Hot_Head_Mike

Originally Posted by Noxilicious

You know, if pretty much everyone except you thinks that you were spamming people

Originally Posted by danomal

nothing wrong with inviting people to your SG. This guy was being a jerk. "/r no thanks" takes less than a second to type.

That said you should have stopped responding and added him to ignore once it was apparent he was going to be rude.

Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen

Yeah, I'm getting the impression based on both the OP and Mike's subsequent responses in this thread that:

1: He doesn't handle criticism well.
2: He's not interested in any discussion or feedback on this subject
3: Despite the thread not going the way he seemed to expect, and replies being pretty much overwhelmingly critical of his SG recruiting methods, he has already made up his mind that he is right & anyone who feels differently is wrong or overly sensitive about 'spam'.

Oh well. To each their own.

Originally Posted by _eeek_

Hi, Mike, you got an interesting thread started here! I think some replies might be a little at cross-purposes, though. Here is what is coming across to me:

-You sound like a fairly new player - not brand spankin' new, but not a vet, either (and if so, welcome!)

-You are full of enthusiasm and desire to get things rolling, meet new people, and put people together. (and if so, double great!)

-You are not the sort of person to hang back, and wait for fun to happen to you. You take the initiative and create fun and friendships. (TRIPLE great!)

You really sound like your heart and your intentions are all in the right place. I think I hear you saying a bit of "but wait... I really think I'm right here! This WORKS!" You sound like you have pulled together a lot of people, and I'm guessing they're newer players who might not have any real idea where to start to meet people, and get involved. I really do wish there were maybe something established to do exactly that, and if you are able to do it, that is fabulous! Seriously, God bless ya!

So I think you might not be quite understanding some of the responses that you've been getting, and it has nothing to do with what is - or isn't - spam. What people are reacting to is that in THIS game (maybe it's fine in other games) recruiting sight unseen is bad manners. Blind invites to sg's is just something Is Not Done. If you ARE doing it, then you are immediately suspect, and thought of as either a) a goof who doesn't know better (and who wants to join an sg by someone who doesn't know what they're doing?), or b) a jerk/user/creepy guy preying on newbies. This comes from personal experiences or word of mouth about people who are just looking for prestige for their sg's, and have used nice people, and treated them like meat. And that's how you come across, using your approach. Maybe not elsewhere. But here, yes.

The vast majority of people in this particular game are the nicest people you'll ever want to meet. Just amazing people! But they are not weak, spineless nice. Well, they are superheroes! But not only that, they are aware that they are the vast majority here, and just don't tolerate the jerks. You don't have to stop all the good stuff you're doing. Not at all! Just modify your approach in such a way that you don't come across badly.

Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween

Wow. ADD much? You re-quote a message of mine you've already responded to without reading, and then quote one of your own messages.

Whatever. At this point it's clear you either aren't reading what people are telling you, or you're willfully ignoring it. Either way, I'm done trying to have a conversation with you.

Originally Posted by Hot_Head_Mike

But you see I know the definition of spam. What is good about sending tells is that there is no need to delete them. There is no need to decline them. Nothing that takes effort has to be done, this is why I don't qualify a single tell to characters being Spam - undesired communication/low quality meat.

I have no problem keeping my SG "full". I keep it steady the way I'm running it now. I have usual squad of 8 people on and I like it that way. I invite more people to revitalize it just in case people stop playing that character for long stretches of time. Growth is the key to success here, and well lets just say were growing exponentially

Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween

You're still arguing over the definition, and not the intent. Spamming is a verb, and when people say that you're spamming, they generally mean you're rapidly sending out useless information. (Repeating the same thing in chat twenty five times.) However, it can also mean "the act of sending out spam."

Spam is a noun, and in this case is being used to refer to "an unsolicited and undesired communication." (It's also a potted meat product, sort of like a giant hot dog in a can, but that's not the definition we're dealing with here.) In this game, a spam is any tell, invite, or email that a person didn't want to receive.

When you send out a wave of blind invites to characters you've never met, you are spamming them. In the same way that an email junkmailer is spamming people when they send out a thousand spam mails, even though each target only sees one of those.

And part of the reason you have a hard time keeping your SG "full" is the way you're inviting people. You try to recruit anything with a pulse. Many of those people that do join will look around, decide they don't like what they see, and quit. You *will* have better results if you stick to people that you've actually met in-game. Really, WHY would you want to invite random people you've never met?

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

If that were true you wouldn't be spamming SG invites in the first place. The only thing keeping you from getting hit by the ban stick sooner is the simple fact that most people will ignore/1 star you rather than petition you.

Sooner or later tho you'll stumble across people who are willing to file petitions and a GM, after looking at the way you spam invites in rapid succession, will take some sort of action. Probably flagging your account and giving you a warning the first time, but if he sees you behaving like you said you did in your first post he may skip that and go to something more severe like a temp suspension.

Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja

That right there constitutes spamming, sending one character a tell does not constitute spamming, sending the same tell to multiple characters does.

Here's a situation:

<eating dinner>
<phone rings>
Me: Hello?
BU&U: "Hi, this is Joe Schmoe with BU&U and we have some great new services th..."
Me: No thank you and I really don't have the time, I'm eating dinner."
BU&U "Well, I certainly und..."
Me: <click>
<phone rings>
Me: Hello?
Daily Rag: "Good evening, I'm calling you to offer you a great deal on the Daily Rag, for just...
ME: Don't want it, thanks.
Daily Rag: "Any particular reason why?"
Me: You comics section is only half a page.
Daily Rag: o.O?
Me: <click>
<phone rings>

See where I'm going?

While, each of them only called me once (today,) I can guaranty you that they called 30, 40, 100 more people. That is spamming. Oh and how I wish I had an ignore button on my phone.

Needless to say when I played on Champion more, I used to get so many blind SG tells/invites that I put in my search comment that "No, I don't want to join your SG, tells/blind SG invites will be /ignored."

Originally Posted by Mandu

Either way I don't send snarky tells to somebody who blind invites me to a super group. I just put them on ignore instantly. Past experience has taught me that they will likely invite me again sometime in the next hour or next day because if they are blind inviting then they have usually forgotten who they have already sent tells to within that period of time.

Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween

You're still arguing over the definition, and not the intent. Spamming is a verb, and when people say that you're spamming, they generally mean you're rapidly sending out useless information. (Repeating the same thing in chat twenty five times.) However, it can also mean "the act of sending out spam."

Spam is a noun, and in this case is being used to refer to "an unsolicited and undesired communication." (It's also a potted meat product, sort of like a giant hot dog in a can, but that's not the definition we're dealing with here.) In this game, a spam is any tell, invite, or email that a person didn't want to receive.

When you send out a wave of blind invites to characters you've never met, you are spamming them. In the same way that an email junkmailer is spamming people when they send out a thousand spam mails, even though each target only sees one of those.

And part of the reason you have a hard time keeping your SG "full" is the way you're inviting people. You try to recruit anything with a pulse. Many of those people that do join will look around, decide they don't like what they see, and quit. You *will* have better results if you stick to people that you've actually met in-game. Really, WHY would you want to invite random people you've never met?

Originally Posted by Mandu

Here is the way I look at it. I'm at a basketball court and just hanging out. Somebody comes up and says "We're getting together a pick up game. Want in?"

That is an invite to a team and I'm likely to say yes since I'm just looking for a game or two and I don't really care if they suck or not since it is just a game or two.

Scenario two. I'm at a basketball court and somebody walks up and says "Want to join my basketball team? We're in a league and even have jerseys made up."

This is like the blind invite to a supergroup only instead of saying league and jerseys they usually say bins and teleporters. And my response is the same which is "Why the hell would you ask me that when I've never even met you before this moment? You musts really suck to blindly invite somebody to join you for an indefinite period of time not even knowing if he knows how to dribble a ball without tripping over his own feet." Now I won't actually say that unless they press the issue but that's my instant emotional response.

Asking somebody to team is asking them to join you for a short time. Asking them to a super group is asking them to make a commitment for a long period of time to a person they have never met. Now if somebody asks me to join their sg after we've done a few missions together that's fine. I've gotten to know them enough to figure out if they are worth grouping with or are just looking for a prestige boost because nobody else wants to be in a group with them.

Originally Posted by White Hot Flash

To most people, asking folks out of the blue to join your SG is not wanted, whether you ask nicely or just blind invite them.

Why would you want to invite every person under level ten without even teaming with them once? You'll get much better responses if you just run a few missions with someone first, and then ask them if they'd like to join. Saves the trouble of inviting them and then having to boot half of them when they screw around. People are more likely to join you when they know what you're about first.

The respondent could have handled it a bit better, but it only escalated because you pushed it. Take their no and move on.

Originally Posted by Ironblade

(shrug) You were a jerk first in that exchange.
And I certainly don't call it "spamming" when I receive *ONE* message from someone.

edit: On re-reading it, I'm not sure which messages are from the OP. Not that it really matters. Both were unpleasant.

Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards

My discussion would've ended with the second line being "No thanks."

Originally Posted by Electric-Knight

In...polite...

Not polite... but... INpolite!!


Haha
Sorry, just popped into my mind (in reference to the infamous bit).
(It's impolite)

Anyways, haha...

Since you posted this and ask the open forum here...

I honestly thought you were the one receiving the tell and calling the teller the rude one... And I was right on the same page as that.

So... No. In my opinion, you were impolite.
If you really want to send tells to recruit (No, that is not an inherently rude thing to do) I'd prefer some actual friendly, politeness...
I don't understand why people are without any politeness with tells.

Hi there! Pardon me, I don't mean to bother you, but I was wondering if you're looking for a good SG to join

Feel free to say things in your own ways, but I generally like to say Hello to people and either make sure they're interested or apologize if I just assume so.

When they replied that they have an SG already... You just explained your excuse for not knowing that before sending the tell. Instead, try saying "I'm sorry..." and then explain, if you wish. And, why not type out "before" instead of b4? Is it really that difficult? Not everyone meshes well with that style of typing, so it doesn't do you much benefit.

Also... Many people prefer to join SG's based on some knowledge and experience with the people involved. Just up and joining any old SG that sends invites to unknown players can be a big turn off for them.
You don't know if they have similar interests at all.

Seriously, what you posted is you doing wrong, not the other person.
The other person was having a bit of fun with it, in calling out the problems of that recruitment method. They may not have been as nice as could be, but I didn't see anything really wrong.

Best of luck!

Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween

And email spammers often point out that people getting the spam "just need to hit delete." The reason all of my characters are hidden from searches is that not responding DOES NOT WORK. If I don't reply, I usually get the invite again. (Since I clearly must have clicked Decline by mistake.) But hey, if you can't see how it's rude, then I don't need to explain why I tend to use /ignore rather than /reply on people who do that to me, either.

Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen

It's in the AE building, of course!

Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen

How can you make a successful SG by randomly inviting players you know absolutely nothing about? It may not be your intention, but it certainly sends the message of someone who doesn't care about the kind of players in the SG, but only about getting as many members as possible to grind out prestige.

Honestly, if I was looking for an SG, your recruiting tactics would steer me away from your group completely.

Originally Posted by Valerika

They don't have to be long-known friends, but they should at least know you a *little* before you ask. Try talking to someone for 5 minutes and/or teaming with them and then sending a tell saying (for example):

"Hey (whoever), I like your style, you seem like a good fit for our SG. (insert example of something they do that you like or find positive to butter them up) Interested? If so, I can send you some info?"

They may not say yes, but it beats the heck out of sending a tell to someone you've never met before and asking them to join something. You'll get better results, and people will be less likely to ignore/one-star/call you a spammer. And, it ensures you get quality people on your SG rather than cows on a prestige farm.

Originally Posted by Scythus

I personally think a tell is far more polite than no tell at all.