Golden Girl
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Trials, even rigged ones, seem kinda infrequnet in Praetoria - summary execution seems to be the main way of dealing with "enemies of the state".Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Oh, I definitely agree with this, one hundred and twenty percent!
However that's not what Golden Cole and others fling up. They are trying to convince people, through an appeal to emotion, that -all- or at least -most- the people who were killed were innocent of any crime. It's entirely possible, even likely, that -some- of the people executed were innocent.... But with a Psychic police force (which is already a factor in the equation) the likelihood of that happening is reduced, maybe not as much as it would be with psychics -and- a fair and public trial... But reduced.
I'm not really seeing how Wardog's family being executed for him teaching his students about the real history of Praetoria could count as terrorists - although that does seem to be a term the fascists use for anyone who opposes their horrific dictatorship.Quote:It's far more likely that anyone executed by the government either had ties to terrorists/criminals/whatever or -was- a terrorist/criminal/whatever than the idea that people are rounded up at random to be slaughtered for no reason other than to kill them. -
Quote:One of the Underground exploration badges:Originally Posted by Steampunkette
I think, Golden Cole, the "Mass Murder" is part of the Executions... it's just a different term applied to it by people trying to drum up sympathy. or can you point me to in game text involving PPD or Loyalists involved in killing sprees?
Dissappeared:
"This is where enemies of the State vanish forever. These lost souls have been brought here from the PPD Headquarters for summary execution without review or recourse."
Well, first, torture is totally unaceptable under any circumstances - and second, these two badges some info on the PPD thugs:Quote:And the Torture is no different than Torture in any other government. What -exact- methods were used..? Do you know? Then how do you know it was actual torture rather than good old fashioned police brutality to find out where other Terrorists/Murderers/Syndicate were?
Silent Witness:
"You have seen much injustice and brutality in your journeys through Praetoria, and here beneath Precinct 4 in Imperial City you are witness to a chamber dedicated to both. Will you remain silent forever?"
Nailbiter:
"This PPD interrogation and holding area is littered with the signs of harsh treatment. Dried bodily fluids, ripped off fingernails, and a few human teeth mark this area as a place you don't want to wind up in."
Plus, there's text in the BAF where the guards are discussing how the place looks kinda boring, but all the "fun" happens downstairs. -
Quote:No, it's still there - the fascists just wish it was deadOriginally Posted by BlackArachnia
America in the universe is dead
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Quote:Well, being an crazed power-mad dictator is a reason, and I'm sure it seems a good one to him and his thugs tooOriginally Posted by Steampunkette
Plenty of reasons to explain why he hasn't given up power, yet. And good ones, too!
And the brainwashing, torture and mass-murder that goes with them?Quote:I -think- it could excuse the executions and imprisonments, though.
"Treason" in Praetoria is anything that goes against Tyrant and his stormtroopers - and, like Robert flores says, "here in Praetoria, you're almost invincible if you claim your actions are to hunt down traitors" - which is why it's so easy to trick Marauder into thinking Washington was a traitor - because the loyalists are so obsessed with "traitors" they'll believe any accusationsQuote:Seeing as how those people were likely as not seditious or treasonous, and we've no word on their crimes except in a handful of cases where the person telling the tale has plenty of reason to lie.
Like Wardog's family?Quote:Occam's Razor dictates that Cole orders the execution of those who are threats to Praetoria, not random people.
Protecting the dictatorship is Tyrant's first concern - and everything he does is designed to do just thatQuote:And the ghouls were an attempt to create super-soldiers which were meant to protect the people.
Of course not - he's a loyalistQuote:Not a terribly ethical situation, but do we -really- expect Neuron to be ethical?
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Quote:Only if you keep up with that negative attitudeOriginally Posted by RemusShepherd
I've been patched together well enough to function, but I'll never be right.
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I'd vote for TMIMIP too - although I'd also vote for a video of HeroStats being read out by someone, just as long as that someone was Leandro
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Quote:The stiff-armers can't crush the spirit of a nation thaty easilyOriginally Posted by Steampunkette
By the same token, a person born in Praetoria isn't an American, but is a Praetorian.
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Quote:The other world leaders mentioned in-game might disagree with youOriginally Posted by CactusBrawler
There isn't any other nations out there. Just Preatoria, just the people that were saved in the Hamidon war.
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Quote:Since when has being wrong ever stopped a stormtrooper?Originally Posted by Venture
I'm only going to deal with a few things here as I don't have time to address the seventy posts of stupid this thread attracted in the last eight hours. (The short answer is that the easy way to tell if Steampunkette is wrong is to see if her (virtual) lips are moving.)
But that's the way the Minsitry iof Truth should work - for the rgeater good, of course - some things are just too dangerous for too many people to know aboutQuote:Yes, the State did create the Ghouls. Please read the entire article and not just the parts you like
But all for the greater good, I'm sureQuote:What's more, Vasiliskos was working as part of a State program to create super-soldiers. He wasn't some crackpot mixing drugs in his basement. Everything he did is a result of the State's intent.
Quote:Some Doublethink - an important part of a loyalist's day to day existenceQuote:of the Ghouls created afterwards might be clones, but not all of them. You work with a guy who was turned into a Ghoul (Carlos Gomez) in that arc! Come on!
Human rights don't figure too higly on the priority list of a fascist dictatorshipQuote:And even suggesting that clones aren't deserving of human rights is despicable.
There might also be a non-drugged supply for the stormtroopers - although Tyrnat might also think it'd be for the best if his thugs were also quite docile and accpeting, so they could carry out their crimes against humanity more efficiently.Quote:Dark Watcher tells you that Enriche is spiked in the final Warden morality mission. The "Don't Drink It" and "Drink Enriche!" badges imply that the same drug is in the rest of the water, but that doesn't make much sense.
Those types aren't as dangerous as they were in the past - they only get one shot at taking over before the wrold learns just how evil they are, and that's been and gone - the loyalist content just acts as a substitue for being born in the wrong time and the wrong countryQuote:What gets me about these threads is that a lot of people seem to be ready to throw their freedom away for a Twinkie. If the pro-fascist attitudes evinced by people like Eiko-Chan, Steampunkette and BenRGamer are at all prevalent among young people today we're in deep trouble.
It goes without saying that Tyrant and his thugs are cowards - fear is the path to the dark sideQuote:See, this is indicative of the kind of statements that set me off. Humans aren't violent little monkeys that need zookeepers. Humans are constructive, not destructive, and the proof of that is the world all around you. If humans were destructive as a species we'd still be living in caves throwing poo at each other. (Of course, some might argue that we just use the Internet for that now. They might use this thread as an example.) We build far, far, far more than we destroy. We live in a world of wonders our distant forefathers could scarcely comprehend, and we live in it because no matter how many times we may have stumbled along the way we have always taken what came before us and built on it, improving it. We are the most fantastic creatures on this planet. People like Tyrant who can't see that are just cowards, afraid of other people and what they might do if not completely under his control.
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Quote:So no change from inside the fence thenOriginally Posted by Steampunkette
Probably pretty Brutal.
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Quote:Desperately shrieking the praises of Tyrant's thousand year reich doesn't make the existence of Praetorian American any less real, no matter how much the stormtroopers might wish it was goneOriginally Posted by Steampunkette
I will continue re-quoting that piece of text every time you say "But Amurrica!" or some variation of the same.
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Quote:It seems strange that they have a network to smuggle people out of the city then if they're just going to get eatenOriginally Posted by BenRGamer
The moments the Wardens leave they'd be Hamidon-Snacks.
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Quote:No, that's just Tyrant's name for his Fourth Reich - the country is still America, and the people are still Americans - and they'll be getting help from their Primal Earth sisters and brothers to reclaim their country from the fascists.Originally Posted by Steampunkette
The land USED to be America in much the same way most of Europe and Asia and even parts of Africa were once part of Rome or Germany. Now it is Praetoria.
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Quote:If he was a genuine American, he wouldn't be doing the things he doingOriginally Posted by CapnGeist
Cole's an American! Stop telling Cole to get out of America! AMERICA! You don't have the right to tell Cole to go away! This is his home!
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Quote:Tyrant and his thugs would still have to be removed though, to liberate the drugged slaves left behind, and because he and his stormtroopers would still be poluting American soil with their presence, so they'd have to be gotten rid of, so the whole country would be free again.Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Oh, Definitely! I'd love that!
I'd especially love it if, with the removal of the Resistance, most of the evil stuff going on in Praetoria just -stopped- dead in it's tracks. Except the fighting/arrest/murder of the Syndicate criminals, of course.
No more Seers, no more Mother Mayhem, no more invasion of Primal Earth. All the evil just -stopped-.
Why? because the main and driving force of the oppressive attacks was removed when the Resistance went off to found their own nation in a different part of what was once "Amurrica!" -
Quote:The Wardens are Americans too - they have no reason to leave America - they'll stay and fight the fascists until they get their liberty back.Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
So... anyway though, who thinks the idea of the Wardens breaking off to form Paragon making things come full circle would be kickass?
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Quote:Some countries in real life have voted for insane dictators in the pastOriginally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
It was an insane god Emperor that the PEOPLE did vote in. Though whether this really is the case or not is another matter. Sure it could be a lie, but this is Shades of Grey. Sometimes when people are alone in the dark, they don't make the right choices because they think it is the right choice.
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Quote:Maybe not to a stormtrooper, noOriginally Posted by Steampunkette
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Quote:No - American's shouldn't have to leave their own country just because an insane god-emperor is crushing them under his dictatorship - they should do exactly what they're doing - take up arms and fight to win back their liberty and depose the monster and his jackbooted thugs.Originally Posted by Steampunkette
So yeah. It's Praetoria. Pack up and Get out if you don't like it.
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Quote:No it isn't - it's still America - the people are still Americans, with the same basic American values of freedom - that's why there's such a big Resistance movement.Originally Posted by BenRGamer
America fell, collapsed under the Hamidon attack. Praetoria rose from the ashes, it's not America anymore, it's not a Republic. It's a new country.
Tyrant can call it Praetoria, Disneyland, the Fourth Reich - whatever he likes - it's still America, and he's crushing the American people under his fascist dictatorship. -
Quote:Why not? They've already done it with Tyrant's plans to invade and enslave Primal ErathOriginally Posted by Steampunkette
But somehow i doubt the Devs would write the Praetorians as invading the Resistance held city of Paragon without a reason
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Quote:Just because Tyrant and his goose-stepping stormtropopers have declared a New Order, that doesn't mean the people have to accept it - apart from the ones Tyrant is drugging to be docile, of course - they'll accpet anything he saysOriginally Posted by Steampunkette
Praetoria is a new nation. It isn't a Republic, as America was in the Praetorian World. America is no more.
Yes, they do - it's their country that's become a nightmare fascist dictatorship that's taken away their freedom, so it's their right - and their duty - to take up arms and liberate themselves and the drugged slaves of the dictatorship.Quote:there is an Emperor and Dictator in charge. he and his people built the city. The Resistance has no right to take it.
The hobo is there for a reasonQuote:If Praetoria was America we wouldn't be having this discussion, at all.
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Quote:Even the most crushingly dumb loyalist stromtrooper will realize after 10 seconds of talking to Mother Mayhem that there's something very, very wrong with herOriginally Posted by CapnGeist
the only evidence that Mother is really the monster she's said to be is... What people say.
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Quote:Home is where the heart is - and normal people will always fight for thier home and their freedom, even if the odds are against them - it's the heroic thing to doOriginally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Trying to "take back" Praetoria when it's ruled by an invincible God Emperor is like trying stay on an island with an erupting volcano with the lava slide in the path of your home "just because you lived there all your life!"
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Quote:Yes, it is - there's a reason for the old hobo to be found in the undergroundOriginally Posted by Steampunkette
Praetoria is not America.