Golden Girl
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Posts
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Joined
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So now you can't delay social interaction any longer
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Quote:There are normal players too who leave for various reasons too, so they're always welcome to come backOriginally Posted by Donna_
Ok so Double Xp is super tyvm....
But why the reactivation on expired accounts ?? All that happens is all the Aholes that have left the game because of PvP 2.0 come flooding back to moan about it for free.
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You can't hide forever
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Moving hair.
And lots more polygons for our avatars, so we lose the sharp edges
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Quote:Just trying to make the potential loyalists see that there's room for moral grayness in GR - they're not going to have to grow moustaches to fit inOriginally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
You Tyrant apologist!
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Welcome home
The main thing is that we're getting I17 before GR comes out:
http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/new...and_going.html
Plus 2XP at the start of next month
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Quote:No, it means, literally, "no rule"Originally Posted by Sterling
Anarchy means, literally, self-rule. .
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Quote:Evil doesn't just mean twirling your moustache and enjoying what you're doingOriginally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Actually, we've been trying, but you keep bringing up the fact that he's evil, because the devs say so. So, you win. He's evil.
The thing is, in order for a Hero's fall from grace to work, there has to be a morality play. A play like that must have ambiguity. Unfortunately, you can't be ambiguous if one side is clearly defined as evil. Without this play, the content of Pratoria and the side switching make no sense. In other words:
If Tyrant is evil, then Going Rogue fails.
For example, Tyrant having potential threats wiped out is evil, but that doesn't mean he has to enjoy it - to him, the bigger picture is all that matters - he's saved the world, and any action is justified in keeping it safe - that doesn't mean he enjoys, it , or even thinks about it much at all.
Just because Mother Mayhem is a sadist, that doesn't mean Tyrant is too - Mother Mayhem's psychic power makes her the best person to run the Seers and asylum - she's the most effective choice, so she gets the job - because an effective psychic network is vital for the bigger picture of keeping humnaity safe - not giving her the job because of a personality "quirk" would be denying humanity the best option to help their long-term survival. -
Quote:Well, it's still a heck of a lot better than your mass murder solutionOriginally Posted by Marcian Tobay
And we've just invented internment camps. Interesting.
After all, that's the sort of thing only a tyrant would do
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Quote:If they're a potential threat to the public, then they'd need to be kept under obsevation somewhere for psychologial profiling to be carried out to try and identify the ones most likely to go bad.Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Detaining who? And if you're saying "the bad people", keep in mind that I painted a world where you don't know who's bad until they start their sprees (as is the case in the real world).
Are you suggesting we detain all supers? -
Quote:Are you suggesting it would've been better if I hadn't posted that?Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Oh, and:
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Quote:It'd be wrong to kill people just becasue they might turn out bad - so I'd suggest detaining them in a slightly more secure version of the ZigOriginally Posted by Marcian Tobay
All right, let's put out the one that's coming up in Going Rogue:
You can have a country without crime. To maintain this country, however, you need to kill everyone with super powers, as there is (in this world) a 50% chance that Supers turn evil and go on Red-side sprees that overpower your own peace-keepers. By the time you find out someone's gone Red-Side, it's usually because it's too late.
If:- Super Powered people make up .1% of the population
- Killing them means killing them all without knowing their potential for good or evil, as you can't risk it.
- Allowing them to live drastically increases the chance of hate crimes, sexual assault, robbery, arson, and other such nastiness.
Or a world full of viciously pointless crimes and everyone being given a free shake?
It's a decent translation of the "babies on a railroad track" scenario, and it's the one Cole made. Your go.
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Quote:That one's easy - for game reasons, Arachnos cells are as secure as the ZigOriginally Posted by Fury Flechette
2. Blue Steel - the Paragon answer to Chuck Norris. This deus ex machina appears whenever they have break a hero out of an Arachnos holding cell, which seems to happen with incredible frequency.
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I have lots of depth - but asking questions about saving babies lying on railroad tracks doesn't strike me as a plausible situation anyone would ever find themselve in
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Quote:It's still implausibleOriginally Posted by Smurch
It's actually a text-book one.
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Quote:Actually, it's not gone at all - the fact that you can justify Tyrant's rule for the greater good of the world surely means it's not black and white?Originally Posted by Mylia
To answer 1 is a no. To have absolute peace you need absolute control of everything which does mean strict laws and enforcement.
2. We do not know the strength of Hamidon. Although if we know is close to what Praetoria knows they will be in constant and utter paranoia if Cole was taken out.
3. No, Cole system is calculated and evolved to a point where law enforcement it not a pain staking task to have on a large populace with the fear of annihilation is near.
4. In that world, no. This is a common thing called human behavior. You take them from one extreme (absolute control) to the other (anarchy) which would send the world into a mass area of chaos and destruction. While the resistance would try and do damage control it has already done it's toll on them cause no one will trust them if they trust Cole. Dissension would rule and only time would tell if DE or human kill off the human race.
*EDIT*
All of this is my own opinion since it seems that the moral gray component of the GR seems to be gone.
To use Recluse again as an example, the world would be better off if he wasn't in power - but can the same be said about Tyrant? -
Quote:Actually, as far as I know, the devs haven't said a word about what would happen if Tyrant and his government was removed - so maybe the risk is up to the players to think about?Originally Posted by Smurch
But we already know the answer to that according to the devs, right? We know that the answer is yes. Because if it's not, Cole cannot be a villain. For Cole to be a villain he has to be morally and ethically in the wrong. That means it's black and white.
As an example, imagine the Rikti managed to wipe out Paragon City, leaving the Rogue Isles as the only organized superpowered resistance to them - does that make Recluse any less evil, because he and his criminal organization are now possibly the best hope left to the world to defeat the Rikti?
Should any survivors from Paragon City join with him, or continue to fight him?
I'm not here to answer moral dilemmas - especially if they're implausible onesQuote:And you're still avoiding the question I posed to you. Which choice would you pick? Do nothing and allow 10 children to die or take action to sacrifice one for 10 to survive?
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Quote:There's a chance that it could happen - but maybe not.Originally Posted by Smurch
So are you saying that supporting the resistance means that humanity WILL be wiped out?
Because unless that's true, it's not a moral dilemma. In fact, even if it IS true, it's not a dilemma. Obviously anything that leads to all of humanity being wiped out is simply morally unacceptable as a choice. If our choices are extinction and dictatorship, then dictatorship is the only choice you can make. That's a Hobson's Choice.
To try and know for sure, there are a lot of things to consider - like would the Resistance be able to organize humanity the way Tyrant has organized it?
Would they be able to find a way to contain the Hamidon without Tyrant to help?
Would they be able to suppress crime at the same time as fighting the Devouring Earth, the way Tyrant's system has managed to do?
Is their gamble of a more dangerous today for a freer tomorrow justified or not? -
Quote:You mean like choosing between humanity being wiped out, or humanity being under a dictatorship?Originally Posted by Smurch
That's not how a moral dilemma works. A moral dilemma works by presenting you with a choice where neither side is completely desirable, but it forces you to make a decision.
For example, lets pretend you're standing by a railroad switch between two train tracks.
On the left track, there is a newborn baby laying in the tracks.
On the right hand track, there are ten newborn babies laying in the tracks, and there is a freight train bearing down on them.
You do not have time to run out and save them. Your only options are:
1.) Do nothing, and ten babies get hit by a train
2.) Pull the rail switch and change the train over to the left hand track so only 1 baby dies.
What do you do? Do you sacrifice the one to save the others or not? How do you justify your decision?
That's a moral dilemma. -
Quote:But you can - the only thing standing between humanity and its final defeat by the Devouring Earth are those heroes brave enough to do what has to be done to protect humanity - but human stupidity, as shown by those who demand freedom when that freedom would spell the end of the human race, needs to be guarded against - by those who know that freedom is a curse - a gateway to anarchy and destruction.Originally Posted by Mylia
Me I would go more on the route of the Comedian...help save the world from its own self.
If humanity was free, then there would be no peace - and in the end, no humanity.
To uphold the hard won peace the Emperor has brought to the world, you, as a true hero who understands the need for humanity to be protected from itself, must do what must be done - for the greater good of those who live today, and the generations to come. -
Quote:I wasn't being totally seriousOriginally Posted by Smurch
Mender Silos is either lying about who he is but sincerely is trying to undo his own mistakes and save the world OR he's lying about who he is and it's all just a big you-know-who plot. Either way, there's not likely to be much real gray area there.
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Quote:But there's still huge scope for morally challenging decision making inside the framework of Tyrant = evil, Resistance = good.Originally Posted by Mylia
Sums it up quite nicely if they do go through with this. The truly would of dropped the ball, and would probably have a few people angry; including me.
If you use cold logic instead of compassion, then a lot of the loyalist mission will become quite justifiable for sure. -
Quote:Only if you're one of those people who wish the Death Star plans had never been stolen, or that Princess Leia had said where the Rebel base wasOriginally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
You're right. All of the evidence is pointing to Going Rogue being a complete waste of time.
Tyrant is creepier - he started off with good intentions - and he might still almost half believe he's still doing the right thing - but Recluse has always been one of the world's leading importers of moustache wax.Quote:May as well give Recluse the starring role rather than re-image Tyrant.
Even if Mender Silos turns out to be not so morally gray?Quote:And with the time and resources saved, maybe we could get a conclusion on the Coming Storm story line.
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Ok, here's a quick recap:
- The Resistance tagline is "those who can see past the facade".
- Joining the Resistance is the career path that leads you to becoming a Hero.
- Joining the Praetorian Police is the career path that leads you to becoming a Villain.
- 90% of superpowered people "disappear" in Praetoria - and if their families ask questions, they "disappear" too.
- Chimera is head of the secret police, and is responsible for signing the paperwork that makes them "disappear".
- The other 10% are those who "survive the indoctrination program" to join the Powers Division.
- John Hegner, the main writer for Praetoria, has said the missions ask how much you're willing to do for "security" - starting off small, but then snowballing until you should start to feel uncomfortable with what you're being asked to do.
- He's also described Tyrant's government as a "totalitarian regime".
- And refered to Mother Mayhem's Seers as "her thought police watching every street corner".
- Hero 1, (Joe Morrissey), the lead writer, has said "Emperor Cole is an actual tyrant, and he's doing things to humanity and the freedoms that we're losing because of this".
- He also said "the real threat is not the Resistance, it's the Praetorian Police Department, and Clockwork and the Seers and the Praetorian Guard".
- Although the Powers Divison "probably murder more people than those four combined", according to John Hegner.
- Some inspiration for Praetoria came from the novels "1984" and "Brave New World".
- The Resistance tagline is "those who can see past the facade".
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Quote:No, the 1-20 content is to take you from the utopia to the nightmare - if Tyrant is seen ordering his minions to increase production of moustache wax in the tutorial, then there's no "learning curve" to the story - it'd be too similar to CoV.Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
This would be the "I give up" point in the conversation...
No one's arguing that he's the ANTAGONIST of the story. We're arguing whether it's clear cut "I'm going to punch babies, lololololololololololololllllll!"
... Which is how it feels like you want it to be sold.
Like I said earlier, the Syndicate are the perfect game mechanic to draw loyalist players into the lies of Tyrant's state - you'll get used to dealing with criminals and "protecting" the people of Praetoria, but you'll also be exposed in stages to the truth about Tyrant via missions and interaction with the Resistance, until you reach the point where you discover that, for no logical reason, Tyrant had his tower constructed with air ducts that were wide enough for people to crawl through.