Golden Girl
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:When I say souls, I'm not talking about religion.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
No, we don't. "Souls" are just a cushy lie we tell ourselves to distract our brains from the the very clear and very real notion that one day, we'll die, and it's all over. We like to think that our "souls" will go off to a better place, but they won't. We cease to exist, and that frightens people.
No they haven't, and no they can't - the way people experience life can't be recreated or forced.Quote:Humans are nothing more than very complex machines made out of meat. Both history and medicine have demonstrated that emotions, love, dreams and personality can be controlled by purely physical means.
The reason that a dumb idea like that can be dismissed so easily is because it's so dumb.Quote:If it makes people feel better about themselves by believing they are somehow more "special" than that pile of rocks over there, then I'm not about to stop them, but don't try to dismiss other people's ideas just because you need to believe that humans aren't precisely as soulless as a computer.
Show me the limits thenQuote:Our imaginations are not unlimited. 
Actually, it does - that's why we're here.Quote:Romantic ideas like souls, imagination, love, good and evil and all of that are perfectly fine for fictional stories. Prudent, in fact, as they make for some very engaging themes. But they cannot and should not be applied to the real world because the real world doesn't work that way. -
Quote:Then feel free to list all of them thenOriginally Posted by Arilou
Human responses are not infinite.
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I'd love to have this for the MA power set - it'd be a great way of working out while playing
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Quote:But they're only shallow responses, not the genuine deep emotions that we get in our normal lives.Originally Posted by Arilou
That's wrong. Emotions can be manipulated, and to some degree created, by chemical means. That's how drugs work. (both recreational and medecinal)
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Quote:Well, as our imaginations are unlimited, it's kinda hard for me to list something that's infinite - so it'd probably be better for you to list the pre-selected responses you think we haveOriginally Posted by Arilou
Prove to me that humans can do anything other than respond toa pre-selected set of responses.
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Quote:This discussion is the proof - among many other thingsOriginally Posted by Scythus
Prove a soul exists.
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Quote:Emotions are something deeper than just stimulation - they're part of our consciousness, which makes us who we are.Originally Posted by RadDidIt
Emotions are NOTHING but bio-electric signals and hormone dumps used to respond to different stimuli.
Our life spirit isn't - our souls are something deeper.Quote:There is no such thing as "just" an emotion free from it (it being the above statement). EVERY emotion has direct effect on the body as a whole; everything in your body is, technically, knowable. -
Quote:A machine doesn't have a soul - we do.Originally Posted by Scythus
All of things you discuss are purely dominated by the interaction of chemicals within our brains. Without that chemical interaction, you wouldn't be able to experience them. Every chemical interaction you have in your brain is influenced by external stimuli that creates the electrical signals that release the mixture of those chemicals.
You are a machine made from meat. -
Quote:No you didn't - you said the brain can be made to feel happy or sad - that's not the same as normal emotions that come from normal things.Originally Posted by Scythus
I already covered emotions.
The memory of a computer is nothing like the memory of a person - it has no emotional connections with the memories, and computers lack any imagination or creativity - they're just tools we created to help us - they'll never be anything more than that.Quote:Computers also possess memory, so you're screwed there. Hell, they can remember things better than we can. And the latter are influenced through external interactions much like memory is. Many dreams are influenced by the memories of things we've experienced, be it a stroll through a park or a movie we watched and they function much like how a screensaver does. -
Quote:That still has nothing to do with emotions, thoughts, memories or dreams.Originally Posted by Scythus
Oh really? So you are completely ignorant of biology? Unaware of the electrical stimuli sent from the brain to tell particular chemical impulses within a muscle to stretch or contract? Unaware that chemical interaction in the brain is responsible for most emotional states? Scientists can easily make you happy or sad by connecting you to a machine that creates electrical stimulation of the appropriate areas of the brain.
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Quote:Not quite, noOriginally Posted by Scythus
Humans are simply electro-chemical machines.
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Quote:Not really, no - flight is a simple physical thing - it can be defined by physics, and is based on solid principles that can be broken down and studied, and then created and recreated.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
When you get down to the base, basest level...what is that other than a calculated response based on a range of available options?
I'm not saying we will 100% see sci-fi level AI anytime soon, or even ever. But just ruling it out as 'Its never going to happen'? Thats just...well, daft. What we think is impossible now might become reality in 200 years.
After all, if you'd said 200 years ago that you'd be able to fly anywhere in the world within a few hours, you'd have been locked up in an Asylum. Because, back then, flight was like us talking about sentient AIs.
Emotions are the opposite - they can't be defined or rationalized or broken down to be studied, or be created or recreated.
If someone wanted to know how flight works, they could read about it and understand it - but something like love can't be defined or understood - it can't be made to happen and it can't be made to stop, and it can't be copied - it's just something that's inside all of us, and it's one of the things that makes us human - and it's something that a computer can never feel. -
Quote:Well, think of all the emotions and thoughts and dreams and things you say and do when you're in a realtionship,a dn how they're all conntected with limitless possibilities for cross-referencing - and then tell me how you'd program thoseOriginally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Really?
Prove it.
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Quote:They're a little more complex than thatOriginally Posted by LISAR
The same place human emotions come from. Emotions are just a response to stimuli.
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Quote:So where would it's emotions come from?Originally Posted by RadDidIt
.......any sufficiently advanced AI would be indistinguishable from biological intelligence.
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Quote:Why? Because I said the crushingly stupid teenage boy fantasy of a "real" robot is something that'll never happen?Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Y'know something, GG? Your scary. In a very, very unsettling way.
Why? For knowing that the most sophisticated robot would never be anywhere near the level of mental development of the most knuckle-scraping AE farming man-child on Freedom server?Quote:If you ever came to any position of power...say, President? I'd be the first to see you unelected...or forcibly removed. Because people like you should never be in positions like that. Honestly. -
Quote:No it wouldn't - everything it said or did would be second-hand - it's be limited by what we programmed it to do.Originally Posted by RadDidIt
Any sufficiently advanced AI would be indistinguishable from biological intelligence.
Humans have unlimited imagination, creativity and thouhgts - a robot would never get anywhere near our abilities - it'd just be a puppet. -
Welcome back
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Quote:I think robots are cute and funny - but people shouldn't really expect them to be like real humansOriginally Posted by Scythus
Robophobe.
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An oil leak doesn't count
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Quote:Robots can't cryOriginally Posted by Scythus
People like you make the Vision cry.
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I see plenty of "!" but no "?" - is this a question?
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Quote:Humans could evolve wings in the future.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Completly ignoring the 'possibilities of the future' part of the arguement, I see. It doesn't surprise me.
That's not a valid argumentQuote:Put it this way; You prove that its utterly, 100% impossible for that to EVER happen...and I'll believe you.
The fact we're discussing this is proof.Quote:Oh, and you still haven't pointed out what a Soul is. And how you prove it exists. And if humans even have one. Because their the biggest, amoral bunch of *******'s I've ever seen, personally... I'd say animals are more moral.
A "sentient" robot is just the sci-fi version of an elf or a dwarf or a dragon - a made-up creature for story purposes only. -
Feel free to show me a robot that can do anything other than respond from a pre-selected set of responses
Machines can never have an imagination - they're too limited - the best they can ever do is respond to things based on the stuff we've programmed into them - they can never have emotions. -
Quote:Humans are special - they're higher than animals, just like animals are higher than any kind of robot.Originally Posted by Arilou
Humans don't have a soul either, so what's your point?
A robot is nothing more than a computer.