! It’s unfair that the devs won’t give it to me!

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On the other hand, careless overuse of flashbacks and retconning is often considered the trademark of a bad writer. *Cough* Hawkman! *Cough*

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It is only a matter of opinion (yours) that these are "satisfactory justifications." Seriously now, you object to the badge text becoming incorrect??

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Yes. Yes I do. Hell, do you know how much it bugs me that my Hero has Agent Provocateur when the text clearly doesen't fit? The only thing that's kept me from asking a GM to remove it is that there are more important for them to be doing then removing a badge.

I also hate the Gladiator badges on the hero side too, and wish they would either get rid of them, change the descriptions of them, or create new ones.

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[1) The badge description states: "You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone. ". Allowing it to be gained anywhere else completly destroys the intent of this badge, and would be totally contradictory to what the badge states.

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And I still think a level 50 Villain who does the "go-good" TF and becomes a level 1 hero would qualify to be awarded the same Isolator badge... it is after all the beginning of his career as a Hero.

And by extension, a level 50 Hero, who does the "go-bad" TF and becomes a level 1 Villain could get Jailbird, do 50 levels as a Villain, do the "go-good" TF, become a level 1 hero again and end up in Outbreak able to earn the exact same Isolator badge.

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Well, assuming that it would actually work like that when they implement heroes turning to villains and villains turning to heroes... I certainly wouldn't be against it.

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LiquidX, you seem to fail to understand the whole plot of Outbreak, Heroes stop it then villains sneak over and keep it going. Those of us from Issue Zero to Issue 2 were never data mined for this badge although we started our careers from it, hell even the Outbreak contacts were different back then. When I went though it, we had the entire Outbreak Zone clean as a whistle and waiting for spawns because so many heroes were in the zone beating the crap out of them [only time I've seen 6 atlas parks], I'd say we earned it [or in this case another chance at it even if time travel is involved].

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I understand just fine, and I disagree with it. I was around long before Coyotee was put into outbreak. Hell, I had also defeated 100 contaminated, and if they HAD Datamined, I would have the badge. But they didn't, and I can understand their reasonings why they didnt.

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Nor have you been able to justify why you should be able to earn this badge outside of Isolator, other then "I want it! I want it! It's unfair if its not given to me!".

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Nor have you been able to justify why you want to deny pre-I2 characters this badge, other than “I don’t want you to have it! I don’t want you to have it! It’s unfair if the devs give it to you!”

Seriously, lose the ad homonims . They only undercut your position, rather than support it.

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Actually, I believe I provided specific and satisfactory justifications in my second post on this page alone.

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It's my opinion that getting it should be a non-issue. It shouldn't be a hard badge to get - create it as a Portal Corp mission with a special contact, send people to an instanced version of Outbreak at combat level 1 and let them kill 100 Contaminated. Problem solved.

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Agreed. It's a simple solution that would end the Isolator dilemma once and for all. If that's not challenging enough for Positron, ramp up the count to 333, 500, or even 1,000. Every Pre-Issue 2 hero (even some of you ANTI-ISOLATORS) would be lined up at that contact as soon as it went live.

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As long as they changed the text of the badge. Otherwise, it still wouldn't fit.

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Now I can understand why people would want to get the Isolator badge, but I don't get how people can feel so strongly about pre-I2s NOT getting a chance for the badge. I mean seriously, what's the harm? It doesn't go towards an accolade, so it has no real effect on gameplay. It's just a little, shiney, and ultimately useless badge.

I say find all the pre-I2 characters and give them a city hall mission. No big deal.

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The reasons for some of us Anti-Isolators boil down into this:

1) The badge description states: "You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone. ". Allowing it to be gained anywhere else completly destroys the intent of this badge, and would be totally contradictory to what the badge states.

2) It destroys the "special"-ness of the badge. Just like it would destroy the specialness of the Celebrant badge, the holiday badges, or the Prestige Powers if they allowed anyone to get them whenever they wanted. Hell, Zookeeper used to mean something until they lowered the number of Rikti monkeys for it.

3) It's the principle of the matter.