LiquidX

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After listening to Jester's Court tonight, I'm pretty sure that Terminotaur got all the credit for creating this thread (not that he didn't add a LOT of info to it). Grats Terminotaur

I'm not a vain man, but I'm kinda bummed out now
<------ has been served

Edit: I blame Pilcrow, a Forum Cartel member who somehow couldn't find the OP

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I find blaming Pilcrow for anything works wonders.

...But you know, I would have loved to go to any of the Meet & Greets, but CuppaJo had a restraining order put on me after that incident with the car battery, Positron, 65 tons of crispy wonton noodles, and duct tape.

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Also, you can only get the badge by doing the missions yourself. joining someone else for them will not award it.

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Hallelujah. Now if only they will fix up most of the other mission badges like that, I'll be happy.

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You mean like the "War Wall Defender" badge that gets rewarded regadless of whether you succeed or fail?

Just glad they got the "Time spent in BB/ Siren's/ Warburg" badges fixed. No more spending 5 consecutive hours in a zone

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No, I mean, as in fixing other mission badges (Like the Save the Fortuneteller mission) so you can't get the badge by joining their mission. It has to be YOUR mission.

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Strongly disagree, particularly as many are required for accolades and (unless you are carefully following the third party sites, unlikely for a new player) there's nothing to suggest that either this contact has something special or this mission is unusually important.

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Except the Accolades don't provide a huge enough bonus to be required, and what's the point of playing if you already know everything?

Man, the internet has spoiled people...

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Actually, I'm talking about individualizing through moral choices made during the course of gameplay. Example:

Lets say a Story Arc in City of Heroes involves you having to track down a Hero who has suddendly taken to a life of crime. So, as the story arc goes on, you learn why: His daughter got deathly ill, and the only ones who could cure her was the villain group he was working for. So, you would have a choice: Let him escape, because his intents are noble, or arrest him, because no matter what his intents are, he was still breaking the law.

Letting him go would result in the "Angel of Mercy" badge.

Arresting him would get you the "Letter of the Law" badge.

Obviously, it wouldn't make sense to allow access to BOTH badges. And this would help personalize your character, by showing what moral decisions he/she/it has had to make. Plus, each badge could "unlock" a different contact, allowing story arcs showing the consequences of your decisions.

For example, if you let him go, the villains would now have access to the stuff to build a doomsday style weapon that threatens everyone in the city, with you having to stop it.

But if you arrested him, you would have to deal with him breaking out of jail and seeking revenge (As you essentially sacraficed his kid).

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Now I wouldnt be against something like this with new story arcs and such. But doing it for past missions and then changing it for players would cover 2 areas that I have to disagree with.

1. The cost. As I stated above I would rather have the money go into new zones, or zone revamps (The reconstruction of 2 of our hazard zones come to mind) and powersets then to go back and change how the past badge system works.

2. Your messing with characters badges, that's going to get you ill will from the playerbase, and Cryptic doesnt need any more ill will from those who are still with the game. Even if it swaps out one badge for another (Say, a new badge for failing the warwall mission instead of winning it) your still going to alter people characters. And all I have to do it point to any of the many flame wars on the forums to show that people do not like change...Even if it is neccessary and inevitable in a MMO. Plus, your always gonna have a small percentage whining that they want BOTH badges. If there's something that can be cried about, it will be.

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I'm not saying do it with *every* badge, or removing badges that have already been awarded. Hell, I'd be against it if it ment having to remove badges that a player had already earned. However, in the long run I think it would benefit the game, instead of hurt it.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Liquid. I have to greatly dissagree with you here. Most people have 1 character they dedicate to badge collecting. Now replay value aside. Your saying that those people should not be able to earn badges outside of missions that our theirs?! Forget that.

There is nothing wrong with the replay value of the game. Playing this game thru as a scrapper is vastly different then playing it thru as a blaster. /End Hijack

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Yes, I am saying that. Especially since then the Dev's would be able to implement Badges where you could only earn one or the other, thus helping individualize the different characters by showcasing what paths they have taken through "life".

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Couple problems with that. 1. Are you going to individualize by archtype, or by origin? And then when you've made that choice, then you better darn well make sure that one AT or origin has the exact same as another, because you KNOW someone is going to complain that magic origins have more badges then mutants, or that blasters have more badges then scrappers do. And then there's the factor that we're going to have to dedicate devs and support to plan this, then impliment it, and test it. Then send it to the test server. That costs money. I'm sorry, but I'd rather have them save that money for a new zone, zone revamp, or new missions/story arcs or even for new powersets.

Leave it to the playerbase to make this distinction in their own minds about their characters, that's one of the reason the biography feature is there in the first place. Also there's wonderful sites like Crey Industries Threat Database and the CoV version of that, whatever it is.

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Actually, I'm talking about individualizing through moral choices made during the course of gameplay. Example:

Lets say a Story Arc in City of Heroes involves you having to track down a Hero who has suddendly taken to a life of crime. So, as the story arc goes on, you learn why: His daughter got deathly ill, and the only ones who could cure her was the villain group he was working for. So, you would have a choice: Let him escape, because his intents are noble, or arrest him, because no matter what his intents are, he was still breaking the law.

Letting him go would result in the "Angel of Mercy" badge.

Arresting him would get you the "Letter of the Law" badge.

Obviously, it wouldn't make sense to allow access to BOTH badges. And this would help personalize your character, by showing what moral decisions he/she/it has had to make. Plus, each badge could "unlock" a different contact, allowing story arcs showing the consequences of your decisions.

For example, if you let him go, the villains would now have access to the stuff to build a doomsday style weapon that threatens everyone in the city, with you having to stop it.

But if you arrested him, you would have to deal with him breaking out of jail and seeking revenge (As you essentially sacraficed his kid).

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Liquid. I have to greatly dissagree with you here. Most people have 1 character they dedicate to badge collecting. Now replay value aside. Your saying that those people should not be able to earn badges outside of missions that our theirs?! Forget that.

There is nothing wrong with the replay value of the game. Playing this game thru as a scrapper is vastly different then playing it thru as a blaster. /End Hijack

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Yes, I am saying that. Especially since then the Dev's would be able to implement Badges where you could only earn one or the other, thus helping individualize the different characters by showcasing what paths they have taken through "life".

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And fixing it so you can't earn badges through missions that are not your own is a good way to fix that.

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Then you would have to remove the mission badges from Accolade requirements.

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no you wouldn't. They would be just fine remaining as accolade requirements.

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Because I am a firm believer in the need for multiple playthroughs to see/achieve everything. I don't agree with being able to earn all the badges/fully experience every mission on a single playthrough. And fixing it so you can't earn badges through missions that are not your own is a good way to fix that.

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And a good way to piss off a great many people...

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Meh, people are going to be pissed no matter what happens.

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Also, you can only get the badge by doing the missions yourself. joining someone else for them will not award it.

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Hallelujah. Now if only they will fix up most of the other mission badges like that, I'll be happy.

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You're a harsh man, LiquidX.

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*Cues the "Your a mean one, Mr. Grinch" song*

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I do believe Tisirin is male though.

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Well, yeah, Tisirin is a male.

...Now.

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Also, you can only get the badge by doing the missions yourself. joining someone else for them will not award it.

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Hallelujah. Now if only they will fix up most of the other mission badges like that, I'll be happy.

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You mean like the "War Wall Defender" badge that gets rewarded regadless of whether you succeed or fail?

Just glad they got the "Time spent in BB/ Siren's/ Warburg" badges fixed. No more spending 5 consecutive hours in a zone

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No, I mean, as in fixing other mission badges (Like the Save the Fortuneteller mission) so you can't get the badge by joining their mission. It has to be YOUR mission.

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Why is this bad? Sometimes you just... miss the mission or whatever on a toon, it happens. Why is it such a bad thing to be able to join someone else to get the badge that you missed while doing other things?

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Because I am a firm believer in the need for multiple playthroughs to see/achieve everything. I don't agree with being able to earn all the badges/fully experience every mission on a single playthrough. And fixing it so you can't earn badges through missions that are not your own is a good way to fix that.

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Also...

I predict a "Trenchcoats at 3 months?!" frenzy.

And am I the only one amused by the fact that Pann had red devil eyes in his picture, and looked nothing like Peter Pan?

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Actually Pann is the lady on the right Sorry for not being specific.

Edit: did I just blow your mind?

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Not really, but I do find it amusing that most of NCSofts community coordinators seem to be women.

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Also, you can only get the badge by doing the missions yourself. joining someone else for them will not award it.

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Hallelujah. Now if only they will fix up most of the other mission badges like that, I'll be happy.

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You mean like the "War Wall Defender" badge that gets rewarded regadless of whether you succeed or fail?

Just glad they got the "Time spent in BB/ Siren's/ Warburg" badges fixed. No more spending 5 consecutive hours in a zone

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No, I mean, as in fixing other mission badges (Like the Save the Fortuneteller mission) so you can't get the badge by joining their mission. It has to be YOUR mission.

Also...

I predict a "Trenchcoats at 3 months?!" frenzy.

And am I the only one amused by the fact that Pann had red devil eyes in his picture, and looked nothing like Peter Pan?

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Also, you can only get the badge by doing the missions yourself. joining someone else for them will not award it.

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Hallelujah. Now if only they will fix up most of the other mission badges like that, I'll be happy.

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It astounds me that people here in both the pro and anti Isolator camps continue to sling arrows at each other over this when it's painfully clear that A) the Devs allowed the pre-I2 toon Isolator problem to happen, B) the Devs let the problem linger and pretended it didn't exist then finally C) in a tacit admittal of the mistake lowered themselves enough to twitch their pinkies on their mice to click a few GUI buttons calling that a day.

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Adding a Contaminated spawn to RV is not a "tacit admission to a mistake". No matter how many times you try to say that, Lothic, it won't make it true. There was *nothing* wrong with Isolator, nor how it was placed in the first place.

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Does no one else see that that Devs have laughed at us -all- over this? No one here really got what they wanted, and we all got to see how they are willing to patronizingly handle the concerns of its player base. People with valid arguments for why badges shouldn't be tinkered with as well as the toon rerollers got brushed aside, and people who pleaded for so long for a sensible solution for the original Isolator oversight got slapped with one of the most insanely simpleminded yet diabolical schemes one could have imagined for this game. Basically no one -won- anything here...

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Really? I don't see the Dev's laughing at anyone over this, and this is another example of you blowing things way out of proportion. And people DID get what they wanted... People like Beef_Cake got their chance at Isolator, which they *ASKED* for. (And stated that they didn't care HOW hard it was).

And as one of the people who didn't want an alternative for Isolator made available, I don't feel like my concerns were "Brushed aside". Nor do I feel like I "lost", as this was never a contest. It was a change based on customer feedback, and while I disagree with it, I can accept it, nor am I gonna Vileify the dev's for it.

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[because I have a feeling that just about everyone who is "Anti Isolator" is gonna go after the badge too

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I wont be. For one, it's way too annoying for my tastes (Which is also why I don't have the Task Force badges. I don't have the time, effort, or willingness to put up with it). And too, they didn't change the text for the second chance method, so it would bug the hell out of me.

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The devs didn't expect people to reroll because they didn't expect people to care about badges as much as people do. Why people keep trying to apply some kind of "motive" or "mistake" to the devs kill me, when it is not rooted in any kind of reality other than the egocentric "I want Isolator so I'm right by definition" one.

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Which is just as egocentric as the position held by the people who didn't want Isolator outside of OUtbreak and hold their PoV as reality.

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Not so much. Those who don't want Isolator outwith Outbreak aren't asking the devs to change something. Each and every person who is demanding Isolator after they leave the Tutorial area is, in effect, demanding that the devs change the game to suit only a minority of people.

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I am looking at it at an even more basic level than that. Each side, for whatever reasons they feel is appropriate, believes that they are in the right and that they deserve to have their point of view listened to.

Each side is being egotistical in that if their reality is made eal, the other side is denied theirs. Unfortunately, that is the way that things go. Somoe people will always be disappointed.

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The one thing I dont get is this, its not rly affecting everyone, why should they care if other ppl get the badge?

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From what I can gather from all the nonsense is only one LEGIT concern. A belief that implementing a system to allow for people to get it AFTER outbreak will take resources from other, more important things.

Everything else has been pissing contests, "my oppinion is more important than your's and I'm going to prove it" contests, and just useless childish ranting.

They're so worried about proving each other wrong and bashing each other it'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Anyway, just know it's been going on a long time and you'd think a group of mature, rational adults would have gotten the clue a long time ago that there are three camps (pro/anti/could give a damn either way) and no one is going to convince the other camp of a damned thing so they mine-as-well go their own way but no, they'd rather sit here insulting each other and arguing about why they're right and the other side is wrong.

Next pointless topic that turns normal, resonable adults into a bunch of 'frothing at the mouth idiots', abortion!

::snicker::

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You know... For a discussion that doesen't matter, BallLightning sure does spend alot of his time in it, doesen't he?

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Even though the conversation's moved past this LiquidX, I don't see "to get a badge" tacked on after those phrases...

Let's drop the Easter Egg line... it's as useless and irreconcilable as the rest of this thread at this point.

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It may not have "to get a badge" in big bold words, but it's pretty obvious that a badge is what you are going to get by doing what it says.

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Seriously, why do you think they ever even bothered offering RV Isolator to us at all? Was it because they -didn't- make a mistake with it?

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Because enough people [censored] about it they decided it wasn't worth the continued [censored] and moaning about it. In essence, it's like how a manager at a store will give a person store credit just to get them to shut the hell up and stop making a scene, despite the fact the store has done nothing wrong with their return policy. (Such as the person wanting to return a year old computer that the store no longer sells, with no reciept, and expecting a refund of full price for it)

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So by your logic a vast subset of badges are Easter Eggs? (Easter Egg = badge with no progress bar or entry in the badge tab?) Define them how you will... but to be clear I don't consider any badge in this game to be an Easter Egg and thus don't think any of them are justified to be limited by location based on 'Easter Egg ness'.

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You don't consider them to be such. However, until such times as your personal opinion becomes the "majority" view through the game, I also will consider that several badges are considered Easter Eggs. Isolator being a major one. You have absolutely no right to earn this badge - at least be grateful you are given the opportunity to get it after such times as you should.

Suck it up. If you don't like it, I hear that WoW is always looking for new whiners.

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...Except Lothic isn't a Whiner. I may disagree with her assertions that the Dev's are stupid, or that they mishandled things, but she isn't Whiner.

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Now you’re finally starting to catch on LiquidX – I knew you were a reasonably bright person. Maybe had the Devs not been stupid enough to implement a badge that was only earnable in a place that the current playerbase at the start of I2 couldn’t even get to we wouldn’t even have had an Isolator problem in the first place…

Nothing was set in stone that -required- Isolator to be limited to Outbreak in the beginning or ever for that matter as RV Isolator has proven...

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Except for the fact that it was intended as an easter egg, as stated before. This isn't a case of the Dev's being stupid, or lack of foresight, or anything else... This is a case of certain people blowing the whole thing way out of proportion, and twisting it into something they can take offense out of.

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If you take your Easter Egg argument to its natural conclusion, all badges are Easter Eggs. Where in the game does it even talk about earning any of them at all?

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In the tab under you NAV bar labeled "Badges"...

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And that tab tells you what to do to start earning them how exactly?

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"Earn this badge by healing your teammates"
"Earn this badge by defeating Skull bosses"
"Earn this badge by defeating Tsoo Sorcerers"
"Taking out those pesky creatures will earn you The Mongoose badge"

Want me to continue?

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"Complete the Positron Task Force"

"Complete the Synapse Task Force"

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Now you’re finally starting to catch on LiquidX – I knew you were a reasonably bright person. Maybe had the Devs not been stupid enough to implement a badge that was only earnable in a place that the current playerbase at the start of I2 couldn’t even get to we wouldn’t even have had an Isolator problem in the first place…

Nothing was set in stone that -required- Isolator to be limited to Outbreak in the beginning or ever for that matter as RV Isolator has proven...

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Except for the fact that it was intended as an easter egg, as stated before. This isn't a case of the Dev's being stupid, or lack of foresight, or anything else... This is a case of certain people blowing the whole thing way out of proportion, and twisting it into something they can take offense out of.

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Those people who had toons pre-I2, as has been stated many times, could have re-rolled. Their choice not to, but still the complaints come in. They made a choice not to re-roll for a badge which, by the complaints, is obviously of game-breaking importance to them. The devs are offering that badge now, but making it difficult. Big deal. Like I said, no sympathy at all for them. If they truly thought it was that big a deal they would have re-rolled.

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Yes pre-I2 toons "could have re-rolled", so from that point of view I've never had much sympathy for Isolator whiners either.

But I think the point you've missed is -why- were pre-I2 toon players forced to even make that choice?
Why were they barred from a badge simply because they were in the game prior to badges being introduced?
What good purpose did it end up serving that couldn't otherwise have been easily avoided by the Devs?
Why did the Devs take so long to give us a fix that amounts to a big 'screw you' to the player base?

The only big deal I've ever had was the real answers to these questions... And I'm still waiting...

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The game didn't keep track of who took out 100 isolators at the time, so it would have either been impossible to find out who "deserved" the badge, and who just earned it for making the character before issue 2, or hard as hell.

And even if the game did keep track, Positron has stated that datamining is very time consuming to do.

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I'm thinking a bit beyond these tired points. Frankly I don't care whether the game tracked contaminated kills pre-I2 or not or how hard datamining supposedly is or not (a flimsier excuse from a software developer I don't think I've ever heard BTW).

Can you explain to me why contaminated MOBs couldn't have been placed in AP and/or GC from the beginning of I2 and still stayed true to the 'starting your career on a high note' intention of the badge? The 'solution' to Isolator could have been implemented before it even became a problem... *sigh*

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Besides the fact that if it were made that easy, there would be no point in even leaving the Isolator badge in Outbreak in the first place?

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As for the villains wanting another pop at Jail Bird - everyone knew about Jail Bird when CoV went live. The badge had been in there during Beta... I wasn't even involved in any part of the beta testing, and knew where it was. On day 1 of the CoV public release I got the badge. This makes the Jail Bird example a load of crap - it was available for months before the game even went live.

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Everyone knew about Jailbird? Where's your indication that badges even exist in the CoV tutorial for those people who had never played CoH, but thought being a Villain sounded cool?

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Because your not supposed to know the badge is there. They are "Easter Eggs", intended to reward those willing to explore (In CoV) or crazy enough to see what happens if you whack 100 contaminated (In CoH). So, much like the law, ignorance of the badges is not a good excuse.

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Just had a thought. As well as villain griefing, the "anti-Isolator" people may grief as well. There may be hordes of people who don't hink this badge should be awarded hopping around bumping off the poor little single spawned Contaminated, just to make their point. Good luck ever getting it if that happens.

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And as one of the so called "Anti-Isolators", I would like to state that doing so would be just as deplorable as a villain player whacking the spawn just to screw with the hero players.