KidQwik

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So how do you fix the messed up contact pictures??

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I had messed up contact pictures with 6.3. I had one messed up contact picture with 6.4 but I haven't seen the problem in a few days. What version of Catalyst are you using? I know with 6.2 I didn't have any problems with contact pics.

Bill, you do a fine job. Sometimes people expect one person to give them their answers instead of not being lazy and looking around for additional answers or questions. There's a thing called Google that is really helpful for that. Please keep giving your advice and testing things. Many of us appreciation them and they work for us. While some just want things to work right away and when they don't they start being sarcastic for internal personal issues.. Ignore em.

6.4's are screwing up a few contact pics and garbling for me so far with the X850XT PE. Other than that, seem to be ok. One of my friends got a X850XT and said he bought a DVI cable to use with his Dell 21 inch LCD instead of using the VGA cable and has experienced much better FPS rates than with the VGA cable. Hear anything about this?

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once he does AS, it drops, he can be seen even without temp powers or buffs and killed very easily.

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Because this is a very stupid stalker that doesn't use Placate?

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Placate was nerfed in PvP recently. Placate now only works on the person it was cast. If that person is on a team, all the team members can now continue to see the stalker once Hide drops and placate is used. Only person that can't see the stalker or attack them now is just the Placated one.

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I don't even understand any of this. Why does everyone have to get jacked for pvp, because " it's not fair! "?? Why cant you just let the hurricaine folks pin their folks against the wall, let the stalker folks sneak up on people and slice them in half, let the controlling folks hold people like they do in the rest of the game, and let everybody just be what they thought they'd be when they signed up for their powers? We choose the powers we think are best, there's a reason for that. It is not so that the game will come along and make everybody the same!!

Dark Fantasm

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Agreed. And unnerf Regen so PermMog could come back and Instant Healing is a toggle again. :-b I'm all for the Golden Age of CoH.

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KidQwik:

Wheeee!

The Merry-Go-Round you're on is fun!

...but you're spinning. Face it.

First off, you're vastly overselling IR Goggles' effectiveness and vastly underselling the utility of Web Grenade and Stun Grenade to make your point. I know from personal experience that IR Goggles are not enough to see a Stalker using both Hide and Stealth. _Castle_ has even confirmed that it requires more than IR Goggles and Tactics together for a non-Defender to perceive a Stalker who is using Stealth and Hide. See _Castle_'s post on IR Goggles (click link), where he said "You are a Scrapper, no? Probably, these two powers [IR Goggles and Tactics] will not allow you to see a Hide+Stealth Stalker, *if* the Tactics is your power." In fact, I'd go so far as saying you are actually lying when you said "IR Goggles WORK. I have used them on my Scrapper, Blaster, and Peacebringer in SC and I have seen Stalkers without perception buffs applied to me by others..", because this claim cannot be true unless you wish to maintain that _Castle_ is lying about IR Goggles' effectiveness.

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Stalkers can choose to make their Hide even more superior by using TWO self powers. Yes you need tactics on yourself or from a team to see them. Hide however allows AS to effect ONE player. Hurricane effects not only the stormie that is using is, not only the people on his/her team, but also any hero not on the team with the stormie to protect them ALL. So it negates All melee attacks all behind Hurricane, not only the stormie. Overpowered. I never said Castle lied. If you said I said Statesman lied though, you'd be right on the money.. As for stun/web grenades, they are simply NOT effective like IR goggles. Would be nice to get to-hit figure on them from a dev about how suck they are.

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So much for your first attempted counterpoint.


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Touche!

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Second, you far too easily dismiss my point about "needing a team", but that was one of your own primary objections to Hurricane. You don't believe you should have to "rely on a team" to deal with Hurricane, but in your own post, you tell others that they have to rely on teams who have the Leadership Power Pool in order to deal with Stalkers' Assassin Strike. That's a double-standard, pure and simple. Add to this the fact that, again, _Castle_ has confirmed that it takes more than Tactics alone to perceive a Stalker who's using Hide and Stealth, and your point here is really out of gas anyway.

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I did not say GET ON A TEAM WITH SO AND SO TO TAKE OUT STALKERS. You don't need a team to take out a stalker. I said they could either have tactics themselves OR from a team. Or have IR Goggles. Needless to say, Tactics counters Superior Hide, team or no team. There is no "team" or nonteam power that can be cast on a melee toon that doesn't have a resist repell effect to walk past hurricane. MoG cannot be used in SC. And since I have a non regen Stalker there is nothing to use against Hurricane. Even in Warburg, my supposed uber clickie power(that crashes and make me vulnerable mind u) doesn't have resist repell powers.

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So much for your second attempted counterpoint.


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Touche 2.

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Face it. You're adhering to a double standard when it comes to Hurricane. You tell others they have to rely on teams to deal with Stalkers' Hide, but apparently what's good for the goose is not good for the gander, and you don't think Stalkers should have to rely on teams to deal with Hurricane. That's a double standard, pure and simple. You argue that Stalkers should not have to rely on "unreliable" temporary powers such as Web Grenade or Stun Grenade to deal with Hurricane, yet you tell others that they should rely on IR Goggles to deal with Stalkers' Hide, even when a Developer, _Castle_, has said IR Goggles are inadequate for the job. Again, apparently what's good for others is not good enough for Stalkers. This is yet another double standard.


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Misinterpreted words in my mouth u put. Hurricane is one power. Stealth+Hide = 2 powers use to enhance ONE ability. Hurricane = one power used that has no Power Pool or temp power to respec into that counters it. As I said before Stun/Webs grenades are inadequate. I have a strong feeling the devs would agree they're not so great to begin with(devs?). IR goggles work against Hide alone. Hide+Stealth needs Tactics. Tactics alone counters both. Where's the power by itself that truely works against Hurricane either a temp or powerpool accessible to all that I could respec and get that will work. Does Acrobatics do that? I need to double check that.

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And this doesn't even address the point that Assassin's Strike outright kills people in one shot; all Hurricane does is impede your ability to one-shot a Defender.

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It does much more then impedes a stalkers ability to one shot the hurricane using defender.

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No one power should be able to control the battle field for one side or the other.

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i assure you, kid, if a stormer showed up in SC and started prancing around with nothing but his hurricane on he'd be ganked in seconds.

it takes more than hurricane to win a battle.

a lot more.

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Not true. Stormie comes into zone, every hero in the zone seems to run to the stormie with hurricane turned on to protect them ALL.

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The game is all about tactics and counters.

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And the tactics and counters required for the old Hurricane were abnormally specific when compared to the tactics and counters required for almost everything else. If you want the game to require more precise tactics and more specific counters, I'm all for it, so long as it's not JUST Hurricane. But you seemed to be happy with it being JUST Hurricane in that regard, and I don't agree with that.

I'm okay with just disagreeing on that matter. I'm not happy with MOST Archetypes being very, very general in what it takes to counter them, and one or two being substantially more specific. You seem to like it. That's fine.

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What sort of nonsense. Nonsense such as viable counters? Nonsense such as maybe bringing some teammates to help stop this stormer that is most likely teamed?

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Nonsense such as needing pretty specific team mates. Against almost any other powerset, sure I'd need team mates at times, but almost any SORT of team mate would do. That's much, much less true of Hurricane, and that's what I felt was nonsense.

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The repel and melee safe zone...

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Mobile safe zones you can fire from shouldn't exist. I don't agree with the existence of "safe zones" The sheer fact you'd CALL it that just reinforces my point. You're free to disagree, but I've got nothing further to say on the existence of mobile safe zones created by powers. I don't feel speaking about them strengthens your case.

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That's been my argument all along with Hurricane "tactics". Haveing to get so and so on your team, change your travel powers, spend inf on web and strun grenades that don't work, are specifics. There is no other power(except bubbles) where you are required to "get a team with a blaster or someone with mez" to take out ONE defensive power. Even Mog, Hide after any attack, Phase Shift, Quantum Flight, Inv, etc all drop when used or their click duration expires and then has a long recharge. Hurricane needs to be brought more in line with this powers along with bubbles.

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First of all you are applying a double standard. You said that you didnt think it was right that everyone has to change tactics just to accomadate one power, and that the one power can so drastically turn the tide of battle. A stalker can do that. Teams DO adjust their tactics to deal with them and a stalker with as CAN drastically alter the tide of battle.


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People have to have tactics in dealing with Stalkers. They can either get goggles, jump around, use tactics, etc. All these things CAN thwart a Stalkers Hide because a Stalker can't just stand still and not hit someone, and once he does AS, it drops, he can be seen even without temp powers or buffs and killed very easily. A stalker has a risk by using AS while hidden. It drops. There goes his power to not be seen and he is vulnerable because he used another power. Many stormies use just Hurricane and run around with it on. Even if stormy uses another power it doesn't drop. And there is no incentive to use any other powers to have it drop if it was made to do that because that ONE power which is continously on which is a toggle, effectively negates all melee attacks that can't get past it. That's all they need to use. There is no penalization like stalkers have when they AS and hide drops, or Inv or Mog drops, or if an elec blaster uses Thunderous blast and all his end is gone and he can't regain end for a bit without popping blues on top of all his toggles have dropped... Hurricane stays on and does it's overpowered job. One power. All the stormie needs to use if he so choices with no penalty for over use like the others.

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Secondly there are powers that melee have that ignore hurricannes repel and -acc. I believe rage from invul. does this. I remember when the arenas first came out a invul/mace tank friend of mine walked right through hurricanne like it wasnt even there and stunned me. i could be wrong, but iirc mog also negates the repel. Any power that gives a large bonus to tohit will negate the -tohit on hurricanne. SO there are inherent options to melee.

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Most of these powers are clicks which drop or can't be used in SC. I know MoG can't because it's too high to use in SC(if i remember correctly). If they made Hurricane a higher level power that could be used in Warburg and the higher level PvP zones that came out that would work(but I think that wouldn't be fair for Stormies either to be honest). I know they did it some villains powers intially where they swapped one power to a lower power and made a lower power a higher power. Too late though in the game to do that. However, even if it was the case that Hurricane could be used only in the higher zones along with the powers that could counter it, even then MoG has a long recharge as well as the others. That's fine though, because at least then they have the powers to be able to use there against hurricane even if i has a loing recharge. Then you'd have hurricane running all the time there too. So maybe a click for it and bubblers would be an equal compromise. If a scrapper can't perma those clicks because of the long recharge times and have to use other powers, maybe making hurricane a click where stormies would have to use other powers is fair too.

Here's my suggestion in how to fairly nerf hurricane:

Keep Hurricane a toggle. Give it it's prenerf powers in PvP. However.. Make it have no control of movement. When it's turned on, it makes the toon have no ability to control movement and it will move on it's own without control by the player using it. Sort of like a REAL hurricane would do. Their movements are sporadic and unpredictable (See Katrina). This way all the toons hiding behind it will have to work to keep up with the Stormies random movements and the Stormie will sometimes have to drop Hurricane or fall off a buildings or wander into enemy mobs. Many times toons are tossed into enemy mobs with Hurricane on purpose. Why not make the power like so many other powers that were nerfed and be not so God like? Make it a nice power to have on while it's going, but like many other powers, it can have consequences in using too(see click powers that drop and you have no End, your toggles drop, or you health drops when click expires). I think this would be a good way to make the power be similiar to ther other "uh oh, my clickie just dropped and I need to run for a minute or die". It would require all toons hiding behind hurricane have to do more then stand behind hurricane and do ranged attacks or just sit there behind it. Even stalkers have to work to AS or hit ATs if they have IT Goggles or tactics applied to them. Hurricane shouldn't be given able to be turned on and that's the only power the stormy really uses in PvP except their travel power when it drops. They have an assortment of other powers to use beside one bread and butter power. No one power should be able to control the battle field for one side or the other. I think this would be a fair way to keep hurricane unnerfed power wise, but make it a power like so many other powers that can also have it's disadvantages in using.

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If a person shouldn't "have to [. . .] waste inf on non working temp powers", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "waste inf on non working temp powers" like IR Goggles "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?


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IR Goggles WORK. I have used them on my Scrapper, Blaster, and Peacebringer in SC and I have seen Stalkers without perception buffs applied to me by others.. In regards to Web and Stun grenades which have a very low ACC on them, they have never worked on any Stormie unbuffed, never mind any other AT I've used them on just to get rid of them because all they seem to do is blow up and miss. The "grenades" in PvP suck, plain and simple. IR Toggles work though. If they increase the ACC on grenades to hit all the time and Stun and knock off Hurricane then you can keep Hurricane unnerfed because there will be an effective temp power to use against hurricane like their is an effective temp power to use against stalkers.

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If a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have range or mez", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have" +Perception powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

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See above post about effective single temp power to use against Stalkers, no team needed.

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If a person shouldn't have to "change travel powers", then you'd agree with me that people shouldn't have to "change travel powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?


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Totally agree here. No one should have to change a travel power to deal with a single power. There is a distinct difference in jumping all around mindlessly to avoid a stalker's AS than there is to jump and try to place a precision placed punch on the head to knock off hurricane which most likely won't happen because you'll be repelled or ACC debuffed so much as to not hit anyway.. Jumping around to avoid stalkers mean a stalker will have to work to AS or even hit you as well.

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These were your words, by the way, not mine. Your logic certainly applies equally to Assassin's Strike as it does Hurricane.


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See above comment.

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So the next time Stalkers come out and tell people to buy IR Goggles to defend themselves from Assassin's Strike, you'll be right there on the forefront arguing against those people... right? The next time Stalkers come out and tell people that they "just need to team" to avoid Assassin's Strike one-shots, you'll be right there arguing as passionately against them as you're arguing here... right? The next time Stalkers tell people that they need to "just use their travel powers more unpredictably", I should expect to see you in the thread posting again and again about why that's wrong... right?

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Wrong. I never would say that because there is an effective temp power to purchase against stalkers. It's the first thing I buy in SC if the temp power is available. If it's not, I constantly jump around, fly, SS, or SJ(all depends on what toon I'm on) or do Dragon's Tail on my scrapper all the time to try to hit them if I can't see them and they may be around me.
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Given your own logic for nerfing Hurricane, imagine my shock when I found the following post (click link):

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I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate. (emphasis mine)

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I'd sure hate to see you applying a double standard... That would just be wrong, wouldn't it?

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I'm not applying a double standard. As I said above a few times, there is an effective temp power against Hide. If I had tactics or someone on the team had tactics, I could see them too. That power would effect the whole team. There isn't a power someone can cast on a melee or whole team to simply walk right up to a stormy using hurricane and hit them, is there??? But there are two powers that can effectively see a stalker that you can purchase or have cast on you and it works on ranged or melee toons. Is there an anti-hurricane power that can be applied to toons?? I don't even think Vengeance does that.

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Um wow. Kid you need to start thinking in combat. First of all it isn't Hurricane that is unbalanced its the fact your team is unbalanced. 8 man melee team?? I suppose I should put together a 8 man team of healers and whine like a 5 year old to the devs. Why can't I kill these tanks? Wah poor me I can't think why that could be. I would be sooooooooo happy if they trashed pvp tomorrow. It continues to do nothing but destroy the game for the majority of us.


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All other ATs have at least a fair chance of at hitting one another(except say those bubbled) and effecting one another regardless of melee or range. To say that an 8 mean team of melee shouldn't have a fair chance at dealing with one toon running one power is not balance.

As for PvP ruinining our toons.. Yes, if it effects PvE too which it has, then nerfs aren't a good thing. I think nerfs do need to happen in PvP simply because our powers and our ATs weren't made to be equal in PvP because they were based on PvE. Depending on what powersets you choose for your AT, you served this or that role in PvE. How is a healer supposed to compete in PvP? They were meant to heal in PvE so for someone who chose all healing and buffing powers and either didn't choose or didn't have much to choose from with offensive dmg powers, how are they supposed to defeat people in PvP?? I've always thought there should be two seperate ways powers function in PvE and PvP. We're talking about nerfs that didn't happen for over a year into CoH until Arena came about and were told "we didn't nerf because of PvP" which is a bunch of crap. How do you balance in PvP? It needs to be done in a way that each AT has a chance at taking out another AT in someway shape or form, but how do they do this without screwing up what your AT is supposed to be to begin with? No easy solution. I don't think nerfing things should apply to PvE powers unless they are far overpowered for PvE. Things like herding a massive amount of mobs with Dreck was an exploit(I guess) and should have been lowered. Shrugs. I dunno. Depends if u ask a tank.. Or a regen scrapper. Or a stormie. Everyone needs to try and look at their own AT fairly in PvP and look beyond "I like my toon just the way he/she is!" and look at the dynamics of all the other ATs and situations. Sure I didn't like my Regen nerfed in PvP AND PvE, but I've learned to live with my new set of multiple click powers that all do the same thing... Heal. Self Empathy am I, I guess. But now they broke the powers and how they worked originally and homogenized them all. Sigh.

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This is getting dull.

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Now take your medicine and like it!

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OK, it's dull, and you're flame bait. Lots of the nerfs were unneeded. Storm already was needlessly weak relative to other sets. They got hit extra hard. Regardless of whether you agree or not, they did. As hard as Tanks did before, and as hard as regen did. None of the sets needed it, and whether or not it will be admitted to by the devs (it won't), it was because of PVP and the wildly obnoxious and vocal component of hardcore PVPers.

As for taking medicine, I think you need some to stop the keyboard diaherea problem you seem to be having.

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I agree to your comments about many powers being nerfed for PvP. I've always said the same thing and the bs the devs have said on why it's done. Regen also got the "it'll save stamina to make IH a click" nonsense. Regen has Stamina and QR! Reduce end enhancements worked great if you used them on top of that. Endurance was never an issue! So no, I don't like nerfs to begin with. But because of nerfs to other powers, they have to nerf even more powers to make thing more balanced. I think hurricane needed to be nerfed for PvP. Not for PvE, because it never really seemed to work that great when Tsoo Sorcerers used it against my stalker.
Shrugs. Guess you guys will have to learn to live with the nerf. Go yell at Statesman though. He's the much more fun to loathe than me.

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i dunno...

your tenacity seems to suggest you get very excited by nerfs.

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Only when they are powers that I think are overpowered for PvP. I didn't get excited about suppression or tanker nerfs. I didn't get really excited when they nerfed Phase Shift or my Peacebringer's Quantum flight. I didn't get excited when the nerfed MoG. For IH I got into name calling and stuff similiar to what some Stormies have done when Hurricane got nerfed.
I feel your nerf pain, my main hero is a Regen Scrapper I've had since prelease of CoH. So talk about having the "adapt". I do feel that Hurricane needed to be nerfed for PvP though just like IH and MoG were. I don't really even fight hero to hero so saying it's wanting revenge is kinda pointless. I can sit on a ledge as a stalker and watch below what one power that one player has on is pwning countless players with and come to my conclusions from that alone if I needed to.

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This is getting dull.

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Now take your medicine and like it!

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No.

I already got hit by the IH nerfs. The last of which was a poorly thought out solution for a number of reasons. The travesty that is the IH clicky does not justify another poor solution.

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i agree.

this was not an appropriate solution to the purported problem.

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I agree too. They could have reduced the power of IH and left it a toggle. Why they ever added heals to Integration was a completely dumb thing to do. Integration shouldn't have anything to do with heals! They should have left Int the way it is, weakened IH and left it a toggle, voila. But the devs don't think rationally like that. They think extreme make no good sense nerf sense.

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This is getting dull.

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Now take your medicine and like it!

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OK, it's dull, and you're flame bait. Lots of the nerfs were unneeded. Storm already was needlessly weak relative to other sets. They got hit extra hard. Regardless of whether you agree or not, they did. As hard as Tanks did before, and as hard as regen did. None of the sets needed it, and whether or not it will be admitted to by the devs (it won't), it was because of PVP and the wildly obnoxious and vocal component of hardcore PVPers.

As for taking medicine, I think you need some to stop the keyboard diaherea problem you seem to be having.

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I agree to your comments about many powers being nerfed for PvP. I've always said the same thing and the bs the devs have said on why it's done. Regen also got the "it'll save stamina to make IH a click" nonsense. Regen has Stamina and QR! Reduce end enhancements worked great if you used them on top of that. Endurance was never an issue! So no, I don't like nerfs to begin with. But because of nerfs to other powers, they have to nerf even more powers to make thing more balanced. I think hurricane needed to be nerfed for PvP. Not for PvE, because it never really seemed to work that great when Tsoo Sorcerers used it against my stalker.
Shrugs. Guess you guys will have to learn to live with the nerf. Go yell at Statesman though. He's the much more fun to loathe than me.

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This is getting dull.

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Now take your medicine and like it!

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Sigh. Accept your nerf and learn to live with it. There are many other people out there who play different ATs that have had to alter their play style against their will for PvP nerfs. You're just a new member to the Club of Nerf and will learn to "adapt".

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i love it.

"adapt."

this, from the guy who refuses to lift a finger to do anything to fight a storm.

"adapt."

you mean, like PMing cuppa and asking for a nerf?

is that how we adapt?

thanks for the advice, man.

brilliant.

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You gotta be kidding. I'm not the player who stands there using one power and one power only except if it drops, then you use a travel power to haul [censored]... That's sort of a more of a refusual to diversify, adapt, or lift a finger if you ask me.

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nope.

you're the player who refuses to question his build, refuses to intelligently employ temp powers, refuses to diversify his team...etc.

i dunno man...seems the only thing you've done to "adapt" is call for a nerf.

gratz on that.

way to adapt.

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You just proved my point why hurricane needed the nerf bat. All those things melee is supposed to do for ONE power? Why? Cause you should be able to use one power and that's it while everyone else should have to do x amount of things like waste inf on non working temp powers, form teams that have range or mez, change travel powers, etc, ALL to deal with ONE power???? Why it needed to be nerfed. Come to Justice, let my Stalker give u a hug.

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problem is, man, you're not talking about a single power.

you're talking about the problem YOU had killing squishies when youre team went up against another team.

the only thing you noticed was hurricane.

you missed the mez protection, missed the heals and missed the damage coming in from the other team.

it wasn't your team against hurricane.

it was your team against theirs...and they brought a lot to the table. you can too with a little work.

trust me, i've seen it happen.

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No. I'm talking about problems the team had taking out a Stormie with like 2 people on his/her team with more people on my team on numerous occasions. I'm not talking about mez protection that didn't happens, I'm not talking about buffs that didn't happen, I'm talking about players who couldn't even get near to touch someone with hurricane so the Stormy didn't even need heals. When 8 people who are melee are surrounding a stormy and can't touch him, that's a problem. Seem people pinned against walls and corners and bus stops is a problem. The devs think so too. I think it is/was/maybe still is overpowered in PvP. No one AT should have to turn on a toggle and just stand there and just use one power.

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In MMO's I've found that when you have a numerically superior force, and are consistantly beaten then you need to seriously take a look at two likely explainations.

1.) They are much better players than you and your team. It happens alot, there will always be someone better than you. It's hard to accept, but it's there.

or

2.) The other players are average, but your team are a bunch of mindless fools. Even harder to accept, but it's still there.

Which one are you? Eight people continually trying to run up to a debuff / repel field and melee?

You tell me.

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I guess it would be similiar to 8 players running up to someone turning on the non nerfed phase shift, MoG, or IH. Perma God mode was nerfed. Like I said, they could have made it a click! They may still! I know nerfs suck, but you could have got the nerf bat swung a lot harder than no longer being able to toss everyone around all the time.

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Sigh. Accept your nerf and learn to live with it. There are many other people out there who play different ATs that have had to alter their play style against their will for PvP nerfs. You're just a new member to the Club of Nerf and will learn to "adapt".

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i love it.

"adapt."

this, from the guy who refuses to lift a finger to do anything to fight a storm.

"adapt."

you mean, like PMing cuppa and asking for a nerf?

is that how we adapt?

thanks for the advice, man.

brilliant.

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You gotta be kidding. I'm not the player who stands there using one power and one power only except if it drops, then you use a travel power to haul [censored]... That's sort of a more of a refusual to diversify, adapt, or lift a finger if you ask me.

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this is like talking to the wall.

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I think it's more like two walls talking to each other. :-)

Sigh. Accept your nerf and learn to live with it. There are many other people out there who play different ATs that have had to alter their play style against their will for PvP nerfs. You're just a new member to the Club of Nerf and will learn to "adapt".

Yes, I do. Storm never reads all mine and I continuously rehash them after what I had said was ignored. I guess Stone didn't read all my other posts or address those points either in a way other than someone desperately trying to not have their power nerfed. My previous posts state my reasonings for nerfing hurricane and each time I say the same thing over and over, I get a reply back from someone whose power that they don't want nerfed give me a laundry list of things of things to do that are too extensive to take out ONE power. Many of the other single powers that are/were over powered were nerfed. No one likes the, yada yada. I guess I could say to Stormies now "get a team to hide behind since they hid behind you" but they won't see the fairness in that either even when I've been told "get a team to take out a stormie". Balance in PvP, even though it's sort of broken in many ways in this game to begin with since ATs and powersets were made for PvE will require nerfs. Will it ever be perfect? No. I'd never expect an empathy healer to be able to Heal her opponent to death. But somehow, someway, he/she should have a chance at defeating, not just constantly tossing another toon around, an opponent. Now Stormies will have to make use of their other powers more, slot them appropriately(like I keep being told), etc etc. Same rules and annoyances should apply to all.

Hurricane was nerfed to make it less abusive. It still works sorta like all the other powers that were still nerfed still work sorta. Join the club. It could have been wacked a lot harder and it still may given the way the devs work. Now Stormies can use more then one power in PvP like every AT should HAVE to do.

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problem is, man, you're not talking about a single power.

you're talking about the problem YOU had killing squishies when youre team went up against another team.

the only thing you noticed was hurricane.

you missed the mez protection, missed the heals and missed the damage coming in from the other team.

it wasn't your team against hurricane.

it was your team against theirs...and they brought a lot to the table. you can too with a little work.

trust me, i've seen it happen.

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No. I'm talking about problems the team had taking out a Stormie with like 2 people on his/her team with more people on my team on numerous occasions. I'm not talking about mez protection that didn't happens, I'm not talking about buffs that didn't happen, I'm talking about players who couldn't even get near to touch someone with hurricane so the Stormy didn't even need heals. When 8 people who are melee are surrounding a stormy and can't touch him, that's a problem. Seem people pinned against walls and corners and bus stops is a problem. The devs think so too. I think it is/was/maybe still is overpowered in PvP. No one AT should have to turn on a toggle and just stand there and just use one power.

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oh, we're talking ONLY IN SIREN'S CALL here...

so...no epics.

so...no storms with mez protection.

well then...

did you try using focused chi before launching your stun grenade?

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Once again.. MA/Regen Scrapper, Siren's Call. Siren's Call is heroes vs villains. Scrapper is a hero. Can't fight other heroes. My Stalker doesn't have Focus Chi. My Stalker has wasted tons of Inf on useless stun and web grenades. Hurricane alters the battlefield way too much. You shouldn't need a whole team to take out one power. No one power should be able to run continuously and make them almost untouchable(and I really do mean untouchable as in can't get near them to be able to hit them) because a toon doesn't have ranged attacks or super speed, etc. Even with tanks and scrappers there toggles can be more easily dropped by using Brawl. With hurricane, you can't get close enough to use Brawl.

I haven't gone on test to see how the effective the changes are but just because some people are complaining about them, doesn't mean they are good enough. When Tsoo Sorcerers use Hurricane you at LEAST have a chance to get close to them and hit them. Not with toons in PvP.

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i'll repeat myself because i bear repeating:

YOU DON'T NEED A WHOLE TEAM TO TAKE OUT ONE POWER.

you need to adapt.

you simply refuse to do so.

instead, you prefer to ask for a nerf.

i mean no disprespect man, but this isn't good for the game.

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Dude. I'm not the only one that says it needed to be nerfed. The devs did too. Not that the devs are always right, not that I'm always right, but on this one it's overly obvious that something needed to be done to Hurricane in PvP. Adapting should not involve having to do a multitude of things of things to take out a single power. They could have nerfed hurricane a hell of a lot more, but they didn't (yet). Now Stormies will have to rely on multiple powers a bit more then besides one. That's fair adaption. The others ATs do it.