KidQwik

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...they're the same power.

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Actually it's not the same now that I remember what MoG is like. MoG drops your hitpoints all the way down and you have a small amount to keep you alive while it's on. You're tougher and all, but with less HPs. The Ninjitsu Stalker version keeps your HPs full to start and your defenses are high and stamina renews quickly. When it's time is up, your stamina drops to rock bottom and doesn't recover for a few seconds. Is it more like unstoppable or something?

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That's not MoG though, that's Kuji Kin Retsu (I think, stupid Ninjitsu names). The Ninjitsu version is actually much closer to Elude than MoG. The confusion is because Stalkers get Regen, and by extension, they also get MoG.

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Yeah! That's it! I always forget all the Ninja like names.

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...they're the same power.

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Actually it's not the same now that I remember what MoG is like. MoG drops your hitpoints all the way down and you have a small amount to keep you alive while it's on. You're tougher and all, but with less HPs. The Ninjitsu Stalker version keeps your HPs full to start and your defenses are high and stamina renews quickly. When it's time is up, your stamina drops to rock bottom and doesn't recover for a few seconds. Is it more like unstoppable or something?

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Real actual demonstrated balance problems. Hurricane may be the best argument to keep toggle-dropping to some degree. If you can kite and brawl or a bubbler can force bolt, that has a chance of getting Hurricane even through Clear Mind or the like.

Even so, as pointed out here, it is possible for melee characters to attack, and ranged characters have less of a problem. So, do stormers have vulnerabilities? Yes. They're not invulnerable. A well-played stormer can be hard to deal with in PVP, but there are counters.


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If they were to allow for the purchase of higher accuracy rocks to throw and hit the Stormer in the head to knock off toggles this may help solve the problem for Melee's having to go through a bunch of steps to detoggle one power. Even with fear, confuse, etc they have a duration that ends. Constantly running into a hurricane you can't get past because you have no way of doing so doesn't increase the chances of getting through it. Brawl was supposed to give the chance to knock a toggle off, but if you can't get in to actually use it, you don't have the ability to do so.

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I can't wait for Recluse's Victory. Siren's Call is better than Warburg layout wise, but Warburg allows the higher level power. I haven't been in Bloody Bay since like the first few days of CoV's release. Siren's Call right now because there's not much else to do at 40. Getting to 50 will be nice. Then I can use the Stalker version of MoG till it gets nerfed. :-b

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Is stalker MoG qualitatively different from scrapper MoG?

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I currently only have it 2 slotted and also can't use it in SC, but in Warburg it works nice. It's like MoG with a click, lasts x amount of time then drops and takes quite a bit of time to recharge. Nice power, but like MoG, can't use it in SC.

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We'll see how weak my rationale is if the devs nerf hurricane. Then I guess it will be my fault that it happened.. Sure. Ok. Given the fact one of your own started this thread and was like "Nerf On the Horizon?" about Hurricane I think that clearly shows there are more then me aware or complaining about it being overpowered and it may be next to be nerfed whether you like it or not. If it's nerfed, go scream at devs and use your rationale to them and see if they listen or not. Make sure they lie first before you accuse them of lying like you're doing with me. Given their track record, I'm sure they'll fumble up something they say in regards to a nerf like they've done in the past. I'll save my responses from now on to the whiners who don't like change, but at LEAST can respond maturely. Peash.

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If Hurricane gets nerfed - and it could happen - you can rest assured that it's not because you can't fight a stormer in PVP.

Also, I'd really like to see how it works in Recluse's Victory before demanding such a necessity.

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Then what would the reason be to nerf it?

I can't wait for Recluse's Victory. Siren's Call is better than Warburg layout wise, but Warburg allows the higher level power. I haven't been in Bloody Bay since like the first few days of CoV's release. Siren's Call right now because there's not much else to do at 40. Getting to 50 will be nice. Then I can use the Stalker version of MoG till it gets nerfed. :-b

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Wrong.. Cause obviously you read things I posted and construe your own version of them which is nothing that I said. You don't want to be nerfed because you like having a power that is over powered and are happy playing it. As I've said before, MoG was overpowered, BUT had the ability to be beaten with a team, insperations, "the right powers", etc etc. Same things people have "suggested" to me about overcoming hurricane. Yesterday there were about 10 of us in SC in a circle around a Hurricane person trying to take them out. Eventually they fell, like what would happen with MoG if they "had the right team". 10 people shouldn't be needed to take out any one AT and especially ONE power. That's the problem. Call me what you want, I understand you like you're toon unnerfed, who doesn't. But Hurricane needs to be "fixed". Much love... Me.

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Wow. That had nothing to do with the post you quoted.

You know, I think you're right. Thinking about it, people with hover have an unfair advantage, too. When they're using hover, my meleers can't get anywher near them. I mean, sure I could respec and take hover, or superjump, but hover sucks because I don't like it for some arbitrary reason! I shouldn't have to change my build to counter someone else's power!

Do you realize how absurd your arguments are? How weak your rationale is? Are you concious of this fact? Are you, in fact, lying and exaggerating to justify your continued argument? I begin to suspect you are. Because there is no acknowledgement of reality in your words.

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We'll see how weak my rationale is if the devs nerf hurricane. Then I guess it will be my fault that it happened.. Sure. Ok. Given the fact one of your own started this thread and was like "Nerf On the Horizon?" about Hurricane I think that clearly shows there are more then me aware or complaining about it being overpowered and it may be next to be nerfed whether you like it or not. If it's nerfed, go scream at devs and use your rationale to them and see if they listen or not. Make sure they lie first before you accuse them of lying like you're doing with me. Given their track record, I'm sure they'll fumble up something they say in regards to a nerf like they've done in the past. I'll save my responses from now on to the whiners who don't like change, but at LEAST can respond maturely. Peash.

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At the height of my Kat/Regens power (read: able to tank Hami) giant monsters were not soloable for me. Nerfs to Regen after issue 4's release were in direct response to PvP issues. not PvE.

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Did you forget Divine Avalache or something? That single power provides as much relative -acc as five DM/ attacks.

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Phase shift just didnt hold aggro long enough for herding. In PvP, phased Illusion controllers were using phase along with Phantom Army to win matches at no risk to themselves.

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Before the fixes to AI between i5 and i6, ANY enemy that could see you, inside a mission, would follow you until you zoned, died, or went from floor to floor. My Storm/Elec used Phase Shift a couple times to get through missions, and when he got to the end, it was quite common to have a few million enemies surrounding him.

Could a tanker use this to tank a herded group? Of course not, it drops his aggro metric to nearly 0, so as soon as the enemies saw anyone that wasn't phased, they'd go annihilate them. That said, you could use Phase Shift to herd multiple groups in pure safety - say, if you didn't want to use Granite Armor or Unyielding Stance, or needed 20 enemies around you at all times for Invincibility - toggle on those powers, and then turn off phase shift.

That wasn't the primary reason - there were an infinite number of level 40-50 missions that could be Phased through, which kinda made leveling those last ten even more of a joke than it was with all the powerleveling going on - but it was one of them.

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Wrong.. Cause obviously you read things I posted and construe your own version of them which is nothing that I said. You don't want to be nerfed because you like having a power that is over powered and are happy playing it. As I've said before, MoG was overpowered, BUT had the ability to be beaten with a team, insperations, "the right powers", etc etc. Same things people have "suggested" to me about overcoming hurricane. Yesterday there were about 10 of us in SC in a circle around a Hurricane person trying to take them out. Eventually they fell, like what would happen with MoG if they "had the right team". 10 people shouldn't be needed to take out any one AT and especially ONE power. That's the problem. Call me what you want, I understand you like you're toon unnerfed, who doesn't. But Hurricane needs to be "fixed". Much love... Me.

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I did. Reread the posts about the requirements I'm asked to do. Take this power, that power, fill up on insps, and get a team. All for one power because one melee can barely touch it by itself. A little too many "requirements" for overcome one power.

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I'd actually be able to empathize with this arguement if a Storm Defender could kill a Regener, even one locked into a corner.

I've had my claws/regen locked into a corner by a stormer who focused on her attacks, and still couldn't kill me within fifteen minutes, just because of integration and reconstruction. I'd hate to think what slotted IH could do.

If not having the right powers meant an instant loss, sure, then we'd have a problem. But as it is, Stormers aren't going to be 'always win' characters. They tend toward stalemates in solo.

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Therein lies the problem. They either need to nerf things of come up with things to counter these kinds of problems. Temp powers that can counter them and actually work would be a start. As I've said, stun grenade and web rarely seem to work for me, never mind the bugs in trying to buy them, showing up, and then having them use the EMP icon when they're supposed to be one of the grenades. That's a different story in itself though.

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It actually just occured to me why these two situations (stalkers and storm defenders) are so similar... in both cases, what you're talking about is the proverbial "one trick pony". It's a very common game design mechanic - you give a particular class one incredibly powerful ability, and build the entire class around that.

I never got into the whole D&D thing when I was younger, but oddly enough I've been playing quite a bit of it lately (I had to get older to fully embrace my inner nerd). The Rogue in D&D is the best example I've seen of one trick pony game design. In straight-up combat, a Rogue isn't even remotely a match for a Fighter, but if he's able to flank or sneak up on his targets, he can absolutely raise hell. However, there are situations where that doesn't work. Certain things are immune to sneak attacks, so the rogue is at a great disadvantage in those circumstances. However, when he's in his element, he's unmatched.

Similarly, Storm Defenders and Stalkers are incredibly powerful against their intended targets. A Storm Defender can completely render neuter a meleer if that meleer doesn't have anyone with him that's able to shut down the stormie. Likewise, a Stalker can wreck a team if they don't have anyone that's able to see him. However, put either of the two in a situation that's not ideal for them and they're all but worthless as they have little or nothing to fall back on.

Now, the question is whether or not the one trick pony design is a good one. Most of this whole RPG business is either homage or outright theft from D&D... it's the original. In D&D, there's no such thing as PvP. You don't have to worry about whether or not the monsters are having fun. CoX DOES have PvP, and you DO have to worry about whether or not both participating parties are having fun. Is it fun for a meleer whose being blasted at range by a Storm Defender that he's not able to retaliate against? Is it fun for someone whose busy fighting someone else to suddenly find themselves dead in one hit by a Stalker they never saw?

*shrug* That's the dilema, isn't it?

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You've summed up the point I've repeatedly try to make it here and just have been name called and my point overlooked. The Devs did some good by putting Temp powers like IR and Cryonite Armor in to deal with some of the obvious weaknesses of ATs. One, those who can't see Hide unless your powerset has some ability, and two, squooshies that need need a little more shielding. For me, the stun and Web Grenades almost always miss or when they do, do nothing. The EMP Glove I've have limited success with because on occasion it seems to drain end and when it doesn't do that and make a hit, causes a little damage. I'm wondering if EMP is working as intended. As a melee I can't touch someone with Hurricane unless I follow a laundry list of thing like take this power, guzzle insps, travel power tactics, and get a team. Getting a team will still not allow ME to hit the Hurricaner, switching to yet another melee power won't do anything because well.. It's another melee power and I have to get close enough to hit but that's the whole problem I've have to begin with! Stalkers can kill me in 2 shots with Int running; one for AS and another attack right after. You can't use MoG in Siren's Call so how am I supposed to use it there? Hurricane you can use at a lower level and it dominates in SC. It needs to be made so that it is has a chance to be overcome by melee in all PvP zones other then "do a dozen things" to beat it. People complained about MoG for the same reason. I ONLY used MoG in PvP on Test in the Arenas. I hated using it before that and still don't use it to this day. It was an "Oh ****!" power that wiped you to very low HPs and many times you'd die anyway. Yet, it's BEST use was to get past bubbles and hurricanes. Only reason I used it on Test. Hurricane needs to be able to be defeated without having a full team and gobblin inps. For a Stormie to go around in Hurricane all the time and do nothing else is similiar to someone using MoG all the time. MoG was overpowered with it's ability to be made perma. Right now, Hurricane is perma. It either needs to be made a clickie so it can't be on all the time or have it's ability to always work lowered. Otherwise it's like having a Regen Scrapper with IH on all the time.

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Cut knockback suppression to 5 seconds. Make PVP kb effects linger for a second or two so they're easier to stack.

Repel suppression isn't really necessary.

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What would be cool is if someone turned on Hurricane, they'd have no control over what direction they're going. The possibly just float to the other side of the map away from battle.

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What would be even cooler would be if all Regens developed cancer due to the unchecked cell growth and died.


You do notice that you haven't replied to any of the dozen of posts here that actually suggested means to overcome Hurricane, right? It would be nice if you, after serially befouling the Defender forums, would actually care to demonstrate that you're trying to do anything but try and get people riled up.

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I did. Reread the posts about the requirements I'm asked to do. Take this power, that power, fill up on insps, and get a team. All for one power because one melee can barely touch it by itself. A little too many "requirements" for overcome one power.

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Cut knockback suppression to 5 seconds. Make PVP kb effects linger for a second or two so they're easier to stack.

Repel suppression isn't really necessary.

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What would be cool is if someone turned on Hurricane, they'd have no control over what direction they're going. The possibly just float to the other side of the map away from battle.

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I'm pretty sure I demonstrated that you only really need one ranged attacker to defeat a stormy this evening Kid

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Bah. Ranged attackers are wimps! :-b

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Give a solution more eloquent than "remove repel from hurricane" or "turn hurricane into a click", and us Defenders might actually give a damn. However, until you either do so or explain how your Scrapper can't use the Phase Shift creep + Brawl, I think you can shove it.

Oh, and to clarify what I meant earlier about knockback, I don't want PvE knockback protection reduced or even touched. If you're willing to use a fifth of your base recovery just to run Acro, I don't care how close you can stand to a Cabal Storm Mistress.

But whether PvP knockback doesn't stack, or otherwise is completely unable to break even the weakest knockback protection, that I think needs some looking into.

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Ahh. There u go again. Storm's complaing about wanting to have their hurricane effect all no matter what somehow. U sound like a Regen Scrapper wanting MoG all the time now against Hurricane. Exactly why Hurricane needs to be "fixed" since we don't have MoG all the time. No Hurricane all the time. It can be you're "Oh ****" power for 2.5 mins full strength, then for 8-9 mins you have to use skill and your other powers to survive instead of just running around with Hurricane on as your only power really used.

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scrappers!

BAH!

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Also, I'm on your side here: Hurricane doesn't need to be nerfed.

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I don't think Hurricane needs a direct nerf, however, Repel needs suppression. If I can't Perma-Hold/Perma-KB/Perma-Fear someone, then I shouldn't be able to perma Repel someone into a corner with zero chance for escape either.
If Knockback warrants suppression, so does Repel. It's only fair.

Confusion and Phase control powers don't have suppression either, but they should be tossed into the chamber as well IMO.

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It's possible that repel doesn't currently suppress due to the non binary nature of this particular control. A knockback is a single effect. The power knocks you back, suppression begins. A hold hits you, suppression time again. Repel is a constant state of being slightly pushed away. If you suppressed repel, it would effectively do nothing. It would basically turn all repel powers into very very weak knockback powers that don't actually put you on your rear end. I do agree that there should be some kind of suppression, but it would have to be based on your extended exposure to a continuing repel effect, and I think that might prove to be a problem in implementation.

I think that anyone should be able to wade their way through my hurricane given enough time, but that the repel should be providing me a useful amount of continued melee protection.

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See. I agree. Yet the faithful will argue their AT shouldn't be touched in any way shape or form. We all do it. Of course I'm the one being called the whiner and bad guy here. They're doing exactly what I did when Regen nerfs were on the way and then happened. When it's YOU, screw what everyone else says. Had the same thing going on in the scrapper forum where nonregen's were trying to justify a nerf to regen because it got past their powers in PvP. Let's see what the devs decide. I just really don't think pushing everyone around with hurricane and needing a team, insps, certain powers, "strategy" combined to overcome one power is balanced. IE: See MoG pre nerf.

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Actually it was more like "Can't hit without a tray full of inspirations (Perma-MoG), can't do enough damage to overcome regeneration (IH), and can't stack holds fast enough to punch through Integration."

None of which is specific to Storm, but generic to Controllers. Which I might also add, this is not the appropriate forum for.

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I'm Hami-Oed out, have Stamina, QR, Int, and IH in use in Siren's Call. What are insperations I stack up on? Purples, Greens, and a few blues. All the the things I'm supposed to need the least since I'm a Regen scrapper supposedly. That's how uber I'm not even with those supposedly "unfair" powers.

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That above quote was the ACTUAL PvP complaint at the time. ALL Scrappers use inspirations like that now, they all have lower Status Protection, they all offer less mitigation, etc etc. I think your expectations are just unreasonable, as none of those powers are "unfair" anymore. IH will still make you nigh-unkillable while it's up (though if you're held it'll only delay the inevitable) against all but the highest DPS attackers (Blasters, other Scrappers perhaps).

While you might feel that Hurricane is "unfair" to you, it is very easy to bypass given several easily available tactics, the easiest of which is to get a teamate with ranged attacks to kite and blast/mez him, only slightly more difficult being learning how to charge through it and hit with a Stun like Cobra Strike or buy the Stun Grenade temp power.

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Since I'm the one dying well slotted with IH up that kinda defeats the nigh-unkillable part. Since you're telling me I need to take this that and the other to get past hurricane I guess it sorta proves my point why I should be "changed" from it's current form. MoG is one power to get passed hurricane with a long recharge. Can't use it in SC call though. So I'm supposed to get multiple powers a collection of insperations and multiple team members to beat it??? That's my whole point of why it needs to be changed.. It's too strong. Look, I know no one wants their powers nerfed. Regen scrappers more then anyone. But to sit here and say I'm the whiner after I'm the one who got my powers nerfed because of people who whined because it defeated their power shows how no one likes to be nerfed, whether they're the pot calling the kettle black and they admit it or not. Some powers are overpowered. Of course I think they should have done other things to IH and MoG instead of what they did. I said my powers were fine when they were protecting me just like what's going on here. But the big picture is much more then what we want as opposed to what the devs want. At this point, who knows cause they can't seem to make up their mind. The elusive Balance Vision is unbalanced. Somethings obviously are a problem and the devs even stated about hurricane being like bowling pins. If they said that, then they think that there may be a problems. Reading the interview about I7 isn't very comforting. They're implementing more PvP changes to make things more "balanced". Will the devs do things to Hurricane? Possibly. If so, everyone can yell at their reasoning like Regen Scrappers and many others did when they were nerfed. Storm people can be part of the club now if nothing else.

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I think I can sum up his point like this

"Waaaa, Regen got nerfed in the past, I'm too lazy to tailor my build, team and tactics to counter something that presents me a challenge in PvP, and therefore I want that challenge nerfed"

I think Kid might be more comfortable playing an FPS with godmode on. That seems like about the level of thought and effort he wants to expend on facing challenges in PvP here.

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It's more like this..

Storm Controller: "Wahhh, Regen's are too strong! Nerf them so they can't get past Hurricane so easily with perma Mog!"
Regen Scrapper: "Learn how to play instead of whining, then you can beat me!"

(nerfs occur for the xth time to regen)

Storm Controller: "Yay, now I can beat you!"
Scrapper: ""Hey Devs, Hurricane is too strong now that you're nerfed melee powers to get passed it! Waahh, nerf Hurricane so it's not Perma!!"
Storm Controller: "Learn how to play instead of whining, then you can beat me!"

Hmm. Deja Vu?

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Actually it was more like "Can't hit without a tray full of inspirations (Perma-MoG), can't do enough damage to overcome regeneration (IH), and can't stack holds fast enough to punch through Integration."

None of which is specific to Storm, but generic to Controllers. Which I might also add, this is not the appropriate forum for.

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I'm Hami-Oed out, have Stamina, QR, Int, and IH in use in Siren's Call. What are insperations I stack up on? Purples, Greens, and a few blues. All the the things I'm supposed to need the least since I'm a Regen scrapper supposedly. That's how uber I'm not even with those supposedly "unfair" powers.

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I think I can sum up his point like this

"Waaaa, Regen got nerfed in the past, I'm too lazy to tailor my build, team and tactics to counter something that presents me a challenge in PvP, and therefore I want that challenge nerfed"

I think Kid might be more comfortable playing an FPS with godmode on. That seems like about the level of thought and effort he wants to expend on facing challenges in PvP here.

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It's more like this..

Storm Controller: "Wahhh, Regen's are too strong! Nerf them so they can't get past Hurricane so easily with perma Mog!"
Regen Scrapper: "Learn how to play instead of whining, then you can beat me!"

(nerfs occur for the xth time to regen)

Storm Controller: "Yay, now I can beat you!"
Scrapper: ""Hey Devs, Hurricane is too strong now that you're nerfed melee powers to get passed it! Waahh, nerf Hurricane so it's not Perma!!"
Storm Controller: "Learn how to play instead of whining, then you can beat me!"

Hmm. Deja Vu?

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i dont think storm controllers had a problem with regen b3fore. Before they made IH a click, LS was already toggling it off. also with MOG on tornado has auto-hit damage of around 20 each tick.

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Not what I was hearing on test when PvP was first born with the Arena. Lots of complaints about MoG how people it was able to run through everything more or less. And so people whined and it was nerfed. Such is the nature of PvP problems.

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I think I can sum up his point like this

"Waaaa, Regen got nerfed in the past, I'm too lazy to tailor my build, team and tactics to counter something that presents me a challenge in PvP, and therefore I want that challenge nerfed"

I think Kid might be more comfortable playing an FPS with godmode on. That seems like about the level of thought and effort he wants to expend on facing challenges in PvP here.

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It's more like this..

Storm Controller: "Wahhh, Regen's are too strong! Nerf them so they can't get past Hurricane so easily with perma Mog!"
Regen Scrapper: "Learn how to play instead of whining, then you can beat me!"

(nerfs occur for the xth time to regen)

Storm Controller: "Yay, now I can beat you!"
Scrapper: ""Hey Devs, Hurricane is too strong now that you're nerfed melee powers to get passed it! Waahh, nerf Hurricane so it's not Perma!!"
Storm Controller: "Learn how to play instead of whining, then you can beat me!"

Hmm. Deja Vu?

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I hate to point it out, since you enjoy acting like MoG's permastate is some martyr sacrificed on the bloody altar of Defender godlyhood, but when Moment of Glory got deperma'd, there were no Defender combos that could actually mez through intergration anyway.

And if you feel like Hurricane is equal to Moment of Glory, tell me how it fills my endurance bar and provides immortality to all but psi/toxic damage? I must have missed the mez protection.

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Int's toggles gets knocked off of me constantly and I get held. Why? Cause people can run up to me, punch me, and drop off my "godlike" toggle. If I could run up, punch, and knock off Hurricane then I'd be happy. My arms aren't long enough to reach past the hurricane that throws me back every time to knock it off though.

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I think I can sum up his point like this

"Waaaa, Regen got nerfed in the past, I'm too lazy to tailor my build, team and tactics to counter something that presents me a challenge in PvP, and therefore I want that challenge nerfed"

I think Kid might be more comfortable playing an FPS with godmode on. That seems like about the level of thought and effort he wants to expend on facing challenges in PvP here.

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Dys.. Sigh. No one likes to be nerfed. I've argued a point here with some rational people and others like yourself who will start name calling because you don't want to be nerfed.. Well. It happens. And when it does, you'll whine like I did with Regen and you'll think of every reason in the world you shouldn't have been nerfed that will make complete sense to you, complete nonsense to others, and in the end you'll be where I was and you'll have to deal with it like I did. IH and MoG are no longer perma. And because they're not, you live because of your now overpowered(like IH and MoG were overpowered). When you're nerfed and things aren't overpowered and we can fight equally with our wonderful clickie non perma uber powers, all will be good in the world.

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Okay, so you didn't take a mez from your primary. Somehow Stun Grenades 'won't work' for you, I assume blowing up in your hand or something. You aren't willing to get Teleport, you aren't willing to get Phase Shift, and you aren't willing to devote a lot of time to killing something. You're unwilling to team with a Dominator or a melee character who has tried any of the above solutions. Oh, and you somehow are unable to penetrate a hurricane, something my Claws/Regen can do without a travel power, Focus, or Moment of Glory. Did you know Moment of Glory has Repel resistance, btw?

And, because of all of these, you want Hurricane made useless. Does that sum it up?

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Sigh. Have Phase Shift.. Have Recall Friend. Have Fly. Team with people all the time. Have Mog, have to respec to use it cause it's "up there" in levels when I chose it. I know what MoG does. Know my powers... Know melee against a power that really doesn't allow melee to be used when it's on all the time.

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Cobra Strike is the power MA Regen's don't take.

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"I don't take the power that can mez the hurricane user and drop his hurricane and other toggles, but I want hurricane nerfed anyway."

"I'm unwilling to change my build to combat certain PvP tactics, so the devs must nerf the powers of others to fit my build"

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Umm. How about we nerf Hurricane first then I'll worry about choosing powers after the nerf? Sorta like you guys get to do now with MoG and IH nerfed for Scrappers? Then we can have even playing field of nerfs and all try to figure out how to survive with nerfs... I hate having to use MoG and IH over and over as an example of people who complained about my powers overcome their status powers, but your saying I should have to choose a specific melee power when I can't even get close enough to punch when I can't even use the once I have now??? Give me ranged attacks with toggle droppers and I'll be good. Or.. Make Hurricane a clickie with uberness like IH when it's up, then a wait time of 8-9 minutes to feel uber again. Then you can toss me around in the air all you want for 2.5 minutes then when you're clickie fades, I can toss you around. Sounds fair to me.

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Have you tried Stun Grenading the Stormer, or using the EMP glove? I hate to actually interject logic to your nerffest, but last I checked, no solo stormer can get mez protection, and the only self-heal they can get is Life Drain or Aid Self.

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Yes. They don't seem to work for me. I can't range attack, control, or heal others either. I'm not a blaster, controller or defender.

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I think you need to realize that PvP isnt ever going to be balanced for one on one battles. You have two choices as I see it. Accept the fact that you need team mates to deal with certain obstacles, or avoid PvP. Coming into a forum of an AT you dont seem to have any experience playing and [censored] and moaning about one power isnt going to do you anygood, unless your goal is to have people think of you as a whiner without the ability to adapt to something that actually provides a challenge to melee in PvP.

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I don't really care if I'm considered a whiner. I considered many controllers and defenders whiners when they came into to whine about Regen powers too. Guess we're even to call each other whiners now if need be. Shrugs.

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Have you tried Stun Grenading the Stormer, or using the EMP glove? I hate to actually interject logic to your nerffest, but last I checked, no solo stormer can get mez protection, and the only self-heal they can get is Life Drain or Aid Self.

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Yes. They don't seem to work for me. I can't range attack, control, or heal others either. I'm not a blaster, controller or defender.

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You're just exagerating Kid. All you need is some speed from a Travel Power and a couple passes with Build Up. Bare minimum, and it will work.

And as an MA Scrapper, you DO have CC, you have Cobra Strike and Eagles' Claw 60% of the time. It's easy enough to punch through with that.

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Cobra Strike is the power MA Regen's don't take. I've tried the run and hit and the perma blow back hasn't allowed it.

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Right now it's just way too overpowerered.


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It cracks me up that someone who has a regen scrapper and a stalker (save your breath I have both) is complaining about hurricane being too powerful.

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MA/Regen
Ninjitsu/Regen

Melee....

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You can lose the smirk. The myriad changes to MoG and IH -started- before the revised "giant monster" system. After that, continued nerfs occured because Regen scrappers were effectively tanking on invincible, and were distincitvely more effective at PvP then other builds. Each nerf was a little more questionable then the ones prior to it, because each time Regen was a little less absurd, but back when it all started, a solid regen build was pretty much unkillable.

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Which of course justifies making hyperbolic complains about what they were capable of in, say, issue 5.

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Hey, hey, don't misunderstand me, Kali, I wasn't -complaining- about anything they used to be able to do, and I never said they were doing that -recently-. Maybe I should've been clearer, but I wasn't trying to misrepresent anything.

What I was trying to do was make the point that the long fall of regen scrappers -began- because of a MASSIVE PVE imbalance, and I saw no evidence to imply that any of those changes were to curb the set for PvP concerns. IH and MoG both went through extensive changes over -several- issues because the devs were struggling to find the right "spot" for the AT.

It wasn't a PvP nerf as KidQuik seems to believe, it was the tail end of a very long-running struggle with the identity of the set. KQ is playing a little game of "let's rewrite history" here (or at least a game of "Conspiracy Theories 101"), and that bothered me, so I was perhaps a little more taciturn then I meant to be, but in no way was I trying to exaggerate what regenners have been -recently- capable of. Just stating facts.

Around the time Regenners were drawing the attention of the mighty nerf bat, I watched a fellow regen solo an overlevel Jurassik that had creamed the rest of our party. It took awhile, but he did it, and he was never in any real danger of being KO'd.

I also heard talk of other absurd things, but that's the shining example I personally experienced, and things like that are why Regen attracted the nerf bat. Perma MoG was unbalancing in PvE, and furthermore, was a disruption of the -concept- of regen. Perma IH was similarly unbalancing. Regenners could always run on invincible. Hell, -I- still can, I just have to be careful about it now. That is PvE imbalance, and that's why Regen got nerfed, not because of any PvP issues. That's -all- I was trying to get across.

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Yes and no. I died. I died alot prenerf. I didn't make uber MA/Regen cookie cutter slotted MoGed out scrapper to be invincible in PvE. For PvP I would have to steer that way. We repeatedly said to the powers that be, lower the healing rate of IH. And what did they do? They lowered heals to IH and then added heals to Int? What the hell??? Then they used the very bad excuse of and I don't remember the EXACT quote, but when they made IH a clicky it was because having IH as a toggle drained too much Endurance and now there wouldn't be that issue.... That was very laughable. So we become click builds and then throw ED on top of it, then after the fact, make powers use less stamina, it kinda made a lot of excuses even more invalid that they used. If there is a "balance vision" then things should be balanced. Not for some, but for all against each other. The whole idea to me is sad. But if that's the way it's supposed to be, then make it a fair playing field. Hurricane needs to be nerfed to be fair to those without the ability to throw rocks.