Leo_G

Damnit Siolfir! Your post sounded more official than suggestionary...but yeah, if hidden AS did that much dmg, I'd have no real room to complain. >_<

That, and maybe improve demoralize a bit to last 12-15sec vs 8sec...

Right.

It emphasizes mainline combat by drastically improving scrapping capabilities while sidestepping the surgical strike mentality.

It's all moot. We'll be getting Scrappers instead of Stalkers. But it won't matter, we'll be using AS so that counts as being Stalker!

When's this being put on beta already?

Ah, well that makes sense. But all it really does is shift the time span from constant to any specified window, a window of which can skew the numbers depending on how long you choose.

The span of a BU or the span of a boss' lifespan on an 8 man team, it all differs but it all counts the time *you* want to start, not when the boss has become aware of your presence.



For all of that, I direct you to Siolfir's posts about the damage differences of AS hidden and not. I'm not in a position to look up mids', check damage numbers/activations, add them up and compare, point for point damage of what hidden AS > BU > Attack Chain vs BU > Superior Attack > 2 more Attacks > 1sec AS does, but I expect pre buff AS to not be as effective. I can tell by feel alone, and the resulting measures Synapse recently took that it'd be so. There's really no argument; regular pre buff hidden AS > chain of attacks to defeat boss is inferior to just using buffed AS unhidden along with Assassin's Focus. It'd have been true for the span of a boss' life and that is the only important window it'd need to perform at.


Lol, it's moot now anyway. I was right which is why hidden AS went from scale 7 dmg to scale 9. No clue if Synapse even is reading this thread anymore but my guess is he's got me on ignore after the stuff I said in the Stalker TW thread in beta. Even if I made my point, he'd implement a change only so my argument can't stand up anymore in spite of me

Hidden AS will now do more damage than unhidden AS (according to what Siolfir says)...So I can't say that anymore...however, it only does more damage than a non-focused unhidden AS. Still makes me not care if I'm bothering lining up a foe and making careful not to interrupt AS from hide...and still makes placate > AS not particularly worth it (as it's *barely* worth it currently).

Basically, I have to change my argument now which makes me seem finicky and unsure of my stance >_>

Lol, I was only saying 'first strike' to line up with your wording. Nowhere do I specifically focus on the first *one* strike...I talk about AS from hidden which can be initialized with placate which could be used for a 'first strike', 'third strike' or nth strike of an encounter. You just choose to focus on the one first strike, set up 'run and rehide' as a strawman and mention placate's recharge as some kind of strangle-point to its usefulness. All of that dodges my main point...

It's all moot, though...but I can still say there's no point to placate > AS mid combat though. Before, it was the only way to get any meaningful damage from AS, but now, it's what AF will be for. But lower the animation on that and I suppose we'll be golden. The basic rules of an Stalker's encounter will be set:

-Attempt AS at the start if possible.
-Only use AS after 2+ regular attacks.
-Never use placate with AS mid-combat.
-Only pair placate with a high-end attack (if placate's animation is indeed dropped to something like 1sec or below).

Doesn't quite leave the status quo, though. Before, taking AS was a choice. Now, it's a must-take. Doesn't particularly reward the main stalker mentality of lining up that AS first though; just scrap and you'll do better on all accounts, just like a scrapper.

Yay.

I believe DPA means Damage Per Activation. It's a term that kind of drops off in usefulness, I think, as it basically encapsulates a type of Endurance economy vibe to it. Hidden Assassin's Strike's DPA is actually the highest in the game, if basically it means how much damage can you fit into one button press or for the most efficient amount of endurance. Since hidden AS basically outdoes the damage of anything on a single target (even nukes), it has the best DPA. Now if you're talking about Damage Per Activation Seconds....well, that's basically DPS...

But the reason it's relevant is because of the other part of your paragraph...sometimes you can't pull off a hidden AS. To put it simply, there is a risk involved attempting to pull off that interruptible (moderately) high reward attack vs a non-interruptible attack for a crit.

The BU window only matters if DPS is your game. If that is the case, you won't be using AS from hidden status anymore with the proposed change. You'd be using a high dmg attack that crits (or an AoE) followed by 2 more attacks *THEN* AS after you built focus. The game basically encourages you to not use AS in conjunction with hidden if DPS is your focus therefore encouraging you to skip the other Stalker gimmick, Demoralize.

And I am lobbying for improvements to AS. Have you been listening to anything I'm saying, Sam?

But the thing is, I'm proposing *drastic* changes to it, changes that will make people *want* to ambush that target and pump out hidden AS along with regular combat. No, my changes aren't as drastic as to make you want to outright spam AS like a regular melee attack(lol) but they are drastic...so drastic that they wouldn't be balanced (IMO) to go along side what Synapse is suggesting.

That's why I'm proposing it to others, trying to get their perspective on what I'm saying and keep the gate open for the way stalkers have played since the beginning (no, not the hit-and-run beginnings...).

I think you really need to slow your horses, guys.

You talk about this as if we are guaranteed 1sec 100% crit AS when unhidden right now. What makes you think Synapse, after testing the changes, doesn't scale back his idea? Lower the crit damage portion? Increase the endurance/recharge? Alters it so the animation is something like 2sec vs 1sec?

The thing is, I don't see the posted changes he said are quite balance and may well be scaled back or completely scrapped. I'm *trying* to suggest something that is less likely to be scrapped.

The changes sound pretty, but in all honesty, it'll make sets like Spines and Elec melee absurdly powerful and leave poor MA, EM and DM in the dust. The AoE sets will have good to great ST dmg thanks to unhidden AS + decent to good AoE while the ST sets will have even better ST dmg and crap/no AoE. Of course, my idea doesn't quite change that, but at least it doesn't help the AoE sets by such a ridiculous amount.

Sure! Give Defiance the same uninterruptibility buff! Then they can use those pesky offensive powers that have disrupt times, like trip mines, time bomb, snipes and so forth. It actually puts an emphasis on damage vs the other ATs that get the same powers. Suddenly, those traps and snipes that are scoffed at by Corruptors, Dominators, Defenders, etc. become staples to Blasters and only Blasters. The only problem I see is, well, not every set has a snipe in it...

I still don't understand the opposition.

I'm not trying to improve the first strike capabilities of Stalkers for the sake of improving the AT's specialty role. I'm suggesting to improve the first strike capabilities of Stalkers so as to keep that option attractive in lieu of a change that makes straight combat *more* attractive than previously. Why? Because Stalkers have always seen 'first strikes' as, at least, situationally attractive. Now? Even less situationally attractive...

Sam made that suggestion? I thought they were discussing alternative suggestions than Synapse's.

But yeah, the thought behind Assassin's Focus is to make unhidden Assassin's Strike better, right? Synapse's idea goes on the branch of AS having no downfalls (and actually being one of your better attacks in the set) as it is fast, quick to recharge and superior damage then having Assassin's Focus make it better by improving its crit chances.

My line of thought is, keep the downfalls of Assassin's Strike when unhidden and have Assassin's Focus improve the quality of AS when used normally. With 0 stacks, AS has a 3sec animation, 2 seconds of it are interruptible, and it only has base effectiveness (10% crit chance). 1 stack could make it uninterruptible by means of giving the player a 1000% interrupt reduction buff or something, 2-4 stacks could improve some stat for it like crit chance or hit chance, and the 5th stack could replace the animation with the hidden version (the 1 second one). IMO, even without the 1sec animation, if unhidden AS wasn't interruptible and had a 50-75% crit chance, it'd still be a particularly good attack for some sets.

And I say some sets. For EM, Elec Melee, Spines and DBs, unhidden Assassin's Strike with the above mentioned (but with 3sec animation), would still get great use out of that attack but within reason. Sets like Claws, MA, StJ or DM might pass on that as they have good ST dmg...that seems quite balanced.

With Synapse's idea, sets like Spines and Elec melee, that were only so-so ST damagers suddenly shoot way past their Brute/Scrapper counterparts (and in the case of Elec melee, it comes with no downfall or counterbalance).

But this is all just feel, for me. I'm going by feel alone and think the proposed change will go too far for some sets and remove what uniqueness Stalkers had with their playstyle.

Eh, it was just an idea. Stalkers are just starting to feel weighed down by its gimmicks.

But to further elaborate on the idea...

My Assassin's Focus boosts your whole melee set:
Stack 1 = +4.6% crit bonus to all attacks; makes AS uninterruptible.
Stack 2 = +4.6% crit bonus to all attacks; +10.4% crit bonus to AS (totalling 15% crit bonus for AS)
Stack 3&4 = same as stack 2
Stack 5 = Hidden AS animation and +4.6% crit bonus to all attacks for a total of +23% crit bonus (base + bonus would be 33% which is what we get with all 7 teammates in range) and about +65% crit chance for AS.

With my idea, as you fight, your Assassin's Focus refreshes with each regular attack and are spent by AS (your regular attacks don't spend it, just refresh it up to 5 and AS empties your points to 0).

Ideally, this isn't better for your regular meleeing with the current scaling crits since the bonus would be dropping off when you use AS. But then remember, the other part of the idea is...AS only animates in 1 sec (with max focus or after placate). One of those, by itself, should cover the loss of DPS (again, going by feel), but add in that 1 stack makes AS uninterruptible and you can get 5 stacks to buff AS's unhidden crit chance to 65%...Think that's enough to cover the loss of DPS over scaling crits?

And that is what Assassin's Focus is for.

Thinking of the AT as using ambush tactics, it's hard to damn someone, even if they are an NPC, for having anti-ambush tactics. Even then, there means to bypass those tactics such as making the foe come to you, rushing them faster or placate.

That said, you seem to perceive the idea in absolutes. Just because AS from hidden status is premiere doesn't mean that is your only tactic. Heck, Assassin's Focus tells you the opposite, that *it* is another option.

Yes, my idea focuses on Assassin's Strike from hidden...but that's only because there are so many things *messed up* with Assassin's Strike from hidden. It's slower than normal melee, it's interruptible and it relies on being hidden. You can tell me what's wrong with AS now and I can try to tell you ways to make it better. That doesn't, however, mean I expect any and all focus of the AT to revolve around that one means of attack. I'm just telling you it can and should be made more attractive than it is now...which is my point: new buffs don't do anything for the ambush tactics of Stalker and it could have...

[/quote]

Clarification: I'm not asking for scaling crits to be removed, just rolled into Assassin's Focus rather than an aura that requires allies to be within 30ft of you...

You've got it backwards.

You never needed to back out and wait 8 seconds for Hide in the middle of battle...that's what Placate is for. Sure, you're being rewarded for getting the drop on unsuspecting foes...but with the proposed changes, you're getting rewarded *more* for attacking indiscriminately. The only thing you don't get for that is Demoralize which then you have to weigh a *possible* 25% 30ft range mag 4 terrorize + unresitable unstackable -7% ToHit vs [X] increase in burst + DPS (I'll leave that [X] for the number gurus to crunch out).

You say a hide AS does more damage, but that's only if you're looking at the big orange number over the target's head. You have to neglect the time spent exectuting the attack vs how much dmg you could fit in the same window. Because, if you weren't aware, Assassin's Strike does not one-shot bosses or Lts passed a certain level...it's always BU > AS > Placate > Hard Hitter or BU > AoE > Attack Chain or some other combo of powers....it's never just one click and it never will be.

That AS can do [Y] points more damage for its one click doesn't tell even half the story...

Personally, I don't even like calling Stalkers a 'stealth AT'...and I won't. If people actually listened to me, and formed a Leo_G cult where they copied every word I say and put a 'o_G' at the end of every post, then everyone would be calling Stalker an Ambush AT...because that's what I think their whole appeal is...they can bumrush a target by focusing all they got into one blow...

Hell, if we could, I'd love to make Stalkers better burst ATs by taking away their BU power, making it an inherent power and simply calling it 'Bum Rush'...so if the melee set had Siphon Power, or Soul Drain or Follow Up...or Build up...the set would still have it but then you'd also get 'Bum Rush' as your 'ambush buff'. Then you can do both surgical strikes and DPS...

Anyway, yeah, Stalkers are an Ambush AT...even if the foe knows you're there and coming for you, it doesn't really matter...you just need to attack *faster* to get the drop on an ambush. That's the whole idea of an ambush so you just need to strike first...

And yeah I yelled at you until you got the idea that Stalkers should scrap, but that's just common sense, really. That doesn't mean I think that should be the main rewarding feature of the AT...because this new change rewards that and only that (and overwhelmingly so, IMO)...


That said, all the ideas posted, while interesting, I think you're not going to get enough people behind you to get it up for testing...frankly, the devs sound pretty intrigued by their own approach. I'm curious to test it too, but I still hold out that it just overly rewards scrapping *at the cost* of rewarding ambushing. I'd just like some of that reward shifted so it's an equal reward for either.


Again, to modify the dev's own approach:

-Make hidden AS 1sec and uninterruptible, doing max dmg and demoralize. Make hide > AS and placate > AS premiere to the AT.
-Make unhidden AS 3sec and interruptible.
-Add Assassin's Focus build up to 5. The first stack making unhidden AS uninterruptible and the last stack dropping the animation down to 1 second.

Note: just making AS uninterruptible out of hide (using Assassin's Focus) would be a great buff by itself. But it wouldn't make it the main noteworthy tactic of a stalker mid-combat, which is how it should be, IMO. Making it so constant combat improves your assassination abilities is the key.

And some other things...:
-Can we just drop the whole scaling crit thing? It's rather unneeded if we've got Assassin's Focus.
-Roll Assassin's Focus as if it were the scaling crit bonus. Each stack = +4.6% crit bonus to all your attacks. Give Assassin's Strike a better bonus, maybe somewhere like 50-75% crit chance from a full 5 stacks of attacks. That way, if you're on a purely DPS objective, you don't need teamates to achieve high DPS, just stack AF and don't stop attacking...pop AS when you max stack it and start again.

Note: it feels like all the gimmicks stacked on Stalkers is too convoluted (Hide, Placate, Assassin's Strike, scaling crits, Demoralize, Assassin's Focus). Cut some of the fat, namely the newly added scaling crits, and just roll that into other things...or just get rid of it entirely and replace it with Assassin's Focus.

The whole 'kill foe gets Stalker a reward' idea was namely something I cobbled together from when Castle was making suggestions for the new Blaster Defiance. He had put forth the idea that killing foes would buff the blaster which told me 'hey, so they have tech for that...how could that be used for stalkers?' Well, Synapse is aiming for a different approach. If he wants to change that approach is up to him, but I'm just making suggestions in-line with what he's already planning...

Nice, glad I'm not just going crazy, becoming jaded or morphing into a nerfhearder or something

Not sure about the +crit buff added by Assassin's Focus. Synapse never really clarified on that, but then I don't think anyone ever posted "So 10%+ 33%x3 stacks?" in the thread he's discussing in so the issue was never brought up. I didn't even begin to think those numbers were anything but a straight accumulative added chance vs a modified chance...But I specifically remember him saying Assassin's Focus only stacks 3 times and after you use Assassin's Strike (hit or miss) all the points are spent.

And the above numbers get worse when you add in Placate. Basically, you're practically penalized every time you try to use them as a pair...not trying to cradle the Placate > AS combo, but for mid-combat Demoralize, you shouldn't need to sacrifice so much...especially if they're just handing out free-crit AS >_>

Not sure if you're still reading this thread, Synapse, but I've been thinking, debating and apparently nagging other posters trying to get their opinions and perspectives for the old and future Stalker/AS changes.

From what I can gather, and what I actually based my stance on, is some players do not currently take and/or use AS and many prefer to use placate with other powers like Concentrated Strike, Burst, Thunderstrike, Crushing Uppercut, etc. As is, AS from hide or Placate > AS is only marginally useful, which isn't wholly an issue...

But with the new changes discussed, the relative effectiveness of hidden AS or Placate > AS is lessened because it will simply be better (for burst and DPS) to simply use AS to scrap.

Now I'm not certain if that is the intended direction you want to take that attack, but it seems backward to me that hidden AS would, in many circumstances, be *less* useful than unhidden AS. Not to mention, Assassin's Focus provides more benefit to button mash vs timed surgical strikes.

Would it not be more thematic to 'invert' the proposed addition to Stalkers? Making it so a hidden AS animates in 1 second and an unhidden AS animates in 3? Then you can make it so Assassin's Focus 'aids' the unhidden Stalker by improving the effectiveness of unhidden AS? A Stalker should fundamentally be at his peak when attacking from ambush, right? So being able to rush into a spawn and click your mightiest attack for a quick death still feels perfectly thematic.

And this is all a suggestion, but Assassin's Focus basically making AS a 100% crit every time (stacking 3 attacks is *really* easy) sounds a bit much anyway. If an unhidden AS is regularly 3sec animation and interruptible, Assassin's Focus could buff the power in other ways, like stacking it once makes one immune to being interrupted (hey, that could be a buff for the epic snipes too!), and stacking it to max could swap the activation to the 1sec version...

Again, this is all just theorycraft, but even if your goal is to make Stalkers into the ST damage kings, I still think they can be by still keeping in practice with the standard tools of a current Stalker (Hidden ambush, placate, Assassination, Demoralize, all that jazz) vs relying practically only on mash-button as fast as possible.

Okay, now step back and stop looking at it from a selfish perspective.

What about other players' stalkers? What about the primaries that aren't Street Justice or Kinetic Melee? What about the stalkers without high-end IO builds? What about the Stalkers under level 13 or 26 or 32? How you use your characters isn't always how others use theirs so singling out your perspective purposely ignores other variables and that's not something we should be doing when making fundamental changes like what is about to occur.

I'm still curious about people's opinion on the change from a thematic stance. No one has really bothered elaborating on that, that AS is ultimately harder to use and slower to get a marginally good effect when hidden vs the quick and most likely superior effect of AS when not hidden.

To me, it's backward on a fundamental level. Stalkers are suppose to want to strike from ambush and AS has its downfalls in that regard. But Assassin's Focus is there to aid when not hidden? But still does nothing when you are?

Again, I'm not arguing a buff to Stalkers, nor am I limiting the scope of the buff to a single initial burst. But it really makes what a Stalker normally does obsolete vs making that better. Those that never use AS or Placate > AS? Ever ask yourself why that is? When you determine the reason, try thinking of something to *fix* that...

Did you read the whole suggestion? Working in-line with the current suggestion of Synapse, 3 stacks is where you're aiming for (although I'd have suggested 5). 1 stack will allow you to use AS unhidden without being interrupted (if 5 stacks, then stack 2-4 would be incremental +% crit bonuses while stack 5 is the quick animation). Not only that, but if you can use AS in ambush (i.e. faster than without hide), that already improves the use of AS for your regen and resistance stalkers.

And I don't admit stalker tactics aren't rewarded. Because they are. Use Placate > AS now and you're rewarded with Demoralize. Use Placate > AoE and you've got higher crits in an AoE. Basically, I want there to be a purpose to using placate no worse than what we have now. Same with using AS from hide.

I *really* don't feel like dissecting every one of your over dramatic posts, so please calm yourself.

First of all, drop the 'gimmicky' thing. Because you're confusing 'gimmicky' with 'ineffective'. Have you seen Beam Rifle? That's gimmicky. What about the new Staff Melee? That's gimmicky. Or the new Assassin's Focus? That's gimmicky.

The issue is (and surprise surprise, it's the *same* thing brought up by Angry Citizen if you ever decide to take the wayback machine and read) adding gimmicks ontop of gimmicks. Yes, Angry Citizen brought it up and I remember because I suggested such gimmicks at the time Stalkers were first improved.

So my first advice on this particular part of dissecting your post: Separate 'gimmick' from 'ineffective' because you're not doing that.

Right, and it can be argued that Assassin's Strike and all it's gimmicky-ness was an aspect of Stalker that made it unique. So your answer to fix what problems you have is...to add another gimmick ontop of that? Rather than improve the gimmick you already have and make it more viable? And I'm speaking of the whole schibang here (hide, placate, AS, controlled burst damage, criticals...)

You say Placate is crap, Negate? Then why not improve it? You'd rather just toss it aside?

Frankly? Stalkers work just fine right now, and their unique style is fun and captivating and has the interest of many players (otherwise no one would be here debating changes for the AT). That you feel Stalkers are a mess, that there is no room for its playstyle and so forth says novels about why you'd have the opinion you have and argue the way you do.

And you don't pick a stalker for a team for being 'unique', you *play* a stalker for being 'unique'. The team doesn't give a crap if, as a DPS AT, you're shooting at range, hitting in melee, nuking entire spawns, etc. All the team cares about is if you keep up and do your role, DPS. Stalkers have always been capable of this and you won't convince me otherwise.

And me saying that does not mean I did not believe improvements could be made to make the choice of being a Stalker more worthwhile, but that comes as a personal choice, not a choice to be approved of by a team that doesn't consist solely of me, myself and I.

Now I know you don't know who I am or understand my perspective.

Nowhere...*ANYWHERE*...do I ever advocate some kind of 'hit and run' type mentality of eliminating a target and then waiting to get the chance again. The only quality I really attribute to Stalkers as being 'theirs' is their control over their burst damage. And it can be said the new changes does give them more controlled burst damage. Problem is, it does so at the cost of their natural tactics. And if I have to spell it out for you, I'm implying that it'd be better to just jump in and scrap vs singling out a trouble target. The sooner you get down and scrap, the sooner you can pump out 1sec cast AS attacks. I feel this isn't quite the right direction to go. You seem not to care.

And this is really all you had to say. If I want to play Scrappers (and I often do) then I'll play Scrappers. Bad enough Brutes and Scrappers are practically identical, the least that could be done is not invalidate a whole style of melee and give it its own unique reward.

It's rather pointless to continue discussion with you, Reppuu. You're predisposed to hate current Stalker, which is what I'm looking to discuss.

The current methods of controlled burst damage.

As of before, Hide > AS wasn't wholly attractive in many situations. The devs added Demoralize to make it somewhat moreso. It rewards the use of AS in conjunction with Hide and/or placate. This, in and of itself, does not change with Synapse's changes.

But the *relative* attractiveness of that combo *does* change. Just answer these questions:
-Currently, do you feel penalized for using AS from hide?

For me? No, not really. It's a situational attack. It does what it does and gives you a bit of an alpha-dampener on top.

-With the proposed change, now how do you feel?

It's hard not to feel penalized. Bad enough it requires either hide unsuppressing or placate, but it remains slow and interruptible when hidden but fast and uninterruptible when not hidden? And it doesn't mesh with aura powers and it gets no benefit from Assassin's Focus and it's not like Demoralize completely stacks...

Stepping away from Hide > AS, I'm still curious of the implications this has on Placate. Again, this is a tool situationally useful because of its clunkiness and questionable effect on DPS. Will Assassin's Focus, as described, banish this power into uselessness? Maybe just make it more situational than it is?

I'm honestly shocked how easily you people dismiss Stalker tactics. If Stalkers aren't going to ever bother using AS + demoralize or placate, what makes one different from a Scrapper or a Brute?

As for what I'd try to do with these Stalker changes?

Well, let me just end this post and start another, cause this one's long enough...

And I can tell you don't particularly care how Stalker accomplishes the feat of being great. You're focusing on the goal of 'beating' those other melees even at the cost of individuality or style. Worse yet, you must have yourself set to believe I'm somehow trying to *hinder* your progress into greatness or 'ruin' things by resisting this design direction...

Try to look at the changes objectively. Personally, yeah, these changes look wonderful and I'm all for them...it's just it basically makes Stalkers into Scrappers with a spammable pre-nerf Energy Transfer.

Don't look at the survivability (honestly, the suggested changes closes that gap nearly completely) or even the loss of AoE (the change that makes AS activate faster seems a fair trade for some of the lost attacks and you know it) but the sum total of the changes and how the AT uses the tools to craft a unique playstyle. So don't tell me how 'gimped' you think Stalker's tactics are and think about what you'd do to make them 'ungimped'.

When Angry Citizen was around, parity was a goal, but keeping the Stalker's unique style was also the goal. The situation I'm seeing now? The devs are willing and ready to make Stalkers into Scrappers and have placed an option down that may do that at the cost of what a Stalker has naturally sought to do.

Do you want to marginalize the hidden AS tactic? Or Placate? So that you can say you're better than X and Y?

I'm not telling you to hate the new changes, just to actually *seek* *SOMETHING* that at least attempts to reward a Stalker for his tactics, which I don't believe these new changes do.

Hah, don't shoot me down like I'm trying to ruin your party. You've actually got a dev set to help the AT out, don't toss away your opportunity by just giving up what makes Stalkers unique...

Aww, you changed your handle

...although I already forgot what it used to be...

Apparently not.

This is why I'm advocating for an alternative use to Assassin's Focus, even at the cost of effectiveness of what has been described (lol, which is overpowered as it is). What that alternative use might be....well, I dunno.

Uh, I think a lot of the confusion is the use of 'out of hide' as a term to determine the circumstances of AS's use. 'Out of hide' could mean 'coming out of hide' or 'you aren't hidden' and it mixes people up.

How about just using the phrases 'with hide' or 'without hide' or 'hidden/unhidden'?

Right, okay. Still, need more AS animations if we're going to do that...

I still feel it should be a choice, though, and one shouldn't be handicapped because they made a 'different' choice.


That really makes me not want to use regular Hide + AS...

So does the Assassin's Focus get 'spent' when you crit with an AS?

Lol WTF? That's overpowered

I'd have made it 5 stacks (so about 19% per stack).

That, or they'll increase the recharge and endurance cost of the power dramatically....it recharges normally in 16 seconds, I think...

And would Assassin's Strike itself add a counter to Assassin's Focus? Just Hide > AS > 3 attacks > AS sounds particularly crazy....

Hmm, well does Assassin's Focus do anything else besides affect Assassin's Strike?

Lol how are you guys getting so confused?

1. Stalker with hide uses AS = longer interruptible animation/base dmg + Assassination bonus damage + demoralize.

2. Stalker without hide uses AS = shorter uninterruptible animation/base damage.

3. Stalker without hide uses AS after building Assassin's Focus = shorter uninterruptible animation/base damage + base damage again (basically 2x dmg).

The shorter animation is dictated by being hidden or not, the super Assassination dmg + demoralize is only usable while hidden but comes with the fact it is interruptible and slower. Hide basically changes the function of AS; burst damage + AoE mitigation vs high DPS.

The 'momentum mechanic' isn't hitting to gain a buff that speeds up animations. The momentum mechanic can be described as 'two effects/animations linked together within a single power' with Hide being the trigger that switches between them. The Assassin's Focus is a variant on the 'street justice combo level mechanic' in that it adds levels to improve the effect of a power (in this case, the critical % chance of AS).

Anyways, no one feels there's an issue with limiting Assassin's Focus only to Assassin's Strike? No one thinks that Assassin's Strike should remain a choice and still have Assassin's Focus provide some kind of utility to the AT?

See? I would have realized that had I made your account and posted on it. So that just solidifies our stories! We got our alibi, see?